Conquer Club

My topic regarding the UFO picture only went well for a short time before it boiled down to a flame war. In this topic, we are going to discuss our opinions on what the galaxy could have in store for us without

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There are two rules in this topic:

1: Completely ignore Rook38, no matter what he says or does. He has already shown us that he is not capable of having a conversation without insulting one or several other users. So anything Rook says should be completely disregarded, and you should simple act as if his post was not there.

2: Try to be specific when giving a description or explanation. It is important to not confuse readers, because if they can't figure out exactly what you are saying, they may simply ignore your point.

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Now in my opinion, I think aliens do exist. There is no question in my mind that they are out there. When you think about all the stars, and each star is going to have its planets, and some of them are going to have planets that are probably pretty similar to ours. And if not planets, then probably specific locations that could potentially harbor life.

When thinking of aliens, two things come to mind: Little green men from mars, and huge, frightening beasts like the "Alien" series of movies. Obviously the idea of little green men isn't too interesting. But the other kind.... A great example of what alien life could be like is the "Alien" series. Almost like giant insects. And while of course we could talk about every sci-fi movie ever made, I feel that the "Alien" series in particular is somewhat realistic.

Now, of aliens are going to need to get around. In my opinion, some UFO's ARE in fact alien ships. There have been tens of thousands of people who claim to have been abducted by aliens, or seen an alien ship. There are thousands of videos and photos of things that simply completely defy physics as we know it. And yes, my mind jumps to my fake UFO photo, but lets try to keep this analogy in mind: Just because you can forge a 20 dollar bill, does not mean that all 20 dollar bills are forgeries. It's the same with UFOs. Even if only a handful of all the videos and photos are real, thats still some pretty solid evidence right there.

And some people say "isn't it really funny how EVERY description and drawing of an alien looks identical?"

Well, no, its not funny, because thats obviously what the aliens look like! Would you be more inclined to believe in aliens if every story was completely different, describing aliens that range from giant insects to humanoids to a race of laughing psychotic robots that live on liquefied iron and aluminum filings?


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The floor is now yours. What do you all think?


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And remember, ignore Rook.

true i however believe aliens exist and that UFOs are fakes. I believe one day we will finally find life from another planet but it won't be that from a "UFO"

So, what do you think of those people who claim to have been abducted? And all the various incidents such as the one at Roswell, New Mexico? All of them completely faked by the hundreds of people who were involved?

Well, there is no conclusive proof of abduction. Some cases are memories implanted by leading questions asked while the abductees were under hypnosis, some were vivid dreams accompanied with fluctuations in the sleep cycle, and some are just unexplained.

Personally, the remote chances of a world orbiting a star that is able to support life are balanced out by the sheer amount of galactic space. The Milky way is over *sings the Galaxy song to get the measurement* "100,000 light years side-to-side." The universe contains billions of galaxies smaller, the same size, and larger than ours. With the chances as remote as they are, there is also enough stellar matter with enough planets in the universe that there has to be some life somewhere.

Another fact that the naysayers tend to ignore is that conditions don't have to be earth-like for life to thrive. Life will adapt to its environment, that is just a fact of genetics. They may be intelligent, but they may bear no resemblance at all to life as we know it.

It is ignorant to assume that no other life out in the universe exists, or that the possibility of alien visitation is complete insanity. While a great number of UFO sightings are either unconfirmed or outright hoaxes, there still exists the possibility that an intelligent alien species could visit us. It is incredibly improbable, but not wholly impossible.

The events at Roswell will probably never be fully divulged. If it were an alien spacecraft, these details would surely be kept under the tightest security possible to avoid civilian panic and/or uprising. If it was a Russian spy drone or balloon, that would also be kept under the tightest security.

A lot of people say that the US Government isn't capable of that kind of security, that all of the gaffes committed by the gov't are proof that they can't even keep an affair secret for very long. I think we should give them more credit, after plans like Operation Northwoods weren't revealed until they were declassified in the late 90s.

*shrugs* Do I think abduction is real? I don't have the expertise or the data to make that kind of call. Do I think that life may exist on other planets? Yes. With a universe this size, there is no way that life only exists on our one insignificant little rock.

Now thats the kind of post I wanted my other topic to be filled with!

I would debate that, but I agree almost completely.

Thats what i believe i just believe UFOs are fake!

Yea vtmarik pretty much hit the nail on the head with that one. Since there's no one debating it yet, I'll pretend to be jay for a second. "If there were aliens, God would have told us about them". (he did actually say this somewhere)

Well, as far as UFOs go a majority of the sightings are hoaxes. Technically, anything you see in the sky that you cannot identify is a UFO, but pictures of UFOs often turn out to be complete nonsense, like the frying pan in the UFO thread.

While UFOs may not be alien spacecraft, they are still in the sky and unidentified. Weather balloons, drone aircraft, model planes, meteors streaking through the sky, and even things like shooting stars and ball lightning are all technically UFOs. Everything is a UFO until it is indentified.

maniacmath17 wrote:Yea vtmarik pretty much hit the nail on the head with that one. Since there's no one debating it yet, I'll pretend to be jay for a second. "If there were aliens, God would have told us about them". (he did actually say this somewhere)

Oh please, we don't need a Jay-doll to thrash around. Thanks for the thought though. I'm sure Caleb or Truman will mosey on in here to stir up trouble like they always do.

EDIT: Here's the Wikipedia entry of UFO's for y'all, in case you're bored.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO

Thats true, but there are some things that are caught on tape doing things that they simply shouldn't be able to do. Traveling at insane speeds, making instant 90 degree turns without losing a bit of speed, reversing direction and accelerating at insane rates. I don't have any links to back this up, but I'm sure some people know what I'm talking about.

One piece of footage in particular of a UFO shooting down an ICBM during a test flight comes to mind. While the missile is in flight, a black dot flies into he scene, fires something at the missile, spins around and dives underneath, fires again, the flies up and around to the back before firing another time, and then flies out of the scene. The missile then completely lost control and crashed into the desert flats. I mean what the hell can do that?

I'm going to look for a link, does anyone else know what I'm talking about?

EDIT: Still looking for the video, but here's the testimony of the guy in charge at the time: http://www.galactic-server.com/rune/greer1.html

EDIT 2: Here's the guy live in the video I was talking about. Turns out it was just an animated simulation I saw. But his story is still pretty realistic and he's definitely not some nutjob. http://youtube.com/watch?v=zcPCWEYSgY4

Interesting story, but we don't have any corroborrating evidence. If it was a court case, this guy wouldn't win with only that testimony.

The story sounds plausible, but at the same time without any other evidence I have no way to come to a conclusion. I reserve judgment until I can find more data.

Cool story though, it'd make a good intro to a novel.

I think there must be life out there somewhere.

I have trouble with the idea that they'd bother flying all the way over here just to buzz around for a bit so people can take blurry photos.

So either they haven't found us yet, they have and they're ignoring us, or they have made contact and one government or another is hushing it up (for reasons which Hollywood and the X Files have yet to explain to me)

I think we can rule out the government hush-up theory. Sorry. Certainly the UK government couldn't keep a secret for 40 years, and the US doesn't have a stellar record of keeping secrets secret either. All it would take is one guy retiring and wanting to sell the story for millions and it 'd be in the open.. if someone had proof it would have been leaked by now.

Besides, like I said, why would they hush it up? Imagine the weapons the US could sell if the whole planet had to arm itself against aliens. They'd be making POSTERS of the proof and sending them to everyone with the money to buy. Suddenly they'd be everybodies best friend again. Aliens would be great for the US, which is why I'm certain they don't have anything concrete, IF indeed they have anything at all.

So I'm going for "yes there almost certainly are other lifeforms out there, but they haven't found us yet, or they have and they don't give a shit."

Oh, and by the way.. there's a weird correllation between how aliens are portrayed in the science fiction movies of a particular decade and how they are described by "abductees" of that time. I'm not saying anything, but thats a fact.

Well, the reason some wouldn't want there to be worldwide knowledge of aliens is simply the control factor. Once another race of people came to this world, human kind could start seeing themselves as humans rather than arabs, americans, britons, etc. They'd be terrible for governments, because the focus isn't on domestic (meaning Earth) affairs and on these aliens. All these precious political borders and gerrymandered voting districts would be rendered meaningless in the wake of contact with another planet. It'd take a big event to bring mankind together, and I think that alien visitation would be that event.

Governments can keep the important details secret. Operation Northwoods, for example, was kept secret for around 30 years and there were no leaks until the project itself was declassified. When someone reveals top-secret or classified information, they don't make millions with a book deal. They're either intimidated into silence or arrested for treason.


Personally, I don't believe many abduction stories. Why would a group of beings travel to Earth just to impregnate women or probe men? Unless Douglas Adams was right about Teasers:

Ford Prefect wrote:Teasers are rich kids with nothing to do. They fly around the universe looking for planets that no one's made interstellar contact with and buzz them. [...] Yeah, they land in some isolated spot in front of some poor soul who no one's ever gonna believe and strut up and down in front of them wearing silly antennae on their heads and making 'Beep Beep' noises. Rather childish really.

not likely, our galaxy is 2 small

Sammy gags wrote:not likely, our galaxy is 2 small

Do you realize how big our galaxy is?

Let's put it into perspective. The distance between the Earth and the Sun is approximately 93 million miles. That distance is one Astronomical Unit (AU). A light year is 63 239.6717 AU [5,881,289,468,100 miles] Our galaxy is 100,000 light years wide and 150,000 light years long [Do the math yourself]. That's a pretty big distance.

Improbable yes, but not impossible.

Really on earth we had the optimal conditions for life.

strike wolf wrote:Really on earth we had the optimal conditions for life.

For human life. A planet made up entirely of water, for example, could spawn aquatic life. A planet with tremendous gravity could produce small, multilegged life. And so on...

Any manner of lifeforms are possiblities. If it hadn't been for the meteor strike, there might be a race of sentient beings that evolved from the dinosaurs.

Earth has optimal conditions for our existence, but it's not the only type of planet that can sustain life when you take into account that lifeforms could adapt and evolve to any climate with the right starting materials. We're carbon-based, but life could exist elsewhere that's nitrogen-based or copper-based or what have you.

Of course, you all know that ETs are all based on "If evolution is true, there must be others out there!"

Now, if evolution isn't true...then this would all be a bunch of hocus pocus, right? Exactly right. I wrote a paper previously about this, but I'd prefer not to get into this topic any farther, so be free to deluge yourselves into thinking what you think about this nonsense.

Truman wrote:Of course, you all know that ETs are all based on "If evolution is true, there must be others out there!"

Now, if evolution isn't true...then this would all be a bunch of hocus pocus, right? Exactly right. I wrote a paper previously about this, but I'd prefer not to get into this topic any farther, so be free to deluge yourselves into thinking what you think about this nonsense.

Truman, we're here to discuss theoretical science, not religion. Go away.

Where did I ever write the word "religion" in my post? No where. Where did I imply religion in my post? No where. It seems you like to twist anything against what you believe. I'm sorry, did I offend you?

My friend, I am a bisexual, discordian, patriotic anarcho-materialist. I don't get offended, I offend others.

You implied religion by referencing the possibility that "evolution isn't true." Science is the search for and analysis of fact, Philosophy is the analysis of truth, and religion is the search for truth. Sorry to call it like I see it.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. *waves byebye to Truman* I'm not saying that there is definitely life on other worlds, but i'm saying that it would be foolish to assume that there is no other life in this infinite universe.

Prediction from earlier wrote:I'm sure Caleb or Truman will mosey on in here to stir up trouble like they always do.

Damn, I should've put money on it.

You assume that if evolution isn't true that creationism can only be the other possiblity. This isn't true in any way but you seem to think it to be. But anyway, wouldn't that be why they never ever bring creationism under real scientific scrutiny when questioned? They simply throw it out and assume it could have never happened because their religion is harmed by the mere idea that creation could have ever occurred at all.

Could always look to the Drake Equation, again though that is hotly debated, as you can put in any values you want for each of the variables. There are a few general area numbers that are used for certain variables, but again, you can put in what you wish.


--Andy

AndyDufresne wrote:Could always look to the Drake Equation, again though that is hotly debated, as you can put in any values you want for each of the variables. There are a few general area numbers that are used for certain variables, but again, you can put in what you wish.


--Andy

The drake equation? The album by Tub Ring? *checks wikipedia*

Oh, new evidence. Something to read up on. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

According to the article, it mentions that the Rare Earth hypothesis may refute it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth_hypothesis

EDIT: The only problem with these two things is that they assume the same requirements for alien life that they do for human life to a certain extent. Thanks to my young life watching shows like Star Trek and SeaQuest, I can envision the possibility of life that can have other forms. Crystalline life, rock life, sentient clouds of gas. These are the alternate forms of life i'm talking about.

Wikipedia is a scary frontier, 1984-esque. Essentially, if enough people get behind a certain idea, they can make it fact, and erase others that they don't agree with. **chills run down his spine**


--Andy

AndyDufresne wrote:Wikipedia is a scary frontier, 1984-esque. Essentially, if enough people get behind a certain idea, they can make it fact, and erase others that they don't agree with. **chills run down his spine**


--Andy

Yeah, but their articles about scientific stuff are referenced and cited so you can check up on them. These are the kinder, gentler side of the evil empire.