COPENHAGEN 1801 ‹v1›

[the.killing.44]

C O P E N H A G E N

Vital Info:
Territory count (player-starting terts): 96 (48)
Continents: I have no clue
Special things: Neutrals, bombardment, one-way attacks, special bonuses, you name it

Current Version (Large)

Click image to enlarge.

To-Do:

something other than triangles for ships
note Parker's Reserve is not part of the British "+3 for 6"
find some captain names for those three missing Danes

Suggestions:

…

Nota Bene:

Territories in red are to be divided amongst all players (including neutral in 1v1); red and green territories (Batteries) represent starting positions

[mibi]

what the f*ck. Are you the bastard child of Carins and Quert? This looks like someones vertabrae.

[natty dread]

Personally, I've never liked the battle maps that much. I don't think the Risk format lends itself well for battles... The fundamental problem as I see it is that you can't move the units, they just stand where they are... furthermore, it's a bit confusing, when the territories are "troops", but you need to conquer your "troops" with other troops (the actual troops in the game) if that makes any sense.

However, some maps do quite well with the battle theme. For example, Austerlitz I kinda like. If you manage to do something similar with this, then I'm sold.

[Industrial Helix]

Well... its graphically pleasing save for the lack of ships. The text is hard to read in the lower right... "Captain [unknown] his ship."

Nice use of the long s ∫ thing.

I totally do not understand how the gameplay works... I'm hoping the introduction of ships will help this.

[the.killing.44]

Personally, I've never liked the battle maps that much. I don't think the Risk format lends itself well for battles... The fundamental problem as I see it is that you can't move the units, they just stand where they are... furthermore, it's a bit confusing, when the territories are "troops", but you need to conquer your "troops" with other troops (the actual troops in the game) if that makes any sense.

Not really, sorry.

what the f*ck. Are you the bastard child of Carins and Quert? This looks like someones vertabrae.

Only if mebi is my godfather. No clue how to take the vertebrae comment. Have you seen the nip/tuck posters?

Well... its graphically pleasing save for the lack of ships. The text is hard to read in the lower right... "Captain [unknown] his ship."

I knew I overdid it with the layer mask grunge thingies. I'll make it more legible.

Nice use of the long s ∫ thing.

Thanks…I originally had it on the ships, too, but I figured it would make hell with dropdown users. It's ſ by the way

I totally do not understand how the gameplay works... I'm hoping the introduction of ships will help this.

What's confusing? Not that I don't see how it would be very confusing, but specifically. Troops move by solid lines and bombard by dotted lines.

[MrBenn]

I think some of the attack rules are a bit confusing - and despite the complexities you've incorporated, gameplay is incredibly linear; and possibly seriously flawed (I can;t see any way of capturing Kastellat if you don;t have any of the Batteries).

The logic to the bombardments sort of makes sense (in a Danish-defences-wouldn't-attack-Danish-ships kind of way), but in practice is pretty unrealistic (ie if the British captured those defences, they would use them for their own ends).

While the visual look is good, the gameplay seems to be a bit "meh"...

[TaCktiX]

I would have to echo concerns about the gameplay, but the graphics look right nice (save the lack of ships, as others have noted) for a first draft.

[the.killing.44]

*yawn*

I've done some twiddling, but I need specific things wrong with the gameplay. I've made moving between Danish ships and Kastellat (and indirectly the batteries) easier to do, but I'm at a loss of where to go.

[neanderpaul14]

I like it, looks cool game play appears quite unique. I do agree that ships need to be introduced.

[jefjef]

Ship shaped icons.

[captainwalrus]

The land, it is Denmark, no? Kastellat is a Danish fort? Why does it bombard Danish ships? Why not attack? Also, is there no way to attack from the land territories?

[the.killing.44]

The land, it is Denmark, no? Kastellat is a Danish fort? Why does it bombard Danish ships? Why not attack? Also, is there no way to attack from the land territories?

Yeah that's what I meant by making moving between the Danish ships and the Kastellat easier.

Not quite sure what you were trying to show, jefjef, do you want me to make the icons look like silhouettes? I think I'm going to draw some of my own, though I'm going to get some playable gameplay first, comments permitting.

Thanks, paul. Git s'more comments, please.

[cairnswk]

what the f*ck. Are you the bastard child of Carins and Quert? This looks like someones vertabrae.

Ship shaped icons.

I can't resist this...it's simply too juicy...
You be careful .44
You know how some in the foundry don't like ice-cream cones

[the.killing.44]

what the f*ck. Are you the bastard child of Carins and Quert? This looks like someones vertabrae.

Ship shaped icons.

I can't resist this...it's simply too juicy...
You be careful .44
You know how some in the foundry don't like ice-cream cones

You know I loved Trafalgar. It was the inspiration for this map. Hell, I would've gone with Trafalgar if you didn't already start it

[jefjef]

Yeah that's what I meant by making moving between the Danish ships and the Kastellat easier.

Not quite sure what you were trying to show, jefjef, do you want me to make the icons look like silhouettes? I think I'm going to draw some of my own, though I'm going to get some playable gameplay first, comments permitting.

Yes. The conventional norm on naval battle diagrams are silhouettes and I bet it will fit your map very well.

For the bombard paths are you familiar with the US Ordinance bomb? You could put that in the middle of the bombard paths. Might look good.

Any bonus for holding all batteries? Might want to consider. Probably should be attack paths between them.

Kastellat could have an attack path to Danmark. Or even broaden it. Do Kastellat as a port.

Think batteries should be able to bombard any ships within range. Like if the Brits had boarded one they would surely have fired on it. Works well for game play too.

Is there a 2 way attack between batteries and Kastellat?

Ships able to fire back at batteries? Some should.

Some random thoughts for ya. gl

[WidowMakers]

Personally, I've never liked the battle maps that much. I don't think the Risk format lends itself well for battles... The fundamental problem as I see it is that you can't move the units, they just stand where they are... furthermore, it's a bit confusing, when the territories are "troops", but you need to conquer your "troops" with other troops (the actual troops in the game) if that makes any sense.

I understand what you mean. I piece of land can be conquer and occupied. A ship can be conquered but can also move. The current game engine does not allow the territories to move so maps with ships, planes, vehicle, etc don't really make sense to me either. I mean when I conquer a tank, I want to move it around and shoot. Not just sit there and die.

[Incandenza]

A few initial thoughts:

1. it looks like the other ships in Parker's reserve can only bombard each other, given the dotted line. Might want to make those attack lines, otherwise that part of the map will swiftly become uninhabited (much like england in ww2 europe)
2. the ship+commander bonus is really underpowered, in that I have to kill three neutral 2's (four for the danish) to get a +1. Not going to get a lot of business that way. I'd recommend either raising the bonus or dropping the neutral values (or doing something altogether different, as stated below)
3. Why would someone plow through a 9 on Kastellat just to be able to bombard a handful of danish ships? Granted, said ships are pretty out of the way, but still... maybe give it a small autodeploy bonus to make it worth someone's while.
4. How will the batteries be sorted for 6-8 player games?
5. coming back to the idea of the ship commanders, maybe there's a better way of doing it. This is probably a lame idea, so just kind of weakly lobbing it out there, but what if all the commanders started held by players, and instead of having a shitload of dead-end terits, they could, I dunno, bombard the adjacent friendly ships. I can think of a couple mediocre ways of justifying it within the whole metaphor (a captain sending false signals to his neighbor to get them out of the fight, for instance).
6. So basically the bomb squad can attack those four ships, and bombard any "spaces" (just ships? ships and commanders?) adjacent to those four ships, right? That could be clearer, and you might want to have all instructions pertaining to the bomb squad right there next to the terit, rather than half there and half in the legend.

A lot of these are nitpicks, granted. It's not a bad first draft by any stretch of the imagination. But as always, with gameplay this complex, it's a matter of tweaking.

[the.killing.44]

A few initial thoughts:

1. it looks like the other ships in Parker's reserve can only bombard each other, given the dotted line. Might want to make those attack lines, otherwise that part of the map will swiftly become uninhabited (much like england in ww2 europe)

Funnily enough, I started the map with that area, not knowing the hell what I wanted to make it. So I started with dotted lines and never went back to change it. I'll make them solid.

2. the ship+commander bonus is really underpowered, in that I have to kill three neutral 2's (four for the danish) to get a +1. Not going to get a lot of business that way. I'd recommend either raising the bonus or dropping the neutral values (or doing something altogether different, as stated below)

Very good point, I think I'm going to make the British 3 for +3 and Danish 5 for +4. Unless that's too many?

3. Why would someone plow through a 9 on Kastellat just to be able to bombard a handful of danish ships? Granted, said ships are pretty out of the way, but still... maybe give it a small autodeploy bonus to make it worth someone's while.

Good call, how does +3 sound? I'll make it a neutral 6 as well.

4. How will the batteries be sorted for 6-8 player games?

I'll put some thought into the batteries.

5. coming back to the idea of the ship commanders, maybe there's a better way of doing it. This is probably a lame idea, so just kind of weakly lobbing it out there, but what if all the commanders started held by players, and instead of having a shitload of dead-end terits, they could, I dunno, bombard the adjacent friendly ships. I can think of a couple mediocre ways of justifying it within the whole metaphor (a captain sending false signals to his neighbor to get them out of the fight, for instance).

Well, maybe you do have a good point on the dead-end thing, but that was kind of what I intended to do. Maybe having the players start on the commanders is a better idea, but making them have to go through a neutral to get to the other side (British to Danish, I mean) would be pretty hellish. Ironically (and I don't think you knew this), but your false signals makes a bit of sense as Nelson is famous for disregarding Parker's orders to retreat in this battle.

6. So basically the bomb squad can attack those four ships, and bombard any "spaces" (just ships? ships and commanders?) adjacent to those four ships, right? That could be clearer, and you might want to have all instructions pertaining to the bomb squad right there next to the terit, rather than half there and half in the legend.

Yes, that's all good and I'll fix it

A lot of these are nitpicks, granted. It's not a bad first draft by any stretch of the imagination. But as always, with gameplay this complex, it's a matter of tweaking.

Thanks a ton for the comments, this is exactly what I wanted. I don't need overall gameplay discussion, as I know it's hard to do, but even little bits and pieces of gameplay glitches you can find in a preliminary draft would be so great.

I'm not going to make the ships until I'm at least at sticky. I may be taking a week or two of from this for the contest. Thanks all.

[lt_oddball]

I suggested it in Trafalgar once..it got snowed under, and eventually the Trafalgar map faltered.

Now, you want a ship/tank/force to MOVE on the map instead of going ship/tank/force hopping over a static set map.

There IS a way to do it:

Have a map with a fixed set starting positions of the ships (beginning of battle). From ALL these ships emanate sail paths criss-cross the map.
Each ship should CHOOSE a path (as in choose a sailing direction). on these lines are dotted neutrals that you have to conquer in order to PROGRESS.

Meanwhile your conquered dots BEHIND you suffer from an ATTRITION so that you HAVE to MOVE (in practice ALL dots suffer from an attrition towards neutral..some FASTER than OTHERS..play with that concept).
At CERTAIN dots you are allowed to BOMBARD a certain set of OTHER dots of the OTHER ships' lines (in ship map: more or less perpendicular to your dot tangent).
Sometimes two ship lines MERGE sothat there WILL be a confrontation between two players.

Opposition is killed thus by bombardment, merge kills (like entering), standard attrition (boat leaks) and in fact bad dices.

*--0-0____/--0---0¦
#--0-¦----0_______\-0----0--¦
____0--0----0----0------0-----O----0----0
____ = space (or else this picture gets screwed..).

* = ship 1, # = ship 2 0 = dot /location. maybe bombardment, maybe not O = merge (entering).

(above "sketch" looks bad --discrepancy between typing page and printing page.. )

This concept makes any new naval battle game a fresh one.
Still some history can be implemented by choosing the paths such that a certain ship can enter more than the other, can bombard more often than the other, can bombard further away lines than the other, some have tougher attrition rate than the other.
Lots to play with.

Bonus is not based on keeping a set of dots, but in keeping a certain (merge?) dot ..or keeping a certain amount of dots on a string... or keeping at least a number of dots on x number of different ship lines...
Lots of freedom to tweak.

succes


add:
I tried to do a handsketch and already it looks like a mess if every ship gets their own set of sail-lines.
solution: work with a whole flotilla. The bundle of "troops" spread out over a few dots on a particular line is not one ship but represents your "flotilla strength".
Do make sure the saillines have some sort of loop so that "flotillas" can sail "endlessly" if have to (unless it ends on a sandbank )

As you want max. 8 players you'll have to think about 8 separate flotillas (4 danes, 4 british).

add2.
Instead of set saillines you could work with open hexagons (with auto attrition on each haxgon!). Attacking another coloured hexagon would be something like entering the other flotilla.
If a partner player is blocking some hexagons..you simply don't attack..or (some cases in multplayer it pays off..to collect partner's cards!) you do.
To model the wind in one direction ; you can move /attack further hexagons always in the same direction (that is not difficult to XML).
The trouble is a fixed Bombardment direction perpendicular to your flotilla movement for each hexagon;
solution: as a flotilla you can always turn some or all of your ships in or against the wind to point your bombardment guns in any hexagon direction...

Yes, I think that is the way to do it.

See http://www.youplay.it/play/cp_GamesPeoplePlay.asp for inspiration. (nothing visible when not logged on :s )
or rules:
http://www.youplay.it/play/ws_GameRulesSimple.asp

[iancanton]

this looks like the start of something interesting, .44. will u be coming back to it?

ian.