Conquer Club

symmetry sucks.

Check out this post of the Mapmaker's Guide, it talks about some helpful tools, some of which are free:

viewtopic.php?f=649&t=150681&start=0#p3292850

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In terms of gameplay, maps that are symmetrical aren't always great, because the balance can lead to stalemates or deadlocks. Chinese Checkers, 8 Thoughts, Circus Maximus as some examples where the symmetry can create games that just devolve into not much strategy or fun.

However, if we could see a draft, it might be easier to get a sense of how symmetry could...or couldn't work.


--Andy

I suppose I thought that having multiple win conditions other than just having a million troops and annihilating people would offset the "everyone hates symmetry" discussion. Thanks for the mapmaker's guide link. Sometimes the forums aren't in the most intuitive orderings.

Also, maybe before I make a map, could you give some examples of maps that do have symmetry, but work? I'd maybe look at those to see if mine is closer to those or to the ones you've already listed.

Knights works great for the 1v1 game but the symmetry is lost in all other game sizes. Thats one of the problems with symmetry, you will never get it the same for all game sizes. Two maps trying for it now in the foundry are Labyrinth and Defend America. But both of those have some differences.

I think identical symmetry often is just hard to work with to make a fun map. But you can create a partial-symmetrical map...using a mix of real identical symmetry and some unbalance (in the good sense of the word) to create a map with some more character.

Look forward to your draft, so I can get a better sense of how things might shape up.


--Andy

My draft will have full symmetry, because I am not sure how I would edit like you're asking, but I'd be open to changes/suggestions. The main thing I care about is the inner part that is in fact a compass rose. I'll post an image tomorrow or the next day.

Map is added, any comments now? "symmetry sucks" is taken.

Honestly, I cannot see this being made as is. The problems, while they can be overcome, I do not think there would be enough support for it.

I suppose that's fair; can you be more clear, so that if I try to make another map, I don't spend time making a map that nobody would want to play? I assume you understand that this isn't so much a graphics draft as simply a function graph, but you seem to know what you're doing so I assume there are fundamental problems for gameplay that you see (that I don't). If you'd rather have a discussion via PM that's fine.

The function almost reminds me of like a symmetrical version of Dungeons of Draknor map, which was all one way assaults. I was fond of the novelty of that map, but this one as koontz pointed out, probably has a lot more hurdles to overcome.

What other ideas do you have for maps? I usually suggest first time mapmakers finding something that has a broader taste level for their first time map. Once you complete a map, in general people seem to give you more leeway with content and ideas since you've proven something.


--Andy

If you are looking for ideas on how to go about a map, you can check out these two forums.
The first one is the one you are in, have a browse around, and not just the first few pages, but skip a lot and head into the thirties and forties. A lot of good ideas that have never been made as no one had the skill to do it. Another one to look at is the recycling box. viewforum.php?f=242
Less ideas but these are some way into the process and you can see where others have gone wrong on there versions. If you are looking for a really good idea, look out for the thread from AndyDufresne, some really great ideas from him have been posted after his banana binges.