Hell. Is it a real place?

[Knight of Orient]

Call it what you wish

I will. I call any who believes in the supernatural delusional.

I have seen the hand of God many times in my life

Of course you have. If you try hard enough you might see the virgin mary in the clouds and jesus in a cornfield from the air. You can see anything if you look hard enough, and you look very hard as it's the center of your life.

But that doesnt make it real.

your non-belief will never lead me away from the truth.

You are probably right. You have thouroughly convinced yourself and to turn back now would be having to admit brainwashing since birth. Plus you have a large support system of similarly confused folks who back you up. You tell your story, they all say "hallelujah" and your beliefs are reinforced. You have a very happy (albeit delusional) life.

And a misdiagnosis is extreamly unlikely

Probably so...but it does happen. Just thought I would mention it.

twisting words now?

[Backglass]

twisting words now?

Huh?

Knight. If you are going to participate, please complete your thoughts. Also consider quoting only the parts you are concerned with instead of needlessly re-posting a post in it's entirety.

[Knight of Orient]

When Jay said he has seen the hand of God many times, he has seen God in peoples lives, healing people, touching their lives...not a cloud, or a cornfield. someone who has been lame all their life, now able to walk? Hardly chance. It's God. And since we now know God is real, we know Hell is real. You choose: Heaven or Hell? God or Satan?

[Knight of Orient]

there is one, all of your remarks in that one post were what i was referancing to. just so you know.

[Backglass]

someone who has been lame all their life, now able to walk? Hardly chance. It's God.

Who are we talking about? Who was this "lame" person who suddenly walked.

And since we now know God is real, we know Hell is real. You choose: Heaven or Hell? God or Satan?

Huh? We now know? Because you once heard a story about the "lame" walking? Show me medical facts. Show me the parapalegic who stood up and ran accross the room after years of paralysis. All of the "miracles" you spout are easily explainable.

Where are the amputees that grew new limbs? Where are the regenerated kidneys for children born with none? Cant your god do that? He is all powerful right? Or would that be too obvious a miracle. We cant go around having undeniable prrof now can we, that would be to easy.

[Knight of Orient]

someone who has been lame all their life, now able to walk? Hardly chance. It's God.

Who are we talking about? Who was this "lame" person who suddenly walked.

And since we now know God is real, we know Hell is real. You choose: Heaven or Hell? God or Satan?

Huh? We now know? Because you once heard a story about the "lame" walking? Show me medical facts. Show me the parapalegic who stood up and ran accross the room after years of paralysis. All of the "miracles" you spout are easily explainable.

Where are the amputees that grew new limbs? Where are the regenerated kidneys for children born with none? Cant your god do that? He is all powerful right? Or would that be too obvious a miracle. We cant go around having undeniable prrof now can we, that would be to easy.

I went to a major confrence, Billy Graham was the speaker. At it I saw a woman in her 40's that had to be brought in on a wheel chair. I didnt think anything of her. during the confrence, I noticed how much she enjoyed the sermon. Later, on, He began praying over her with several deacons. The he told her to stand up. She did not think it possible, for she protested, not believing it possible. When she tried, she sprang up as if her legs were new, with out hindrance. That is something That has stayed with me....the Power of God is something I believe in.

[Backglass]

I went to a major confrence, Billy Graham was the speaker. At it I saw a woman in her 40's that had to be brought in on a wheel chair. I didnt think anything of her. during the confrence, I noticed how much she enjoyed the sermon. Later, on, He began praying over her with several deacons. The he told her to stand up. She did not think it possible, for she protested, not believing it possible. When she tried, she sprang up as if her legs were new, with out hindrance. That is something That has stayed with me....the Power of God is something I believe in.

Surely you cant be serious. You, and everyone else in the room were duped. Why doesnt Mr. Graham head down to the local hospital and make a few more walk? Ever ask that question? Why must they be pre-arranged in an auditorium? With this power why isnt he spending every waking moment healing people? Why just one every now & then?

I saw David Copperfield make the Statue of Liberty dissappear. I SAW IT WITH MY OWN EYES. That is something that has stayed with me. A Miracle!

[Knight of Orient]

It wasnt prearranged. Also, God just doesnt let you just pray for someone so they will be healed. God would not be God if we demanded he work for us. Some things must go their course. For others, He will intervene.

Also, you making your jokes about what christians say on this thread show that that is the best you can do, not to mention your low level of maturity on this topic for one.

[Backglass]

It wasnt prearranged.

Yes it was. Please prove me otherwise.

Also, God just doesnt let you just pray for someone so they will be healed. God would not be God if we demanded he work for us. Some things must go their course. For others, He will intervene.

Ah yes...the "He works in mysterious ways" or "We cannot comprehend his actions" catch-all cop outs. Sorry, that doesnt fly with me because you see, I dont believe any of it. Please come up with something concrete if you wish to convince me of your mystery man in the sky.

Also, you making your jokes about what christians say on this thread show that that is the best you can do, not to mention your low level of maturity on this topic for one.

Quite good jokes actually. Pitty you have no sense of humor or ability to percieve irony when presented.

Perhaps I should strive to be more mature. Yes...more like the Christian who, when backed into a corner, just called me a dumbass on this very thread.

[Knight of Orient]

And when did I ay that? .................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................still waiting for your reply.

[Knight of Orient]

Alright BackGlass, I am going to say this much: I am tired of truying to talk about a topic to someone who will not have an open mind at least about it. We can go on on and on, and we will keep fighting. So, can we just end this like men and have at least no more probs here?

[Backglass]

And when did I ay that?

Say what? Please learn to use the Quote button so we all know what you are talking about.

[Backglass]

I am tired of truying to talk about a topic to someone who will not have an open mind at least about it.

Now THATS the first funny thing you have said! It's comical after all you have written, to claim that I or the other non-believers arent open minded. We are ALL ready, willing and able to believe in anything that is real. We are open to ALL possibilities...you are closed to only one. I am more than willing to be shown god exists! But you have to prove it to me. No guesswork, no "just have faith", no "click your heels three times and wish for home".

To say "I saw a lady in a wheelchair get up and walk" means nothing without background facts. Was her spinal cord severed? THAT would be a miracle. Car accident victims have lifted vehicles off trapped loved ones. I say the brain/mind is very powerful and untapped. You will most likely say that that a god gave them the power to lift that chevy, because thats what you want it to be.

Give me something concrete...not fairy tales and wishes...and I will sing kumba-ya with you all night long.

[stinkycheese]

Now THATS the first funny thing you have said! It's comical after all you have written, to claim that I or the other non-believers arent open minded. We are ALL ready, willing and able to believe in anything that is real. We are open to ALL possibilities...you are closed to only one. I am more than willing to be shown god exists! But you have to prove it to me. No guesswork, no "just have faith", no "click your heels three times and wish for home".

To say "I saw a lady in a wheelchair get up and walk" means nothing without background facts. Was her spinal cord severed? THAT would be a miracle. Car accident victims have lifted vehicles off trapped loved ones. I say the brain/mind is very powerful and untapped. You will most likely say that that a god gave them the power to lift that chevy, because thats what you want it to be.

Give me something concrete...not fairy tales and wishes...and I will sing kumba-ya with you all night long.

Truer words have never been said. Show some proof and we will gladly believe.

[Mirak]

Alright BackGlass, I am going to say this much: I am tired of truying to talk about a topic to someone who will not have an open mind at least about it. We can go on on and on, and we will keep fighting. So, can we just end this like men and have at least no more probs here?

OPEN MIND?
Excuse me for shouting but you are in no position to suggest anybody of being narrow minded on this subject...except perhaps Jay

Show me something rational and credible and I for one will be delighted to consider it on its merits

Billy Graham cured an invalid before your eyes?! Is there a limit to your gullibility...? if not please send a check for $100 to PO BOX 75724 Dubai UAE and I guarantee that I will pray for you to see things more clearly

[Mirak]

Is there a limit to your gullibility...? if not please send a check for $100 to PO BOX 75724 Dubai UAE and I guarantee that I will pray for you to see things more clearly

I was being sarcastic here...please do not...repeat.... do not... send a check, thank you

[ieatplasmarifles]

Hell exists, and believe me, if you are one of those crazy scientologist whack jobs, you will be visiting there really soon =D

[jay_a2j]

Wow this is really starting to irk me.


There have been countless healings by God. There is a man in my church who was at stage 4 cancer. I say "was" because he doesn't have cancer any more. I also believe that for a person to be healed they must posses FAITH. Every time Jesus healed someone he said, "Your faith has healed you".

I have heard testimony of limbs regenerating, seen criples get up and walk. A man drove from NY to Texas with no brakes on his vehicle. Things that can't be explained by the humanistic, Godless existence that backglass lives in. No dobt that when we talk to backglass we are tossing pearls to the swine. And there is no need for this. He is an extreamly misguided individual who seems to take pleasure in sticking his fingers in his ears and stopping up and down saying,"I don't believe you! God doesn't exist!" As if that benefits him at all. I am glad I know what I know and will share it with anyone who is willing to listen... backglass doesn't fit this description.

[vtmarik]

Limb regeneration? As in total regeneration?

Is there an article about this in a medical journal, because regardless of if it was God who did the healing or if it just spontaneously happened you'd see it in some Peer-reviewed medical journal.

[Mirak]

A man drove from NY to Texas with no brakes on his vehicle. Things that can't be explained by the humanistic, Godless existence that backglass lives in.

Jay
I thought for a while you had lost your sense of humour...
NY to Texas without brakes...fantastic

Incidently you are probably the only person I have ever seen who seems to use the term" humanistic" and variations of it in a negative context...

To me to be "human"or humane is probably, in a word, everything Jesus was about...

[Backglass]

I have heard testimony of limbs regenerating

Jay, you just lost all credibility. If this is true, it would be the biggest news on our planet since electricity, regardless of ANY religious beliefs. It would be front page news. It would be written in every medical journal on the planet. Please find one and post the source.

I hope you do because I cannot continue to attempt an intelligent debate with someone who thinks that a SEVERED ARM OR LEG HAS REGROWN because of anything...let alone because of a supernatural being.

Are you so gullible that if someone gives "testimony" to some supposed miracle it's automatically TRUE? Dont even YOU want some proof if only to discredit the non-believers?

[jay_a2j]

I have heard testimony of limbs regenerating

Jay, you just lost all credibility. If this is true, it would be the biggest news on our planet since electricity, regardless of ANY religious beliefs. It would be front page news. It would be written in every medical journal on the planet. Please find one and post the source.

I hope you do because I cannot continue to attempt an intelligent debate with someone who thinks that a SEVERED ARM OR LEG HAS REGROWN because of anything...let alone because of a supernatural being.

Are you so gullible that if someone gives "testimony" to some supposed miracle it's automatically TRUE? Dont even YOU want some proof if only to discredit the non-believers?

Limb regeneration....an impossible feat for man but God is not man and nothing is impossible for Him. The testimony, if memory serves me well, was of two men who had witnessed this (missionaries possibly). If you don't even acknowledge the existence of God then you sure can't take Him out of the box. This was testimony of Christians and I believe them not because of these two men but because GOD CAN. Also, if it happened, it would not automatically make it to the front page news,as many of these men and women work in isolated villages tucked away in places that modern society has not gone.

Remember Jesus healed the sick, gave sight to the blind, made the lame walk and raised the dead. Jesus also told us that , "We (Christians) would do all the things He did and more".

[stinkycheese]

Limb regeneration....an impossible feat for man but God is not man and nothing is impossible for Him. The testimony, if memory serves me well, was of two men who had witnessed this (missionaries possibly). If you don't even acknowledge the existence of God then you sure can't take Him out of the box. This was testimony of Christians and I believe them not because of these two men but because GOD CAN. Also, if it happened, it would not automatically make it to the front page news,as many of these men and women work in isolated villages tucked away in places that modern society has not gone.

Remember Jesus healed the sick, gave sight to the blind, made the lame walk and raised the dead. Jesus also told us that , "We (Christians) would do all the things He did and more".

May I ask what type of post-secondary education you had?

[Stopper]

Limb regeneration....an impossible feat for man but God is not man and nothing is impossible for Him. The testimony, if memory serves me well, was of two men who had witnessed this (missionaries possibly).

[And other unsubstantiated stuff about driving to Texas from NY without brakes]

Hmmm, in the "jay_a2j...genuine or wind up merchant" thread, I had voted for "genuine". I now think I may want to reconsider my vote....

[vtmarik]

Limb regeneration....an impossible feat for man but God is not man and nothing is impossible for Him. The testimony, if memory serves me well, was of two men who had witnessed this (missionaries possibly). If you don't even acknowledge the existence of God then you sure can't take Him out of the box. This was testimony of Christians and I believe them not because of these two men but because GOD CAN. Also, if it happened, it would not automatically make it to the front page news,as many of these men and women work in isolated villages tucked away in places that modern society has not gone.

Remember Jesus healed the sick, gave sight to the blind, made the lame walk and raised the dead. Jesus also told us that , "We (Christians) would do all the things He did and more".

Holy crap, you are crazy. I've been giving you benefit of the doubt, but now I know that you are just looney. I think we can safely leave this thread to die since this man can claim that a limb regenerated (a feat which has not since been repeated apparently) without any evidence other than the two people who popularized the story. I hate to break it to you, but that does not an airtight case make. We need a little bit more than just the word of two people who so happened to be the ones who brought the story to the world's attention.

If this was real, if a limb actually regenerated, don't you think the varied doubters would step up and go "Well, holy christ nuts in a coffee can, how about that?" and give the idea of God a little more of a chance?

Reminds me of the story about how there were these witches in this village and the village hung many of them for refusing to confess their witchcraft, and then it turned out that none of them were witches. The people who brought up the original accusations were just mad at their neighbors.


I think we can safely let this thread die now, I mean... he's overstated the argument to the point that he's bringing up gems like this one. I think, while it isn't a win for the doubters necessarily, it's a loss for the theists. And by extension we can also let the "Logic Dictates There Is A God" thread die. I mean, why wait for him to bring up another gem like this?