timogl & bamage [cleared]

[Maremmano]

Accused:

• timogl
• bamage

The accused are suspected of:

• Conducting Secret Diplomacy

Game number(s):

• Game 2356714

Comments:
i'm afraid it is so 'cause timogl sent me several PMs, and he was very insistent to know my strategy and to speak about other's strategy. i think he tried to know my vision of the game.
but the most important thing is that they are agree about Africa's spartition between them, without any message in the public chat! ...moreover, in the public chat we can read it clearly (2008-07-08 12:16:00 in the public chat)! look at it, and look what is happening in the last 3 turns: they are not defending each from the other. bamage let timogl get europe...and there is no defence between europe and a bamage's territory. look at the contact point turkey-greece! now timogl said to bamage that for him it is ok if bamage take the horn... (but he make a "mistake" in do it).
you can also see that they are not attacking the other's strategic territories looking the other contact points: iran-afghanistan-pakistan; irkusk-mongolia-china; ...and in africa too...and this allowed the bamage's "mistake"!!
tnx!

[alster]

Took a look at the game and the game chat. I think you're all a bunch of whiners, desperately trying to make and cling to alliances, who can't play risk for shit. But that’s just my two cents.

[Maremmano]

yes, maybe u are right...but the point is: are them onest or are them violating CC's rules?
i took mi risks to try to win, but now the game is blocked by them!

[alster]

Well. It looks to me like those two players (green and pink) are better off not attacking each other at this point. Both you (grey) and blue are dug in pretty good. Why would the two weakest players attack each other? Doesn't necessarily have to be an explicit agreement, might as well be a tacit collusion. It’s hard to tell by just looking at the map.

[Maremmano]

i agre with u: they don't need to attack eache to the other at all.
but tell me why they don't defend AT ALL each from the other their strategic limits!!! it is extremely strange...
...it could be not so strange if u think that there is something like a secret truce behind.

am i wrong?

[alster]

Dunno. Not placing armies on a border is a way to show that you have no intention to attack a player. And by doing the same the other player acknowledges this. And then you have a tacit (as opposed to an express) understanding between those players to hold back and focus on other perceived threats.

I do it now and then myself if playing standard games. It usually only works with experienced and rational players though. If there’s a newbie or a hot-headed moron on the other side of the fence, he is usually not able to grasp this but instead has an urge to attack whatever he can believing that he has accomplished damage on at least one of the other players.

With that said - there may very well be secret alliance in place in this game. But I cannot tell by just looking at the game. But if you could show a pattern in other games involving these two players, then you would have some circumstantial evidence.

[Maremmano]

oh, well...i'm afraid i can't show u what u are asking me to show.
i just have some serious doubt about theyr behaviour, and i can just show u the evidences i have right now.

do u really think that are not enough?

[Maremmano]

i just found this game in wich they played together:

GAME NUMBER 876500

...now i have to look for other games in wich timogl in active, and ask somebody if there is something strange there too.

[bamage]

i just stumbled onto this. maremmano, you are a sad, confused, strange little man.

i see you found a game that timogl and i played in together a year ago. there's your smoking gun.

alstergren, i have to say that you very elegantly stated what good players do, in terms of signalling peaceful intentions via army placement. my feelings are a little hurt at the comment that i'm a whiner, but -- in this game only -- i have to admit i let my emotions get the better of me.

maremmano, you're a moron. i will be surprised if your ranking ever goes up from its current level if you can't even grasp alstergren's comments.

i have to say that i've accused people of cheating TWICE, in TWO YEARS(and both times i was right). You are ignoring the whole game log here. Timogl has been at my throat the entire time. The words for your accusation are "lazy" and "wishful thinking."

[CandaVespin]

I've played with Bamage for... at least a year now pretty regularly. I'm pretty confidant that this accusation of cheating will turn up to prove false.

And I will use my first interaction with Bamage as an example.

In my first game with bamage he was utilizing a tactic that confused me. I knew the rules and felt that it would be OK to PM him to ask him what his tactic was, or rather, how I perceived it and how it was working for him. To better understand the mechanics of a tactic I'd never seen before. Bamage expressed to me that he felt that, while both of us were active in the game, this would be a violation of the game rules and that he would be happy to discuss the tactic with me AFTER one or both of us were eliminated. After that there was no further discussion regarding that particular game, outside of in game chat, until the game was completed.

That PM to me illustrated, to me, that Bamage respected the rules and did not want to be in violation of them but was also a "good" enough person to still be willing to share information and tactics.

I do not believe that the behavior he displayed to me would indicate that he was doing anything untoward. I have played over 100 games with Bamage and would be very surprised if he were actively cheating in any game. It could be coincidence, or it could be as described above, a tactical, non-verbal decision to improve his odds of winning.

I am certain that Moderator investigation will turn prove what I have stated above.

[bamage]

And what's this about timogl sending you PMs about our game? Please post those, along with your responses. Post them here where the moderator can see them.

[bamage]

In case maremmano tries to change it, i've quoted it here. I REPEAT, maremmano, post timogl's PMs to you AND YOUR RESPONSES.

FYI, at no time have timogl and i communicated outsided of the game chat, through any means.

Accused:

• timogl
• bamage

The accused are suspected of:

• Conducting Secret Diplomacy

Game number(s):

• Game 2356714

Comments:
i'm afraid it is so 'cause timogl sent me several PMs, and he was very insistent to know my strategy and to speak about other's strategy. i think he tried to know my vision of the game.
but the most important thing is that they are agree about Africa's spartition between them, without any message in the public chat! ...moreover, in the public chat we can read it clearly (2008-07-08 12:16:00 in the public chat)! look at it, and look what is happening in the last 3 turns: they are not defending each from the other. bamage let timogl get europe...and there is no defence between europe and a bamage's territory. look at the contact point turkey-greece! now timogl said to bamage that for him it is ok if bamage take the horn... (but he make a "mistake" in do it).
you can also see that they are not attacking the other's strategic territories looking the other contact points: iran-afghanistan-pakistan; irkusk-mongolia-china; ...and in africa too...and this allowed the bamage's "mistake"!!
tnx!

[alster]

maremmano, you're a moron.

Ok guys. Maremmano has played a total of 37 games since he joined. No need to be too harsh on him. We all get accused of cheating sooner or later. Personally, I'm waiting to see what comes out of my comments in Game 2783936...

[bamage]

True, but rule #2 is pretty straight-forward. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask him to post his timogl-related PMs to the game chat.

[bamage]

maremmano, you're a moron.

Ok guys. Maremmano has played a total of 37 games since he joined. No need to be too harsh on him. We all get accused of cheating sooner or later. Personally, I'm waiting to see what comes out of my comments in Game 2783936...

Wow... just checked it out. alstergren, I have to wonder why you'd even join that game in the first place. On the face of it, it stinks to high heaven.

[alster]

Wow... just checked it out. alstergren, I have to wonder why you'd even join that game in the first place. On the face of it, it stinks to high heaven.

LOL... I wanted to make a point. Like another well-known player, King_Herpes seems to have made a habit out of putting up obscure 8-player terminator games fishing for deadbeating newbies. Figured I could make the game a little more interesting for him. Mr. Herpes won't see it though as he - with the prospect of actual competition - immediately seems to have placed me on his foe-list.

[Maremmano]

bamage, u have to apologise yourself. than do it.
your redicolous accuses make me laugh! if u are in acting right tell me why u lose your time in this discussion. MORON it's u!
and remember that i've never accused u. i just told about my suspects, and i asked someone to tell me if there where a reason to suspect about u. what's wrong with it? isn't it the right use of this kind of topics?


about timogl's messages:
i'm sorry...i've lost them! i've just his last message and all the messages i've sent him in our "post relation". i tought that i have, but i don't, 'cause i deleted everithing axcept the last one, in with i suppesed there were all the history. sorry.
if there is any interest in this, i can let u read what i have:

--------------------------------
--------------------------------


Re: that game

Sent at: Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:18 pm
by Maremmano
blue didn't make any mistake!
i have to resist now...'cause everybody want me to die!!!
so i think i will wait a little to see what's happening. tryn to stay in north america

* Quote timogl

Re: that game

Sent at: Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:04 pm
by timogl
its obvious what blue is thinking, why else would he put his army where it can't attack you? he got helped out, of course, by the pink making a tragic attack from africa to south america.

i don't want you to tell me what you are going to do next, it doesn't matter. anyway, i know what you're going to do. you are going to put north america back together and sit strong on greenland. there is no advantage in attacking now. if blue had put his army where it could attack, different story. but he is figuring you and he will get all the weak players out, and then fight it out. you have more bonus, of course. it might depend on who takes africa first. you might even take africa instead of north america i guess. blue could beat you to it, but it looks like he is going to go ahead and cripple the pink. it is a big mistake on his part, he had you on the ropes before, and should have gone right on pressing it. pink? green? not a factor in the game, not at all.
Re: that game

Sent at: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:56 pm
by Maremmano
ok, we are not making an alliance or similar things...but i'm not so sure it is safe what we are doing now.

in any case: how do u know what blue is thinking? ...i'm afraid of u!!! i'm afraid u want me to tell u what i'm goin' to do next... and i'm wondering u did it with the other players too...
am i paranoic??? may be!
in any case, pls, let go onm with this discussion after the game is finish, or after one of us is die!
ok?
bye
Re: that game

Sent at: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:26 pm
by Maremmano
blue is goin' to win u think?
if u are sure about it, why don't u tell it in the common chat?
we can't go on speacking here, it's too danger: for me and for u (secret truces are forbidden!!!)!
let's play and let's chat there...and if u really think what u told me now, explain it and do whatever u think it is right to do.
maybe we'll wirte our considerations after this game is finished ok?
bye!!!
Re: that game

Sent at: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:37 am
by Maremmano
...i'll see how u'll play.
i'm not hangry. i'm furious!
your excuses are not enough now. if u want to let me think u are sorry for true, make me understand it in the game...playng, not with words.

see u there,
good luck!
Maremmano_

[bamage]

If those are really your replies, then you're an honorable player. Timogl is not.

Moderator, please read these closely. Though they were talking about the game, it does seem like maremmano tried to suppress it.

I'm going to reference this exchange in the accusation I've leveled against Timogle and maremmano.

[Bones2484]

If those are really your replies, then you're an honorable player. Timogl is not.

Moderator, please read these closely. Though they were talking about the game, it does seem like maremmano tried to suppress it.

I'm going to reference this exchange in the accusation I've leveled against Timogle and maremmano.

I said it in the other thread, and I'll say it here. There is no talk about secret alliances (or even a hint of them). Get over it.

[king achilles]

Checking the game right now, it does not appear that these two players have any secret diplomacies between them. All players are trying survive right now and just waiting for someone to make that 'mistake' that would turn the tide for this game. If you can show more games where they have made suspicious moves to benefit the other, then we shall look into this further.