Actors Mafia Endgame: Town Wins

[safariguy5]

All that post adds up to "please don't lynch me guy's I'm the town vig". Your "evidence" backing you up is a PR that you never specified until spiesr did for you.

I believe in actions speaking louder than words. You don't present a particularly compelling case, you made some kills that seem extremely weak in reasoning. Bandwagonning in and of itself does not convict. If anything, you should have NKed edoc as he rushed the hammer which was far scummier than people "bandwagonning" especially if it ended up being the lynch.

And add to that, you vigged someone on even more questionable reasoning night 1. The best way for a vig to clear himself is to not get all trigger happy and start shooting night 1. You clearly stated that you knew that, but you went ahead and did it anyways.

Basically, a very poor playing of a town vig if you really are, with a kill that severely handicapped town, and a pretty weak fakeclaim of vig if you are the SKer.

Decent case+weak defense=I'm not buying the claim.

[spiesr]

I'd like if we could discuss things a bit more before anyone gets hammer-happy, if one of you wouldn't mind...

Is your role Overeager Vig, or just regular vig?

[pancakemix]

Well, excuuuuuse me. I didn't think it was going to bite me in the ass that bad.

I'd think it'd be better for you if you were more levelheaded about this. You're in no position to be sarcastic, you know.

[I'm saying there is evidence to support my claims (you can look at previous posts for this). You aren't being very reasonable, PCM, while I have been. I only expect reciprocation.What I'm saying is three consecutive bandwagoning posts has to add up to scumminess somewhere. If you'll notice, I haven't voted a single one of them, because I want to deal with the subject at hand: me. I don't mind defending myself, just give me a logical ear to speak to.

Of course you didn't vote them, that would get you lynched in no time. The thing is you dedicated a large portion of that post to them and not yourself. I'm willing to listen, but if you only post "I'm town and these guys are bandwagoning!", that does no one any favors, especially not you. And, in a situation where the case is already well-laid out, there isn't necessarily anything to add (in fact, there probably isn't). In that case, simply voting and stating "I agree" isn't exactly bandwagoning, is it? That's why I, generally speaking, articulate my thoughts when casting a vote, but I'm getting off topic. My point is, if I believe the evidence is clear enough and you don't do well to refute it, what is there left to discuss?

[MoB Deadly]

All that post adds up to "please don't lynch me guy's I'm the town vig". Your "evidence" backing you up is a PR that you never specified until spiesr did for you.

I believe in actions speaking louder than words. You don't present a particularly compelling case, you made some kills that seem extremely weak in reasoning. Bandwagonning in and of itself does not convict. If anything, you should have NKed edoc as he rushed the hammer which was far scummier than people "bandwagonning" especially if it ended up being the lynch.

And add to that, you vigged someone on even more questionable reasoning night 1. The best way for a vig to clear himself is to not get all trigger happy and start shooting night 1. You clearly stated that you knew that, but you went ahead and did it anyways.

Basically, a very poor playing of a town vig if you really are, with a kill that severely handicapped town, and a pretty weak fakeclaim of vig if you are the SKer.

Decent case+weak defense=I'm not buying the claim.

I am in agreement with Safari here. Edoc appeared 1000% more times scummier than Rodion.

Well if I was attacked, I am unaware of it, thanks for whoever bussed me or whatever happened, I am glad to still be here.

I want victor lynched for two reasons.
1. Things appear to be going fairly well right now. We have people shooting but not many deaths. Roleblockers, bussers, doctors, are doing a great job and are one step ahead of the mafia. Keep it going, lets get rid of a vig who has killed more, or almost more than the mafia has.
2. What happens if we don't lynch him now? What other case do we pursue tonight? If we had any other major cases we could definitely tell Sully to hold his fire for tonight and take care of the other case. But I dont see one forming now, we can't let tonight end in a no lynch. We are only going to get more cases as the game goes on and we wont have the day to spare to lynch sully another day, if his plan is to lie and still kill tonight.

fastposted by pcm

[zimmah]

right, as i think most of us agree that victor isn't any helpfull:

unvote vote sully

let's see if he was telling the truth or not. either way, this will give us some more information. let's just hope we aren't making a big mistake here, but i honestly doubt it.

[safariguy5]

right, as i think most of us agree that victor isn't any helpfull:

unvote vote sully

let's see if he was telling the truth or not. either way, this will give us some more information. let's just hope we aren't making a big mistake here, but i honestly doubt it.

I think the possibility of losing a Vig is balanced by the probability of clearing up some night actions. I just don't see the flavor fitting that of a regular vig. Overeager vig maybe, psychotic SKer more likely.

[Victor Sullivan]

All that post adds up to "please don't lynch me guy's I'm the town vig". Your "evidence" backing you up is a PR that you never specified until spiesr did for you.

Alright, if you don't believe any of my evidence, then where's yours? Suppose I am a SKer or mafia. Just think about that. If that is, in fact, the case, then I want your theory, then. How do you explain the happenings of the last few nights? I've already explained my reasonings behind both kills. Explain yours.

I believe in actions speaking louder than words. You don't present a particularly compelling case, you made some kills that seem extremely weak in reasoning. Bandwagonning in and of itself does not convict. If anything, you should have NKed edoc as he rushed the hammer which was far scummier than people "bandwagonning" especially if it ended up being the lynch.

I actually made the conscious decision not to kill edocsil, because there was a higher probability of his being on the chopping block the following day, so I figured I would knock off someone suspicious that may not have enough on him to support a full lynch. That's basically what I've perceived the role of vig to be.

And add to that, you vigged someone on even more questionable reasoning night 1. The best way for a vig to clear himself is to not get all trigger happy and start shooting night 1. You clearly stated that you knew that, but you went ahead and did it anyways.

And I've already stated why.

Basically, a very poor playing of a town vig if you really are, with a kill that severely handicapped town, and a pretty weak fakeclaim of vig if you are the SKer.

Decent case+weak defense=I'm not buying the claim.

"Weak fakeclaim"? That seems like bullshit WIFOM to me. Let me reason back to you similarly: why would I make myself a target today, posting what I did immediately following the Night 3 scene? Why would I willingly out myself like that? And why in God's name would I fakeclaim vig with a sorry name claim (apparently) of "Travis Bickle"?

I'd like if we could discuss things a bit more before anyone gets hammer-happy, if one of you wouldn't mind...

Is your role Overeager Vig, or just regular vig?

Regular.

[I'm saying there is evidence to support my claims (you can look at previous posts for this). You aren't being very reasonable, PCM, while I have been. I only expect reciprocation.What I'm saying is three consecutive bandwagoning posts has to add up to scumminess somewhere. If you'll notice, I haven't voted a single one of them, because I want to deal with the subject at hand: me. I don't mind defending myself, just give me a logical ear to speak to.

Of course you didn't vote them, that would get you lynched in no time. The thing is you dedicated a large portion of that post to them and not yourself. I'm willing to listen, but if you only post "I'm town and these guys are bandwagoning!", that does no one any favors, especially not you. And, in a situation where the case is already well-laid out, there isn't necessarily anything to add (in fact, there probably isn't). In that case, simply voting and stating "I agree" isn't exactly bandwagoning, is it? That's why I, generally speaking, articulate my thoughts when casting a vote, but I'm getting off topic. My point is, if I believe the evidence is clear enough and you don't do well to refute it, what is there left to discuss?

What evidence is there that I haven't refuted? More importantly, what evidence is there for me that you haven't refuted? I can think of a few.

I am in agreement with Safari here. Edoc appeared 1000% more times scummier than Rodion.

Well if I was attacked, I am unaware of it, thanks for whoever bussed me or whatever happened, I am glad to still be here.

I want victor lynched for two reasons.
1. Things appear to be going fairly well right now. We have people shooting but not many deaths. Roleblockers, bussers, doctors, are doing a great job and are one step ahead of the mafia. Keep it going, lets get rid of a vig who has killed more, or almost more than the mafia has.
2. What happens if we don't lynch him now? What other case do we pursue tonight? If we had any other major cases we could definitely tell Sully to hold his fire for tonight and take care of the other case. But I dont see one forming now, we can't let tonight end in a no lynch. We are only going to get more cases as the game goes on and we wont have the day to spare to lynch sully another day, if his plan is to lie and still kill tonight.

fastposted by pcm

Weak reasoning.
1. Fine. But mafia are still hiding in the town, poisoning their minds, apparently. And FOS for skimming: I have killed more than mafia or the SK. I claimed two of the 3 kills in the last 3 nights.

right, as i think most of us agree that victor isn't any helpfull:

unvote vote sully

let's see if he was telling the truth or not. either way, this will give us some more information. let's just hope we aren't making a big mistake here, but i honestly doubt it.

I think the possibility of losing a Vig is balanced by the probability of clearing up some night actions. I just don't see the flavor fitting that of a regular vig. Overeager vig maybe, psychotic SKer more likely.

Again, please explain what you think happened the past three nights and why you suppose I decided to do it.

-Sully

[Victor Sullivan]

And for heaven's sake, use some meta. That at least should help clear me.

-Sully

[BGtheBrain]

****

[strike wolf]

Vote Count

Bgthebrain
blake
Zimmah
Mr. Squirrel (1)-Bgthebrain
Jonty
drunkmonkey
victor sullivan (7)-safariguy, mob, drake, jonty, Pancake, drunkmonkey, zimmah
newguy
spiesr
mob deadly
pancakemix
drake 259
safariguy
No lynch

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

THat is a lynch. Scene won't be until later tonight. Feel free to continue talking until then.

[Mr. Squirrel]

Vs before u get lynche will u call out some suspects?

I agree. Vic, if you are telling the truth, give us some last words so we might have a little reference from you in future days.

[safariguy5]

And for heaven's sake, use some meta. That at least should help clear me.

-Sully

Drawing attention to yourself is a WIFOM argument. How exactly am I supposed to Meta on you? You've modded more times than I've seen you play, and I've never seen you play a killing role. You're most memorable role was cult recruiter in POTC.

You want my theory about what happened? You're a SKer, and you chose targets that you didn't think would attract a lot of attention. Then when you hit mafia, you use it as justification for being a vig.

Really, I may have bought the vig claim if you didn't kill Night 1. That's what usually separates the vigs from the SKer's. Unless there was very compelling evidence someone was mafia from Day 1 discussion, then it's usually much better to hold your fire. I thought you would have learned that from jonty's vig kill in Egyptian Pantheon that nearly gave mafia the game.

That and I don't see how Bickle is a regular vig. Obsession with the prostitute, trying to kill the politician, buying guns from an arms dealer...these are not the flavor tied to a regular vig.

[jonty125]

And for heaven's sake, use some meta. That at least should help clear me.

-Sully

Drawing attention to yourself is a WIFOM argument. How exactly am I supposed to Meta on you? You've modded more times than I've seen you play, and I've never seen you play a killing role. You're most memorable role was cult recruiter in POTC.

You want my theory about what happened? You're a SKer, and you chose targets that you didn't think would attract a lot of attention. Then when you hit mafia, you use it as justification for being a vig.

Really, I may have bought the vig claim if you didn't kill Night 1. That's what usually separates the vigs from the SKer's. Unless there was very compelling evidence someone was mafia from Day 1 discussion, then it's usually much better to hold your fire. I thought you would have learned that from jonty's vig kill in Egyptian Pantheon that nearly gave mafia the game.

That and I don't see how Bickle is a regular vig. Obsession with the prostitute, trying to kill the politician, buying guns from an arms dealer...these are not the flavor tied to a regular vig.

That was N2 and I don't like reminding

[safariguy5]

And for heaven's sake, use some meta. That at least should help clear me.

-Sully

Drawing attention to yourself is a WIFOM argument. How exactly am I supposed to Meta on you? You've modded more times than I've seen you play, and I've never seen you play a killing role. You're most memorable role was cult recruiter in POTC.

You want my theory about what happened? You're a SKer, and you chose targets that you didn't think would attract a lot of attention. Then when you hit mafia, you use it as justification for being a vig.

Really, I may have bought the vig claim if you didn't kill Night 1. That's what usually separates the vigs from the SKer's. Unless there was very compelling evidence someone was mafia from Day 1 discussion, then it's usually much better to hold your fire. I thought you would have learned that from jonty's vig kill in Egyptian Pantheon that nearly gave mafia the game.

That and I don't see how Bickle is a regular vig. Obsession with the prostitute, trying to kill the politician, buying guns from an arms dealer...these are not the flavor tied to a regular vig.

That was N2 and I don't like reminding

It wasn't so much the timing as the lack of evidence to vig. Just because someone has some behavior that you find suspicious doesn't mean you should just go out and shoot them. The best use of a vig is if someone counterclaims and we lynch the wrong person. Or multiple people lied about their night action and we can only lynch one of them. None of Sully's kills have had good compelling evidence to justify the kill. And don't feel too bad, you did win that game.

[jonty125]

And for heaven's sake, use some meta. That at least should help clear me.

-Sully

Drawing attention to yourself is a WIFOM argument. How exactly am I supposed to Meta on you? You've modded more times than I've seen you play, and I've never seen you play a killing role. You're most memorable role was cult recruiter in POTC.

You want my theory about what happened? You're a SKer, and you chose targets that you didn't think would attract a lot of attention. Then when you hit mafia, you use it as justification for being a vig.

Really, I may have bought the vig claim if you didn't kill Night 1. That's what usually separates the vigs from the SKer's. Unless there was very compelling evidence someone was mafia from Day 1 discussion, then it's usually much better to hold your fire. I thought you would have learned that from jonty's vig kill in Egyptian Pantheon that nearly gave mafia the game.

That and I don't see how Bickle is a regular vig. Obsession with the prostitute, trying to kill the politician, buying guns from an arms dealer...these are not the flavor tied to a regular vig.

That was N2 and I don't like reminding

It wasn't so much the timing as the lack of evidence to vig. Just because someone has some behavior that you find suspicious doesn't mean you should just go out and shoot them. The best use of a vig is if someone counterclaims and we lynch the wrong person. Or multiple people lied about their night action and we can only lynch one of them. None of Sully's kills have had good compelling evidence to justify the kill. And don't feel too bad, you did win that game.

More by luck than judjement

[Victor Sullivan]

Vs before u get lynche will u call out some suspects?

I agree. Vic, if you are telling the truth, give us some last words so we might have a little reference from you in future days.

*shrugs* Just use things people have posted today to fuel tomorrow's conversation. I find MoB to be highly suspicious and I get some solid town vibes from spiesr.

Damn, I didn't realize zimmah had casted the lynching vote. He was mostly quiet today - perhaps another suspicious character. safariguy5 is apparently horribly misled or else we're all fools.

This would be my guess of scum/town for the remaining players (suspect, likely town):

Bgthebrain
blakebowling
zimmah
Mr. Squirrel
Jonty
drunkmonkey
newguy
spiesr
mob deadly
pancakemix
drake 259
safariguy

I get the feeling I'm horribly wrong (wouldn't be surprised if one of the guys I marked "suspect" actually already roleclaimed, lol; I did miss a few RL days), but those are just my gut feelings, based on posting behavior.

-Sully

[spiesr]

wouldn't be surprised if one of the guys I marked "suspect" actually already roleclaimed, lol; I did miss a few RL days.

It was Zimmah, who claimed to be Rambo, Tracker.

[jonty125]

Vs before u get lynche will u call out some suspects?

I agree. Vic, if you are telling the truth, give us some last words so we might have a little reference from you in future days.

*shrugs* Just use things people have posted today to fuel tomorrow's conversation. I find MoB to be highly suspicious and I get some solid town vibes from spiesr.

Damn, I didn't realize zimmah had casted the lynching vote. He was mostly quiet today - perhaps another suspicious character. safariguy5 is apparently horribly misled or else we're all fools.

This would be my guess of scum/town for the remaining players (suspect, likely town):

Bgthebrain
blakebowling
zimmah
Mr. Squirrel
Jonty
drunkmonkey
newguy
spiesr
mob deadly
pancakemix
drake 259
safariguy

I get the feeling I'm horribly wrong (wouldn't be surprised if one of the guys I marked "suspect" actually already roleclaimed, lol; I did miss a few RL days), but those are just my gut feelings, based on posting behavior.

-Sully

Are you going to elaborate on what makes me and the others suspicious.

[drunkmonkey]

Bgthebrain
blakebowling
zimmah
Mr. Squirrel
Jonty
drunkmonkey
newguy
spiesr
mob deadly
pancakemix
drake 259
safariguy

As spiesr noted, zimmah claimed Town Tracker. BG also claims to have received a "clean" result after investigating jonty. Curious why blake gets a pass, as he hasn't posted much at all.

[Victor Sullivan]

Bgthebrain
blakebowling
zimmah
Mr. Squirrel
Jonty
drunkmonkey
newguy
spiesr
mob deadly
pancakemix
drake 259
safariguy

As spiesr noted, zimmah claimed Town Tracker. BG also claims to have received a "clean" result after investigating jonty. Curious why blake gets a pass, as he hasn't posted much at all.

I figured he would be more involved if he were mafia.

-Sully

[Victor Sullivan]

And with jonty's and zimmah's being cleared (to an extent), that leaves two (MoB and drake), which are likely all that's left of mafia, as 4 seems a bit high with a Sker in the game.

-Sully

[MoB Deadly]

Bgthebrain
blakebowling
zimmah
Mr. Squirrel
Jonty
drunkmonkey
newguy
spiesr
mob deadly
pancakemix
drake 259
safariguy

As spiesr noted, zimmah claimed Town Tracker. BG also claims to have received a "clean" result after investigating jonty. Curious why blake gets a pass, as he hasn't posted much at all.

So that just leaves me and Drake

How can we take his list seriously, when we do have roleclaimed in red and a clean result on jonty?


Im curious, what other reasons do you think I am scummy besides OMGUS retaliation? The only other reason I have seen you post is because you said I was a forerunner in soundman's lynch, even though I unvoted when he was at L-2 to make sure he DIDNT get lynched. Yes I wanted pressure at the time, but I wanted him to talk, then the town to talk again to see how we should proceed. NOT just lynch.

And I was one of them involved in the debate of why edoc should have waited and not lynched. That is WIFOM though because he was not part of the mafia. Think what you want, but my name should be blue

[MoB Deadly]

And with jonty's and zimmah's being cleared (to an extent), that leaves two (MoB and drake), which are likely all that's left of mafia, as 4 seems a bit high with a Sker in the game.

-Sully

fastposted, not sure why it didnt show up......

Victor, no offense but I think its pretty obvious your back is against the wall and you are doing anything you can to squirm. Your suspicion on me is highly OMGUS and a last ditch effort

[Victor Sullivan]

And with jonty's and zimmah's being cleared (to an extent), that leaves two (MoB and drake), which are likely all that's left of mafia, as 4 seems a bit high with a Sker in the game.

-Sully

fastposted, not sure why it didnt show up......

Victor, no offense but I think its pretty obvious your back is against the wall and you are doing anything you can to squirm. Your suspicion on me is highly OMGUS and a last ditch effort

I'm dead already, Mr. Skimmer

Scummeh!

-Sully

[drunkmonkey]

Victor's already been lynched; we're just getting his last words now. Of course, if he flips scum, this entire conversation is irrelevant.

fastposted