Conquer Club

sempaispellcheck wrote:This needs to be redone for 2015, now that groups are determined.
It could also probably use an XML rewrite to better mirror the actual process of clarification.
I will work on the XML part and could probably have something tomorrow.

sempai

The format for this year's World Cup has 6 groups of 4, who progress to a round of 16, so would need a gameplay change and not just a visual update.

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Final Map:

Description wrote:This map was created to commemorate the 2015 FIFA Women's World Cup in Canada. The map features teams as territories in qualifying groups as the bonus regions, including a special world cup territory in the middle of the map."

Players begin in qualifying confederations; the group stages and playoffs all start neutral, with increasing neutrals towards the finals. Each team can play (attack) each other team in the same qualifying group, and corresponding teams that progressed to the Group Stage proper. More than one team in the Group stage is required to open up conditional borders to the corresponding winner/runner-up/third place slots in the Round of 16. The Round of 16 slots can also attack back to teams within the corresponding group. To win the game, you can either eliminate your target, eliminate all your opponents, or conquer and hold both the Finalist positions.

Mapmakers:
MrBenn and sempaispellcheck

Small Map:


Large Map:

MrBenn wrote:

sempaispellcheck wrote:This needs to be redone for 2015, now that groups are determined.
It could also probably use an XML rewrite to better mirror the actual process of clarification.
I will work on the XML part and could probably have something tomorrow.

sempai

The format for this year's World Cup has 6 groups of 4, who progress to a round of 16, so would need a gameplay change and not just a visual update.

While there are only 11 active games on the map, 5 of them are tournament games. The gameplay could be changed without adjusting the territories too much, but the groups would need to be split up into individual matches. I don't know what the current administration think about changing stuff like that with active games in progress?

I have almost completed an XML rewrite with the necessary gameplay changes, and have asked ian and redbaron if either of them could do the graphics (or find someone to do them).
Since the tournament format is so different, I'm actually thinking we should leave the existing map as is (with the year in the title), and release the revamp as a new map.

sempai

sempaispellcheck wrote:I have almost completed an XML rewrite with the necessary gameplay changes

Here are the changes I have made/will make in my XML rewrite:
Each of the 6 qualifiers now have 6 teams, instead of 4, and give 2 troops for holding all teams instead of 1.
The Group Stage section now contains 6 groups of 4 teams, instead of 4 groups of 4.
The actual bracket FIFA is using will be made, with a 1 troop bonus for holding a quarterfinalist in addition to the 2 troop semifinalist bonus that was already in play.
Group Winner and Runner-up bonuses have not been changed.
I don't plan on adding bonuses for 3rd-place spots, even if all teams in a group are held - since each group can reach 3rd-place spots on either side of the bracket, the mobility the 3rd-place spots provide incentivizes using those spots more than a bonus would.
That said, I would be willing to add a 1 troop 3rd-place bonus if people feel they are sufficiently difficult to hold - as each is accessible from 3 different groups.

I will post the XML in this thread when it is finished.
If nobody has any objections to the gameplay changes, the only thing that will need to be changed in the XML after I post it will be the coordinates.

Also, in my PM to ian and redbaron, I included the teams that should be in each qualifier and each group, in the order they should appear.

sempai

I'm pretty certain I've got photoshop files lying around somewhere - I've definitely got them for the 2010/2014 men's tournament which formed the basis for this one.

MrBenn wrote:I'm pretty certain I've got photoshop files lying around somewhere - I've definitely got them for the 2010/2014 men's tournament which formed the basis for this one.

Would you be willing to do the graphics for this one?
I can forward you the PM I sent ian and redbaron, and send you my XML when it's done.

sempai

sempaispellcheck wrote:I have almost completed an XML rewrite with the necessary gameplay changes, and have asked ian and redbaron if either of them could do the graphics (or find someone to do them).
Since the tournament format is so different, I'm actually thinking we should leave the existing map as is (with the year in the title), and release the revamp as a new map.

sempai

Yes make it a new map please!
I am very fond of this map ad it is, so if yall change the gameplay on it I'll be quite angry

at the very least, the extra troop on Germany needs to be removed. i've said this since the map became un-limited

Gilligan wrote:at the very least, the extra troop on Germany needs to be removed. i've said this since the map became un-limited

So, we'll remove it - and move it to Canada.
Home-field advantage.

sempai

I've been in discussion with sempaispellcheck and come up with this as a draft, but we're still debating the configuration for the qualifier groups.

I'm undecided between having 42 starting slots in the qualifiers (7 groups of 6), reducing it to 36 (7 groups of 5 plus Canada), or increasing it to 66 (7 groups of 6 and 6 groups of 4) or just increasing it to 60 (7 groups of 6, and 6 groups of 3 leaving out the bottom team in each group stage group)

MrBenn wrote:I've been in discussion with sempaispellcheck and come up with this as a draft, but we're still debating the configuration for the qualifier groups.

I'm undecided between having 42 starting slots in the qualifiers (7 groups of 6), reducing it to 36 (7 groups of 5 plus Canada), or increasing it to 66 (7 groups of 6 and 6 groups of 4) or just increasing it to 60 (7 groups of 6, and 6 groups of 3 leaving out the bottom team in each group stage group

My initial idea was to have 6 groups of 6, separated by continent. Problem is, there are 8 European teams that qualified for the World Cup. So, I put the other 2 European teams in the Oceania qualifier.
I then had the idea to put 8 teams in each qualifier, but MrBenn said the groups wouldn't fit. I would think he could make the map taller to fit them, but I'm not a graphics guy, so I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't actually possible.
MrBenn proposed including 12 European teams in 2 groups of 6, but that would create 7 groups of 6, making it impossible to balance the drop for a 12-player game. To me, a balanced drop is one where territories are divided evenly among 12 players with no neutrals. This wouldn't be possible with 42 territories because 42 is not evenly divisible by 12.
To me, the idea of leaving out 6 group-stage teams would also result in an unbalanced drop - 6 players would start with 3 qualifying teams and 2 group-stage teams, while the other 6 would start with 4 qualifying teams and 1 group-stage team.

Does anyone else have any other suggestions?

sempai

@MrBenn
You have at least 1 typo on your draft. The Spain qualifier is miss-labeled.

I'll again add that this should be a new map independent of 2011 WC. This map will have a much different game play. It makes no sense to kill off a perfectly fine map for no reason, just let 2011 live on.
Seeing that 2011 has been restricted along with the other WC map kind of makes one think yall are going to kill it...
If you do, let's go ahead and update maps like Europe 1914, France 1789, South AFrica 1885 etc. Its 2015 fellas!

JPlo64 wrote:I'll again add that this should be a new map independent of 2011 WC. This map will have a much different game play. It makes no sense to kill off a perfectly fine map for no reason, just let 2011 live on.
Seeing that 2011 has been restricted along with the other WC map kind of makes one think yall are going to kill it...

Whether we change the gameplay (and we're considering it) or not, I have no knowledge of any plans to kill either of the existing WC maps - and I am surprised to see them closed, as I had thought it was decided that they would be kept open permanently.

JPlo64 wrote:If you do, let's go ahead and update maps like Europe 1914, France 1789, South AFrica 1885 etc. Its 2015 fellas!

You're comparing apples and oranges.
Those maps were created to represent particular historical moments - we have other maps of those areas which are more current.
These maps were created to represent recurring competitions and are updated periodically to reflect changes in participation.

sempai

Yeah, closing the existing maps was a bit of a pain but nothing major. The new map looks great, I'm not getting involved with gameplay, but don't replace 2011.

sempaispellcheck wrote:

JPlo64 wrote:If you do, let's go ahead and update maps like Europe 1914, France 1789, South AFrica 1885 etc. Its 2015 fellas!

You're comparing apples and oranges.
Those maps were created to represent particular historical moments - we have other maps of those areas which are more current.
These maps were created to represent recurring competitions and are updated periodically to reflect changes in participation.

sempai

I was being sarcastic
My point is that it's stupid to kill a unique map b/c it's out of date. I maybe worrying about nothing, but why on earth would 2011 be restricted when it's never going to be 2011 again unless the plan is to change it?
I guess you could just change the graphics without changing the board but then it wouldn't accurately represent the competition at all.

JPlo64 wrote:why on earth would 2011 be restricted when it's never going to be 2011 again unless the plan is to change it?

2014 is restricted as well, so I don't think that's the reason behind the restriction.

sempai

XML complete, pending gameplay changes (if any - would consist mainly of conditional borders and such).

sempai

this looks like an ingenious solution, guys, to the new format for 2015, while mostly retaining the spirit of the 2011 map.

the main issue i have is with the +2 bonus for any 3 grouped teams (not present in the 2011 map), which is easy enough to gain that it has the potential to render all other bonuses redundant in many sunny games. removing this bonus both simplifies and improves (the change to the xml will not be hard to do). the +2 for a regional qualifier group is more appropriate than the previous +1.

for clarity, the 2015 map will not replace the 2011 map, but will be an additional one.

ian.

iancanton wrote:this looks like an ingenious solution, guys, to the new format for 2015, while mostly retaining the spirit of the 2011 map.

iancanton wrote:the main issue i have is with the +2 bonus for any 3 grouped teams

Agreed. Tbh, I don't know how that got there (it's not in the XML).
MrB, if you could please remove that when you get the chance, that'd be awesome.

We are planning a few small gameplay changes, which I will detail when I get to a computer.

iancanton wrote:for clarity, the 2015 map will not replace the 2011 map, but will be an additional one.

So, will 2011 and 2014 be reopened?

sempai

'Any 3 grouped teams in the Group Stage +3' should be 'Amy 3 grouped teams PLUS GROUP WINNER +3'

Teflon Kris wrote:'Any 3 grouped teams in the Group Stage +3' should be 'Amy 3 grouped teams PLUS GROUP WINNER +3'

We are in the process of fixing that.

sempai

Updated images...

Small Map:


Large Map:

Sempaispellcheck is updating the xml. Any observations on gameplay or graphical issues that need to be adjusted?

Pending any changes, the XML is complete.
I did assume that the "Winner, 2nd and 3rd Place (same group)" bonus requires both 3rd place spots to be held, but if that is wrong, that's an easy fix.

sempai