TLO 2012 IV [Winners: Harem Kings]

[Rodion]

Oh, I think I got it. You're pissed at Francisco and Epitaph. Fair enough.

[Denise]

I would have preferred winning those games by playing them. Hopefully, this won't keep happening.

[agentcom]

I think Lindax made the right call. Rules are rules and leniency won't teach (most) people not to repeat their mistakes.

I agree completely, and I applaud his decision. Especially in a tournament this involved for the TO, when the only requirement for players is "join your games", I wouldn't show leniency either.

+1

Sucks for everybody that's not gaining points from it, but that's the way it's gotta be.

[Lindax]

Thanks for your support folks. I don't like it anymore than you do, but I have to draw the line somewhere.

Lx

[agentcom]

HardAttack: (Lx I hope you don't mind this violation of your prohibition on this topic)

I am extremely embarrassed by this. I had confused HardAttack's post with something else in the thread. I knew that HA was the one who's post was the one that was ... errrr ... somewhat confusing. However, when I saw MasterFenrir's post about the matter, I had forgotten who said what.

I sincerely only meant my initial post as a joke, but in the heat of the moment responding to MF, I completely forgot what had happened in HA's initial post. I responded as if he had said something that he did not.

I have not been back to this thread since that time and didn't reread the thread even when I responded to HA in another forum. This was unacceptable on my part. I wish to publicly offer my humblest apologies to HardAttack for my language toward him. HardAttack, you were not being a dick. Far from it, you were being very gracious toward the TO. I completely had your post confused with something else.

This was a mistake caused by my not reading back through the thread when I angrily responded to MF. I am sorry.

[slickstick]

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Round 2 is ongoing. Unfortunately some players were unable to join their games within 48 hours and have cost their teams dearly in forfeited games. Instead of dealing with it behind the scenes, as I used to do, I'm going to post the info here, maybe that helps avoiding this in the future:

Epitaph1 and francisco969 from team TNC did not join their 5 games, thus giving team TOFUckingood 14 points.

peanutsdad from team Mythers did not join his game, resulting in 2 points for team Beef Leftovers.

kid moe from team The Warriors did not join his game, resulting in 3 points for team Memento Mori.

Crash_22 from Team Sweden did not join his games, thus giving 10 points to team Tutti Frutti.

moonchild from team King Arthur's Bovine did not join his game, resulting in 1 points for team As usual.

3 Other players joined minutes before the deadline....

I don't enjoy doing this, however, I have given enough warning that this tournament would be relentless.

For the Schedule, Maps & Settings and other Round Info: Click here

Lx

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Hi Lindax

I would like to apologize for the failure to join by kid moe, i will make more of an effort to monitor my team.

Slickstick

[Lindax]

:oops:

HardAttack: (Lx I hope you don't mind this violation of your prohibition on this topic)

I am extremely embarrassed by this. I had confused HardAttack's post with something else in the thread. I knew that HA was the one who's post was the one that was ... errrr ... somewhat confusing. However, when I saw MasterFenrir's post about the matter, I had forgotten who said what.

I sincerely only meant my initial post as a joke, but in the heat of the moment responding to MF, I completely forgot what had happened in HA's initial post. I responded as if he had said something that he did not.

I have not been back to this thread since that time and didn't reread the thread even when I responded to HA in another forum. This was unacceptable on my part. I wish to publicly offer my humblest apologies to HardAttack for my language toward him. HardAttack, you were not being a dick. Far from it, you were being very gracious toward the TO. I completely had your post confused with something else.

This was a mistake caused by my not reading back through the thread when I angrily responded to MF. I am sorry.

How can I not allow an apology?

Lx

[Lindax]

Hi Lindax

I would like to apologize for the failure to join by kid moe, i will make more of an effort to monitor my team.

Slickstick

Apology accepted. I know you're normally very much on the ball.

Thanks,

Lx

[Chariot of Fire]

What method will you implement for assigning a player from each team for the 'Extra Games' (deadline 20th May) if you have not received any details? Default pick of the team captain?

[Lindax]

What method will you implement for assigning a player from each team for the 'Extra Games' (deadline 20th May) if you have not received any details? Default pick of the team captain?

Question 3 in Q&A in the first post:

What happens if there is no player assigned for a game? Answer: I will assign a player or players from the team randomly.

For the extra games I'll try to send a PM to the Team Captains in the week before the deadline. I was going to do that today, actually.

Lx

[Lindax]

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The game rosters for Round 3 have been posted, no changes will be allowed from now on.

Round 3 will start May 20, coming Sunday.

For the Schedule, Maps & Settings and other Round Info: Click here

Lx

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[NanoTheGreat]

Here is an update on the finished Round 1- Agents vs TNC

S1: Game 10959267 -TNC
S2: Game 10959291 -TNC
D1: Game 10959311 -Agents
D2: Game 10959337 -Agents
D3: Game 10959348 -TNC
D4: Game 10959363 -TNC
T1: Game 10959375 -Agents
T2: Game 10959387 -Agents
Q1: Game 10959399 -Agents

Final score:
14- Agents
6- TNC

[Lindax]

Here is an update on the finished Round 1- Agents vs TNC

S1: Game 10959267 -TNC
S2: Game 10959291 -TNC
D1: Game 10959311 -Agents
D2: Game 10959337 -Agents
D3: Game 10959348 -TNC
D4: Game 10959363 -TNC
T1: Game 10959375 -Agents
T2: Game 10959387 -Agents
Q1: Game 10959399 -Agents

Final score:
14- Agents
6- TNC

Thanks!

Lx

[drunkmonkey]

Round 1: DYNASTY - Beef Leftovers [Complete]

S1: Game 10959268 - DYNASTY
S2: Game 10959293 - DYNASTY
D1: Game 10959313 - Beef Leftovers
D2: Game 10959338 - DYNASTY
D3: Game 10959349 - Beef Leftovers
D4: Game 10959365 - Beef Leftovers
T1: Game 10959376 - DYNASTY
T2: Game 10959388 - Beef Leftovers
Q1: Game 10959401 - DYNASTY

Final score:
11 - DYNASTY
9 - Beef Leftovers

[Lindax]

Round 1: DYNASTY - Beef Leftovers [Complete]

S1: Game 10959268 - DYNASTY
S2: Game 10959293 - DYNASTY
D1: Game 10959313 - Beef Leftovers
D2: Game 10959338 - DYNASTY
D3: Game 10959349 - Beef Leftovers
D4: Game 10959365 - Beef Leftovers
T1: Game 10959376 - DYNASTY
T2: Game 10959388 - Beef Leftovers
Q1: Game 10959401 - DYNASTY

Final score:
11 - DYNASTY
9 - Beef Leftovers

Thanks! I'll post the Round 1 results as soon as the last 2 games are over....

Lx

[alaskanassassin]

Hey Lindax, maybe I missed this, but I see Dust Bowl in round 9 in N.A. and also in Round 10 in History. Are we playing the map twice?

[Lindax]

Hey Lindax, maybe I missed this, but I see Dust Bowl in round 9 in N.A. and also in Round 10 in History. Are we playing the map twice?

That's entirely possible.

Lx

[Master Fenrir]

HardAttack, you were not being a dick...This was a mistake caused by my not reading back through the thread when I angrily responded to MF. I am sorry.

That's why I said what I said. I didn't see how HA was being a dick, so I thought you were being a dick. It's all good.


Round 1: Harem Kings vs. Memento Mori
S1: forfeit - Harem Kings
S2: Game 10959302 - Memento Mori
D1: Game 10959317 - Harem Kings
D2: forfeit - Harem Kings
D3: Game 10959352 - Harem Kings
D4: Game 10959370 - Harem Kings
T1: forfeit - Harem Kings
T2: Game 10959392 - Harem Kings
Q1: forfeit - Harem Kings

SCORE: Harem Kings (19) vs. Memento Mori (1)

[drunkmonkey]

Sorry if this has been answered, but are there limitations how many Extra Games a person may play?

[Lindax]

Sorry if this has been answered, but are there limitations how many Extra Games a person may play?

No limitations. You'll need to assign 6 players in total, but it can be the same player for all 6 if you like.

Lx

[benga]

As I understood it, there is no GA medal for extra games, but those points go for MVP medal?

[Lindax]

As I understood it, there is no GA medal for extra games, but those points go for MVP medal?

Indeed:

Note: The extra games will count towards the General Achievement Medals for the individual players.

Lx

[Chariot of Fire]

As I understood it, there is no GA medal for extra games, but those points go for MVP medal?

Indeed:

Note: The extra games will count towards the General Achievement Medals for the individual players.

Lx

OK, this is confusing the issue a bit. If the extra games (that really have nothing to do with 'team' as the title 'TLO' implies) count towards the MVP award then the formula in the rules needs amending.

The same player cannot play more than 1 singles match, 2 doubles matches, 2 triples matches and the quads match

That means one player may play up to 6 games in each set, OK....that's clear.

Played a minimum of 50% of the possible total amount of games a player can participate in (45 games)

This is taken from the rules governing the MVP award. If there are 15 rounds and a player may participate in 6 games per round, then a minimum of 50% = 45 games he must have played in. However, if the 'extra rounds' count towards the MVP award - and there are 16 of them - then theoretically a player wishing to be eligible for the MVP must also consider those games. Thus the formula is (6 x 15) + 16 = 106, x 50% = 53. This is therefore not 45 as written in the rules.

Of course it's the TO's prerogative, but I fail to see how these extra games should count towards the MVP when the points earned from them really have no bearing on the team score (and thus its standing in the league table). It means a player such as Rodion (4,185pts) who could easily be a candidate for MVP would potentially have to enter the extra games and put all those points on the line in Assassin & Terminator games. It may not just be Rodion - I'm thinking of myself here too!

And how many points are awarded for these extra games? How do they compare with points earned in the regular TLO games? Is MVP calculated on wins minus losses, or points won minus points lost? And why choose Terminator games? How do you determine the winner? Is it last man standing (so if 1 player eliminates everyone else bar one but then gets eliminated by that last man it's tough luck?). Terminator seems pretty unfair to anyone with a decent rank as it's well-known he becomes an immediate target for the lesser ranks coz of the points they'll gain. There's really no incentive to join the extra games, which is a shame.

So....quite a few questions there Rob, sorry. The main one is - If extra games count towards MVP then 50% of all games a player could participate in would equal 53, right? And these 53 could all be played in regular TLO games (no extras) right? Which would mean in 8 rounds of the regular tourney a player would have to join 4 games and not 3 (and may join just 3 games in the remaining 7 rounds) to get to that magic figure of 53 without having to enter 50% (i.e. 8 ) of the extra games, which would seem a bit extreme/unfair.

[Lindax]

As I understood it, there is no GA medal for extra games, but those points go for MVP medal?

Indeed:

Note: The extra games will count towards the General Achievement Medals for the individual players.

Lx

OK, this is confusing the issue a bit. If the extra games (that really have nothing to do with 'team' as the title 'TLO' implies) count towards the MVP award then the formula in the rules needs amending.

The same player cannot play more than 1 singles match, 2 doubles matches, 2 triples matches and the quads match

That means one player may play up to 6 games in each set, OK....that's clear.

Played a minimum of 50% of the possible total amount of games a player can participate in (45 games)

This is taken from the rules governing the MVP award. If there are 15 rounds and a player may participate in 6 games per round, then a minimum of 50% = 45 games he must have played in. However, if the 'extra rounds' count towards the MVP award - and there are 16 of them - then theoretically a player wishing to be eligible for the MVP must also consider those games. Thus the formula is (6 x 15) + 16 = 106, x 50% = 53. This is therefore not 45 as written in the rules.

Of course it's the TO's prerogative, but I fail to see how these extra games should count towards the MVP when the points earned from them really have no bearing on the team score (and thus its standing in the league table). It means a player such as Rodion (4,185pts) who could easily be a candidate for MVP would potentially have to enter the extra games and put all those points on the line in Assassin & Terminator games. It may not just be Rodion - I'm thinking of myself here too!

And how many points are awarded for these extra games? How do they compare with points earned in the regular TLO games? Is MVP calculated on wins minus losses, or points won minus points lost? And why choose Terminator games? How do you determine the winner? Is it last man standing (so if 1 player eliminates everyone else bar one but then gets eliminated by that last man it's tough luck?). Terminator seems pretty unfair to anyone with a decent rank as it's well-known he becomes an immediate target for the lesser ranks coz of the points they'll gain. There's really no incentive to join the extra games, which is a shame.

So....quite a few questions there Rob, sorry. The main one is - If extra games count towards MVP then 50% of all games a player could participate in would equal 53, right? And these 53 could all be played in regular TLO games (no extras) right? Which would mean in 8 rounds of the regular tourney a player would have to join 4 games and not 3 (and may join just 3 games in the remaining 7 rounds) to get to that magic figure of 53 without having to enter 50% (i.e. 8 ) of the extra games, which would seem a bit extreme/unfair.

Wow, at first this went straight over my head! After reading it another 6 times I think I get it.

First of all, and with all due respect, all the info has been posted in the OP from the moment the tournament was posted for sign-up. And although I always appreciate thoughts and suggestions that could improve this tournament, by now it's unlikely I will change anything. I will, of course, take them into account for the next version of this tournament.

Second, I thought the info was clear enough, but of course I have it all clear in my head. I realize that some details could have been explained more in depth, however I also wanted to avoid writing a whole book in the OP (not an excuse). I'll try to respond in detail now and hopefully that will clear some things up.

Played a minimum of 50% of the possible total amount of games a player can participate in (45 games)

This is taken from the rules governing the MVP award. If there are 15 rounds and a player may participate in 6 games per round, then a minimum of 50% = 45 games he must have played in. However, if the 'extra rounds' count towards the MVP award - and there are 16 of them - then theoretically a player wishing to be eligible for the MVP must also consider those games. Thus the formula is (6 x 15) + 16 = 106, x 50% = 53. This is therefore not 45 as written in the rules.

I don't agree that "a player wishing to be eligible for the MVP "must" also consider those games (the extra games)". In itself I don't agree, but you also have the math wrong. There are 6 "series" of extra games, all teams have 6 players and even though 1 player could theoretically play all 6 games, I figured that on the whole it's 1 extra game per player. Even if you take into account that 1 player could play all 6 games, 50% is still only 3 games, not 8.

Besides all that, I decided not to include the extra games in the calculation because they're extra. I thought I made that clear by writing the (45 games) in brackets. I decided to count them towards the individual GA Medals, so that if you win a game it's at least good for something. Whether that's fair or correct is a matter of personal opinion. On the whole it's unlikely to make a big difference.

Of course it's the TO's prerogative, but I fail to see how these extra games should count towards the MVP when the points earned from them really have no bearing on the team score (and thus its standing in the league table). It means a player such as Rodion (4,185pts) who could easily be a candidate for MVP would potentially have to enter the extra games and put all those points on the line in Assassin & Terminator games. It may not just be Rodion - I'm thinking of myself here too!

They could have a bearing on the final standings, in case of a tie. And the way I did it (45 games instead of the 53) Rodion or you or any other player has no "obligation" to participate in the extra games. I never figured that many very high-ranked players would participate, but you don't need to, because your team has 6 members. So, again, I don't think this issue is a big deal.

And how many points are awarded for these extra games?

1, see OP.

How do they compare with points earned in the regular TLO games?

Not sure I understand the question, 1 point is 1 point.

Is MVP calculated on wins minus losses, or points won minus points lost?

"The MVP of this tournament will be the player with the highest win percentage who also complies with the requisites mentioned below."

"The MVTM of this tournament will be the player (other than the MVP) who contributed the most points to his/her team and also complies with the requisites mentioned below."

I suppose your question is about the MVTM? If so, there are no minus points.

And why choose Terminator games? How do you determine the winner? Is it last man standing (so if 1 player eliminates everyone else bar one but then gets eliminated by that last man it's tough luck?). Terminator seems pretty unfair to anyone with a decent rank as it's well-known he becomes an immediate target for the lesser ranks coz of the points they'll gain. There's really no incentive to join the extra games, which is a shame.

Mmmm.... I'm going to have to ask why you're asking now, while the info has been there all the time? Anyway, at the time I simply figured that Terminator and Assassin games would make a nice variation, no other reason. The winner of a Terminator game is the last man standing, the standard CC way.

I understand your last 2 points, but I figured that all TLO participants are officers and decent players. They're not a bunch of cooks going for the only Major in the game because of points. Other than that, as I said before, I never thought the very high-ranked players would choose to participate in the extra games, precisely because the fear of loss of points. That's unfortunate, but hey, at least you have a choice.

So....quite a few questions there Rob, sorry. The main one is - If extra games count towards MVP then 50% of all games a player could participate in would equal 53, right? And these 53 could all be played in regular TLO games (no extras) right? Which would mean in 8 rounds of the regular tourney a player would have to join 4 games and not 3 (and may join just 3 games in the remaining 7 rounds) to get to that magic figure of 53 without having to enter 50% (i.e. 8 ) of the extra games, which would seem a bit extreme/unfair.

As you can see above, this is a non-issue, because you only need to play 45 games, not 53.


I hope I was able to explain the details better. I'm sure that many have their opinion on some of the above issues, but that will never be avoidable.

Lx

[Lindax]

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I posted the updated game rosters for Round 2. In other words the first results.

I still need some player assignments for the first round of extra games, due by Sunday.

For the Schedule, Maps & Settings and other Round Info: Click here

Lx

PS: If you don't see them you need to refresh the page.

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