12 Player Games, Invitation Upgrades & More

[Bruceswar]

Apart from the fact Bruce isn't arguing that, how many speed freestyle games have you played?

about the same as you, and as i have played 10,000 games to your 2,000 i must be 5 times as important as you.

rds is right. this change improves the setting for the majority.

It was an honest question, don't get so ruffled.

This doesn't improve the setting for the majority.

In speed freestyle, there is now less time for the less experienced to make their moves, meaning the more experienced player is more likely to win, much more easily, thereby putting more new freestyle players off.

Wrong. The amount of time to take your turn is exactly what it was. The delay is at the beginning of the game. It basically means that people don't have to sit there like zombies hitting Refresh, Refresh, Refresh, until their game starts. They are free to go do other things on the site, play other games, read the forums, whatever, and when the game does start they will have an opportunity to switch windows or tabs or whatever else, turn their attention to the game, and get ready to start with everyone else.

Imagine a track race where a runner had to stand in the starting blocks for hours, waiting until the other runners showed up. It would certainly discourage anyone from taking up running as a sport.

My prediction is that this change will increase, not decrease, the attractiveness of speed freestyle. Of course, I'm willing to face the facts if the facts are not in accord with the theory. So, like Big Wham said, let's give it a few weeks and see how it's working, and we'll change it if it's not working as planned.

one possibility with this feature is to restrict it to 1v1 games. i believe that that is where the real positive impact is. i don't think first turn in 3+ player games is any significant enough advantage to warrant imposing new rules, even if they are low impact.

As i said previously, i had a 6 men sequential fog starting yesterday, and with that rule i was able to take a snapshot before the start of the game. It is very relevant with fog, as otherwise you would miss some intel you have the right to have.

if you are that worried about some possible missing intel you can do one of two things. A) Be around when the game starts if you are that worried or B) Do not play freestyle and fog. That is one of the risk of playing that type of game.

[betiko]

if you are that worried about some possible missing intel you can do one of two things. A) Be around when the game starts if you are that worried or B) Do not play freestyle and fog. That is one of the risk of playing that type of game.

lol, be around when the game starts? like 24/24 7/7 on cc to wait for the last guy to join?
I prefer C) enjoy the setting change

[Bruceswar]

if you are that worried about some possible missing intel you can do one of two things. A) Be around when the game starts if you are that worried or B) Do not play freestyle and fog. That is one of the risk of playing that type of game.

lol, be around when the game starts? like 24/24 7/7 on cc to wait for the last guy to join?
I prefer C) enjoy the setting change

So you are telling me 1 hour is really going to make that much of a difference? I think not. It means you are on CC a ton anyhow if you catch a game in its first hour.

[iAmCaffeine]

Agreed, Bruce.

Also, rds, everyone has to wait for the full hour, including the person that started the game.

[Armandolas]

It basically means that people don't have to sit there like zombies hitting Refresh, Refresh, Refresh, until their game starts. They are free to go do other things on the site, play other games, read the forums, whatever, and when the game does start they will have an opportunity to switch windows or tabs or whatever else, turn their attention to the game, and get ready to start with everyone else.

This

[greenoaks]

Apart from the fact Bruce isn't arguing that, how many speed freestyle games have you played?

about the same as you, and as i have played 10,000 games to your 2,000 i must be 5 times as important as you.

rds is right. this change improves the setting for the majority.

It was an honest question, don't get so ruffled.

This doesn't improve the setting for the majority.

In speed freestyle, there is now less time for the less experienced to make their moves, meaning the more experienced player is more likely to win, much more easily, thereby putting more new freestyle players off.

Wrong. The amount of time to take your turn is exactly what it was. The delay is at the beginning of the game. It basically means that people don't have to sit there like zombies hitting Refresh, Refresh, Refresh, until their game starts. They are free to go do other things on the site, play other games, read the forums, whatever, and when the game does start they will have an opportunity to switch windows or tabs or whatever else, turn their attention to the game, and get ready to start with everyone else.

Imagine a track race where a runner had to stand in the starting blocks for hours, waiting until the other runners showed up. It would certainly discourage anyone from taking up running as a sport.

My prediction is that this change will increase, not decrease, the attractiveness of speed freestyle. Of course, I'm willing to face the facts if the facts are not in accord with the theory. So, like Big Wham said, let's give it a few weeks and see how it's working, and we'll change it if it's not working as planned.

one possibility with this feature is to restrict it to 1v1 games. i believe that that is where the real positive impact is. i don't think first turn in 3+ player games is any significant enough advantage to warrant imposing new rules, even if they are low impact.

as a TO it is difficult to get players to accept their invites to a Freestyle tournament.

the last player to accept gets to play straight away (breaking bonuses or securing any they dropped). there are lots of expired invites because of that, creating more work for us TO's and basically a fucking headache to run. it is even worse with teams where they'll have 1 player not accept until all 3 or 4 are ready to take their turns but if the other team hasn't accepted yet then they will let it expire. if the other team doesn't know of this tactic they are smashed.

i don't want to run Freestyle tournaments on CC with the old format regardless of the number of players involved.

[friendly1]

RT Games - if players are not willing to wait an hour for the first turn then can't they simply create it as a speed game? I don't see where RT games should be affected. What it should do is tempt freemium players to upgrade so they can play speed games and bypass a 1 hour wait on standard games. Whether that was intended or not it's a very smart business decision. I'd suggest bombarding new and freemium players with the information that speed games are only delayed by 20 seconds but are only accessible with a premium account.

Speed freestyle - the change takes away the inherent advantage experienced speed freestyle players have. Which is an excellent change in my opinion, as it's not game strategy but skill with being faster to start/use clickies/end. In a 8 player doodle assassin games where all the players are very experienced speed junkies I don't see where a 20 second delay on turn 1 changes the game in any way. I do see where it removes the ability to take advantage of people who play speed that are not as fast or not experienced in the setting.

I do see this new change affecting team freestyle casual games as teams will have to coordinate to be online together 60 minutes after the game begins to gain the advantage of coordinated turn 1 play.

[iAmCaffeine]

friendly1, I agree with you from a business perspective; it is a bold but beneficial move.

Just for your information, the delay in speed games is 20 seconds for 1 minute games. I believe it is different depending on the round length.

In speed freestyle it is better for the completely luck-based doodle assassin games and suchlike, but that's where the pros end in my opinion. An experienced speed freestyle player will still win just as often because people don't understand the strategy. Starting at the same time will make a slight difference, but since lots of people seem unable to grasp freestyle I doubt it will make a huge difference.

Don't get me wrong though, I'd love to see an influx of speed freestyle players.

[Chewie1]

As a non freestyle player (tried it but I have a slow connection so am on a hiding to nothing, so rarely dip my toe in the water)

I have read most of your arguments.

You all have some fair points for and against the delay, so rather keep bouncing it back and forth why not give it a month of trial games and see how it works out.

[Metsfanmax]

I basically agree with all of Bruce's points regarding freestyle, which is fairly surprising.

Just to add, I have only seen sequential players arguing for the delay and no regular freestylers. Says a lot.

What it says, for someone like me, is that I am more likely to participate in freestyle as a result of this change. The reason I originally supported this is that I want the extra time at the beginning of the game to get a read of the map and figure out my first turn -- especially if I end up being the first player. Whoever goes first is significantly harmed by the status quo, because they have to spend a significant fraction of their first turn just figuring out what is going on in the map. Everyone else does not have that disadvantage because they can use that first player's turn to read the map.

[greenoaks]

I basically agree with all of Bruce's points regarding freestyle, which is fairly surprising.

Just to add, I have only seen sequential players arguing for the delay and no regular freestylers. Says a lot.

What it says, for someone like me, is that I am more likely to participate in freestyle as a result of this change. The reason I originally supported this is that I want the extra time at the beginning of the game to get a read of the map and figure out my first turn -- especially if I end up being the first player. Whoever goes first is significantly harmed by the status quo, because they have to spend a significant fraction of their first turn just figuring out what is going on in the map. Everyone else does not have that disadvantage because they can use that first player's turn to read the map.

in freestyle everyone goes at the same time, if they happened to be online and constantly hitting refresh to know when the last player joins.

[iAmCaffeine]

Yeah.. You completely just described sequential, good job.

[Metsfanmax]

I basically agree with all of Bruce's points regarding freestyle, which is fairly surprising.

Just to add, I have only seen sequential players arguing for the delay and no regular freestylers. Says a lot.

What it says, for someone like me, is that I am more likely to participate in freestyle as a result of this change. The reason I originally supported this is that I want the extra time at the beginning of the game to get a read of the map and figure out my first turn -- especially if I end up being the first player. Whoever goes first is significantly harmed by the status quo, because they have to spend a significant fraction of their first turn just figuring out what is going on in the map. Everyone else does not have that disadvantage because they can use that first player's turn to read the map.

in freestyle everyone goes at the same time, if they happened to be online and constantly hitting refresh to know when the last player joins.

I would like to see the change implemented in sequential too. When I posted this I forgot that I had never made that comment in a public thread, it was a discussion we were having behind the scenes. I support the change in freestyle for the reasons that have been espoused by rds and others about being there at the beginning of the game, but I am making a more general comment about leveling the playing field by making sure everyone starts the game at the exact same time.

[Jippd]

I noticed some clans have clan tags on a players home page (KORT and TFFS for example) next to their name. Is this a feature that is going to be implemented for all clans?

[patrickaa317]

I noticed some clans have clan tags on a players home page (KORT and TFFS for example) next to their name. Is this a feature that is going to be implemented for all clans?

Just the important ones.

[Gilligan]

I noticed some clans have clan tags on a players home page (KORT and TFFS for example) next to their name. Is this a feature that is going to be implemented for all clans?

I would think so. Perhaps they went by the F400 list of active clans, because I don't see ATL with it either, and neither of you are on it yet.

[iAmCaffeine]

It works for Aeternus and we're not on the F400 yet.

[Leehar]

Please bear with us as we work out a few kinks in the database where some usergroups got in by mistake, and why the tags won't be showing correctly for some people. (Me included as the unfortunate guinea pig while testing the system. )

[betiko]

if you are that worried about some possible missing intel you can do one of two things. A) Be around when the game starts if you are that worried or B) Do not play freestyle and fog. That is one of the risk of playing that type of game.

lol, be around when the game starts? like 24/24 7/7 on cc to wait for the last guy to join?
I prefer C) enjoy the setting change

So you are telling me 1 hour is really going to make that much of a difference? I think not. It means you are on CC a ton anyhow if you catch a game in its first hour.

You have an option to receive by email a game starting alert. Most people have internet on their phones, so they know and have an hour to get ready.

[Bruceswar]

if you are that worried about some possible missing intel you can do one of two things. A) Be around when the game starts if you are that worried or B) Do not play freestyle and fog. That is one of the risk of playing that type of game.

lol, be around when the game starts? like 24/24 7/7 on cc to wait for the last guy to join?
I prefer C) enjoy the setting change

So you are telling me 1 hour is really going to make that much of a difference? I think not. It means you are on CC a ton anyhow if you catch a game in its first hour.

You have an option to receive by email a game starting alert. Most people have internet on their phones, so they know and have an hour to get ready.

How many people use the email feature. .. I would say very very few. ... Very moot point.

[cairnswk]

Guys, a small issue that needs attention is the XML tool page.
http://www.conquerclub.com/mapmaker/index.php

It now comes up with the 12 player spaces, but the extra colours are not coded in and have to be entered manually for the page to work.

I know it's probably on the drawing board... and thanks for your work.

Fixed. Thanks cairns

Sorry, to hassle blake...but this page is not working...i suspect the hash tags have to be removed from the page coding on lines 146/7/8/9
as it is now, the xml armies don't propogate on the map after pressing the "inspect map" or "test coordinates" buttons

[iAmCaffeine]

Going to the second page of Game Finder is still broken.

I still have the option to cancel other player's invitations.

There is no "Join Game" link for speed team games once a team is filled if you go through Join A Game > Speed Games, but through Game Finder it works.

I can make two player Doubles games.

Just keeping you updated.

[plurple]

was just curious on when the ETC was for the invitation update to work for tournament games? as in when you are making tournament games it won't allow you to invite player 1 which it should! also is it possible for it to keep the players you invite to stay in the boxes once the game has been made like the password does? thanks

[betiko]

if you are that worried about some possible missing intel you can do one of two things. A) Be around when the game starts if you are that worried or B) Do not play freestyle and fog. That is one of the risk of playing that type of game.

lol, be around when the game starts? like 24/24 7/7 on cc to wait for the last guy to join?
I prefer C) enjoy the setting change

So you are telling me 1 hour is really going to make that much of a difference? I think not. It means you are on CC a ton anyhow if you catch a game in its first hour.

You have an option to receive by email a game starting alert. Most people have internet on their phones, so they know and have an hour to get ready.

How many people use the email feature. .. I would say very very few. ... Very moot point.

well you're not going to convince me and i'm not going to convince you. nevertheless i think we can find a common ground: just have both systems existing and have the possibility to put the delay option or not on freestyle. like this everyone is happy.

[blakebowling]

Guys, a small issue that needs attention is the XML tool page.
http://www.conquerclub.com/mapmaker/index.php

It now comes up with the 12 player spaces, but the extra colours are not coded in and have to be entered manually for the page to work.

I know it's probably on the drawing board... and thanks for your work.

Fixed. Thanks cairns

Sorry, to hassle blake...but this page is not working...i suspect the hash tags have to be removed from the page coding on lines 146/7/8/9
as it is now, the xml armies don't propogate on the map after pressing the "inspect map" or "test coordinates" buttons

Fixed.

Going to the second page of Game Finder is still broken.

I still have the option to cancel other player's invitations.

There is no "Join Game" link for speed team games once a team is filled if you go through Join A Game > Speed Games, but through Game Finder it works.

I can make two player Doubles games.

Just keeping you updated.

Game Finder has been fixed.

The button is there, but if you click it on an invite you didn't send, you receive an error message.

The Join Link should be fixed as well, but I'm not 100% sure, please let me know if it's still not working properly.

Two player doubles games have been fixed.

was just curious on when the ETC was for the invitation update to work for tournament games? as in when you are making tournament games it won't allow you to invite player 1 which it should! also is it possible for it to keep the players you invite to stay in the boxes once the game has been made like the password does? thanks

It's on my to-do list. Maybe a couple days on ETA.