Is it hard being a Cartographer?

[e_i_pi]

Hi all,

I've just started making 2 maps, and have eyes on a 3rd. One of them I'm not entirely chuffed about, but the other I have a good feeling about. Seems like when I post a map though, even if it's just in drafts, there's an awful lot of negative criticism. I understand criticism being part of the process, but some of the feedback is kind of... pointless. Stuff along the lines of "I don't like it" or "That's no good, try again". Worse still is when people start arguing semantics. Is this normal for these forums?

I mean, I'm just trying to contribute to the community. I'm not under the impression that I'm some 1337 cartographer or anything, but I'm putting my skills to use that will hopefully be positive to the site.

I don't want my map threads to turn into flame wars, so I'm trying not to respond to these comments, but it's kind of disheartening when someone comes along, stamps their 2c on the thread, and leaves without a second thought. Anyone else get this?

[l3eater]

You will receive some negative comments about your map, but some idiotic comments such as what you posted, 'i dont like it' so just be looked over, it's your map, you can chose to continue with it, not them. Also, the 'It's not good. Try again' might just mean that the poster did not like the color scheme, or the way a certain territory is. Just remember, it's your map, you decide not them.

[MrBenn]

My advice would be to stick with a single idea to get a feel for how the whole process works, and to show that you have commitment to seeing it through.

I have been working on the Europa map for 8 months now and have only recently started working on a couple of other projects - mainly since the forums appear to have slowed down over the summer.

[whitestazn88]

i know i am one of those guys who tends to put down a lot of negative feedback at first, but thats because i'd like to show people that its not just something you decide to do.

if you wanna make a map it has to meet some standard of quality, so it's very important that it does look good, and that gameplay is thought out and then put up for discussion for a little bit

you have the final say, but if no one else likes it, its not gonna happen

[TaCktiX]

Welcome to the thing about being a first-timer. You will get a harder eye placed on you than people who have a quenched map already, mostly because you haven't proven commitment yet. Making a map is not a 2-weeks-and-you're-done speedfest, it's a slow process that will take at least 3 months of your continued interest (and longer still if you get derailed by that accursed thing known as real life for whatever reason). You will get the "I don't like it"'s, the "this is crap"'s, and a general lack of detail. There are two maps presently in the Final Forge (one of them mine) which got these feedback early on in the game:

The Citadel, Page 4

This map looks like someone pulled a beta version of CCU out of the garbage and proceeded to regurgitate botched photoshop tutorials all over it. Not only is this map an insult to the sighted community but the game play has been done before and done better, which completely removes any real reason for this map to exist, except for those among us who are military fetishists with low standards and I wouldn't even want those commendable souls to be condemned to a gaming experience so 3rd, 4th, and 5th rate as this reiterated graphical compost heap of bad taste.

My advice, take this map back to the drawing board, take the drawing board back to Ikea, and exchange it for one of those nifty couches so at least one of us will rest easy knowing something this reckless will never get into live play.

Archipelago, Page 2

as much as i like fantasy maps i don't find this one attractive at all. i mean making up a bogus archipelago just for the sake of it is wrong. if you want to create a special gameplay yes you can come up with fantasy realms to suit your needs but if it's classic gameplay then why not do a real place? you will have a lot more success by doing the hawaii islands or by making the malay archipelago because people relate better to a real place than to a fantasy theme. and frankly unless the fantasy theme comes from something very popular (middle earth, discworld) or the gameplay is something new and exciting (aom, feudal, aor) then people won't play it.

And these first-time mapmaker's maps are very soon to be quenched. It takes a little more perseverance than you'd think at first glance, but it'll be totally worth it when you can say "hey, let's play my map on CC!"

[ZeakCytho]

You just have to ignore the negative comments that don't have any sort of explanation or helpful material. The only way to improve your map is to follow people's suggestions, which is impossible when people aren't suggesting anything but rather telling you the idea is bad without any sort of "but you can do this to make it better" or "what if you did this instead." Take a look at the first few pages of the map thread Mjinga and I have been working on, Archipelago )Clicky). We got a bunch of feedback that didn't say anything for the first few pages, but then things picked up and now we're in the Final Forge.

So basically, even if the comments are negative, keep your chin up and keep going. If the graphics and gameplay are solid, you'll get there eventually.

Edit: Tac got in before me. Read what he wrote twice, or maybe even three times. Wise words.

[bryguy]

It can be easy at times, hard at others. You have to be ready to receive any amount of comments, ranging from the simple 'I love it!' to 'This map is horrible, abandon it'. There are some people who will comment like the second but in a more creative way, but you just have to be ready to take it. Sometimes it can be hard and you can lose your temper, but most of the time its fun to do and it gets your skills built.

[Androidz]

If you trully have a burning desire for a map you could do anything. But the problem most new cartographers have is they only see the negative feedback. When there ALOT of postive comments on almost any map idea (if its something new) and cause the negative replies people abondens their map.

But when you have this desire you could do anything, keep working on the graphics and gameplay until it suits most people and one day maybe your map idea's see FF.


As me which suck incredible on even drafts made in paint , have burning desire for my map ideas and im compfident that one time i'll me and graphicster which will lead my map to FF:D Even if its take mounts, i'll be here until its done:) Sooner or later people gonna get emety on idea's right?;)

[rsacheli]

as a "first-timer" on building a CC map myself, I too have gotten my fairshare of this map sucks comments... But ask why it sucks and you will get feedback that is helpful...
I used to be on the novalogic map makers for delta force a few years back where I would not only create the terrains but add the biuldings and other objects... When I first started there it was hard not to just give up beccause if there was one thing someone didn't like they would explot it and really run you into the ground... After I finished my 3rd and 4th ones they lightened up some because I had be thuroughly initiated and showed my ability... No matter where you go you will have to prove yourself! Just don't get discouraged when it seems evryone is out to get you

[bryguy]

As me which suck incredible on even drafts made in paint , have burning desire for my map ideas and im compfident that one time i'll me and graphicster which will lead my map to FF:D Even if its take mounts, i'll be here until its done:) Sooner or later people gonna get emety on idea's right?;)

seems to me ill have to send you a long pm (probably 100,000,000,000,000,000 pages worth of a regular book ) on how to draw stuff in GIMP


or you could just tell me what your trying to do and i could tell you how to do it

[Androidz]

As me which suck incredible on even drafts made in paint , have burning desire for my map ideas and im compfident that one time i'll me and graphicster which will lead my map to FF:D Even if its take mounts, i'll be here until its done:) Sooner or later people gonna get emety on idea's right?;)

seems to me ill have to send you a long pm (probably 100,000,000,000,000,000 pages worth of a regular book ) on how to draw stuff in GIMP


or you could just tell me what your trying to do and i could tell you how to do it

Seriously i treid gimp. And i found out how to change colours and such but the other thingies i could press didint give any sense-.-

Could you make this book? Call it GImp for Dumbies? Like Google For Dumbies thats a great book i stumbpled over. its over 400 pages:O

[bryguy]

As me which suck incredible on even drafts made in paint , have burning desire for my map ideas and im compfident that one time i'll me and graphicster which will lead my map to FF:D Even if its take mounts, i'll be here until its done:) Sooner or later people gonna get emety on idea's right?;)

seems to me ill have to send you a long pm (probably 100,000,000,000,000,000 pages worth of a regular book ) on how to draw stuff in GIMP


or you could just tell me what your trying to do and i could tell you how to do it

Seriously i treid gimp. And i found out how to change colours and such but the other thingies i could press didint give any sense-.-

Could you make this book? Call it GImp for Dumbies? Like Google For Dumbies thats a great book i stumbpled over. its over 400 pages:O

lol i could probably type up one in word or something and call it that, and put in all that I know

course, by the end I would probably have forgotten all that I know....

[foregone]

I've been lucky in that so far all the criticisms which I've received have been helpful and specified areas of improvement but I don't imagine that you can do all that much if somebody leaves a plain "You suck, go home" comment. Might as well ignore it and focus on the helpful comments. Not every idea, gameplay, etc is gonna be to everybody's liking, but that really doesn't mean it won't be to others.

Welcome to the thing about being a first-timer. You will get a harder eye placed on you than people who have a quenched map already, mostly because you haven't proven commitment yet. Making a map is not a 2-weeks-and-you're-done speedfest, it's a slow process that will take at least 3 months of your continued interest (and longer still if you get derailed by that accursed thing known as real life for whatever reason). You will get the "I don't like it"'s, the "this is crap"'s, and a general lack of detail. There are two maps presently in the Final Forge (one of them mine) which got these feedback early on in the game:

The Citadel, Page 4

This map looks like someone pulled a beta version of CCU out of the garbage and proceeded to regurgitate botched photoshop tutorials all over it. Not only is this map an insult to the sighted community but the game play has been done before and done better, which completely removes any real reason for this map to exist, except for those among us who are military fetishists with low standards and I wouldn't even want those commendable souls to be condemned to a gaming experience so 3rd, 4th, and 5th rate as this reiterated graphical compost heap of bad taste.

My advice, take this map back to the drawing board, take the drawing board back to Ikea, and exchange it for one of those nifty couches so at least one of us will rest easy knowing something this reckless will never get into live play.

Just had to say....ouch!

i know i am one of those guys who tends to put down a lot of negative feedback at first, but thats because i'd like to show people that its not just something you decide to do.

if you wanna make a map it has to meet some standard of quality, so it's very important that it does look good, and that gameplay is thought out and then put up for discussion for a little bit

you have the final say, but if no one else likes it, its not gonna happen

All the comments which I've experienced from you have at least been quite helpful in improving rather than being random soul-wrenching comments which make people want to close GIMP forever.

[Kaplowitz]

You cant ignore the negative comments that have information in them! Make changes!

[foregone]

You cant ignore the negative comments that have information in them! Make changes!

Not sure if that was aimed at me or just the OP, but just in case, it wasn't what I suggested at all. Negative comments with info are helpful. Negative comments without have no use.

[ZeakCytho]

You cant ignore the negative comments that have information in them! Make changes!

That quote doesn't quite feel Swiss enough

[whitestazn88]

but some maps are so bad that you don't wanna give them a good comment.

so for those, i just avoid them completely

but that's not sayin all the maps i haven't commented on are the maps that i dislike....

[Qwert]

Is it hard being a Cartographer?

Hard question. Can i get some easy question?

Well in begining i start with Europe 1914,and i abandoned these map(lost interest). Then i start WWII Eastern Front,and these topic whas realy Eastern Front for me. I have so many sugestion Battles that i several time abandoned map, and return. I get many negative feedback,but also get positive helpfyl feedback. Sometime negative feedback can be helpfyl.
Feedback who dont have any sugestion,just ignore.
Now aim back to mine first map project and starting again,maybe now i will finish.

[Kaplowitz]

You cant ignore the negative comments that have information in them! Make changes!

That quote doesn't quite feel Swiss enough

I
Lemme edit it...

is this better?

You cant ignore the negative comments that have information in them! Make changes!

and i said that because i saw somewhere that someone said "ignore negative comments."

[ZeakCytho]

You cant ignore the negative comments that have information in them! Make changes!

and i said that because i saw somewhere that someone said "ignore negative comments."

It's too dark now!

But yeah, back on topic, don't ignore negative comments. IMO, they can be the most useful, if they tell you what's wrong AND why or how to fix it.

[e_i_pi]

Thanks for the feedback everyone I'll keep all this in mind as I continue mapmaking. I especially like the comments TaCktiX and ZeakCytho made, and it's good to hear from so many cartographers, including some of the experienced ones (Qwert love your work). I'll be sure to stop in this forum for a chat every now and then, get my head out of the Photoshop etc Thanks again everyone

[Androidz]

Thanks for the feedback everyone I'll keep all this in mind as I continue mapmaking. I especially like the comments TaCktiX and ZeakCytho made, and it's good to hear from so many cartographers, including some of the experienced ones (Qwert love your work). I'll be sure to stop in this forum for a chat every now and then, get my head out of the Photoshop etc Thanks again everyone

-.- you left me out.

lol, jk.

[gimil]

Zeak! Kap! back on topic before I get the foundry whip out

[e_i_pi]

Zeak! Kap! back on topic before I get the foundry whip out

Hmm, this is a kinky side to the Foundry I never knew about