Conquer Club

Thinking as how there's no pressure to get things done quickly in the foundry, I thought I'd give map making another go. I'll try "gimp" this time. Seeing as how most of it looks exactly like Photoshop I understand the symbols gimp use. The map idea is not based on a land territory or some other image. The theme is math. And territs will be named after numbers, letters and other symbols used in math. Bonuses will be holding number, letters and symbols necessary to have different formulas. Such as: a^2+b^2=c^2 and c^2=a^2+b^2-2ab*CosC. Anyone who plays this map will get a math lesson as well. I'll do my best to answer any questions. And before you ask yes I'm fairly good at math ! Not an expert and I'm sure that someone here is better but I'd say I'm better than at least 95%.

Features:

There's a total of 313 regions, 8 starting positions, each section of the map contains 39 regions.
White dots indicate borders, black dots are impassables.
Each player begins on a single capital letter next to E=Mc^2
"=" can bombard all other sections small single letter regions (a, b, c, e, f, k, m, p, q, v, x, y, but not A, K, L, M etc)
"≈" can assault it's 2 closest neighboring "=". It's the only way a player can advance troops into other sections of the map.
Starting positions can assault E=mc^2. If held for one turn you win the game. (Currently, black dots separate starting positions and E=mc^2 but I will change that in the next update.)

Bonuses:
Parentheses are not part of the formulas.
Each formula is worth as many troops as regions necessary to hold it. It doesn't matter how many a's or 2's or *'s there are in a bonus. You still only need one of each kind. I was first thinking of making advanced formulas award more troops than more simple ones but I didn't find any good way to do that. Let me know if you have any ideas. I'm still very much open for ideas concerning bonuses.

360°=2*pi (6 regions)
lg(a*b)=lg a+lg b (6 regions)
a^2+b^2=c^2 (7 regions)
y=k*x+m (7 regions)
(x^a)*(x^b)=x^(a+b) (7 regions)
sin(pi/3)=(ƒ3)/2 (7 regions)
k=(ƒ(x)-ƒ(2))/(x-2) (7 regions)
y=e^(k*x) (7 regions)
(a^x)*(a^y)=a^(x+y) (7 regions)
(a+b)^2=a^2-2*a*b+b^2 (8 regions)
x^2+p*x+q=0 (9 regions)
x=(-p/2)±√(p/2)*(p/2)-q (10 regions)
c^2=a^2+b^2-2*a*b*cosC (10 regions)
A=(v*pi*r^2)/360 (10 regions)

Mathematical symbols:

Here's a list of the symbols I'm currently using, ordered by how many bonuses they are part of. This should give you an indication of how important different region are. "=" for example is required to hold if you are to get any bonus at all. "*" is required in 11 of them, "2" in 9 etc. The exception is "≈" which does not give any bonus but can assault into other sections.

= (part of all 14 bonuses)
* (part of 11 bonuses)
2 (part of 9 bonuses)
+ (part of 8 bonuses)
^ (part of 8 bonuses)
x (part of 7 bonuses)
a (part of 6 bonuses)
b (part of 5 bonuses)
/ (part of 4 bonuses)
- (part of 4 bonuses)
k (part of 3 bonuses)
pi (part of 3 bonuses)
ƒ (part of 2 bonuses)
360 (part of 2 bonuses)
c (part of 2 bonuses)
y (part of 2 bonuses)
p (part of 2 bonuses)
q (part of 2 bonuses)
√ (part of 1 bonus)
° (part of 1 bonus)
lg (part of 1 bonus)
m (part of 1 bonus)
sin (part of 1 bonus)
3 (part of 1 bonus)
e (part of 1 bonus)
0 (part of 1 bonus)
± (part of 1 bonus)
cos (part of 1 bonus)
A (part of 1 bonus)
v (part of 1 bonus)
r (part of 1 bonus)
> (not part of any bonus)
> (not part of any bonus)
4 (not part of any bonus)
180 (not part of any bonus)
ln (not part of any bonus)
tan (not part of any bonus)
≈ (not part of any bonus)

Newest map image:

I've distributed regions in a way that makes it hard to acquire bonuses let alone many bonuses. The important region are generally placed in dead ends and far from each other. The thought is that you'll have to think long and hard before you start taking regions. I decided to place some army numbers out there as well. Note that all are 3's except "≈" and"=" who are 5's. The staring position (L) is in slightly different colour. It will not have any autodeploy. E=mc^2 has not been given an amount of neutrals yet but it will be a high number.


Walkthrough:

Let me guide you through how I would play this map if I where to play it now:
The first choice is between "ln" and ">", both are worthless regions but I would take ">" to be able to take "p" next turn. "p" is not particularly good but it gives me a chance to take "2" next turn which is one of the best regions. From "2" I would take the worthless territ "4" to be able to take "q" which I want because "p" and "q" share 2 bonuses. I would then of course take "=". I then figured out which bonus I want to aim for. x=(-p/2)±√(p/2)*(p/2)-q. I already have "=", "p", "q", "2" and "±" and "-" are very close to where I am now. So I would take "±" and "-" and then reinforce back to "=". To get a bonus of 10 I now only need to hold "x", "/", "√" and "*". Unfortunately I'll have to take down 12 more territs to get all of them because they are very spread out. It looks like I made a mistake going for that particular bonus.
First game on this map shouldn't be a walk in the park. I want my map to be difficult! I want it to be the most difficult map to master and almost require a bit of chess like planning. Players will also have to take into consideration the win condition, the possibility of bombarding other players and advance into other sections, enemy or neutral sections. I think neutral values, bonuses and location of symbols are the three most important means to make this map balanced and excruciating difficult !

Previous versions:

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This map is very much in it's first stage and I've not decided much. But here's a list of things I know I want:
It will be about math. duh
Players will have 1 starting position and they will be separated by a lot of neutrals.
The map will be a labyrinth with dead ends.
Gameplay and strategy will be very advanced.
Bonuses and territs will be math inspired.

List of symbols:
+
-
*
/
different letters
=
>
<
^
´
different numbers
cos v
sin v
tan v
π
°
Area
Radian
√
ln x
lg x
ƒ
≈
±

Needles to say we've got a lot of symbols to play with !

Gillipig wrote:Seeing as how most of it looks exactly like Photoshop I understand the symbols gimp use, but I can't seem to get the "pen" function working and I'm therefore at the moment not able to make that first draft.

Use the brush, Luke.

ManBungalow wrote:

Gillipig wrote:Seeing as how most of it looks exactly like Photoshop I understand the symbols gimp use, but I can't seem to get the "pen" function working and I'm therefore at the moment not able to make that first draft.

Use the brush, Luke.

haha I was just painting on the wrong layer. Ok I've got a first really crappy sketch. hope this will clear out things a little bit. The round little circles in each top corner is starting positions and the straight lines are impassables. the not so staright lines marks territs. I'm thinking of making this labyrinth like with a lot of dead ends. and a lot of useless regions. Players will have top use their brain to get high bonuses not just being lucky and taking all types of regions. I'm thinking of maybe going even further and throw in a couple of bonus reducer territs for territs that are not math symbols just to make it harder to win purely by luck.

I thought about this very idea, but had a hard time figuring how to go about it to make the gameplay fun, but not too convoluted.

You really need to have a more understandable draft, though, as currently I'm having difficulty grasping the concept in a more concrete form.

-Sully

Be careful that this game does not encourage farming. Players will pick apart this map and look for the best possible combination to get the biggest bonus while attacking the least number of neutrals. New recruits could have a tough time if its not properly made

Hold i regions to win the game?

MoB Deadly wrote:Be careful that this game does not encourage farming. Players will pick apart this map and look for the best possible combination to get the biggest bonus while attacking the least number of neutrals. New recruits could have a tough time if its not properly made

At the end of the day, this could always be categorised as a "difficult" map to disable the farming of new recruits.

Okay so I made a little bit more advanced sketch. The red lines are impassables. The black are not. And players start in a corner like the previous sketch demonstrated.This time I have names as starting positions. I've added a couple of different math symbols out there to give you an image of how that might look. I might make it a smaller map, the amount of territs doesn't need to be as big as it is now I think. I've not put much thought into where I placed the symbols.

jammyjames wrote:

MoB Deadly wrote:Be careful that this game does not encourage farming. Players will pick apart this map and look for the best possible combination to get the biggest bonus while attacking the least number of neutrals. New recruits could have a tough time if its not properly made

At the end of the day, this could always be categorised as a "difficult" map to disable the farming of new recruits.

Yeah if this map goes all the way it will not be for newbies. My inspiration for this map is Das Schloss but I want to make it even more difficult. The poker map has also inspired me.

ManBungalow wrote:Hold i regions to win the game?

That would make it really hard to win . I've not thought of any win condition but I suppose this map could have that as well.

Victor Sullivan wrote:I thought about this very idea, but had a hard time figuring how to go about it to make the gameplay fun, but not too convoluted.

You really need to have a more understandable draft, though, as currently I'm having difficulty grasping the concept in a more concrete form.

-Sully

Hope this draft at least gives you guys a hum of how it would look.

You need to have a minimum of eight starting positions, if you're going the conquest route.

-Sully

Victor Sullivan wrote:You need to have a minimum of eight starting positions, if you're going the conquest route.

-Sully

I'm planning to make the map very good for 1v1 and 2v2. I don't want it to be a good 8 player escalating game. The AoR maps are 6 players or less maps so if 6 players is the minimum allowed for a map than that's what I'd like to aim for .

Gillipig wrote:

Victor Sullivan wrote:You need to have a minimum of eight starting positions, if you're going the conquest route.

-Sully

I'm planning to make the map very good for 1v1 and 2v2. I don't want it to be a good 8 player escalating game. The AoR maps are 6 players or less maps so if 6 players is the minimum allowed for a map than that's what I'd like to aim for .

You still need to make it playable for 8 players.

-Sully

ManBungalow wrote:Hold i regions to win the game?

Sorry, had to laugh at that...

Victor Sullivan wrote:

Gillipig wrote:

Victor Sullivan wrote:You need to have a minimum of eight starting positions, if you're going the conquest route.

-Sully

I'm planning to make the map very good for 1v1 and 2v2. I don't want it to be a good 8 player escalating game. The AoR maps are 6 players or less maps so if 6 players is the minimum allowed for a map than that's what I'd like to aim for .

You still need to make it playable for 8 players.

-Sully

AoR 1 and 2 doesn't fit that requirement so I don't see why this map should have to!

Gillipig wrote:

Victor Sullivan wrote:

Gillipig wrote:

Victor Sullivan wrote:You need to have a minimum of eight starting positions, if you're going the conquest route.

-Sully

I'm planning to make the map very good for 1v1 and 2v2. I don't want it to be a good 8 player escalating game. The AoR maps are 6 players or less maps so if 6 players is the minimum allowed for a map than that's what I'd like to aim for .

You still need to make it playable for 8 players.

-Sully

AoR 1 and 2 doesn't fit that requirement so I don't see why this map should have to!

Realms 1 and 2 fit the requirements of the time they were made, which was 6 players.

greenoaks wrote:

Gillipig wrote:

Victor Sullivan wrote:

Gillipig wrote:

Victor Sullivan wrote:You need to have a minimum of eight starting positions, if you're going the conquest route.

-Sully

I'm planning to make the map very good for 1v1 and 2v2. I don't want it to be a good 8 player escalating game. The AoR maps are 6 players or less maps so if 6 players is the minimum allowed for a map than that's what I'd like to aim for .

You still need to make it playable for 8 players.

-Sully

AoR 1 and 2 doesn't fit that requirement so I don't see why this map should have to!

Realms 1 and 2 fit the requirements of the time they were made, which was 6 players.

That sucks ! Well then this map will have to be big. Really big, otherwise each player won't get enough territs in his section. Taking all this into account, I've decided to put several different symbols on each territ. So one territ might have a "*" and a "/" symbol on it.
List of bonuses I've come up with: (I've decided to remove the ^ symbol because it's just a fancy way of writing something times itself so instead of a^2 one might just as well wright a*a.)

b=(v*2*π*r*r)/360 for this bonus you need to hold one "b", "=", "v", "2", "π", "/", "360" and two "r" as well as four "*".

a*a+b*b=c*c this bonus requires one "+", "=", two "a", "b", "c" and three "*".

sinA/a=sinB/b=sinC/c One "a", "b", "c", "A", "B", "C" and three "/", "=", "sin"

c*c=a*a+b*b-2ab*cosC This is a tricky one because when a letter is immediately followed by a number it's assumed that you should multiply the the two. The same goes for two numbers followed by each other or by a word. So the formula is really c*c=a*a+b*b-2*a*b*cosC. Therefore you need to hold one "=","cosC", "2", "+", "-" and two "c" and three "a", "b" and six "*".

A=(v*π*r*r)/360 One "A", "=", "v", "/", "360" and two "r" and three "*".

sin(180°-v)= sin v You need one "180", "°", "-", "=" and two "sin", "v". I'm not sure what to do with the "(" ")". Because in previous formulas I've added them simply because I needed to show that this calculation is meant to be done first. I can't write text under the divided with symbol on the computer. If someone knows how I could need some help with that and it would clear a lot of things up.

360°=2π One "360", "°", "=", "2", "π"

sin(π/3)=(√3)/2 One "sin", "π", "=", "√", "2" and two "/", "3".

x=(-p/2)±√(p/2)(p/2)-q You need one "x", "=", "±", "√", "q" and two "-" and three "p", "/", "2"

lg(a*b)=lg a + lg b One "=", "*", "+" and two "a", "b" and three "lg"

lg(a/b)=lg a-lg b One "/", "=", "-" and two "a", "b" and three "lg"

I've thought about win condition and I figure E=mc^2 (Einstein's most famous formula) would be fitting. To win you need to hold one "E", "=", "m" and two "*", "c". Not as many symbols as many other bonuses but I could make "m" and "E" very scarce and protected by high neutrals if necessary.

why have you decided against naming this map Mathematic ?

I realize it's very hard to understand the bonuses for now. Especially since most of the symbols aren't even on the map at the moment. But I understand it and for now that's the most important thing .

greenoaks wrote:why have you decided against naming this map Mathematic ?

I haven't put much thought into that yet. The map name is still very much up in the air. "Math wars" is another title I've thought off. Maybe when it's gotten more advanced I'll make a poll with a bunch of different titles and see what people like the most. Your suggestion is noted !

Gillipig wrote:

Victor Sullivan wrote:

Gillipig wrote:

Victor Sullivan wrote:You need to have a minimum of eight starting positions, if you're going the conquest route.

-Sully

I'm planning to make the map very good for 1v1 and 2v2. I don't want it to be a good 8 player escalating game. The AoR maps are 6 players or less maps so if 6 players is the minimum allowed for a map than that's what I'd like to aim for .

You still need to make it playable for 8 players.

-Sully

AoR 1 and 2 doesn't fit that requirement so I don't see why this map should have to!

Then you'll have to do like they did and get special permission from the Foreman.

-Sully

Victor Sullivan wrote:

Gillipig wrote:

Victor Sullivan wrote:

Gillipig wrote:

Victor Sullivan wrote:You need to have a minimum of eight starting positions, if you're going the conquest route.

-Sully

I'm planning to make the map very good for 1v1 and 2v2. I don't want it to be a good 8 player escalating game. The AoR maps are 6 players or less maps so if 6 players is the minimum allowed for a map than that's what I'd like to aim for .

You still need to make it playable for 8 players.

-Sully

AoR 1 and 2 doesn't fit that requirement so I don't see why this map should have to!

Then you'll have to do like they did and get special permission from the Foreman.

-Sully

Greenoaks said it was because 8 player wasn't required back then. And now you say it's possible but I need permission . I'm all confused , but if it's possible to make a map for 6 players then that's what I'd like to do. I don't know much about that process but I assume I need to get much further into developing the map to get special permission!?

this map sounds interesting, however what decides what formulas are bonuses, i might go for a number of territories that would make a formula to then find that it didn't actually reward anything

declan.west wrote:this map sounds interesting, however what decides what formulas are bonuses, i might go for a number of territories that would make a formula to then find that it didn't actually reward anything

Interesting question. I'd love to have every mathematical formula awarded with a bonus but I don't think that will be possible. I suppose we'll have to do our best to get all formulas we can think of written down and then of course make a selection based on gameplay reasons. I'm looking through my school books now for formulas and if you can think of any please post them here and I'll add them to the list.

Awesome idea!!!!!!

Though I only understand it 80% * 1.25 / 2 * 4 / 10 + 70% - 60% * 10 / 3
No using a calculator for this problem...!

I like the "Winning equation"