Conquer Club

The UK Government has today announced it will construct the first section of its new high speed railway in merely 15 years, and for only 160% of the total amount they originally estimated!

The first phase of the HS2 high-speed railway between London and Birmingham will be delayed by up to five years, Transport Minister Grant Shapps says.

That section of the line was due to open at the end of 2026, but it could now be between 2028 and 2031 before the first trains run on the route.

HS2's total cost has also risen from £62bn to between £81bn and £88bn, but Mr Shapps said he was keeping an "open mind" about the project's future.

Originally expected to cost £56bn in 2015 prices, Mr Cook said the new cost estimate was adjusted for inflation, and based on today's prices.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49563549

A big hand to the UK Government and its continuing efficient use of taxpayers' money and rapid repositioning of the UK to face the future

For some perspective, China's high speed rail network went from 'non-existent' to 'more than 10,000km of track' in half that amount of time.

California's High Speed Rail had similar goals..
that worked out great for them

too bad we cannot all have that lucrative Chinese 'labor force'.

From the same article in OP:

Mr Cook said the delay had occurred because the original plans did not account for the effect of building through densely-populated areas with difficult geographical features.

According to NoProblem, if the UK Government had access to Chinese labour its high speed rail project would not have made the mistakes that have subsequently caused it to become delayed and over budget: inaccurate time and cost projections. I guess what NP is saying is that Chinese planners and engineers are the best in the world, despite costing less. He may have a point!

mrswdk wrote:From the same article in OP:

Mr Cook said the delay had occurred because the original plans did not account for the effect of building through densely-populated areas with difficult geographical features.

According to NoProblem, if the UK Government had access to Chinese labour its high speed rail project would not have made the mistakes that have subsequently caused it to become delayed and over budget: inaccurate time and cost projections. I guess what NP is saying is that Chinese planners and engineers are the best in the world, despite costing less. He may have a point!

guessing at what I meant & ignoring I was referencing the Chinese Slave Labor Standards commonly known throughout the world are 2 completely different things..

but your bubble is your bubble... just keep on refusing to acknowledge what is actually happening

China’s Forced Labor Problem


Forced labor in China receives remarkably little attention despite decades as the world’s factory floor.

- Brick Kiln Slavery : The first, and worst, was the incident of enslaved young and elderly people as well as adults with disabilities in brick kilns.

- Forced Electronics Internships :Other industries also rely on a cheap and pliable workforce amounting to forced labor by the exploitation of a large numbers of student interns from vocational schools

- Withheld Wages in Construction : In recent months, because of Chinese New Year on February 16, annual wage arrear protests have peaked because of withheld payments. Especially in construction, wages are withheld for up to a year
- Forced Domestic Work : In recent years, media and local NGOs have focused increasingly on the abuse of foreign domestic workers in Hong Kong, a city with one of the world’s highest densities of foreign domestic workers, comprising 10 percent of its labor market and enjoying some statutory labor rights.

- Profiting on Vulnerability : Despite immense differences in professions, industries, employment relations, and worker backgrounds, the above cases of forced labor have some common features: Workers are vulnerable in their local contexts (youth, elderly, disabled, foreigners, rural migrants). Workers are strongly tied to employers, in the sense that there is a substantial menace of leaving or trying (losing up to a year’s wage, failing to graduate, risking physical abuse or worse). The coercion is persistent and widespread within the respective industries, despite years of awareness raising by NGOs and media.

https://thediplomat.com/2018/03/chinas-forced-labor-problem/

I would like to know if mrswdk or the family was impacted by the one child policy in china?

HitRed wrote:I would like to know if mrswdk or the family was impacted by the one child policy in china?

a better question is --> what will China do to the families in Hong Kong who have more then 1 child....?

Thanks NoProblem for making an attempt to wade into a complex area of discussion. You appear to have spent a long time researching. Let me just summarise some of those points in your post for you though, to help:

NomadPatriot wrote:Forced labor in China receives remarkably little attention despite decades as the world’s factory floor.

- Brick Kiln Slavery : people abducted and forced to work in remote rural areas

- Forced Electronics Internships : students do low/unpaid internships

- Withheld Wages in Construction : employers failing to pay staff properly
- Forced Domestic Work : abuse of domestic workers

I count four occurrences or ongoing issues that are all present in the UK, US, and indeed every country in the world to some extent. I also count four labour market issues that have absolutely nothing to do with the cost to the government of constructing a high speed railway.

Thanks for the effort though. With a bit more honest effort on your part I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of this!

NomadPatriot wrote:

HitRed wrote:I would like to know if mrswdk or the family was impacted by the one child policy in china?

a better question is --> what will China do to the families in Hong Kong who have more then 1 child....?

Why don't you tell us all what you think would happen? I think that would be an entertaining way to start this thread of discussion.

Start by telling us what the Chinese government's policy on having children is, and the sanctions the government would impose on a family that violated its policy. Don't leave out any details, we want to hear it all.

mrswdk wrote:Thanks NoProblem for making an attempt to wade into a complex area of discussion. You appear to have spent a long time researching. Let me just summarise some of those points in your post for you though, to help:

NomadPatriot wrote:Forced labor in China receives remarkably little attention despite decades as the world’s factory floor.

- Brick Kiln Slavery : people abducted and forced to work in remote rural areas

- Forced Electronics Internships : students do low/unpaid internships

- Withheld Wages in Construction : employers failing to pay staff properly
- Forced Domestic Work : abuse of domestic workers

I count four occurrences or ongoing issues that are all present in the UK, US, and indeed every country in the world to some extent. I also count four labour market issues that have absolutely nothing to do with the cost to the government of constructing a high speed railway.

Thanks for the effort though. With a bit more honest effort on your part I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of this!

for the 200th time Ma'aM.. why are you creating Fake Quotes for people..?
is this all you do.. create Lies..?

it is obvious that is your goal..
your debate is so bad you need to falsify quotes..

SAD.. but respectively true

Why do they need trains? Are that many British people traveling further from home than bicycle distance in these modern times?

2dimes wrote:Why do they need trains? Are that many British people traveling further from home than bicycle distance in these modern times?

just try to imagine building elevated high speed trains in London...



because there are never any issues with train overcrowding..

They're going to be in London?

2dimes wrote:They're going to be in London?

-->

mrswdk wrote:

The first phase of the HS2 high-speed railway between London and Birmingham will be delayed by up to five years, Transport Minister Grant Shapps says.

Oh, so not in London. That make much more sense than, "just try to imagine building elevated high speed trains in London..." doesn't it?

London already has the tube. Which I have not seen, but I suppose is the train picture you posted there?

Thanks.

NomadPatriot wrote:

mrswdk wrote:Thanks NoProblem for making an attempt to wade into a complex area of discussion. You appear to have spent a long time researching. Let me just summarise some of those points in your post for you though, to help:

NomadPatriot wrote:Forced labor in China receives remarkably little attention despite decades as the world’s factory floor.

- Brick Kiln Slavery : people abducted and forced to work in remote rural areas

- Forced Electronics Internships : students do low/unpaid internships

- Withheld Wages in Construction : employers failing to pay staff properly
- Forced Domestic Work : abuse of domestic workers

I count four occurrences or ongoing issues that are all present in the UK, US, and indeed every country in the world to some extent. I also count four labour market issues that have absolutely nothing to do with the cost to the government of constructing a high speed railway.

Thanks for the effort though. With a bit more honest effort on your part I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of this!

for the 200th time Ma'aM.. why are you creating Fake Quotes for people..?
is this all you do.. create Lies..?

it is obvious that is your goal..
your debate is so bad you need to falsify quotes..

SAD.. but respectively true

Once again, NP ignores every point of substance and resorts to ad hominem.

I think this post therefore also answers the question of whether or not NP actually has any sensible or informed views on China's One Child Policy. The answer: he doesn't.

2dimes wrote:Oh, so not in London. That make much more sense than, "just try to imagine building elevated high speed trains in London..." doesn't it?

London already has the tube. Which I have not seen, but I suppose is the train picture you posted there?

Thanks.

I think NoProblem has mistaken the highspeed railway for a rollercoaster.

I didn't post the news article saying there was a high speed rail being built between London & Birmingham. I just quoted Ma'am's comment.. not sure how 'level' Great Britain is. so the High Speed Railway would have to be raised to be level enough to be fast.. and how exactly are citizens going to get to the new convenient train if it does not go into London itself. is London going to build new tubes to the new high speed rail train.. ?

+ wouldn't anyone wanting to build a High Speed rail in today's society want it to be built in a secure manner .. so no one could tamper with the tracks or enable it to wreck..

Terrorism is a thing. unless you forgot..

Well I suppose a nectarine is like a peach without fuzz.

Where the high speed rail in China is raised, that's mostly to avoid building over/cutting in half farmland and to get it over rivers, as far as I'm aware.

The existing high speed rail in the UK (between London and Calais) runs along the ground. It's protected by fences.

( disclaimer .. this article is from 2012. it's the only one I could find with an actual photo of the route.. )..

HS2: London to Birmingham high speed rail route seen from the sky
Helicopter footage shows the approximate route to be taken by the proposed high speed rail link between London and Birmingham

opponents argue that upgrading current services would be a quicker and more cost-effective way to solve overcrowding and congestion problems and would leave much of the countryside that HS2 will run through unspoiled.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews ... e-sky.html



Looks like farmland is going to be cut in half to me... unless it's.. elevated

You said that you thought land in the UK might not be level enough and the government would need to raise its high speed rail above ground in order to ensure the trains can travel fast enough. And to avoid terrorists (lol).

I said that the UK's existing high speed rail is not raised and so there's no reason to assume its new high speed rail would need to be raised.

Now apparently you think the UK is going to raise its high speed rail in order to avoid cutting farmland in half.

I don't know where your hard-on for raised tracks is coming from but I refer you back to my point about how none of the UK's existing high speed rail is raised.

mrswdk wrote:You said that you thought land in the UK might not be level enough and the government would need to raise its high speed rail above ground in order to ensure the trains can travel fast enough. And to avoid terrorists (lol).

I said that the UK's existing high speed rail is not raised and so there's no reason to assume its new high speed rail would need to be raised.

Now apparently you think the UK is going to raise its high speed rail in order to avoid cutting farmland in half.

I don't know where your hard-on for raised tracks is coming from but I refer you back to my point about how none of the UK's existing high speed rail is raised.

-->

mrswdk wrote:Where the high speed rail in China is raised, that's mostly to avoid building over/cutting in half farmland and to get it over rivers, as far as I'm aware.

The existing high speed rail in the UK (between London and Calais) runs along the ground. It's protected by fences.

Therefore, the UK will definitely copy everything that China does and will do so for all the exact same reasons?

Once again, NoProblem is in awe of superior Chinese engineering. Now he is so convinced of Chinese dominance that he cannot understand why other countries in the world would not copy everything Chinese engineers do to the exact letter. He may have a point!

We're still waiting to hear what you think the Chinese government is going 'to do' to Hong Kong families that have more than one child. Bury them under a high speed railway line?