Europa [Quenched]

[yeti_c]

What's the Paw with BP in it for?

It's my 'signature'...

But what does BP stand for?

C.

[rebelman]

why has the point about the balkans raised by me (p13) and others been ignored by the map maker ?

on a more general point this map really needs a lot of work to get it to ff standard

[Qwert]

Cairnswk
MrBenn...forgive me for not trolling all the way back through the thread if this has already been discussed,,,but how is this going to go for downsizing to the small map...are the armies going to fit onto some of these smaller terts.

I agree with Cairn,can its posible to show small version of map?

[yeti_c]

why has the point about the balkans raised by me (p13) and others been ignored by the map maker ?

on a more general point this map really needs a lot of work to get it to ff standard

I'm pretty sure it wasn't ignored it was decided against...

C.

[MrBenn]

I have always said that the small map will be worked-on once there is consensus of opinion for the continent groupings (currently Italy/Central etc).

I'm not sure what Rebelmans point about the Balkans was... There was a lot of debate about Turkey, and I decided to keep the whole of Turkey as one (Transcontinental) country, rather than splitting it into European/Asian Turkey. At the same time I took the 'European' bit away from the name of Russia to help clarify this.

The grouping of other Balkan countries was changed slightly when the River Danube was added as an impassable; as it didn't make any sense to have Romania and Moldova isolated from the rest of the continent. This also helped balance the map a bit.

With regards Army numbers/Territory names, I'm not sure what to do about Slovakia at the moment... I'll put it on the To Do/ Think About list!

[MrBenn]

on a more general point this map really needs a lot of work to get it to ff standard

[sarcasm]
Really??
[/sarcasm]

On a general note, what specifically do you think needs more attention?

[Wisse]

not sure if mentioned before, but some textures would make it easier to look at. (it doesn't have to be much as long as there is a bit)

[MrBenn]

Thanks Wisse. I thought I had put a texture on the map... Perhaps I've turned it off while sorting out continent groupings? I'll look into it

[pissedoffsol]

i think you should just make itay a part of the purple bonus with sicily, etc.

[MrBenn]

Continent/Region Grouping Poll
As promised, I have drafted a couple of versions of maps with different continent groupings for Central/Meditteranean Europe for the CC community to decide.

Here are the options:

Map A: Mainland Italy; Med Isles; Central Europe
Map B: Mainland Italy and Med Isles merged to form Meditteranean
Map C: Mainland Italy and Central Europe merged to form a bigger Central Europe
Map D: Mainland Italy, Sardinia and Sicily merged to from Italia; Med Isles reduced to Corsica, Balearic Isles, Crete, Cyprus
Map E: Sardinia & Sicily are in the Italian continent AND Med Isles continent.

Here are the samples: The poll will be here for two weeks. Happy voting!

[pissedoffsol]

i like B

[Qwert]

you forget option F)Crete to be a part of Grecce.

[MrBenn]

Qwert, I just mocked up a version of Map F just for you, but I can't add it to the poll
If enough people vote to split up the Med Islands, then I'll give this further consideration.

[gimil]

Qwert, I just mocked up a version of Map F just for you, but I can't add it to the poll
If enough people vote to split up the Med Islands, then I'll give this further consideration.

I can add another option if you need it benn

[MrBenn]

Please do
F=Other

[john1099]

Why do we need two versions of one map?

[MeDeFe]

Why do we need two versions of one map?

Good question, delete World 2.1 someone, and extreme global warming is also a world map, as is Doodle. And one of the AoR maps, not to mention two of the three US based maps.

[yeti_c]

Qwert, I just mocked up a version of Map F just for you, but I can't add it to the poll
If enough people vote to split up the Med Islands, then I'll give this further consideration.

In fact you could take that one step further...

Crete = Greece
Cyprus = Turkey
Sardinia & Malta = Italy.
Rest = Med islands.

Either way though - I voted A.

C.

[MrBenn]

Why do we need two versions of one map?

Good question, delete World 2.1 someone, and extreme global warming is also a world map, as is Doodle. And one of the AoR maps, not to mention two of the three US based maps.

Saved me an argument!

Any European on this site will tell you that the current Europe map is inaccurate... but most people want it left alone... Hence a NEW map and not a revamp. If you look at it, you'll notice that (aside from the graphics) it is quite different from the current Europe map... More territories, continents etc...

[Qwert]

john1099



Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 2191
Location: St. Catharines, ON
Posted: 07 Feb 2008 23:36 Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why do we need two versions of one map?

These two version of Europe map is not same,first version present Europe map before 1988(ofcourse names of some country is quit inacurate and must change to map be acurate),and Mrbenn map present today Europe countrys and borders,and is a much much diferent then old map of europe.

[Ruben Cassar]

I have been thinking on a way to get the continent groupings fine for this map and I came to these conclusions:

Gibraltar is a British overseas territory I think, not a sovereign state. Don't think it should be there unless it is like a kind of bonus added to when you hold Britain.

Make Monaco, Andorra, Malta, San Marino, Vatican and Cyprus neutral states or small states group. You get a bonus if you hold say some (4+) or all of them. Would actually create some added strategy to the map. For example holding 4 = +1 units, 5 = +2 units, 6 = +4 units.

Make Portugal, Spain, Balearic Isles, France, Corsica, Italy, Sardinia and Sicily as part of a single grouping. This will be Latin Europe.

BeNeLux needs to be part of Central Europe with Germany, Austria, Switzerland.

Russia needs to be added to Eastern Europe because it ACTUALLY IS the biggest state in Eastern Europe and you are leaving it out of that grouping!

Crete will be part of the grouping in which Greece is included.

If you divide the groupings like I am telling you you will get the most accurate map of Europe possible. I hope you give some thought to my suggestions.

[Qwert]

Ruben These is briliant idea

[MrBenn]

Ruben, thanks for your input, and the thought you've been putting into this map... I appreciate your honesty, criticism (constructive), and creativity.

Here's my vaguely thought-out response to your post above:

1. I'm toying with the idea of Gibraltar/England being connected, but there isn't a lot of room for an ocean path there... I'm not overly concerned about keeping it on the map, so I'm open about keeping it or not!

2/3. I like the 'Micro-state' idea, and the Latin Europe grouping makes sense. However, all of the micro-states would be inside Latin Europe (except Cyprus)... I need to think about this a bit more to see how it could work...

4. I originally had BeNeLux as part of Central Europe; is your suggestion to have them merged together again, or as some sort of World 2.0 sub-continents? If they're merged completely, then Central Europe becomes 7 territories, defended by 5 borders... just throwing that into the mix for discussion...

5. Depending what happens with the rest of the Med Isles (outcome of 2/3 above), I've no qualms about putting Crete with Greece in the Balkans...

This is my intial thoughts about your suggestions... I've a feeling that there isn't going to be a nice easy solution! As i said before, i really do appreciate your input.

[Ruben Cassar]

Ruben, thanks for your input, and the thought you've been putting into this map... I appreciate your honesty, criticism (constructive), and creativity.

Here's my vaguely thought-out response to your post above:

1. I'm toying with the idea of Gibraltar/England being connected, but there isn't a lot of room for an ocean path there... I'm not overly concerned about keeping it on the map, so I'm open about keeping it or not!

2/3. I like the 'Micro-state' idea, and the Latin Europe grouping makes sense. However, all of the micro-states would be inside Latin Europe (except Cyprus)... I need to think about this a bit more to see how it could work...

4. I originally had BeNeLux as part of Central Europe; is your suggestion to have them merged together again, or as some sort of World 2.0 sub-continents? If they're merged completely, then Central Europe becomes 7 territories, defended by 5 borders... just throwing that into the mix for discussion...

5. Depending what happens with the rest of the Med Isles (outcome of 2/3 above), I've no qualms about putting Crete with Greece in the Balkans...

This is my intial thoughts about your suggestions... I've a feeling that there isn't going to be a nice easy solution! As i said before, i really do appreciate your input.

Thanks, I want this to be a great map and you have shown a lot of dedication towards achieving this goal and I hope you find the best compromise.

1. I wasn't thinking about connecting them actually. More of an overseas territory. It works this way, when you hold the British Isles you get a bonus. If apart from holding the British Isles you also hold Gibraltar which is not connected you get +1.

2/3. Yes,some of them would be inside Latin Europe. But that's the price you have to pay I guess if you want to have all of them. Still you could compensate this by making Latin Europe's bonus bigger since it's more difficult to hold.

4. Yes, I think they should be part of Central Europe as one big continent.

[oaktown]

I didn't vote for any of the proposed groupings, because I'm uncertain as to whether you want to emphasize geographical distinctions, or if you are working with modern political boundaries as you have elsewhere. None of the options reflect current political alignment.

My preference would be that since the rest of the map is political in its divisions, the islands should be as well... greek islands with greece, italian islands with italy, spanish islands with spain, etc.

Of course, what you do with Cyprus is sure to piss somebody off!