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Settlers of Conquer Club

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Settlers of Conquer Club

Postby Doc_Brown on Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:02 am

This is an idea I came up with a couple weeks ago and have been mulling over off and on until I think I have a reasonable concept. As might be gathered from the name, this map is inspired by the board game "Settlers of Catan." I think it will be sufficiently different so as not to have infringement issues (http://games.asobrain.com gets away with having an online version of the game simply by renaming it to XPlorers and keeping all the same gameplay elements, so I think a CC map that shares some features with the original game won't be a problem). I did dig through the archives, and it looks like this idea has come up twice before but was never really developed into a workable map, which is where I think my approach is unique.

First, I am not a graphic designer by any stretch. I can probably figure this out on my own, though it's going to take time. I'm certainly not opposed to any graphics assistance if someone would like to work with me. Also, I'm pretty busy with work and family, so if this idea catches on, development is going to be somewhat slow.

General Concept:
I'm trying to capture the spirit of the Settlers of Catan game, much the way the Chess map works. The pieces from the board game are already in place and provide bonuses in a similar manner to what the board game gives. I want someone that is familiar with the Catan game to look at the map and be able to anticipate how the bonuses might work once they have the general idea. Conversely, to someone that has never played Catan, this might be a pretty complex map, but I don't want it to be too much more so than say "Age of Merchants"

All caveats aside, here's a very rough sketch of what I'm thinking about:
Click image to enlarge.
image

  • Yellow hexagons are wheat fields, Dark green ones are forests, light green ones are sheep pastures, brown ones are clay pits, and grey ones are stone quarries. The pinkish hexagon is the desert.
  • The small house-looking structures are farms (equivalent to the Catan "settlements"), and the castle-looking structures are villages (think "cities" from the Catan games).
  • The colored lines along the edges of some of the hexagons are roads. The small white circles are the territories, and the territory connections are along all the edges of the inner hexagons.
  • The large circles at the edges are markets (Catan "ports") that offer bonuses. The markets are not separate territories but are accessed by controlling the connected farm. The white markets are general markets, and the colored ones only trade in the resource of the matching color.

Bonuses:
  • Farms autodeploy 1 per turn (or give +1 bonus?)
  • Villages autodeploy 2 per turn (or give +2 bonus?)
  • If you control the entire length of 5 consecutive road segments, all of the same color, you get +2 bonus.
  • Resource bonuses: Each farm collects 1 resource unit from each of the 1-3 resource types surrounding them. Villages collect two of each of the surrounding resource units. For every 4 of a single resource type, you get a +1 bonus. For example, the red regions collects 6 clay resources per turn (2 villages on clay pits collect 2 each and 2 farms collect 1 each for a total of 6). That gives a +1 bonus.
    (Aside: It might be nice to be able to roll extra resources from one round to the next, but I'm not sure if that's possible. I have an idea of how it might work using hidden territories, but I'm not sure if even that is possible. Point for future thought though.)
  • If you control a general market, the resource bonus is +1 for every 3 of a given resource collected each turn (instead of every 4). In the example given above, whoever controlled the red farms and villages would receive +2 armies each turn.
  • The resource-specific markets give a +1 bonus for every 2 of a given resource collected each turn. (This replaces the 1/4 normal bonus and the 1/3 general market bonus.) As an example, if you control all the orange farms and villages, you collect 5 stone per turn, and the stone port gives you a +2 bonus.
  • Possibly farms and villages on the desert receive a -1. I can use this to balance things if any single color is receiving significantly higher bonuses than the others.

Note that the territories that don't contain a road, farm, or village, are not part of any bonus. On the other hand, the farm and village territories are generally part of a variety of bonuses at the same time.

Gameplay Ideas:
I was thinking about using the 16 farms as starting points. Each player would receive two farms as his only starting territories.
To win the game, you have to control all farms, villages, and road segments (both ends) of any single color.

Additional thoughts:
  • It may be necessary to specify that markets only work for the corresponding color. For example, if you grab the orange-colored stone port, you can't increase the bonus by grabbing up the green, blue, and red farms and villages surrounding the quarries. It would allow that one bonus to be as high as +7 per turn in addition to all the other small bonuses.
  • I'm also considering not giving a territory bonus since there are so many bonuses already present on the map. That may make things difficult to start the game, but it would be easier if the initial deploy was 5 in each farm or something.
  • Since the empty territories aren't worth anything, it might be best to start them all with 1 neutral. Road segments (without farms or villages) would have 3 neutrals. Farms not initially controlled by a player would start with 5 neutrals, and villages would start with 8.
  • I'll need to tweak the layout some. I tried to set it up so that two people couldn't win at the same time. As it currently stands, someone could control all the red territories, and another person could control all the blue territories without interfering with each other. I also want to try to make sure no single color will naturally get larger bonuses than the others. I haven't added everything up to make sure it's properly balanced yet.
Last edited by Doc_Brown on Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Settlers of Conquer Club

Postby zimmah on Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:34 pm

copyright?
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Re: Settlers of Conquer Club

Postby Doc_Brown on Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:57 pm

zimmah wrote:copyright?

Not quite sure what the question is. Are you asking about potential copyright issues with the Catan games? That's what I was addressing in the first paragraph. I'll be using all original artwork for this map. I won't be copying any of the Catan terminology (no settlements, cities, ports, development cards, longest road, robber, victory points, largest army, etc...). "Catan" will not be present anywhere on the map (and I don't think "settlers" will cause a copyright violation since Settlers of Catan is only one of the multiple Catan games).

I think it would be very hard to get any sort of copyright violations from this map. Certainly, a site like http://games.asobrain.com/, which has a functional internet-based equivalent to Settlers of Catan (as well as the Cities and Knights and Seafarers games) with the only real differences being the name (XPlorers) and the artwork, would appear far more likely to attract lawyers (and they have around 2500 people online playing Catan at any given time as opposed to the few dozen that might be playing using this map). I'm not trying to say we can violate copyright since someone else does. I fully agree that's not a good position to take. What I'm questioning is whether this map would constitute any sort of copyright violations given the changes required just to play this as a CC-style game rather than as a Catan-style game. I'm certainly open to feedback on this issue. Maybe the foundry moderators can offer comment as to whether the whole idea should be scrapped to avoid any chance of even approaching copyright issues.

Alternatively, can you think of changes I could make to avoid problems? Would it help if I smoothed out the outer edges of the island and took away the hexagonal ocean tiles? I was kind of planning to do that anyway. I'd like to keep the hexagons for the various resource spots, but I could certainly put the island in the middle of an ocean that didn't consist of hexagons. I could also try to round out the hexagonal edges of the coastline if you think that would help, though I'd prefer to avoid this if possible.
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Re: Settlers of Conquer Club

Postby Doc_Brown on Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:25 pm

Anyone have any thoughts on this map?
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Re: Settlers of Conquer Club

Postby MarshalNey on Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:24 am

Well, the idea isn't bad... but it's a lot of rules to wade through without a gripping gameplay concept. I've played Catan several times, and it was nice enough as a social trading game. It even had a semi-unique feature in that it was competitive, but not a conquer-their-territory game. It was actually more of a race to a victory objective, where players could indirectly interfere with each other's plans, but couldn't take away any "locked in" points accumulated toward the win.

Unfortunately, none of this really comes across. Your post was very well laid out for such a very involved set of rules, btw, I hope you don't despair about posting map ideas. It's just that the current set of rules seem to keep all the... technical aspects, I guess, of the Catan game. However, the "trading" really disappears, as does the race to a victory objective for the most part. A 13-territory victory objective isn't as extreme as for some quenched maps, but really once you've gotten strong enough to take and hold 13 specific terts spread about the map, you're probably on your way to winning the game anyway.

Or to put it another way- in order to be a victory objective-centered map, the objective shouldn't be something that one would want to acquire anyway in the course of building their power base. Rather, it should be something that one has to pursue in spite of the existence easier targets that give better bonuses (see 3rd Crusade as an example).

If you could find a way to capture more of the grand themes of Catan- trading and dealmaking (not sure off the top of my head how to do this), race to a victory objective (this is very possible), and being able to "lock in" advancement toward the objective (feasibility is iffy)- then you'd have something I could rally behind.
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Re: Settlers of Conquer Club

Postby Coleman on Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:44 am

Welcome gentleman. TO TRADEMARK HELL!!! :twisted:

Most likely not possible for reasons already mentioned. We never mentioned risk in the original classic map but Hasbro still went medieval on us. Although, that was because the gameplay was very very close to identical (we had one attack route that was different) and it is unlikely this will be able to be too similar to its obvious inspiration material in gameplay. :-k

So it might be possible, but CC is a very paranoid bunch when it comes to this sort of thing. It'll be a tough uphill battle that might ultimately lead nowhere at the last possible moment.
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Re: Settlers of Conquer Club

Postby Doc_Brown on Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:29 am

Thanks for the comments. I see what you mean about the victory condition aspect. Do you think it would play better without the victory condition in place? I'm having trouble coming up with a good variation on victory conditions that would be in any way reminiscent of the original game but still play well here. I also wanted to avoid having multiple victory conditions in a way that would allow more than one person to claim victory simultaneously. To that end, I was trying to get every color intersecting with all other colors. Perhaps I could extend all the color roads a bit? The extra roads wouldn't count for points or extra armies, but would be necessary to satisfy the victory conditions. On the other hand, if each player started with a single village (instead of 2 farms), they would only exist on one side of the map, and it would be rather out of their way to reach all the way to the other side of the map where the rest of the like-color structures are located. I might need to tweak the positioning of the villages and the proximity of the two sides for some some of the colors to prevent any one player from getting a significant advantage.

I don't think it will be possible to really incorporate the resource trading aspect of Catan. There's just no way for the CC mechanic to provide for any sort of exchange of materials. However, by including merchant fleets and a resource collection mechanic as part of the bonuses, I'm hoping to at least provide some of the feel of the original game. I'd also note that in many of the Catan games I played it was actually somewhat rare that people would trade with each other. It still happened, but it was most common early in the game and only if you didn't already have a nice lead on everyone else. So I think it's possible to leave out the trading aspect without losing the spirit of the game.

I had another idea that would push this map even farther away from the copyright issues. The map does not have to be confined to regular hexagons. I'd still want to keep the same number of territories and the same essential layout, but the resource areas could be distorted into more realistic shapes. The biggest difficulty with that would be the naming convention for each of the territories. Right now every single territory is at the border of 3 hexagons. I could provide a name for each of the hexagons, and the names of the territories would be given by the combination of the three adjacent hexagons. Certainly the outer ring of ocean tiles will be replaced with a realistic coastline, and the Catan-style ports will be replaced with docks and merchant fleets. Basically, I want this map to end up such that someone browsing through the maps could look at it and not immediately say, "That looks just like Catan!" but that once they started playing it they would think, "This actually reminds me of Catan." I'm not 100% certain I can do that, but I think removing the terminology, changing the farm and village graphics to something much less like what you see in the Catan board game, changing the hexagon graphics to something unique (and possibly distorting them at least somewhat), and providing a realistic coastline should be enough to prevent copyright issues.
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Re: Settlers of Conquer Club

Postby Coleman on Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:38 pm

I guarantee to get farther you'll need to make all those changes you just mentioned and post a new draft. I wish you luck good sir.
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Re: Settlers of Conquer Club

Postby sm8900 on Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:13 pm

hey, this looks great. just posted something similar. you've got my vote. thanks!
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Re: Settlers of Conquer Club

Postby Doc_Brown on Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:57 pm

Thanks for the comments guys. I'm working on a better version of the map, and hopefully I'll have something worth posting early next week.
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Re: Settlers of Conquer Club

Postby MrBenn on Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:05 pm

Coleman wrote:I guarantee to get farther you'll need to make all those changes you just mentioned and post a new draft. I wish you luck good sir.

He speaks with the voice of wisdom and experience ;-)
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