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Zombieland

Postby Top Dog on Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:27 pm

Felt like messing with GIMP
V.3.0
Click image to enlarge.
image

or http://s826.photobucket.com/albums/zz183/topdog12/?action=view&current=ZombieLand3legend.jpg
V.2.0
http://s826.photobucket.com/albums/zz183/topdog12/?action=view&current=SGZombiesv2.jpg&newest=1
V1.0
http://s826.photobucket.com/albums/zz183/topdog12/?action=view&current=ZOMBIES.jpg

Developed by me
38 territories (so far)
6 bonus zones
Gameplay:
For now the deployment would be random like any other map. Owning a buildings gives a bonus, owning a a whole zone gives a slightly larger bonus. Basically, if the edges touch they can attack each other, with a couple exceptions. no objective, no bombardments, no one way attacks, no zombie neutrals... AS OF NOW... again I'm not gonna put in zombie neutrals if they aren't available yet, if they are when the map is getting closer to finishing up then we'll talk. I'd like to add in some eye candy aka shotgun, or sniper representing special attacks... but that will also come later...
-TD
Last edited by Top Dog on Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:27 pm, edited 11 times in total.
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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby MarshalNey on Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:54 pm

Zombies are a classic idea that is long overdue for a center of map excellence like CC!

Since it's clear that you're still in the initial stages of planning- how to create thematic zombie gameplay, what the bonuses and territories should be like, and how to spice up the graphics- allow me throw in my two cents.

Gameplay:
Killer Neutrals.
The perfect way to simulate unstoppable hordes of undead. I suggest dispersing 1-troop killer neutral stacks all over the map, rather than putting large neutral stacks at crucial spots. That way, there is no way to escape the zombies- they are everywhere!

The idea here is to create "zombies" that will remain in play throughtout the game no matter what, without making them a complete wild card with regards to the dice. We reduce the 'luck factor' by making them 1-troop zombie neutrals that can be beaten back with some degree of certainty, but every player knows they will be back next round- thus making them an integral part of any player's strategy. To that end, in fact, I present my next idea...

No Bonus Is Safe.
That's right, every bonus on the map is only temporary! In order to "keep" a bonus region, a player will have to re-take at least one or more territories that get overrun by zombies every round (1-troop only, of course).

This is my favorite idea, as it turns the killer neutrals from mere barriers into active forces of malice. Perfect for creating a sense of endless wading through zombie masses, and ensures that players will be forced to deal with them rather than ignoring zombified territories. But speaking of barriers...

The Zombie Gauntlets.
It's a jungle out there- and it wants human flesh! Most of the light blue territory you've marked as the streets will be zombified (killer neutral); entryways into buildings could also be zombified, forcing players to make a 3 or 4 territory dash between points of safety!

By splitting up the passageways (the streets) between your bonus regions into "gauntlets" of 2 or more zombified territories (1-troop killer neutrals), the map will create a sense of dread and isolation. This belongs in any Zombie Invasion- particularly if it's a fog of war game, where you're forced to run a gauntlet with your stack and praying you don't get eaten by what you find at the end of it. Incidentally, by making so many zombified regions, we're also creating....

Safe Havens.
Bank vaults. Armories. Sporting Goods stores. No matter where you're at- the Business District, the Military Compound or the Mall, some places are just better to hole up in than others. Safe havens are just ordinary territories, but with so many zombified regions, this actually makes them pretty special!

Safe havens are meant to act as sort of "capture the flag" points that players will want to take because the surrounding area will get overrun at the end of the round. As such, they may often be single territories, but could also be "safe pockets" of 2 or more territories. This would give a unique "island hopping" feel to the gameplay, where players have to wade through seas of undead in order to reach dry land- where the natives will be defensive and hostile to boot.


Bonus & Territory Ideas:
Bonuses Vary According to Zombification.
Sure, the Mall can house and support more people than the Military Compound- but is it safer? Would you trade safety in numbers for... well, just plain safety? Each bonus region has a different number of zombified regions in it. The Compound probably only has 1 or 2, while the Mall might have 3 or more. However, the Mall may provide a bigger bonus in troops as the flood of civilians can more easily reach it and be housed and fed.

By making the ratio of safe havens to zombified terts into part of the rubric for determining the size of a bonus, it will be easier to give each map region a more distinct flavor. Also on the topic of flavor, I think the map could use....

Home Ground.
The fight to turn the tide has to start with somebody. From the faceless masses, heroes of humanity have risen and gathered like-minded people. In addition to the normal random mix of territories, each player is guaranteed a starting safe haven with an auto-deploy bonus of +3. Each Rallying Point can be associated with a faction of people. Out of the Residential Areas come the strong-willed Anarcho-Survivalists; out of the Mall comes the humble People's Mandate (or Mob?); out of the Military District come the Warrior Generals; out of the Business District, the cold-blooded Machiavellians. Each faction has their home base- each unwilliing to compromise with the other in a world gone mad.

The Rallying Point is meant to give a player a sense of safety and hope, which is the necessary flip side in any story that involves a fight against hopeless odds. In addition to being a safe haven with an autodeploy, it should probably also be ringed by zombified regions, just to keep it out of the reach of early attacks. Why would it be attacked early? Well, you see, there might be something I like to call....

The Big Scramble.
Every invasion has to start somewhere. During the first round, almost all of the zombified regions will be claimed randomly by the players, in addition to some safe havens. Thus, if you don't use troops on the first round, you may well lose them!

This idea would create a sense of chaos and panic in the first round, as everyone tries to use their initial 3-spots in desperate attacks to reach a safe haven. This is of course a very pain-in-the-butt idea, as the mapmaking balance would require that most of these initial terts would be within some conceivable distance of a safe haven (no more than two territories away). Of course, different tactics could also come into play, for instance trying to attack a territory just to knock down an opponent's deployment based on the number of terts. This would also depend on the map size of course- yours is very small right now. However, I think the idea has some thematic as well as strategic merit; certainly this would put the map over the top as one of the most unique "scenario" maps as it would make the first round a completely different phase of the game- an almost second drop, if you will.


Graphics & Text
Territories Are Marked as Either Safe Havens or Infested.
If a territory is "zombified" (turns into 1 neutral troop at the end of each round), then it has a distinct border (let's say red) that separates it from "safe havens" (normal territories) which have a different color border (let's say blue), or no border at all. The border color would be independent of the base color of the bonus region, but other than that it would look a lot like the SuperMax Prison Riot! map territories. Thus, each bonus region would share the same base color, but have two types of territories- infested and safe- that have distinctly different borders.

Territory names should be related to their relative safety or zombification. So, the Bank Vault might be marked a safe haven, while the Bank Tellers might be marked as infested.

Rallying Points Are Cool.
And since they are, they should get a special marking beyond looking like a normal safe haven. Beside each Rally Point could be some symbol for their faction, for instance. The names could be of the faction itself, or be related- for instance Central HQ for the Warrior Generals, or the Video Arcade for the People's Mob.

B-Movie Magic.
Borrow as many ideas as you can from Army of Darkness-esque movies. I think a tongue-in-cheek humor in naming could really enhance the players' experience. Don't get too bogged down in serious zombie horror; the United States of Apocalypse, for instance, would've been a map I avoided if it got too involved with the horrors of radiation and mutation. Instead, I found the map names were hilarious and added just enough balance between drama and fun.


I hope that this at least gives you ideas, even if you can't use any of it. Best of luck on bringing Zombies officially into CC!

Marshal Ney

P.S. If the "Zombie Neutrals" update to the site gets done by LackAttack anytime soon, a map with 1-troop killer neutrals would truly provide a classic zombie feel. Maybe if you build the map, the zombies will come... kind of like a "Field of Zombies" fantasy, but what can I say? ;)
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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby Mad-elph on Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:25 am

BRAVO MarshalNey =D> =D> =D> =D>

That is a very comprehensive break down of what this map should play like. The only Thing I would add is that the starting points should be randomly alloted and should be within 3 of a building... kinda like you ran form your house and shit is getting mad round you and instead of running you decide to head for the nearest building to hold up in... It is at this point that you and 8 other brave souls start the firs round of this game. Your first turn should give you a run for the nearest building, this way once random (and needing to be balanced right) people wouldn't always run for the same thing.
=D> =D>

@ OP

Watch Dawn of the Dead 10 times before you proceed. And certainly your map needs to be redrawn... But you brought the noise with the idea, good luck with it. I really look forward to the fun! :D
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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby grifftron on Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:04 am

i myself would love to see a zombie map, but it would have a sweet game play to make it thru CC.

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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby cubfanpgh on Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:05 am

BigImg it.

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby grifftron on Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:05 am

Yea i would say make the map according to what MarshalNey said in the 2nd post and this map will be "epic"

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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby Rih0 on Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:19 pm

Seems good, the idea is good, but need some advice:

1st: The cartografy team does not like the small maps (with low number of territories), so if you could achieve at least more than 32, i would help a bit.
2nd: Make an interesting gameplay that is original
3rd: Try making the map clearer as possible.
4th: Always remember: The CC players are your public, so provide them some fun
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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby Top Dog on Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:27 pm

thanks for all the advice... I definitely am considering starting points like in feudal war to give players a chaotic start the the game... I haven't yet decided whether or not to make it an objective game where you have to take and keep the military base to win... and having the base start out with zombies... But I'm leaning towards leaving that out...

I definitely want the map bigger... although that would probably mean me just starting from scratch again but this was something I threw together in 30-45 min. so I'm not worried...

And yes zombies need to make their way to CC... I mean... how else will the public be prepared for the invasion starting in Dec. 2012 and coming in full effect sometime the following year?!
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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby lurkerleader on Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:06 am

perhaps a couple things to think about adding:
1) stationary weapons (ie. in one building you have a shotgun through a window and can bombard attack like 4 or 5 territories in front of it, or an RPG that can bombard attack 6 areas that are midfield, or even a sniper rifle that can bombard in a straight like all the way across the map, melee weapons could have just a +1 autodeploy - knife, crowbar, baseball bat, taser? lol)

2) booby traps (ie. Random laser beams, machine gun turrets or flame-throwing devices are set up around the town that just return 3 or 4 or more territories in a linear path back to 1 neutral at start of turn or something more creative :P)

3) doesn't really sound like you want a victory condition but perhaps own the helipad and gather helicopter parts to escape? :P

Best of luck on your map, and like everyone else said your going to need some more territories... Ill check back on this next week to see if you've gained any steam
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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby MarshalNey on Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:35 am

Top Dog wrote:thanks for all the advice... I definitely am considering starting points like in feudal war to give players a chaotic start the the game...


As long as you aren't thinking of putting in huge neutral stacks (or even 3s or 2s) like in Feudal War I'm happy... hate to say it but that map bugs me, even if it is popular. And players should start with more than just the starting points too (again unlike Feudal War), I think.

Lurkerleader's stationary weapons sound like a great idea, btw.

Top Dog wrote:And yes zombies need to make their way to CC... I mean... how else will the public be prepared for the invasion starting in Dec. 2012 and coming in full effect sometime the following year?!


hee!
:lol:
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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby lgoasklucyl on Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:48 am

Damn! I had crazy ideas and a sketch or two for a zombie map >.<

Oh well. If this one goes through I could always make it some other "post-apocalyptic" theme that would fit my map. Gotta get Central America finished first ](*,)
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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby MarshalNey on Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:27 am

lgoasklucyl wrote:Damn! I had crazy ideas and a sketch or two for a zombie map >.<

Oh well. If this one goes through I could always make it some other "post-apocalyptic" theme that would fit my map. Gotta get Central America finished first ](*,)


Maybe you two could collaborate? In my experience projects are always more likely to finish when two people with a like mind are fuelling each other.

Top Dog is really just in the idea-stage right now anyway, the map is very basic and as he said will be redone from scratch. If you have any opinions on ideas already presented, or sketches or ideas of your own, feel free to fire away!
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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:15 pm

I really can't be asked to read all of Marshall Ney's post but here we are again with another zombies map idea. Unfortunately zombies have a history of not making it to the forge. Let's hope the latest attempt will have more spirit.

First off... there's an XML suggestion waiting to be implemented called Zombie Neutrals. While its been waiting to be implemented, its worth knowing about if you're going to make a zombies map.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=40294

There's a lot of potential for this XML update and a zombies map.

Next, I'd like to see more zombies. Hordes of zombies.

What if the buildings could bombard or one way attack zombies? Perhaps one way attack zombies near the building and bombard them further away? I'm thinking of the scene in the recent Dawn of the Dead where they're picking zombies off from the roof.

Also, what about an objective? Put a helicopter in the center of the map with 8 buildings as starting positions? Perhaps have a variety of escape routes, hold any to win? (Maybe a river with a boat, armored vehicle from a bank, helicopter... secret tunnel... teleportation pad (now I'm stretching it, lol).
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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby Mad-elph on Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:23 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:...

Also, what about an objective? Put a helicopter in the center of the map with 8 buildings as starting positions? Perhaps have a variety of escape routes, hold any to win? (Maybe a river with a boat, armored vehicle from a bank, helicopter... secret tunnel... teleportation pad (now I'm stretching it, lol).


Oh I really like that idea. Everyone starts in a building (or outside one) they can build a base inside and have two options to hit other people, run through zombies to the middle and attack any building they want, or run through zombies all the way to the opponent. Great suggestion.
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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby Top Dog on Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:02 pm

Lol... lot's of great ideas! keep 'em coming! I like the idea of a shotgun/sniper/etc with the bombardment idea... What do you guys think about all armies on the streets lose X amount of armies each turn (just like in Oasis)?

And as to a collaborative effort, I most likely would need a partner for the XML cuz I have no idea what that would take and I have no experience with it at all... Or more immediately, with the graphics. As you can tell I'm no prodigy with editing programs so maybe I'll release a v.2 and then if anyone wants to jump in and help I'd definitely appreciate it... Mostly help with making buildings more than a square and adding some "eye-candy" like a shotty or sniper here and there (representing the bombardment thing)

I'm planning on taking more complex design classes in the future and as of right now my design skills are somewhat limited, so I'm not sure how far I alone can get. back to V.2 (I'm guessing nearly double the terr. and perhaps 2 more bonus zones... we'll see)
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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby Top Dog on Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:58 pm

I have an awesome idea I'm working on that's turning out pretty well for v.2
only problem is... if I'm considering "spawn points" for 8 people... I'm gonna have to fit in 2 more spawns... and I'm sure it's not possible to make a 6 player maximum for a map is it?

My current Idea that I'm working on is to have 6 regions (lightly shaded 6 colors) and owning the entire region gives a bonus and the building complex (or group of buildings) gives another bonus...

AKA- Green region would be made up of a "mall" with 3-4 terr. then there would be 3-4 street terr. (having the -1 each turn) and owning the mall would give a bonus but owning "Green" region would give a slightly bigger bonus... I'll finish up the version, post it, then maybe I'll have some ideas to make the map even bigger to add 2 more spawns...

Otherwise it's not all that bad to have just random placement, but I do kinda wanna resemble feudal a little bit as it is one of my favorite maps for gameplay...
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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:08 pm

Don't sweat XML. Once you get to that point, 1) there's a lot of useful tools that make it easy and 2) there is a great foundry staff who will really help you out. Don't let XMLing hold you back a bit.

You can not make a 6 player map, squeeze two more buildings in there.

And it strikes me unusual that holding a building would save anyone during a zombie plague. It's more about what's in the building that will save you, ie food, water, guns, books, entertainment (so you don't go crazy, lol). Perhaps the building is worthless and you can have various items inside the building that you can occupy to get a bonus.

As for the zombies... I'd like to see killer neutral zombies. Fact is, you don't go on the streets if there's zombies there. Having a -1 pr round is more like there's deadly gas out there that wears away at you.

Also, if this is zombies, i think you should stray away from street territories and head in a supermax yard style design. That way you have to hack your way through hordes to get safe.

You should consider various safe points though, like a locked car, sewer manhole, telephone booth, ect. that a player can utilize while making a dash through the streets.

Also... you should consider looking at the way Dolomite's monsters is set up for zombie ideas. I think it might have some potential.
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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby Top Dog on Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:26 am

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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby Rih0 on Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:17 am

seems better now, but If there are parking lots, there should be at least 1 street in the middle of the map, don`t you think?
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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby Top Dog on Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:29 pm

Next version/draft I plan on replacing the residential district with a school, thanks to Marshal Ney's idea, and adding a street horizontally across the middle of the map, thanks to Riho's idea. I'm also considering scrapping the Restaurant, but I'd have to come up with an alternative to that then... With adding the road, and perhaps 1 more territory per zone, I'd come out with a little over 40 terr. which I believe is a decent small-mid sized map. Again, post any ideas, especially if you can think of a way/sketch up a way that I could get 8 starting locations like I originally planned...

Quick question: anyone know what happens in an 8 player feudal war game? cuz there are only 6 castles... because that is basically the same situation I'm in right now... 6 spawn points... if anyone knows the answer I'd appreciate knowing.
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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby Industrial Helix on Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:55 pm

Feudal War, I believe, was originally created back when CC only supported 6 players. When CC made the transition to 8 players, Feudal war remained at six. try starting an 8 player Feudal War game, not allowed. The current rule is that all maps must support 8 players unless given an exception by lackattack himself. The only recent exception in memory that I know of is Research and Conquer, but fromwhat I undrstand it took about a year to get it.
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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby Top Dog on Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:40 pm

v.3.0-
http://s826.photobucket.com/albums/zz183/topdog12/?action=view&current=ZombieLand3legend.jpg
Or Check 1st post for Image-
If you have suggestions for the Title, Legend, Gameplay, Graphics, Special Attacks, Objectives, etc. or any comments plzzz leave them... If you think v.1 was better than v.2 or v.2 was better than v.3 then TELL ME... I'm not going to be the only one playing the map if it is released (hopefully :-s )

Also, what would you guys think about a 1-way attack from North Lot, Parking Lot, D - Wing, and the shed to the roadway? I'm thinking about the road being worth 1 per terr. but they are also being affected by zombies to make them harder to keep... lemme know
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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby MarshalNey on Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:57 am

V.3 is a big improvement, I know there'll be many more to go, but this map is much more concrete visually; the bonus regions are clear, barriers are clearer, and of course it has a bonus legend now which helps even if the numbers may change. Yay! :)

You've also added the rule-set you were considering into your original post, which will help visitors a lot. Looking at the Overview Post, however, there's a few questions I have-

1) You say there are only 3 territories in the Overview Post but I count 38 total. Are you meaning something else by territory?

2) As I put in my postscript to my original (overlong, yes) post, and as Industrial Helix mentioned, "zombie neutrals" is a feature that may be added in the near future to this site (or it may take years...). In your Overview Post, you talk about Killer Neutrals as if they may be added, which makes me unsure if this has been confused with Zombie Neutrals.

To clarify (if it is needed) Killer Neutrals are a feature already working on CC. A "killer neutral" territory is one that resets to a specified number of neutrals at the end of being held for 1 round. I don't know how this feature's variables can be played with, but I know it exists on some maps already. I'm pretty sure that a 1-stack of killer neutrals is possible, though.

Zombie Neutrals, on the other hand, would be a feature that slowly added troops to all neutral stacks, and then had them become aggressive, which would of course enhance this map greatly if set up right.

As for the map itself, how big of a map would you be willing to make it into (is there an upper limit)?
And along those lines, are you scrapping the idea of starting points?

I think having the roads as a bonus region is OK, especially if there's more put there- I liked the suggestion of a manhole, or a news stand or something to act as a safe haven. +1 per tert might be too much, though. Then again, if it resets to 1 neutral, it would make the bonus sort of a negative too, so maybe it would work.

Are the "core" areas of each bonus region meant to be 'safe' and the rest of the region 'infested'? Is that idea even still up for consideration?

What's the thinking behind the 1-way attack route, for thematic purposes that is?
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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby natty dread on Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:25 am

use [bigimg] tags for posting map images. like this:

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Zombie Invasion

Postby Top Dog on Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:27 am

Sorry for the confusion:
1) 3 was a typo, it was meant to be 38... My bad there...
2)I also was unaware of the difference between killer neutrals and zombie neutrals... I have been referring to zombie neutrals.
3)Size is undecided yet... I was planning on 50 or less, after lurkerleader's post under me, I'm considering that... but that would require waaay smaller territories and probably close to or more than 50, and I'm not sure how it would turn out... I'll give it a try.
4)Starting Points will all depend on if I can come up with an idea to place them... It also depends on my FINAL layout. so they aren't scrapped and aren't for sure gonna be added.
5)The idea of CORE areas being safe all else is infected is a possibility... I may have zombie's start in the streets, and the -X per turn outside buildings... Again haven't given it too much thought...
6)My 1-way attack idea was just to see what you guys thought, I don't want it, I don't not want it, just thought I'd bring up the possibility...
-TD
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