Conquer Club

So, I have an idea for a map. The map is called "The Wild West", and is about the famous Lawmen and Outlaws of -- you guessed it -- The Wild West. The Lawmen and Outlaws are all real historical people, and mostly appear in their known areas of operation.

I have a rough map (see below), with Lawmen and Outlaw names, but it needs background, color, graphics, and a legend. I'd also like to put in some background graphics of the stage, rail, pony express, and other routes in the old west. I'm working on the XML - excellent guides here should help, and I've got experience with programming so I don't expect any difficulties there.

Here's how I envision gameplay: There are 12 Lawmen and 35 Outlaws on the map, so 47 territs. Each Lawman is connected to 5 or 6 Outlaws, which connected region forms a continent (so that the 12 continents are named for the Lawmen). To own a continent, and get the bonus, you must own all the Outlaws connected to the Lawman. Since most of the Outlaws are shared by multiple Lawmen, this bonus should be quite challenging. I believe the continent bonus should equal the number of Outlaws you own that are shared. This gives the following Continents and bonuses:

Bill TIlghman: 4
Tom Horn: 6
Seth Bullock: 5
Bat Masterson: 5
Wyatt Earp: 5
Bass Reeves: 3
Judge Roy Bean: 3
Pat Garrett: 4
Henry Garfias: 4
Texas John Slaughter: 4
Dallas Stoudenmire: 5
Wild Bill Hickok: 7

I think normal number of territ bonuses should apply. I'm looking for suggestions about initial placement, number of territs owned per player, and other gameplay details.

Map Version 2:

I like this. I probably wouldn't be much help in the map-making process, but you have my vote of support for this one.

This is kinda neat, but let's say I replace the outlaws with cities and the lawmen with capitals. There's no longer anything "Wild West" about it now. You need to include some more unique gameplay features, like +1 for every outlaw "caught", as long as you have a lawman, or something.

Victor Sullivan wrote:... replace the outlaws with cities and the lawmen with capitals.

That would remove one of the major reasons I like this idea. There's already a map for the Western USA using cities and capitals. The lawmen/outlaw take gives it a unique twist.

Victor Sullivan wrote:There's no longer anything "Wild West" about it now.

I believe the idea of the map is to represent the "Wild West" as it was, not as it is.

temporos wrote:

Victor Sullivan wrote:... replace the outlaws with cities and the lawmen with capitals.

That would remove one of the major reasons I like this idea. There's already a map for the Western USA using cities and capitals. The lawmen/outlaw take gives it a unique twist.

Victor Sullivan wrote:There's no longer anything "Wild West" about it now.

I believe the idea of the map is to represent the "Wild West" as it was, not as it is.

I don't think you understood me, I'm not saying replace the lawmen and outlaws with capitals and cities, I'm saying IF you did, there would be nothing Wild West about this map. This is essentially just a cities and capitals thing with a Wild West front. I need to see some unique gameplay aspects to set this apart and make the map more "Wild West-y".

Victor Sullivan wrote:I don't think you understood me, I'm not saying replace the lawmen and outlaws with capitals and cities, I'm saying IF you did, there would be nothing Wild West about this map. This is essentially just a cities and capitals thing with a Wild West front. I need to see some unique gameplay aspects to set this apart and make the map more "Wild West-y".

I don't think that's strictly necessary. Not every subtle nuance of a theme needs to be expressed in the gameplay, or else we'd never get anything done in this Foundry. This gameplay scheme is already unique, and beyond that it's enough for the theme to be supported by the graphics.

Evil DIMwit wrote:

Victor Sullivan wrote:I don't think you understood me, I'm not saying replace the lawmen and outlaws with capitals and cities, I'm saying IF you did, there would be nothing Wild West about this map. This is essentially just a cities and capitals thing with a Wild West front. I need to see some unique gameplay aspects to set this apart and make the map more "Wild West-y".

I don't think that's strictly necessary. Not every subtle nuance of a theme needs to be expressed in the gameplay, or else we'd never get anything done in this Foundry. This gameplay scheme is already unique, and beyond that it's enough for the theme to be supported by the graphics.

Eh, I disagree, but whatever. Like I said, I would suggest having the bonus structure as +1 for every outlaw if you have a lawman, or something. I think that'd make more sense and would make this map more unique and "Wild West-y".

Although at first Victor I felt the same way about the bonuses, I realized after a little study that looks are deceiving. The gameplay is unique because all of the continents share regions (Outlaws) needed for their bonus. Although Helix has done a few similiar things with shared regions that apply to two different bonuses, he hasn't done anything on this scale.

That said, the look and layout right now does seem very 'capitals of the West' rather than outlaws vs. lawmen. But I'm assuming that this is a first draft and is only a rough sketch of the idea.

I like all of the research and colorful names (there were so many!). One thing however, being from Missouri and knowing something of its troubled post-Civil War history, I can't help but feel slighted that only Cole Younger made it onto the map- at the very least, where's the James Gang?

MarshalNey wrote:... being from Missouri and knowing something of its troubled post-Civil War history, I can't help but feel slighted that only Cole Younger made it onto the map- at the very least, where's the James Gang?

Danalan started to research the famous outlaws of Missouri, but his brain exploded at the sheer epic-ness of it (that, and the name "Clinton" kept showing up ).

Yeah, I'm stroking your ego a bit there.

Thanks for all the encouraging comments. This is a very rough draft - my graphics skills are not strong, so I'm hoping someone will help there. As far as gameplay, I think that having the only routes to attack other Lawmen being through Outlaws is an important element. I thought about the +1 per subdued outlaw concept, but feel that would add too many armies way too fast and easy.

I think that the state background is going away in the next draft - that will make it less of a 'capital city' appearing map. The timeframe for this concept is the late 1800's, so there are more territories than states - Oregon Territory, Arizona Territory, etc. Also there are major transportation routes that should be in the background. So this first draft is just for gameplay and concept.

Right now no Lawmen connect, and no Outlaws connect. However, I'm thinking some of the outlaws could be connected - I tried connecting all the Outlaws, but that was a mess. Looking at the map, there are some natural connections which would change gameplay, e.g. William Coe and Sam Bass Gang.

MarshalNey, and all - I'm entirely open to suggestions for more or more representative Outlaws, or Lawmen for that matter.

Continuing what Victor Sullivan said...adding more Wild West regions would help it along, my suggestions would be to add;

Jails - bonus for holding X amount of outlaws plus a jail
Banks - Bonus same as above
Allow lawmen to have a better attack...maybe 2 regions away

Here's an idea for a bonus structure: How about each Outlaw having a price on his head? The bounty would be based on the number of Lawmen the Outlaw was connected to. 1 = $100, 2 = $200, 3 = $300. Then the bonus could be based upon the bounties collected by the Lawmen. E.G.:

Brack Cornett: $100
Lame Johnny: $100
Wes Hardin: $200
Jesse Evans: $200
Sam Bass Gang: $300

Bonus Structure:

$300 - 1
$500 - 2
$800 - 3
$1100 - 4
$1400- 5
$1700 - 6

Judge Roy Bean could collect a maximum reward of $900, giving him bonus of 3. Wild Bill Hickok could collect a maximum reward of $1700, giving him 6. Merely owning 1 of the 3-connection Outlaws would be a 1 army bonus, so those Outlaws would have to start neutral.

I've carried the concept over to the graphics, with the circles being in Wanted posters.

danalan wrote:I've carried the concept over to the graphics, with the circles being in Wanted posters.

I like how you changed it to a "Wanted" style and changed to a more Wild-West map backdrop, but all the labels are gone...