Europa [Quenched]

[ZeakCytho]

I don't like the fact that there are two different kinds of army rectangles - a light and a dark. I realize this is for legibility, but I'd pick the one that's more readable (the light one) and use only that.

6. Micro-states: San Marino and Vatican City. Does this really need an explanation? Would renaming 'Vatican City' to just 'Vatican' help? I'm not convinced either way...

I thought things were understandable as is. Maybe you could make San Marino more of a shape like the other small states. The Vatican is too small to reasonably do that, though...

8. Gameplay is fairly open - is this considered a good thing or a bad thing? If bad, how bast to restrict movement, without introducing artificial 1-way attacks, and other superficial barriers?

I like the gameplay as is, but if you needed to restrict it, you could make other rivers impassable. I mean, the Rhine could restrict movement from France to Germany, Lux, and/or Belgium...and I can't think of any other rivers now, but I'm sure they're there

My biggest problem with this map by far is the lack of capitalization. Please please please please please capitalize the first letter of each territory.

[InkL0sed]

Speaking as Grammar Nazi™, I must admit I don't mind the lack of capitalization...

[fireedud]

Have you ever considered adding Crete and Cyprus to the list of Med. Islands and making the bonus +1 for 2, +2 for 3, +3 for 5, and +5 for all of them. ( there probably is an easier way to say this)

[Ruben Cassar]

I think you're on the right track Ben. There are some compromises that you have made which were inevitable and I understand that there was no other way.

Just try to change the colour of the Balkans since it's very similar to the river next to it. Keeping one shade of army circles is always advisable as well.

[MrBenn]

First i will repeat that Grecce is a part of Balkan.
Second-Countries shapes in Balkan look very very strange.(Croatia have some autentical look,but others)
And last-you must put explanation on map for Kaliningrad.

Qwert, I am not going to get drawn into another debate about the Balkans. I know that Greece is on the Balkan peninsular - I have never denied that - but I have had to make this compromise for gameplay purposes.
Thanks for picking up on the country shapes - I will have another look at the borders in the Balkan region, and try and make them match up more closely to the actual geography (although there will be some distortion here to make things fit properly).

I don't like the fact that there are two different kinds of army rectangles - a light and a dark. I realize this is for legibility, but I'd pick the one that's more readable (the light one) and use only that.
Maybe you could make San Marino more of a shape like the other small states. The Vatican is too small to reasonably do that, though...
I like the gameplay as is, but if you needed to restrict it, you could make other rivers impassable.
My biggest problem with this map by far is the lack of capitalization. Please please please please please capitalize the first letter of each territory.

I like the idea of putting some 'shape' to the micro-states, so I'll have a look at that.
Thinking of rivers, I'm sure somebody mentioned a river between Germany/Poland - that might be enough to help things in the middle - I'll have a look at some more maps...

Speaking as Grammar Nazi™, I must admit I don't mind the lack of capitalization...

Ordinarily I would be a grammar purist too, although I do like the lowercase look . It's my intention to put up a poll to settle this debate, but I want to get another update or two done first.

Have you ever considered adding Crete and Cyprus to the list of Med. Islands and making the bonus +1 for 2, +2 for 3, +3 for 5, and +5 for all of them. ( there probably is an easier way to say this)

Crete and Cyprus are on the list of med islands (bottom-right of the map) which isn't initially obvious... I think I want to keep the bonus as a straight 'any x islands'=+3, as they are all in two continents. I'm contemplating making it any 4 islands though...

I think you're on the right track Ben. There are some compromises that you have made which were inevitable and I understand that there was no other way.
Just try to change the colour of the Balkans since it's very similar to the river next to it. Keeping one shade of army circles is always advisable as well.

Agreed about the army circles - they'll all be white on the next update. I 'll keep fiddling with the region colours until I find something I'm happy with, and that is differentaited enough.

[edbeard]

If the Hellenics are going to be +1, then BeNeLux and the Balticss need to be +1 as well

Only 2 territories can attack BeNeLux. Only 3 territories can attack the Baltics. 6 territories can attack the Hellenics.

Only 2 continents border BeNeLux and Baltics. 3 border the Helenics.




I realize Western Europe is large in terms of the number of territories, but +5 seems excessive when you only need to hold 3 territories. You do have 7 territories that can attack you from 4 continents but 6 of those border France and you can cut down to two borders if you take Sardinia. Maybe the large number of borders for France, and the 8 territories needed to hold it are worth +5, but I'd need someone to convince me at this moment. +4 seems right.

I could be swayed that we want all the continents to have slightly larger bonuses since the map is very open and without larger bonuses those places become weak. Eg: british isles what am I going to do with only a +2? or central europe if I only get +3, I'm screwed since I have 9 territories from 5 continents that can attack me. But then why is

I still might want this to be a +4 though since it seems like the best thing to do (if I hold W. Europe) is to take BeNeLux as well and hold Germany. Three borders and a +7 (germany, france, sardinia) seems like it could be too tough for everyone else.


It's really hard to say because of how many borders some of these places have. I only have to hold 2 or 3 territories but I have to defend from 11 or 9 territories. I think it'll force action at the least.





As I said in a pm, I wonder how many people will be confused by russia being split in two




keep the labels UNCAPITALIZED. it makes it so much easier to read. with all the territories in small places, it helps.

[MarVal]

You asked for my suggestions and so here they are

I like the colors, the textures uncapitalized, the legend, using Africa and Middle East for extra text, Europa logo, landscape, borders and mountains. Great work you've been done


The river IMO is to big, is it possible to make the river smaller 1 or 2 pixels? I think the proportions aren't the same with the landscape scale.

I agree with the continent bonuses of what edbeard says about it. Only thing I wanna add is that the bonus of Scandinavia is too high (+4), I think for defending 3 borders (and only can be attacked on 3 ways) you also gets 3 bonus for holding that continent.

If you want that BeNeLux take part of the strategy, you can make a dot line (attack route) from Ne (Netherlands) to England. Otherwise you only have to hold France and Germany for the bonus and then BeNeLux has no strategy area at all, IMO.

Maybe for another strategy put mountains (the Pyrenees) between France and Spain. And use Andorra for the only way to go North and go South.

Maybe you can make a dot line from Kaliningrad to Russia, so Kaliningrad will be part of strategy and also must be hold for having the bonus of holding transcontinental.

And one more question, Is it an idea for having a bonus for holding more European microstates (such as you do with med. islands):
- Andorra
- Liechtenstein
- Malta
- Monaco
- San Marino
- Vatican City

But mostly I like the way you work with all the suggestions, opinions and ideas of all the members. Just like my style

Grtz
MarVal

[Joop]

First i will repeat that Grecce is a part of Balkan.
Second-Countries shapes in Balkan look very very strange.(Croatia have some autentical look,but others)
And last-you must put explanation on map for Kaliningrad.

1. It's also hellenic.
2. He changed the borders of smaller and more 'crowded' countries to make room(like some balcan countries and Liechtenstein and Andorra), I'm sure that's why.
3. I agree. Or make Kaliningrad dead space maybe?

[Qwert]

1. It's also hellenic.
2. He changed the borders of smaller and more 'crowded' countries to make room(like some balcan countries and Liechtenstein and Andorra), I'm sure that's why.
3. I agree. Or make Kaliningrad dead space maybe?

1.What you mean Hellenic? Grecce is a Country located in Balkan peninsula.
Now aim notice that malta is Italic state,why?
I think that Malta,Crete and ciprus must be a part of mediteranean,and Grecce part of Balkan.

[Ruben Cassar]

1. It's also hellenic.
2. He changed the borders of smaller and more 'crowded' countries to make room(like some balcan countries and Liechtenstein and Andorra), I'm sure that's why.
3. I agree. Or make Kaliningrad dead space maybe?

1.What you mean Hellenic? Grecce is a Country located in Balkan peninsula

Apart from geography there is also culture.

Ben used the culture aspect - the hellenic aspect - to group Greece, Crete and Cyprus together. This way the Balkans area is less crowded.

[Ruben Cassar]

If the Hellenics are going to be +1, then BeNeLux and the Balticss need to be +1 as well

Only 2 territories can attack BeNeLux. Only 3 territories can attack the Baltics. 6 territories can attack the Hellenics.

Only 2 continents border BeNeLux and Baltics. 3 border the Helenics.

I say make Hellenics +2 like the Benelux and Baltic regions.

[Qwert]

Sorry ruben aim not finish post,and now i update previous post

[Ruben Cassar]

Sorry ruben aim not finish post,and now i update previous post

No worries qwert. Once again with Malta he used the cultural aspect. Culturally Malta is linked with Italy not Crete or Cyprus. However he also included a Mediterranean islands bonus. I think you missed it. So he actually took the best of both worlds.

I must admit I like the groupings Ben used this time. They are the best he could come up with when considering all the issues he has had in the progress of this map.

[MrBenn]

Update!

-All the army shadows are now white
-I have adjusted the colours on the legend very slightly, and muted the colours a bit
-The Balkans have been redrawn to look a bit more accurate, although there is still some distortion there.

[Ogrecrusher]

Awesome. I've followed this a long time, and I'm loving it now!

[Qwert]

here these map can help you with balkan countries shapes.I think that you have space to improve these.

note-i get PM from Mrbeen to give opinion about balkan countries shapes

[oaktown]

it really has come a long way, hasn't it.

How about some kind of texture on the Med islands? I know they're are spelled out in the corner, but i didn't see that at first and I was trying to figure out which islands they were by the map. I recognize the need to have them different colors, but I'd push for some kind of identifying texture or symbol on the map itself.

[hulmey]

*note , Malta was and never will be a state of Italy!! Could you please make a Meditteranean State or sumthing?

Also which are the Meditteranean islands, coz its not very clear on your map!

Good Job, cant wait to play on your lovely Map, its gonna be one of my favs

[edbeard]

Also which are the Meditteranean islands, coz its not very clear on your map!

there's a legend on the bottom right of the map. Also, all the islands in the Mediterranean on the map are the Mediterranean Islands.

[AndyDufresne]

... Also, all the islands in the Mediterranean on the map are the Mediterranean Islands.

Very profound...

The map is looking great.


--Andy

[WidowMakers]

Colors are much better. In the map and the legend as well. I also like the gradient effect on the legend for the islands. It helps explain them better than the previous white.

WM

[Bavarian Raven]

honestly i liked the old europe better but anyways...

[Blitzaholic]

honestly i liked the old europe better but anyways...

I like the old europe map alot, is this gonna replace, or keep both, i say keep both

[InkL0sed]

honestly i liked the old europe better but anyways...

I like the old europe map alot, is this gonna replace, or keep both, i say keep both

It's an entirely different map, NOT a revamp.

[Blitzaholic]

honestly i liked the old europe better but anyways...

I like the old europe map alot, is this gonna replace, or keep both, i say keep both

It's an entirely different map, NOT a revamp.

ok kool, as long as we keep the other europe, awesome

but I would play this europa too