USA land of liberty

[jimboston]

They have no right to become activists

They quite literally do. It's called the First Amendment. The constitution is for everyone in the US.

OK. So they can talk and we can revoke their Student Visa.
What’s the problem?

Also… I’m not 100% sure the Constitution applies to non-citizens the same way it applies to citizens.
Clearly there are rights, privileges, and duties that apply to citizens that don’t apply to non-citizens.
(Not debateable.)
So, I’m not sure activism… especially in support of terrorist organizations… falls in there.

That’s moot though… we aren’t preventing this person from speaking.
We are just saying… “Well you came here on a Student Visa to study and learn… and now you are doing things UNRELATED to studying and learning… so your Student Visa is revoked.”
Please explain how that is some violation of the Constitution.
There is NO Constitutional Right to a Student Visa for Foreign Nationals.

You clearly don’t intend to reply to this point… as you have no ability to refute it.
(Prediction… Ralf will ignore this point.)

[jimboston]

Why the f*ck should I (or any American) give a crap about what YOU (or any non-US Citizen) thinks about our immigration policy?

I DON’T.

I personally think Trump is going too far with some of the deportations. At the same time I agree our borders have been too porous and we’ve not done enough to deport unwanted/unwelcome immigrants for the last decade plus. So it was bound to change. I’m sure it’ll settle down once Trump gets his publicity.

We (US Citizens) can debate and decide on how WE want to handle our immigration and we shouldn’t (and I don’t) care what YOU think. Stop buying from us… don’t care. Stop consuming our media… don’t care. Stop relying on our protection… don’t care. England is becoming New Palestine anyway… so keep going that way buddy. Pretty soon you won’t be welcome in parts of London.

If I invite someone into my house, and they start talking about how the Yankees are the best team in Baseball… I have every Right to kick that ass out of my fucking house. Period. No debate.

USA

USA

USA

USA

f*ck YEAH.

JP just called me a “Left Wing Lunatic” and now you’re implying I’m an ultra conservative nationalist?

Interesting.

[kennyp72]

Why the f*ck should I (or any American) give a crap about what YOU (or any non-US Citizen) thinks about our immigration policy?

I DON’T.

I personally think Trump is going too far with some of the deportations. At the same time I agree our borders have been too porous and we’ve not done enough to deport unwanted/unwelcome immigrants for the last decade plus. So it was bound to change. I’m sure it’ll settle down once Trump gets his publicity.

We (US Citizens) can debate and decide on how WE want to handle our immigration and we shouldn’t (and I don’t) care what YOU think. Stop buying from us… don’t care. Stop consuming our media… don’t care. Stop relying on our protection… don’t care. England is becoming New Palestine anyway… so keep going that way buddy. Pretty soon you won’t be welcome in parts of London.

If I invite someone into my house, and they start talking about how the Yankees are the best team in Baseball… I have every Right to kick that ass out of my fucking house. Period. No debate.

USA

USA

USA

USA

f*ck YEAH.

JP just called me a “Left Wing Lunatic” and now you’re implying I’m an ultra conservative nationalist?

Interesting.

You got that from 3 letters, an expletive and the word 'yeah'?

Interesting.

[riskllama]

Can't you just stay TF away? None of your accounts bring anything positive to this site. Fuc&#$g NPC.

SMH

c'mon man, you obviously already have these people foed - is it really that hard to not click the button that lets you see what they posted? harden up, you're a big boy... . also, jimboston wins this thread.

[saxitoxin]

The Bill of Rights is a futile authority for the alien seeking admission for the first time to these shores. But, once an alien lawfully enters and resides in this country, he becomes invested with the rights guaranteed by the Constitution to all people within our borders. Such rights include those protected by the First and the Fifth Amendments and by the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. None of these provisions acknowledges any distinction between citizens and resident aliens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridges_v._Wixon

[Pack Rat]

Can't you just stay TF away? None of your accounts bring anything positive to this site. Fuc&#$g NPC.

SMH

c'mon man, you obviously already have these people foed - is it really that hard to not click the button that lets you see what they posted? harden up, you're a big boy... . also, jimboston wins this thread.

+1

[saxitoxin]

ralf was away because he had to take time off to catch-up on the first two seasons of the white lotus in advance of the third season debut

he's very bourgeois

[bigtoughralf]

I've been watching Severance, actually.

I was looking for tips on how to help my 'offline-ie' forget every interaction my online-ie has with CC poster saxitoxin.

[Dukasaur]

I'm rewatching Game of Thrones.

When you play the Game of Thrones, you win, or you die.

[jimboston]

You got that from 3 letters, an expletive and the word 'yeah'?

Interesting.

Maybe I’m inferring it… it helps my narrative to do so.

[KoolBak]

Can't you just stay TF away? None of your accounts bring anything positive to this site. Fuc&#$g NPC.

SMH

c'mon man, you obviously already have these people foed - is it really that hard to not click the button that lets you see what they posted? harden up, you're a big boy... . also, jimboston wins this thread.

I don't understand your post, my apologies. Are you saying I DID click? And then I posted after reading their bile? Uh huh.

Roll your eyes at me you little bitch, I'll slap those eyes oot yo hed

[2dimes]

ralf was away because he had to take time off to catch-up on the first two seasons of the white lotus in advance of the third season debut

he's very bourgeois

It was nice of you to have television with streaming service in the "remote shack".

[jimboston]

The Bill of Rights is a futile authority for the alien seeking admission for the first time to these shores. But, once an alien lawfully enters and resides in this country, he becomes invested with the rights guaranteed by the Constitution to all people within our borders. Such rights include those protected by the First and the Fifth Amendments and by the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. None of these provisions acknowledges any distinction between citizens and resident aliens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridges_v._Wixon

So this clearly means the Constitution DOES NOT apply to people who entered illegally.
Thanks for this link.

Now let’s make an interesting legal argument… what if some foreign national entered under false pretenses?
That would (IMHO) qualify as illegal entry.
So if someone entered as a Student under a Student Visa… and then that person skipped classes and attended rallies and protests… one could argue that they entered under false pretense, and therefore entered illegally. Because they were claiming to come here to study, but instead really came here to protest.

OK… Good to Know.

It’s moot anyway… there is NO Constitutional Right to a Visa.
Period.

[bigtoughralf]

The Bill of Rights is a futile authority for the alien seeking admission for the first time to these shores. But, once an alien lawfully enters and resides in this country, he becomes invested with the rights guaranteed by the Constitution to all people within our borders. Such rights include those protected by the First and the Fifth Amendments and by the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. None of these provisions acknowledges any distinction between citizens and resident aliens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridges_v._Wixon

So this clearly means the Constitution DOES NOT apply to people who entered illegally.
Thanks for this link.

Now let’s make an interesting legal argument… what if some foreign national entered under false pretenses?

Here's another interesting legal argument... what if some foreign national was actually a cyborg assassin sent to the US by al-Qaeda to murder CEOs of fast food companies?

[jusplay4fun]

The Bill of Rights is a futile authority for the alien seeking admission for the first time to these shores. But, once an alien lawfully enters and resides in this country, he becomes invested with the rights guaranteed by the Constitution to all people within our borders. Such rights include those protected by the First and the Fifth Amendments and by the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. None of these provisions acknowledges any distinction between citizens and resident aliens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridges_v._Wixon

So this clearly means the Constitution DOES NOT apply to people who entered illegally.

I agree with JimB on this point. BUT I am not a lawyer, so perhaps one on CC can render an opinion on this matter.

[bigtoughralf]

Wrong thread. This is about people who are legally resident in the US.

[jimboston]

Now let’s make an interesting legal argument… what if some foreign national entered under false pretenses?

Here's another interesting legal argument... what if some foreign national was actually a cyborg assassin sent to the US by al-Qaeda to murder CEOs of fast food companies?

So foreign nationals enter the U.S. under false pretenses ALL THE TIME.
It’s just a literal fact.

I make a point using actual plausible/ realistic scenarios.
Then Ralf tries to make a joke? point? IDK what… using a science fiction scenario.

If it was a joke, Ralf, it fell flat.
If you are trying to make some point, you failed.

… but hey… you keep doing you.
You’ve still failed to make any point in this thread.

It’s kinda funny a guy from the UK lecturing us about Freedom of Speech. Meanwhile in the streets of London you can waive a Palestinian Flag all day… but try waiving the UK flag and you are likely to get arrested for causing a disturbance or being racist in some way.

[jimboston]

Wrong thread. This is about people who are legally resident in the US.

i mean the student was legally here… but then her Visa was legally revoked.
Your point?

[bigtoughralf]

Her visa was revoked in response to her exercising her First Amendment rights.

It's not specifically a US thing, if that makes you feel any better. Germany just recently deported several people (including two Irish citizens) for participating in a Palestine protest, despite none of those people being criminally charged with anything.

US and Germany are just super cucked by their Israeli overlords.

[kennyp72]

Now let’s make an interesting legal argument… what if some foreign national entered under false pretenses?

Here's another interesting legal argument... what if some foreign national was actually a cyborg assassin sent to the US by al-Qaeda to murder CEOs of fast food companies?

So foreign nationals enter the U.S. under false pretenses ALL THE TIME.
It’s just a literal fact.

I make a point using actual plausible/ realistic scenarios.
Then Ralf tries to make a joke? point? IDK what… using a science fiction scenario.

If it was a joke, Ralf, it fell flat.
If you are trying to make some point, you failed.

… but hey… you keep doing you.
You’ve still failed to make any point in this thread.

It’s kinda funny a guy from the UK lecturing us about Freedom of Speech. Meanwhile in the streets of London you can waive a Palestinian Flag all day… but try waiving the UK flag and you are likely to get arrested for causing a disturbance or being racist in some way.

You have some really bad information.

I'm shocked.

[jimboston]

Her visa was revoked in response to her exercising her First Amendment rights.

It's not specifically a US thing, if that makes you feel any better. Germany just recently deported several people (including two Irish citizens) for participating in a Palestine protest, despite none of those people being criminally charged with anything.

US and Germany are just super cucked by their Israeli overlords.

Her Visa was revoked because she misled us into her intentions when coming here. On her Visa application she would’ve claimed to be coming here to study…instead she chose to be a political activist. Getting political in a country where she has no right to vote, focusing on political activism instead of her studies.

Seems like a reasonable reason to revoke a Student Visa IMHO.
In this case, since we are talking about the USA, MY opinion as a citizen matters infinitely more than yours does.
If an American wants to debate and have a different opinion that fine… but your opinion on our internal immigration policies means SHIT.

I would hope that, if on her Visa Application, she gave her reasons for coming here as “student and political activist” the her Visa would’ve been denied. I hope that anyway… again IMHO it should’ve been.

… but finally… there’s NO Constitutional Right to a Visa. So the “why” of it really is moot. No Constitutional Rights were violated, no laws were violated.

[jimboston]

Now let’s make an interesting legal argument… what if some foreign national entered under false pretenses?

Here's another interesting legal argument... what if some foreign national was actually a cyborg assassin sent to the US by al-Qaeda to murder CEOs of fast food companies?

So foreign nationals enter the U.S. under false pretenses ALL THE TIME.
It’s just a literal fact.

I make a point using actual plausible/ realistic scenarios.
Then Ralf tries to make a joke? point? IDK what… using a science fiction scenario.

If it was a joke, Ralf, it fell flat.
If you are trying to make some point, you failed.

… but hey… you keep doing you.
You’ve still failed to make any point in this thread.

It’s kinda funny a guy from the UK lecturing us about Freedom of Speech. Meanwhile in the streets of London you can waive a Palestinian Flag all day… but try waiving the UK flag and you are likely to get arrested for causing a disturbance or being racist in some way.

You have some really bad information.

I'm shocked.

Oh? In what way was I misinformed?

[bigtoughralf]

Her visa was revoked in response to her exercising her First Amendment rights.

It's not specifically a US thing, if that makes you feel any better. Germany just recently deported several people (including two Irish citizens) for participating in a Palestine protest, despite none of those people being criminally charged with anything.

US and Germany are just super cucked by their Israeli overlords.

Her Visa was revoked because she misled us into her intentions when coming here. On her Visa application she would’ve claimed to be coming here to study…instead she chose to be a political activist. Getting political in a country where she has no right to vote

She does, however, have the right to freedom of assembly and to petition the government. It's the First Amendment brah, look it up.

I'm not sure you understand what a visa is for. Do you also think that because her visa makes no mention of grocery shopping that she isn't allowed to go to Walmart?

[mookiemcgee]

As far as this student goes, she has no legal case. Countries don't need reasons to revoke temporary visas of non-citizens. As long as they can prove she is who her visa says she is it's game over. She has every right to come here and protest with fear of imprisonment (that's what the BOR guarantees), and the US gov't has every right to revoke her visa and send her back to her country of citizenship for any reason or non-reason they may want to provide. She can then, from her home country petition the gov't and start a court case if she thinks laws were broken in her deportation. All this talk about coming under false pretenses is political rhetoric, it's not legally meaningful in her case (IMO as a non-lawyer who has alot of immigration case experience).

Due process is what actually matters. Either due process exists or it doesn't. If any individual isn't afforded a chance to prove they are legally here, then how you interpret the bill of rights and constitution doesn't actually matter much. In her case the gov't can prove she's here legally, but they ultimately they can pull the visa and make her here illegally for any reason under US law. the rounding up of undocumented people without a court proceeding to prove who they are is a way bigger legal quagmire.

If the US govt can send americans to overseas prisons (mistakenly or not) without being given a chance to prove they are American in an American court, fighting over what words mean is pretty irrelevant because the bill of rights is dead.

I'm not touching EU countries deporting other EU passport holders, i have no clue how that is supposed to work.

[jimboston]

She does, however, have the right to freedom of assembly and to petition the government. It's the First Amendment brah, look it up.

I'm not sure you understand what a visa is for. Do you also think that because her visa makes no mention of grocery shopping that she isn't allowed to go to Walmart?

She can assemble and petition the gov’t… and the gov’t can revoke her Visa.

I’m not sure you understand the idea that she has Zero Right to a Student Visa… and that you (as a person who is NOT a Citizen of the USA) has zero influence over who we (citizens of the USA) choose to allow to legally enter our country.

She can petition to have her Visa reinstated. Good luck to her.

She can speak and protest all she wants… from her home country.
We have NO obligation to allow non-citizens to involve themselves in our internal politics.
There is NO Constitutional Right for non-citizens to a Visa.

Where is the confusion?