Poker Club [Quenched]

[Tieryn]

If we go for connections defined by words, rather than position, it would make sense to have the cards spread out in a way that is aesthetically pleasing and easy to get army circles into. Something like this might be an idea, but each suit would need to be spread out further than currently shown, and perhaps separated into 4 "fan" piles on the green felt surface, with chips stacked up around the place.

[yeti_c]

Just a cheeky bump to mention that I'm bringing this map out of vacation/abandonment...

C.

[jiminski]

Excellent Idea!

[yeti_c]

And here is my first draft of a layout and rules...

Click image to enlarge.

C.

[TaCktiX]

I like the rules, and I think the bonuses are fairly in-line with the difficulty of getting hands. But a few questions:

- What about the possibility of a lucky drop in a smaller player game, causing a guy to have 3 of a kind at the start? Will there be neutrals, or will that just come with the "territory"? (pun unintended)

- Graphics I know will improve, it being a first draft, but what sort of randomness are you planning for the map proper? Exactly as shown, or will cards move around on the layout as more possibilities are explored?

- Why am I not surprised that the XML guru of CC is going to code an XML nightmare?

[gimil]

Good to see this one back yeti. For the time being im going to watch this from afar.

For the XML an I correct in saying you had something that could generate a large part of teh XML for you?

[DiM]

my biggest problem with this map is that in 1v1 it has the potential to be a total screwup.
in my opinion chances are that the first player to go might even get the highest bonus.
i mean, in 1v1 each player gets 17 terits. for sure he will have a bonus of at least +4 and in some cases maybe even the royal flush

[jiminski]

my biggest problem with this map is that in 1v1 it has the potential to be a total screwup.
in my opinion chances are that the first player to go might even get the highest bonus.
i mean, in 1v1 each player gets 17 terits. for sure he will have a bonus of at least +4 and in some cases maybe even the royal flush

why only 17 terits per person in a 1 v1 ? i am missing something won;t it be 26? ... or do you add 18 neutrals?

[yeti_c]

my biggest problem with this map is that in 1v1 it has the potential to be a total screwup.
in my opinion chances are that the first player to go might even get the highest bonus.
i mean, in 1v1 each player gets 17 terits. for sure he will have a bonus of at least +4 and in some cases maybe even the royal flush

A valid point this is... I guess that could be tweaked with neutrals - but should we?

Remember of course - that yes he probably will start with a +4 - but every other map starts with +3 remember.

C.

[yeti_c]

For the XML an I correct in saying you had something that could generate a large part of teh XML for you?

Nope.

C.

[yeti_c]

I like the rules, and I think the bonuses are fairly in-line with the difficulty of getting hands. But a few questions:

- What about the possibility of a lucky drop in a smaller player game, causing a guy to have 3 of a kind at the start? Will there be neutrals, or will that just come with the "territory"? (pun unintended)

- Graphics I know will improve, it being a first draft, but what sort of randomness are you planning for the map proper? Exactly as shown, or will cards move around on the layout as more possibilities are explored?

- Why am I not surprised that the XML guru of CC is going to code an XML nightmare?

a) see response to DiM...

b) Yeah - WM said he'd do the GFX for it - this is my first stab at making the board random across the deck - if anyone can see anything glaringly obvious that could be tweaked then say...
I wanted to get the "face cards" away from each other... and no pairs together... and then spread from top left to bottom right increasingly - so as to make a few combinations possible...

c) Not an XML nightmare - an XML masterpiece!!!!

C.

[yeti_c]

my biggest problem with this map is that in 1v1 it has the potential to be a total screwup.
in my opinion chances are that the first player to go might even get the highest bonus.
i mean, in 1v1 each player gets 17 terits. for sure he will have a bonus of at least +4 and in some cases maybe even the royal flush

A valid point this is... I guess that could be tweaked with neutrals - but should we?

Remember of course - that yes he probably will start with a +4 - but every other map starts with +3 remember.

C.

Alternatively - I could create a shit load of starting territories that try to stop Good bonuses... and give everyone starts of 4 or 5 on each terit?

C.

[gimil]

How about giving peach player 4 starting terrs and make the rest nutral? And work the layout around that.

[yeti_c]

How about giving peach player 4 starting terrs and make the rest nutral? And work the layout around that.

Hmmm - that could work...

Actually - 5 would be better - as that's a hand...

C.

[DiM]

my biggest problem with this map is that in 1v1 it has the potential to be a total screwup.
in my opinion chances are that the first player to go might even get the highest bonus.
i mean, in 1v1 each player gets 17 terits. for sure he will have a bonus of at least +4 and in some cases maybe even the royal flush

A valid point this is... I guess that could be tweaked with neutrals - but should we?

Remember of course - that yes he probably will start with a +4 - but every other map starts with +3 remember.

C.

true but on every other map BOTH players start with +3 so for example in classic you have +3 and kill 1-2 terits from me and then i still have a +3 and a chance to come back.
here if you start with +4 or even more i might begin my turn with just +1. huge difference = game over for me.

[yeti_c]

my biggest problem with this map is that in 1v1 it has the potential to be a total screwup.
in my opinion chances are that the first player to go might even get the highest bonus.
i mean, in 1v1 each player gets 17 terits. for sure he will have a bonus of at least +4 and in some cases maybe even the royal flush

A valid point this is... I guess that could be tweaked with neutrals - but should we?

Remember of course - that yes he probably will start with a +4 - but every other map starts with +3 remember.

C.

true but on every other map BOTH players start with +3 so for example in classic you have +3 and kill 1-2 terits from me and then i still have a +3 and a chance to come back.
here if you start with +4 or even more i might begin my turn with just +1. huge difference = game over for me.

Also a valid point - what do you think to Gimils 5 card start idea?

C.

[conquerAce]

I love this idea but a couple of thoughts:

How about making it more fair and have players start with only two terts. Thus the biggest bonus that is possible is for a pair which is not that big of an advantage. Maybe even have higher number of neutrals on cards of higher rank.

Why is there an extra bonus for a royal flush? It is just a higher straight right?

Would you ever consider a Joker? The joker acts as an Ace unless it completes a straight or a flush. Thus making the strongest hand five aces. I'm not sure what it does to the XML but just a thought.

[yeti_c]

I love this idea but a couple of thoughts:

How about making it more fair and have players start with only two terts. Thus the biggest bonus that is possible is for a pair which is not that big of an advantage. Maybe even have higher number of neutrals on cards of higher rank.

Why is there an extra bonus for a royal flush? It is just a higher straight right?

Would you ever consider a Joker? The joker acts as an Ace unless it completes a straight or a flush. Thus making the strongest hand five aces. I'm not sure what it does to the XML but just a thought.

Royal Flush is the highest hand you can have in Poker.

Joker makes the XML so much harder.

C.

[conquerAce]

Royal Flush is the highest hand you can have in Poker.

I realize that the royal fuslh is the highest ranked hand but I don't understand the bonus of three extra armies.

a 6-7-8-9-10 straight is beaten by a 10-J-Q-K-A straight but there isn't an additional bonus for having the ace high straight.

Conversely, a 6-7-8-9-10 straight flush s beaten by a 10-J-Q-K-A straight flush so why have the additional 3 army bonus. Odds are the higher value cards will be highly contested terts as you can use them for gaining a bonus with other types of hands but isn't the ace high straight flush just another straight flush? Just looks pretty

Joker makes the XML so much harder.

I kinda figured it would be more complicated.... Just thought if the limitation of the play of the joker could make it a little easier. Like you couldn't use it in a full house of threes over twos just aces over threes.

[badlouie]

I love the general concept at work here. Anyone willing to work on a project that combines my addiction to Conquer Club and my addiction to poker is to be commended.

As for the 'Royal Flush' bonus, it's a necessity. Yes, it is simply a 'higher straight flush', but in real poker it's incredibly rare. Granted, it should be more difficult to attain than an ordinary straight flush, but it's appropriate to be awarded more points than a run-of-the-mill straight flush.

[yeti_c]

Royal Flush is the highest hand you can have in Poker.

I realize that the royal fuslh is the highest ranked hand but I don't understand the bonus of three extra armies.

a 6-7-8-9-10 straight is beaten by a 10-J-Q-K-A straight but there isn't an additional bonus for having the ace high straight.

Conversely, a 6-7-8-9-10 straight flush s beaten by a 10-J-Q-K-A straight flush so why have the additional 3 army bonus. Odds are the higher value cards will be highly contested terts as you can use them for gaining a bonus with other types of hands but isn't the ace high straight flush just another straight flush? Just looks pretty

If you notice though - the Royal flush is harder in 2 ways...

A) I've spaced the face cards around quite a lot.
B) A straight flush has 2 ends - thus it's easier to maintain cos you can extend it easier... a Royal flush starts at 10 ends at A... it's therefore a lot harder to get and hold.

C.

[conquerAce]

Okay i wasn't sure that that was the final map layout...

But then by point b is any straight that consists of an ace of higher value? It is just as hard to get a straight with A-2-3-4-5...

Only reason I bring it up is that there is a perception that a Royal Flush is a special hand... it's just like other straight flush, just the highest one.... i mean you don't get extra money when you win with it in a poker game why should there be an extra bonus above and beyond the straight flush bonus?

That's all I'm saying.

[yeti_c]

Okay i wasn't sure that that was the final map layout...

But then by point b is any straight that consists of an ace of higher value? It is just as hard to get a straight with A-2-3-4-5...

Only reason I bring it up is that there is a perception that a Royal Flush is a special hand... it's just like other straight flush, just the highest one.... i mean you don't get extra money when you win with it in a poker game why should there be an extra bonus above and beyond the straight flush bonus?

That's all I'm saying.

Can you get a straight from A-5? Are Aces High & Low or just High? (But then again the point then moves to 2-6 otherwise - except that I've put the A's as far apart as possible!)

But yes - Royal Flush is technically just the best Straight flush... but that's the rules of the poker... and technically you *could* get more money - cos you can bet with complete conviction that you're gonna win - if played correctly then it should make you more money...

C.

[conquerAce]

Yes a straight A-2-3-4-5 is possible and in some games is considered the second best straight-straight flush because it contains the ace which makes it harder to complete.

I was looking at the layout and i can see the royal flush very possible giving someone the opportunity for a lucky drop...

Simply spreading out the face cards won't make it more difficult to get an ace high straight flush... with the layout of the cards now it's very conceivable to make an ace high club straight flush...

Either way I'll ply the map first chance i can...

As for the money thing... i've won more with three sixes than a royal flush. People are just too smart to pay when a royal flush is out there... but that's another thread for a different forum.

[yeti_c]

I was looking at the layout and i can see the royal flush very possible giving someone the opportunity for a lucky drop...

Simply spreading out the face cards won't make it more difficult to get an ace high straight flush... with the layout of the cards now it's very conceivable to make an ace high club straight flush...

Can you suggest a way to change this?

Note that we may be limiting people to 5 cards at the start anyway - thus ensuring a "good drop" isn't possible.

C.