N Korea and testing Nukes

[vtmarik]

Are you serious? You'd rather us be sitting ducks on the receiving end of a nuclear attack? Screw the treaty. Hopefully we will never see the day where that SDI coulda came in handy.

You really are begging for apocalypse aren't you? Even past the point of actual thought.

Allow me to reiterate:
THERE. WILL. NEVER. BE. AN. ATTACK.

Why?
BECAUSE. WE. HAVE. NUKES. TOO.

If they attack us, we retaliate and everyone dies. There is no winner. Perhaps you should stop reading Revelation and start using that 3 pound lump that God gave you called a BRAIN!

[heavycola]

And the news has always been bad. So what.

Maybe you're alot younger than I. Because I can clearly see the difference in todays headlines then say in the 80's. When I was a kid I respected my elders.... today? Forget about it. Each generation that passes gets worse.Ask anybody who has studied sociology.

As far as i remember, the headlines here in the UK in the 80s were dominated by the new killer disease AIDS, the miners' strike (thousands out of work, pitched battles between strikers and riot police... depressing times), the famine in Ethiopia in which millions died... How were they different Jay? Things ARE NOT GETTING WORSE. IT IS IN YOUR IMAGINATION - which thanks to your faith is expecting god to send famine, disease, war and natural disasters just to let his flock know - albeit at the cost of millions upon millions of innocent lives - that jesus is in his dressing room and it won't be long now (which has been the thinking since Paul's conversion almost 2,000 years ago).

Flag guy - look: even if KJI's 'nook' did go off, he won't have one capable of being launched in a missile for several years. And as soon as he puts a foot wrong - by which I mean makes any sort of military move, conventional or nookler, against one of his nabers, he is finished. This is all posturing, that's all.

[Pedronicus]

I hope America never deploys a nuclear missle if this is anything to go by:
American Knowledge of Geography
And you know this lack of knowledge is only going to get worse

[hitandrun]

Maybe you're alot younger than I. Because I can clearly see the difference in todays headlines then say in the 80's. When I was a kid I respected my elders.... today? Forget about it. Each generation that passes gets worse.Ask anybody who has studied sociology.

The difference, if any, in the news reporting since the 80s is the way it's reported. Admittedly I saw less American "news" then, but if the UK is anything to go by; the reporting now is just more sensationalised but the content stays much the same.

Each generation that passes gets worse at what? Respecting their elders? Respect has to be earned. If you are my elder you sure ain't earning it and if I'm your elder I don't demand it. I have studied sociology, however, I fail to see your point.

[jay_a2j]

Are you serious? You'd rather us be sitting ducks on the receiving end of a nuclear attack? Screw the treaty. Hopefully we will never see the day where that SDI coulda came in handy.

You really are begging for apocalypse aren't you? Even past the point of actual thought.

Allow me to reiterate:
THERE. WILL. NEVER. BE. AN. ATTACK.

Why?
BECAUSE. WE. HAVE. NUKES. TOO.

If they attack us, we retaliate and everyone dies. There is no winner. Perhaps you should stop reading Revelation and start using that 3 pound lump that God gave you called a BRAIN!

You are floating in the Egyptian river called DENIAL

Man has never made weapons they didn't use. Wake up.

[heavycola]

Jay i beg you - I urge you - to please think before you post. Or at least do some cursory research.

What about SALT? I remember being given a pin badge at school that was made out of a dismantled nuclear ballistic missile. It WASN'T USED. Actually most of the same missile was turned into prams (it was Russian). The US and the USSR had thousands of ICBMs and still managed to not blow each other up. Please, please tell me on what you base your assertion?

North Korea may be about to join the nuclear club - but it DOES NOT FOLLOW that nuclear war is an unavoidable consequence. I feel like I am reasoning with a madman.

[jay_a2j]

What about SALT? I remember being given a pin badge at school that was made out of a dismantled nuclear ballistic missile. It WASN'T USED. Actually most of the same missile was turned into prams (it was Russian). The US and the USSR had thousands of ICBMs and still managed to not blow each other up. Please, please tell me on what you base your assertion?

Just because no one HAS used then doesn't mean they WON'T use them. My God we were even contemplating using a small nuke on Iran to stop them from obtaining nukes! We have disarmed some nukes but not all and the world becoming "nuke free" is a pipe dream. You say "madman" I say realist.

[vtmarik]

Just because no one HAS used then doesn't mean they WON'T use them. My God we were even contemplating using a small nuke on Iran to stop them from obtaining nukes! We have disarmed some nukes but not all and the world becoming "nuke free" is a pipe dream. You say "madman" I say realist.

How many nukes have ever been used in the history of the world?

Two. The ones dropped on japan at the end of WW2.

How long has it been since that fateful day. A little over 60 years.

If your "realism" was any actual indication of reality, then we would have seen at least one nuclear strike during that time, but lo and behold there weren't any.

Do you know why? Because the reality is that everyone who has a nuke is scared shitless to use it. They know that if they fire off a missle, every other country allied to the one being targeted will launch a nuke at the aggressor. Then the allies of the original aggressor will launch nukes at every other country.

That's the principle that kept the US and the USSR from shooting nukes during the cold war. All KJI has done is pulled up to the big kids table and demanded equal time.

They've done one test, which means that they just now got the technology, and that they're at least 1500 tests behind us. So will you quit the doomsaying and actually think for once?

Do you come up with this tripe on your own, or does your minister jam it down your throat?

[jay_a2j]

Do you come up with this tripe on your own, or does your minister jam it down your throat?

Testy, testy are we? All I have learned on end-time prophesy I have learned on my own. As ministers steer clear of this topic for the most part so as not to make people like you uncomfortable. So much for the "jamming" theory.

Zechariah 14:12


"This is the plague with which the Lord will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their toungues will rot in their mouths"

"Nuclear weapons burn so instantaneously, that bodies are consumed with fire before they fall to the ground."

Now you need proof that The Bible is in fact the Word of God.


Lets look at its track record for a moment:

http://books.google.com/books?id=CW5nxq ... 7EtQEUBUs8


http://books.google.com/books?id=CW5nxq ... t7gEW9fznU


Now, you can go on denying what is plain as day or you can look into it more on your own time and discover for yourself.


"A smart man learns from his mistakes but a wise man learns from the mistakes of others"

[vtmarik]

I can fight with quotations too Jay:

"The fool believes himself to be wise, the wise man understands himself to be a fool."

I hate to break it to you, but that same passage was used by doomsayers during the Cold War, because they were so certain that the Bible said that we'd all die from a Soviet missle attack.

*shrugs* But then again, it could happen this time. Yeah, and I could get hit with a meteorite made of solid platinum.

EDIT: Oh, and rotting and burning are in no way the same thing. Rotting is decay, burning is combustion. At the epicenter of a nuclear attack, flesh evaporates. As you radiate outwards from the center, it's heat and wind. Flesh is stripped and burned off the bones of the living before the bones themselves succumb to scorching heat and howling winds. Then at the outer ring, it's all wind at that point. You'd know that if you'd paid attention in science class.

The closest thing in this world to all flesh rotting is Necrotizing Fasciitis, more commonly known as Flesh Eating Bacteria. (More info here.)


And here's another quote, just thrown in for flavor:
"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion..."

That's from Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli (1797) unanimously ratified by the US Senate and signed by President John Adams. More info here.

Now, I formally request that we get back on topic here. Let's keep the Bible Talk on the various God threads we have. K?

[jay_a2j]

Hmmm, and who brough up religion in this thread? Let me see, Oh! here it is!

Do you come up with this tripe on your own, or does your minister jam it down your throat?

[vtmarik]

Hmmm, and who brough up religion in this thread? Let me see, Oh! here it is!

Do you come up with this tripe on your own, or does your minister jam it down your throat?

*shrugs* Oh, i'm sorry. I had just assumed that your grasping to the "nuclear holocaust" theory was motivated by religion.

Here's the kicker though: It was.

Good technique though, Jay. You almost managed to divert the blame to me.

[jay_a2j]

Hmmm, and who brough up religion in this thread? Let me see, Oh! here it is!

Do you come up with this tripe on your own, or does your minister jam it down your throat?

*shrugs* Oh, i'm sorry. I had just assumed that your grasping to the "nuclear holocaust" theory was motivated by religion.

Here's the kicker though: It was.

Good technique though, Jay. You almost managed to divert the blame to me.

Like I said, I'm a realist.

[vtmarik]

Like I said, I'm a realist.

Ah, so there's no chance of you actually responding to my refutation of Zechariah or the fact that the passage you quoted has been used countless times to predict different catastrophes over time and that each time nothing happened.

[jay_a2j]

Like I said, I'm a realist.

Ah, so there's no chance of you actually responding to my refutation of Zechariah or the fact that the passage you quoted has been used countless times to predict different catastrophes over time and that each time nothing happened.

It becomes pointless when one is so blinded by humanism that he can't see the truth.

The Zechariah verse could not possibly be refering to these "countless" catastrophes because at no time in history before now have we had a weapon that could "burn skin" right off the bones while still standing. You are tring to make a sandcastle out of sand void of water. And this is why it is pointless to debate that kind of mindset. (you just keep packing the sand in vain trying to shape a castle)

[vtmarik]

It becomes pointless when one is so blinded by humanism that he can't see the truth.

I'm not blind. I just can't help using the power of thought that God gave to me. Call me goofy, but I just can't stop using my brain.

The Zechariah verse could not possibly be refering to these "countless" catastrophities because at no time in history before now have we had a weapon that could "burn skin" right off the bones while still standing. You are tring to make a sandcastle out of sand void of water. And this is why it is pointless to debate that kind of mindset. (you'r gust keep packing the sand in vain trying to shape a castle)

How long did the Cold War last? And when India and Pakistan both got nukes.

Ok, so they aren't "countless" but they never took place.

And the passage says "A plague" not a weapon. Let's avoid putting words in Zech's mouth, ok? Not to mention that he says "Rot" not "Burn."
Add onto that the fact that we haven't fought against Jerusalem and you've got one non-applicable bit of scripture there my friend.

And yes, I can make a sandcastle out of dry sand, since oil isn't wet.

[P Gizzle]

read this article. now im starting to get scared because im sure Bush will try to call the bluff

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061011/ap_on_re_as/koreas_nuclear

[vtmarik]

read this article. now im starting to get scared because im sure Bush will try to call the bluff

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061011/ap_on_re_as/koreas_nuclear

Keep in mind that this is the same country that threatened conflict over the size of the flags on the table during diplomatic talks. KJI wants to take his newfound 15 minutes out for a spin, that's all.

Relax man. Bush ain't as stupid as he looks.

[jay_a2j]

Not to mention that he says "Rot" not "Burn."
Add onto that the fact that we haven't fought against Jerusalem and you've got one non-applicable bit of scripture there my friend.

Lets pretend you live sometime before Christ. God has given you a vision of a microwave. Now descibe it.



We haven't fought against Jeruselem YET. And Nukes haven't been used against their enemies YET. What was your point? And why do you think "Jerusalems enimes" include the US? I don't think at that time the US will even exist.

[vtmarik]

Lets pretend you live sometime before Christ. God has given you a vision of a microwave. Now descibe it.

Can I buy some pot from you?

It's easy to tell the difference between something rotting and something that's just evaporating.

We haven't fought against Jeruselem YET. And Nukes haven't been used against their enemies YET. What was your point? And why do you think "Jerusalems enimes" include the US? I don't think at that time the US will even exist.

And why would we attack our only ally in that area of the world? The people to whom we've given weapons and planes and economic assistance to.

Reminds me of that old Tom Lehrer song in a way:

Now Israel's getting tense
wants one in self defense.
"The Lord's Our Shepherd," says the Psalm
But just in case...
We're gonna get a bomb!

[P Gizzle]

read this article. now im starting to get scared because im sure Bush will try to call the bluff

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061011/ap_on_re_as/koreas_nuclear

Keep in mind that this is the same country that threatened conflict over the size of the flags on the table during diplomatic talks. KJI wants to take his newfound 15 minutes out for a spin, that's all.

Relax man. Bush ain't as stupid as he looks.

KJI is insane!!!!!!!!!!! he will do whatever whenever. if that means blowing us up, hey that sounds like fun!!!! keep in mind, he could take over the world by blowing us up. we could get him, but remember elections are coming and whoever's elected won't fight a war! look at Bush's popularity, before and during the war. it dropped like 60%!!!!!

Bush ain't as stupid as he looks.

i don't think he's stupid. i think he's had bad advice. i think he is just as smart and nice and respectable as any other president the US has had or will ever have. im saying that he will call a bluff because he "knows" we're better than them!

[vtmarik]

Dude trust me on this, it's gonna be ok. Take a deep breath and remember that articles like this are designed to illicit maximum fear with minimum effort.

Don't freak out on me man, the last thing we need to do at this point is panic.

Bush's popularity went away because the war was turning into a quagmire and Bush refused to even acknowledge that fact. The polls are much more honest than the voting booth because there's an assurance of anonymity.

[jay_a2j]

It's easy to tell the difference between something rotting and something that's just evaporating.

It may be, but did they know what "evaporation" was back then?

[P Gizzle]

Dude trust me on this, it's gonna be ok. Take a deep breath and remember that articles like this are designed to illicit maximum fear with minimum effort.

Don't freak out on me man, the last thing we need to do at this point is panic.

im not panicking, im just a little upset that everyone says, "we'll be allright". we have never faced a man who could probably be considered legally insane. i know that chances are that we'll be ok, but it scares me to think that a mad man has the power to blow up an entire city on will!!! it's like a frickin sci-fi movie!

[P Gizzle]

great just what we need. another terrorist attack..... or some idiot driving a plane into a building i can't tell

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/plane_nyc