The CUBE

[paulk]

What do you folks think of a possible change of the name system to something like this:

[sinctheassasin]

The graphics are already hammered out.

not until you receive that graphics stamp (or have you, and its just not in the title or in the first post)

The map you provided is also in only 3 layers, not 4, and there is a significant visual difference.

but the gist remains the same, im going to like a map a lot more if i dont get a headache from looking at it

If you look at this threads initial post you can find several maps with only white rods, and I had to change those just because people were complaining that it was too hard to navigate in such a structure.

then find a way so that it doesnt look like a fricken mess!!! maybe use shades of grey! make the colors a little fainter, tint the whites! I'm not the artist, so i cant play around with the colors as you can

LOL, you really make me smile.

if you dont respect the people who give you decent suggestions, they might just stop giving them to you
in fact, it looks like besides skeletonboy questioning the placement of the thread, your map has been pretty slow since a month ago.... you should be thanking people for giving you feedback, not give them a smartass grin... verbally anyway.


I'm not sure if anybody else supports my opinions, but its my duty to provide feedback to map makers!

[paulk]

I did not mean any disrespect.

It is only the fact that this map is in 3D, therefore a bit more tricky to "see" and a lot of people have had their say in the design, and I have tried to accommodate all wishes.
But each version will never please everyone.
For example, my personal favorite and the one I find simplest to navigate in is also one of the earliest:



But I am a pure strategist, I care more about the gameplay and that it is easy to see, than that the background is fancy.
I made this map to play, not to hang around the forum for years...

[paulk]

Just to accommodate you:

[sinctheassasin]

yes, the older one is actually probably the easier to navigate with the plain backdrop, and the soft pastels for the connections...

I actually prefer the plain whites to the colors, its looks organized, and simplistic, like a cube.

[iancanton]

i am happy to confirm that version 34 with 2 start positions of 4 balls each (y1-y3-y5-y7 and y2-y4-y6-y8) meets the requirements for the gameplay stamp. remember to update the opening post to show what happens when there are more than 2 players (either all yellow balls randomly-allocated or all yellow balls neutral).

we now need to move to the graphics workshop for detailed feedback on the look of the map. onward and upward!



ian.

[paulk]

jippi kay-eye!

[paulk]

1st post changed to following:

Initial placement:
There will be 2 start positions of 4 yellow balls each, on opposite corners of the yellow core mini cube:
y1-y3-y5-y7
y2-y4-y6-y8
To avoid unfair starting positions the yellow balls are divided between the players so you get 4 yellow balls in a 1 vs 1 game, 2 yellow balls in a 3-4 player game and 1 yellow ball in 5-8 player games.
In the event of 3 or more players are all yellow balls randomly allocated from either y1-y3-y5-y7 or y2-y4-y6-y8, so there is no chance to start with 2 connected yellow balls.
The left over inner yellow balls start as neutral 3.
All other (outer) balls are randomly divided.

In a 2 player game this means 22 starter balls each and 20 neutrals. (0 of the neutrals yellow)
In a 3 player game this means 20 starter balls each and 4 neutrals. (2 of the neutrals yellow)
In a 4 player game this means 16 starter balls each and 0 neutrals. (0 of the neutrals yellow)
In a 5 player game this means 12 starter balls each and 4 neutrals. (3 of the neutrals yellow)
In a 6 player game this means 10 starter balls each and 4 neutrals. (2 of the neutrals yellow)
In a 7 player game this means 9 starter balls each and 1 neutrals. (1 of the neutrals yellow)
In a 8 player game this means 8 starter balls each and 0 neutrals. (0 of the neutrals yellow)

Previous alternative: All yellow verticles/balls start with neutral 2.

[paulk]

yes, the older one is actually probably the easier to navigate with the plain backdrop, and the soft pastels for the connections...

I actually prefer the plain whites to the colors, its looks organized, and simplistic, like a cube.

I hear you.
I don't really know what to push for though, since some people want it in multi color and others like you want it plain.
I hope it will be sorted out in the graphics department.
In worst case we have to vote for it, lol.
And in that case I personally will vote for the one with gray background.

[sinctheassasin]

yes, the older one is actually probably the easier to navigate with the plain backdrop, and the soft pastels for the connections...

I actually prefer the plain whites to the colors, its looks organized, and simplistic, like a cube.

I hear you.
I don't really know what to push for though, since some people want it in multi color and others like you want it plain.
I hope it will be sorted out in the graphics department.
In worst case we have to vote for it, lol.
And in that case I personally will vote for the one with gray background.

maybe some sort of minor tinting on the silver connectors???? the grey background should definatly be the backdrop, if any (its also my favorite out of the rest)

[paulk]

If you check out this original thread you will see that the gray background got a lot of negative feedback.

[Rakio]

The colours and the look of the map dont work at all for me. I get dizzy by looking at it. Also it has an illusion effect which makes the centre of the balls blink.
Wouldnt the colour be a issue for the colour blind?

Maybe have different shapes or lines for different areas?

Looking forward to play balanced and strategic map.

[zimmah]

why on earth use black text for the numbers on a black background? it's unreadbale

[zimmah]

hmmm... this is a map i definatly cant wait to play...

but a few graphic issues (since i believe, this is what we are working on now? )

yeah, first off. the cube itself looks very... boggling for some reason. the colors arent really doing it... are you signifying the cubelets, the squares maybe? Because all I see is really a jumbled mess of colored lines, no matter how you say you group them together

second... just a little nit pick here, the text at the bottom right, is very annoying to read. white on blue and white is not a good color choice... It's a lot of instructions, and a striking color would not fit onto the backdrop of earth and the stars... maybe you could stamp/paint out earth?

not sure if you have decided on any of these things yet... I cannot wait to see the next update!

This map is not for the weak. It is a challenge to see beyond the surface and truly take in the 3D structure.
I have tried many different versions of the design, and this version with the sides in different colors seem to be the one that most people can understand.

I am sorry to hear that you find it to be a jumbled mess. But please, give me a suggestion on what might be a better solution! We have 4 layers of balls. To me the current solution is the easiest to navigate in.

About the text. Yes, it is small. Yes, it is white with black border on white and blue over the earth.
But honestly, there is no satisfying alternative. And besides, the text is very much readable, and after you have read it once or twice, you should be able to know it by heart without reading it again. Then it actually is a good thing that it harmonizes with the background.

I hope you will like the end result, that I hope is near. Happy New Year.

for me, the yellowq cube is easiest to see, will it work if you make like, a few smaller cubes like the yellow one, one for every side, and color the lines in a cube pattern, instead of the pattern you use now? might make it easier to see.

btw, if you need someone to write the xml, i can do that, it seems like in a map like this, you'll need somoene with a little experience. and since i allready did 3 maps, i know my way around. just give me a call.

[paulk]

There are a few different ways to color the rods (and balls):

1) All in white.
2) All in white with the core in yellow.
3) 4 different colors + white - One color for each level in depth and white in between.
4) 7 different colors + white - One color for each of the 6 sides, 1 for the yellow core and white for the edge rods of the whole cube.
5) 9 different colors + white - One minicube rods colored in every corner of the whole cube + yellow core cube + white rods in between
6) 3 different colors - yellow core + white for the edge rods of the whole cube + black rods in between.

There are 192 rods and 64 balls. Each one might have to be individually colored because of the depth of the image so each major change takes time.

[Edge o time]

For the numbers you could use X, Y, and Z axis with corresponding numbers like math. like 132 would be 1st line on the x axis, 3rd line on the y axis and 2nd on the z axis. If familiar with the system at all you would be able to find the stuff really fast and easy. sorry if this idea has already been said or simply sucks

[Edge o time]

I love the cube idea though, I think it would bypass some of the luck in the initial placement and add strategy in it's stead

[Rakio]

Do they all really have to be balls?
Try different shapes, it might be easier for the eye.

[paulk]

For the numbers you could use X, Y, and Z axis with corresponding numbers like math. like 132 would be 1st line on the x axis, 3rd line on the y axis and 2nd on the z axis. If familiar with the system at all you would be able to find the stuff really fast and easy. sorry if this idea has already been said or simply sucks

Yes, I have been considering that, but I always thought that it would be too hard for some players to understand.
I might do a test run with different coordinate systems later and let people put their vote on what they think is best.
Alternatives:
A-P and 1-4 = first coordinate system
ABCD - 1234 -wxyz = one for each XYZ axis
1-8 a number for each corner + a letter for each face and the core = current system
1234 - 1234 -1234 = one for each XYZ axis

[paulk]

Do they all really have to be balls?
Try different shapes, it might be easier for the eye.

Considering the 3D shape, and that it should fit in the smaller map version as well, I think that balls are the only choice.
Squares would be nice, but they would take up too much space and not provide a good space for troops numbers.
Ovals? nah... Triangles? No way. Cylinders? Don't harmonize with the cube structure. I don't see any other option than balls.

[a.sub]

Do they all really have to be balls?
Try different shapes, it might be easier for the eye.

Considering the 3D shape, and that it should fit in the smaller map version as well, I think that balls are the only choice.
Squares would be nice, but they would take up too much space and not provide a good space for troops numbers.
Ovals? nah... Triangles? No way. Cylinders? Don't harmonize with the cube structure. I don't see any other option than balls.

quite the contrary a square/rectangle would be more fitting than a circle
a circle would have space in all directions that are unsuable, because the numbers are rectangles (rectangles cant fi perfectly in circles)
where as a rectangle would have 100% of its area used since a rectangle would better hold a rectangle

its almost a square peg in a round hole complex literally

[paulk]

quite the contrary a square/rectangle would be more fitting than a circle
a circle would have space in all directions that are unsuable, because the numbers are rectangles (rectangles cant fi perfectly in circles)
where as a rectangle would have 100% of its area used since a rectangle would better hold a rectangle

its almost a square peg in a round hole complex literally

I disagree.
The map balls are 3D spheres.


If a cube or a box would replace it, a 3D representation would have 3 sides.
It would require more space which would make it hard to fit all squares, especially on the smaller map.
The rods would have to fit in the middle of each side which would be a hinder to put any numbers on a clean surface.
The numbers would because of the shape and small space be likely to be pasted over an edge/corner which I guess would look just bad.

[yeti_c]

Could you put some test army numbers in your balls so that we can see how they work...

Suggest numbers with single digits, doubles & triples.

C.

[Rakio]

Actually I dont really mind the balls, I think I didnt made my point thoroughly in the first posts.

Would you have anything against making the balls in different textures? Just add in some irregularities or patterns(in grey if you want).

Is it just me or does the clear grey balls hurt to the eyes now? Illusionary.

[captainwalrus]

Possibly making the names of the territories in the front darker and then have them get slightly more faint as they move back in the rows will help with the visualization of a cube.