TLO 2009 [Winners: Generation One]

[Lindax]

Technically the quad game is the decider only if they win it. Otherwise you could say that our two doubles victories were the decider. In this case we have won 5 of 8 games and are on track to win the quad game as well giving us 6 of 9 games. Now despite winning 6 of 9 we have to play two more and if we lose them we lose the week despite winning over half the games and winning the original quad game anyway? This does not seem like an accurate gauge of who should win. If going in there is a tie or the team that won less games wins the quad I can see this being applied, but this seems wrong in the instance. I will post on the forum as well. What do you think Serbia since it is your team that is effected this week, but you could easily loose on the same technicality next week?

It's the decider anyway dustin. Both teams need to win it to win the round. Have you read my explanation?

There are many ways to decide which team wins. The way I have decided to do it has been on display in the first post ever since I started this. Because there was some confusion about it I posted an explanation.

I am willing to change the way we do it, but that will have to be a unanimous (and very quick) decision by all involved. I don't see that happening though, precisely because there are so many different ways to do it. What I certainly will do is take all of the suggestions and remarks into account for the next edition of this tournament and maybe come up with a "better" way to do it.

Lx

[Lufsen75]

show: TEAMS and PLAYERS

Tournament started, January 24

I wonder if this means that you have to have this rank at start of every round or if it is enough when you started the tournament? I think that should change otherwise so you can play.

[Lindax]

show: TEAMS and PLAYERS

Tournament started, January 24

I wonder if this means that you have to have this rank at start of every round or if it is enough when you started the tournament? I think that should change otherwise so you can play.

Hi Lufsen,

The 1600 score you needed at sign up, if you go under that you can still play (Obviously the general idea is to let officers play as much as possible). The only exception is if your team cannot assign a minimum of 2 officers for any given round. In that case you still have the option of adding a player to your team who is an officer, or in the worst case, change a low ranked player for a new player who is an officer. Please run any changes in the team by me first.

I hope that clarifies it.

Lx

[wrexham]

What I certainly will do is take all of the suggestions and remarks into account for the next edition of this tournament and maybe come up with a "better" way to do it.

Personally I would have every game being worth just one point.
So, if you have an odd number games like you do ( 4 singles, 4 doubles & 1 quad = 9 ) there will always be a winning team and no need for any play off's.

Wrex

[Lindax]

What I certainly will do is take all of the suggestions and remarks into account for the next edition of this tournament and maybe come up with a "better" way to do it.

Personally I would have every game being worth just one point.
So, if you have an odd number games like you do ( 4 singles, 4 doubles & 1 quad = 9 ) there will always be a winning team and no need for any play off's.

Wrex

Thanks Wrex. Keeping it simple always seems to work best. I will certainly keep that in mind.

Lx

[jpcloet]

Agreed, like Dustin800 said this just feels weird to take 3/4 of the singles, 2/4 dubs, the quads game for 11-5 win, yet having to play 2 more quads to confirm the win.

[Lindax]

To all players in this tournament,

Hereby I would like to apologize for the confusion about the application of the points of quad games and the effects of it on winning or losing a round to the opponent. I hope that by now all of you understand how it works. I also admit that it was probably not the best way to go about it and I will change the set up for next time. Thanks to those of you who gave me suggestions on this issue and I hope you will all understand that I cannot change it now, after some of the first round games have already been decided.
One thing I would like you all to consider: We are playing 9 rounds, and the way I have set it up affects all teams the same. One round it may work against your team, but in another round it may work in your team’s favor.

I sincerely hope we can put this issue behind us and get on with the tournament and, above all, enjoy it. There are only a few rounds left to play in the first round and the games for the second round will be sent out today.

Results, scores and standings are updated almost daily, see the tournament thread:

viewtopic.php?f=91&t=75528#p1806401

Again, my apologies for disappointing some of you and any other inconveniences. Hoping for your understanding,

Lx

[Bones2484]

I say fix it now and restart the tournament. It's only one round in.

You're just going to get more and more complaints as it progresses. To me, I've already stopped caring (but I'll keep playing since I signed up).

edit: I'm even fine taking a loss in round 1, even though we shouldn't have, if it means fixing the corrupt scoring system for later rounds.

[Chariot of Fire]

Lindax,

No apologies necessary mate - I think it's very straightforward and the scoring was made clear from the outset.

This is a tourney whose essence is team play - hence a squad of six and an emphasis on the quad game worth 4 points. You can see immediately which type of game you need to be strong in - the team quad. All too often in singles you get stiffed by a bad drop or starting second, so this tourney has taken into account that winning 4 of your 4 singles isn't that great. It's simply a point to a winning player, same as a quad awards a point to each of the winning members (theoretically).

It's a level playing field for all of us so don't look to change anything.

I've stood up from a poker table with less money than I started, but I don't look at the other player and say "But I won more hands than you did!". It's winning the important ones that matters most, and it's no different in this tourney.

Be grateful for the chance to play best-of-3 if you have to. Maybe in the next round it'll work to your advantage. The cream always rises to the top in the end

See you in the final

CoF

[Bones2484]

No apologies necessary mate - I think it's very straightforward and the scoring was made clear from the outset.

Of course it was, no arguments there. But that doesn't mean it can't be fixed. He realizes and admits the "mistake".

All too often in singles you get stiffed by a bad drop or starting second,

You're right. It's much better to have your teammates eliminated in Round 1 in a crappy map like New World even when you can deploy them everything you have to try to keep them up.

This is a tourney whose essence is team play - hence a squad of six and an emphasis on the quad game worth 4 points. You can see immediately which type of game you need to be strong in - the team quad.

Again, no arguments in your logic. But why have the other games then? You do realize that if you don't win the Quads game, you have to win either 4 singles and 3 doubles, or 4 doubles and 1 single? Might as well drop the useless crap and just play best of three quads. That's all that really matters anyways.

[knighthawk]

imo i'm not a fan of the scoring system but i knew how it was when i joined, it doesn't take a mathematician or playing through a round to realize the importance of the quads game, you should of realized it when you signed up for the tourney. the only problem i'm having is the confusion on playing 3 quads games, the way it sounded when i first signed up is if the dubs and singles points were even then it would be a best of a 3 and this confusion isn't really that much a problem to me. although i do wish the quads games were played together for speed and so the other team doesn't know the strategy you used on the first for the other 2

[ralphcptc]

Lindax,

No apologies necessary mate - I think it's very straightforward and the scoring was made clear from the outset.

This is a tourney whose essence is team play - hence a squad of six and an emphasis on the quad game worth 4 points. You can see immediately which type of game you need to be strong in - the team quad. All too often in singles you get stiffed by a bad drop or starting second, so this tourney has taken into account that winning 4 of your 4 singles isn't that great. It's simply a point to a winning player, same as a quad awards a point to each of the winning members (theoretically).

It's a level playing field for all of us so don't look to change anything.

I've stood up from a poker table with less money than I started, but I don't look at the other player and say "But I won more hands than you did!". It's winning the important ones that matters most, and it's no different in this tourney.

Be grateful for the chance to play best-of-3 if you have to. Maybe in the next round it'll work to your advantage. The cream always rises to the top in the end

See you in the final

CoF

Thank you for your comments CoF,

I would like to reemphasize that running a tournament especially one this complex with number of quality players is a daunting task. I commend Lindax for spearheading the effort.

The rules were spelled out clearly. Once the play began perhaps another way may have surfaced which would make some players more comfortable or would even improve some of the flow of the tournament. However, changing the rules in the middle of a tournament to accommodate a few or change the flow of the tournament may skew the tourney toward one team and away from another. The rules should remain unchanged so the tournament will finish as it was intended, to find the best team among the participants.

imo i'm not a fan of the scoring system but i knew how it was when i joined, it doesn't take a mathematician or playing through a round to realize the importance of the quads game, you should of realized it when you signed up for the tourney. the only problem i'm having is the confusion on playing 3 quads games, the way it sounded when i first signed up is if the dubs and singles points were even then it would be a best of a 3 and this confusion isn't really that much a problem to me. although i do wish the quads games were played together for speed and so the other team doesn't know the strategy you used on the first for the other 2

I do like the idea of going ahead and playing all three quads to keep strategy a secret. Lindax and I have discussed this point at length. All will be played but unless there is a need for the other two quads games. The designated quads game will be the only one counts for points.

[Lindax]

Thank you all for your thoughts and input. Bones, I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but we are not going to change the scoring now or restart the tournament.

We decided to make one slight change because it will work out better time wise (thanks for the suggestion folks): We will start all 3 quad games together with the singles and doubles. The first game will be marked "Quad 1" and the other two will be marked "Quad best of 3". The latter two will only count if applicable. The only thing that can happen with that system is that you play 2 quad games you may not have needed to play.

The round 1 scores and results will be updated tonight, see page 1.

The games and password for round 2 have been sent to the Team Captains. Please sign up promptly, remember that there is a time limit.

Thank you all and we hope you'll enjoy the rest of the tournament!

Lx

[MrMoody]

Thank you all for your thoughts and input. Bones, I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but we are not going to change the scoring now or restart the tournament.

We decided to make one slight change because it will work out better time wise (thanks for the suggestion folks): We will start all 3 quad games together with the singles and doubles. The first game will be marked "Quad 1" and the other two will be marked "Quad best of 3". The latter two will only count if applicable. The only thing that can happen with that system is that you play 2 quad games you may not have needed to play.

The round 1 scores and results will be updated tonight, see page 1.

The games and password for round 2 have been sent to the Team Captains. Please sign up promptly, remember that there is a time limit.

Thank you all and we hope you'll enjoy the rest of the tournament!

Lx

2 quad games per round that could be as many as 16 total. These are quad games your asking teams to play that may not even count in the point system of this turny. In the end it will make the game load on players 20% larger.

Each round consists of 4 singles games (1v1), 4 doubles games and 1 quad game

It was clrear from the first post we would be playing one quad game. Only if its the tie breaker would it be a best of three

[Chariot of Fire]

OK, I'm not crazy either about the new idea of having to play 3 quad games from the outset, with one designated 'Quad 1' which goes towards the points total. You have now effectively added two additional games to the rota which may not even be necessary to play. Quads games take much longer to complete, so this certainly won't speed up the process.

If I may make a suggestion...... Set up all the singles and doubles, then only once a result is clear (i.e. there will be margin of four points or less, or the lead is such that the losing team cannot get within four points) then set up the quads, knowing there needs to be either one quad game or a best of three. Surely that's a more sensible approach? This system will save a lot of unnecessary (time-consuming) games being played and will greatly reduce your admin. There will be no need to set up 3 quads and designate one of them 'Quad 1' which carries the points. If it goes to a best of three then simply award the 4 points to the team that wins more than one of them, o/wise u are getting into the realm of two teams level on points after singles/doubs and then one team wins two quads but lose overall because it wasn't the 'Quad 1' game which caried the 4 points. The best of 3 is meaningless under that system.

Hope this all makes sense. It does to me. Cheers

[amazzony]

I waited with my post because I wanted to make sure it's me and not the fever talking. I actually don't have much to say. I see all 3 sides of this - there are those who are satisfied with things, those who aren't and third party is organiser(s). I've been on each side and I know that whatever gets decided won't satisfy everybody so I just want to say that whatever the organisers decide, I accept it and respect their judgment because in the end they are putting a lot of effort into this thing and those who don't wish to play can always drop out and find a more suitable tournament to play in. Currently, I don't see many (if any) tournaments for teams that are made as well as this one (lets forget the scoring instability for a sec) and where organisers care so much about the tournament and wish to run it until the end. So, lets stay polite and get along; throw in ideas but don't force organisers to use them.

I hope I can say it from my whole team (no, Serb, I don't want to take away your captain statues ) that we are grateful that we can play in the tournament and hopefully things will get settled and next rounds will go smoother If they don't agree with me then I'll find a way to charm them

[Lindax]

Oh boy (sigh). I know by now that we cannot make everybody happy and I guess I'll have to live with that.

Ok, the decision to set up the 3 quads from the start was made because it makes the rounds end more timely and we avoid rounds overlapping each other for a rather long time. If that means the some teams will play 2 quads that are not necessary, so be it. The majority of teams will end up having to play them anyway.

Yes, CoF, you make sense and we discussed the options, amongst which the one you bring forward. We decided for the current option in the interest of the flow of the tournament and ease of admin

Lx

Haha, we posted this at the same time amazzony

Thanks!

[ralphcptc]

Tournament Game: TLO 2009 - Round 1
Game 4099619

ralphcptc wins

[Lindax]

Results, scores and standings updated.

For those whom have not signed up for their games of round 2: You have the rest of today to say so. Team captains please make sure your players sign up a.s.a.p.

Good luck in round 2 all!

Lx

[MrMoody]

My team will require more then today's deadline to join there games. Sorry but this is from your choice to change the Schedule. When you added two more quad games I needed time to consult with my team. Why the big push to rush this turny from the start? Your overly concerned with how long this turny will take to finish.

[Lindax]

My team will require more then today's deadline to join there games. Sorry but this is from your choice to change the Schedule. When you added two more quad games I needed time to consult with my team. Why the big push to rush this turny from the start? Your overly concerned with how long this turny will take to finish.

First of all: What do you need to consult with your team about? All they need to do is join the games you assigned them for

Second: I simply don't want this tournament to drag on longer than necessary. If everything runs smoothly it will already take at least 4 months. From experience I know that if one does not stay on the ball and "push", it can easily take another couple of months.

I hope that answers your questions,

Lx

[Gilligan]

G1 II wins Game 4099664

[Shatners Bassoon]

Crouching Beaver wins Game 4182743

[Chariot of Fire]

All our Rd.2 games are up and running - in fact some results are coming in already.

[Tripitaka]

Round 2 - G1 II wins Game 4182738