H.E. Mafia, Game Over, Town Prevails. [archive plox]

[dazza2008]

okay everyone. Lets put 2 and 2 together. I claimed not doctor. Since chapcrap is SOOOO easily persuaded that I am the doctor, then I say Im not, but I still believe that CLEVER is scum, what do we have as options.

1. I am being blatantly obvious that I either have a strong feeling about it because of a hunch.
2. I am doing it because I have a power role OTHER than the doctor.
3. I am doing it because I have a power role OTHER than the doctor, and even though nothing is confirmed, my belief is strong enough for me to lead a case against a player who anyone could have called scum before his claim, and leading a case against someone who strongly defended him with weak evidence, and FOS'ed a player who is normally very talkative, but who I havent seen post anything of substance in forever (lets see, whats his name? Doomyoshi? Yeah, where is he?).

So chapcrap, kind of assumptions, what do you have to say about the 3 options I presented?

I really do not understand your post. Even if you have a power role how can you be sure he is not the doc if you are not?

I can't think of anything that would make you so sure.

[ghostly447]

okay everyone. Lets put 2 and 2 together. I claimed not doctor. Since chapcrap is SOOOO easily persuaded that I am the doctor, then I say Im not, but I still believe that CLEVER is scum, what do we have as options.

1. I am being blatantly obvious that I either have a strong feeling about it because of a hunch.
2. I am doing it because I have a power role OTHER than the doctor.
3. I am doing it because I have a power role OTHER than the doctor, and even though nothing is confirmed, my belief is strong enough for me to lead a case against a player who anyone could have called scum before his claim, and leading a case against someone who strongly defended him with weak evidence, and FOS'ed a player who is normally very talkative, but who I havent seen post anything of substance in forever (lets see, whats his name? Doomyoshi? Yeah, where is he?).

So chapcrap, kind of assumptions, what do you have to say about the 3 options I presented?

I really do not understand your post. Even if you have a power role how can you be sure he is not the doc if you are not?

I can't think of anything that would make you so sure.

Well right now my role has nothing to do with anything except that the fact it may have to do with knowledge. And I probably made a mistake coming out and mentioning it may be a power role, but whatever. I strongly feel that CLEVER, and Chapcrap are 2 of the mafia. Before CLEVER's claim, people here would have bet that he was mafia because of everything he was dropping. But then all of a sudden, nearly everyone gets off, no questions asked? The people who lead a case should at least be the ones questioning what may be up with it (CPR doc, whatnot). But this time, others were the ones wondering what to do with the claim, while doomyoshi slipped under the radar and chapcrap defended what, at first, was a sure sign of scum.

[dazza2008]

okay everyone. Lets put 2 and 2 together. I claimed not doctor. Since chapcrap is SOOOO easily persuaded that I am the doctor, then I say Im not, but I still believe that CLEVER is scum, what do we have as options.

1. I am being blatantly obvious that I either have a strong feeling about it because of a hunch.
2. I am doing it because I have a power role OTHER than the doctor.
3. I am doing it because I have a power role OTHER than the doctor, and even though nothing is confirmed, my belief is strong enough for me to lead a case against a player who anyone could have called scum before his claim, and leading a case against someone who strongly defended him with weak evidence, and FOS'ed a player who is normally very talkative, but who I havent seen post anything of substance in forever (lets see, whats his name? Doomyoshi? Yeah, where is he?).

So chapcrap, kind of assumptions, what do you have to say about the 3 options I presented?

I really do not understand your post. Even if you have a power role how can you be sure he is not the doc if you are not?

I can't think of anything that would make you so sure.

Well right now my role has nothing to do with anything except that the fact it may have to do with knowledge. And I probably made a mistake coming out and mentioning it may be a power role, but whatever. I strongly feel that CLEVER, and Chapcrap are 2 of the mafia. Before CLEVER's claim, people here would have bet that he was mafia because of everything he was dropping. But then all of a sudden, nearly everyone gets off, no questions asked? The people who lead a case should at least be the ones questioning what may be up with it (CPR doc, whatnot). But this time, others were the ones wondering what to do with the claim, while doomyoshi slipped under the radar and chapcrap defended what, at first, was a sure sign of scum.

In every game if someone claims doc the town are hesitant to lynch unless he is caught out lying.

The case was made on him then because of his claim people unvoted. You will find that will happen most games.

[ghostly447]

okay everyone. Lets put 2 and 2 together. I claimed not doctor. Since chapcrap is SOOOO easily persuaded that I am the doctor, then I say Im not, but I still believe that CLEVER is scum, what do we have as options.

1. I am being blatantly obvious that I either have a strong feeling about it because of a hunch.
2. I am doing it because I have a power role OTHER than the doctor.
3. I am doing it because I have a power role OTHER than the doctor, and even though nothing is confirmed, my belief is strong enough for me to lead a case against a player who anyone could have called scum before his claim, and leading a case against someone who strongly defended him with weak evidence, and FOS'ed a player who is normally very talkative, but who I havent seen post anything of substance in forever (lets see, whats his name? Doomyoshi? Yeah, where is he?).

So chapcrap, kind of assumptions, what do you have to say about the 3 options I presented?

I really do not understand your post. Even if you have a power role how can you be sure he is not the doc if you are not?

I can't think of anything that would make you so sure.

Well right now my role has nothing to do with anything except that the fact it may have to do with knowledge. And I probably made a mistake coming out and mentioning it may be a power role, but whatever. I strongly feel that CLEVER, and Chapcrap are 2 of the mafia. Before CLEVER's claim, people here would have bet that he was mafia because of everything he was dropping. But then all of a sudden, nearly everyone gets off, no questions asked? The people who lead a case should at least be the ones questioning what may be up with it (CPR doc, whatnot). But this time, others were the ones wondering what to do with the claim, while doomyoshi slipped under the radar and chapcrap defended what, at first, was a sure sign of scum.

In every game if someone claims doc the town are hesitant to lynch unless he is caught out lying.

The case was made on him then because of his claim people unvoted. You will find that will happen most games.

Fine then. Since that case will get nowhere, I suppose I will drop it. But if he flips scum I am going to laugh until I cry. And before someone tries to come and say "He is changing sides and such", I am changing due to the fact that I cannot proceed with it. Taking note of the case and claim. And me saying "But if he...laugh until I cry" is not directed at you dazza. Just pretty much anyone on the CLEVER bw who dropped like flies just because he was smart enough to claim as a doctor. 1 with a claim that everyone can believe because it is such an okay setup that there may be multiple docs. Also, good job not claiming. Except I think I know who our real doc is anyways. Whatever. Since both my cases are apparently not going anywhere, who else has anything to go off of?

[DoomYoshi]

I also don't understand the 3 options post. Are these just alternate options to you being mafia?

What is it that makes you so sure that clever is lying? New players tend to drop scum tells. Fortunately for them, if they have a role like doctor which allows them to escape, it ends up as better, since they can live and learn from mistakes. The first time I was doc I was called a derp and all kinds of other nasty names. Perhaps that is why I sympathize so much with clever.

Ghost, you are a very strong player, and I think that you may have just taken Rodion's place as best new player. However, switching from clever to chap doesn't make sense to me. I am not entirely sure what happened here. There was a sort of reverse role fishing. Also, chap's responses were very weird, but they werent weird until after you voted for him.

FOS on chap. My vote stays put for now.

Sorry for dropping under the radar. You are correct about that and I have a hard time getting back into the game after my pause due to a hectic school week. I have been following along though.

[ghostly447]

I also don't understand the 3 options post. Are these just alternate options to you being mafia?

I posted them because chapcrap tried to make sense of my attacking of CLEVER by saying I was doctor. Then when I said I wasnt doctor, all of a sudden he just assumed that I had no idea what I am talking about, when obviously say, a cop could do just as much for finding mafia as a doctor could by fake claiming. By telling me the only way I make sense is if I am the doctor is completely incorrect, and therefore another scum slip in my mind (because if he were town, he would realize that a cop could also get a guilty result).

What is it that makes you so sure that clever is lying? New players tend to drop scum tells. Fortunately for them, if they have a role like doctor which allows them to escape, it ends up as better, since they can live and learn from mistakes. The first time I was doc I was called a derp and all kinds of other nasty names. Perhaps that is why I sympathize so much with clever.

You tell me doomyoshi. You were on the CLEVER bw before he claimed, then you backed off in what seemed like minutes. As soon as he claimed, you, the normally head mafia hunter in other games, dropped off like Dr. Jekyll was the calmest, best doctor in the world. You may have questioned, briefly, what it could be, but I do not remember you ever pondering for too long on it.

Ghost, you are a very strong player, and I think that you may have just taken Rodion's place as best new player. However, switching from clever to chap doesn't make sense to me. I am not entirely sure what happened here. There was a sort of reverse role fishing. Also, chap's responses were very weird, but they werent weird until after you voted for him.

Thanks for the compliment. I am not sure how to take it due to our situations. Are you saying I caught scum, or am just logical, or what? And switching from clever to chap makes perfect sense. I have had a hunch about them both, and yourself, since the beginning of the game. Why is it strange that I switch from clever, the claimed doctor that no one wants to lynch, to chapcrap, the player who was mostly asking for a doctor counterclaim (in my mind trying to save his scum buddy for one more turn and get a doctor caught in the midst for a night kill)? Last I checked, it makes all the sense in the world.

FOS on chap. My vote stays put for now.

Sorry for dropping under the radar. You are correct about that and I have a hard time getting back into the game after my pause due to a hectic school week. I have been following along though.

Understood, last week wasnt that good for me either. Computer time was only 1 1/2 hours and then I had to get on my phone to play.

[DoomYoshi]

This is the second time now you have accused me of being on the clever BW. I don't think I have voted for clever all game (other than joke vote).

I mean that your play reminds me of his. Rodion made a name for himself by using outrageous ruses to fool town. However, between high activity, smooth talking and carefully constructed posts his ruses were completely successful.

My main problem here is that you using what is illusory rational thought. You have a list of 3 players which you have had since the "beginning of game". Now you are trying to build cases on us. This is where you are in the wrong. If you have to spend all game building a case on someone, them you are not using rational thought.

I am here defining rational thought as starting from no assumptions and then deducing what must be the case. Instead, you are deciding on a conclusion, and using "rational thought" to prove it. The process is backwards. While modern psychology has proven that this backwards mode of thought is pretty much all humans are capable of, if you are aware of it, you should be able to control for it.

You said yourself that you have nothing on me. You presented a feeble WIFOM/nonsense case on me earlier and yet you are still sure I am scum. How can you be sure I am scum if there is no case?

Chap didn't so much ask for a doctor counterclaim as try to verify whether or not one was already on the table. You say that everyone is trying to "ask for a counterclaim" but then you say that only chap is. Which is it? If everyone, how can you justify voting only for chap? If chap, prove that what he said was asking for a counterclaim.

I know you said you were dropping the case, but in your reply to me you clearly indicated that you still think chap is scum. If you are so sure, don't drop the case. You may feel as if this is a situation in which you are "damned if you do and damned if you don't". I understand that feeling very well.

One last thing about your first paragraph: are you claiming cop now? And if you were a cop with a guilty result, why not go after the person you got a guilty result on right away instead of building a case on someone you have nothing with? Your 3 options post still doesn't make sense, and neither does your new defense of it.

[ghostly447]

Sorry. Was in the middle of my response and then the bell rang. I will have to respond to that after school because my phone will make errors and then it will not let me fully respond. So fair warning no reply until about 6 and 1/2 hours from now t the very least.

[jonty125]

jonty? Please. I'm the one with logic. I'm not the one trying to lynch a doctor and you vote me?

Its not for protecting the claimed doc its for the logic in protecting the claimed doc

I also don't understand the 3 options post.

+1

ut then all of a sudden, nearly everyone gets off, no questions asked?

Well I highly disagree with that statement. Very tempted to vote ghostly but he's softclaiming an informative role so I'm going to hold my fire

[safariguy5]

jonty? Please. I'm the one with logic. I'm not the one trying to lynch a doctor and you vote me?

Its not for protecting the claimed doc its for the logic in protecting the claimed doc

I also don't understand the 3 options post.

+1

ut then all of a sudden, nearly everyone gets off, no questions asked?

Well I highly disagree with that statement. Very tempted to vote ghostly but he's softclaiming an informative role so I'm going to hold my fire

I also think ghostly is making a bad assumption with that claim. He's making a lot of assumptions based on roleflavor. While the roleflavor hints at some sort of sanity doc, it doesn't mean that clever is mafia. He could be both doc and town, but unless you have evidence to the contrary ghostly, I'm not about to lynch our claimed doc without some pretty good proof.

[strike wolf]

I also have to call bullshit on what Ghostly's said so far. It's possible that he did suspect them all from near the beginning of the game however Ghostly seems to change his argument against the three of them depending them as the games goes. He's best case scenario just got tunnel vision on them and his mind keeps rerationalizing based on what he feels fits best at the time. Worst case scenario he is scum trying to get one of them lynched and changing his case as he goes.

I'm also suspicious of ghostly from early on based on his comment about his activity and suggesting he wouldn't be so active if he was scum. Anyone who played in FFVII mafia knows that that's pure bs and who would know that better than ghostly so that seems like pure misdirection from what I can see.

Post in reference:

So CMS votes no lynch, followed by New Guy voting no lynch, and then being defended by Ghostly...
I can see CMS voting for a no lynch as he's pretty new here. I think my modded game was his first and the suggestion of a no lynch on Day 1 never had a chance to come up. So I'll let him off the hook here.
However New Guy and Ghostly have both been in several games and should know that a no lynch without info is a bad thing. I'm currently going after la galleta just to get him (her?) in here but with the deadline fast approaching I'll come back to him later. It's more important now to go after scummy behavior than an inactive.
Vote new guy1

Fastposted.

After reading what New Guy just said I went and looked back at his post.

i have always been told that a no lynch is worse then lynching a townie, i agree though, and so i unvote vote no lynch for now. if there are any leads later, then i will consider changing my vote, and i will attempt to be here when the day ends in case a case comes up where they need me to make a decision.

One thing that stands out to me is the lack of logic in this post. He votes no lynch but then says he'll change if a case comes up later. Why vote for a no lynch if he's willing to jump on a case that comes up later? Why not just wait? It seems to me he's talking out of both sides of his mouth. On one hand he thinks the day should end now (by his no lynch vote) but then on the other hand he's willing to hop on a case if brought up AND says he'll attempt to be here when the day ends. Which to me says he thinks this day will not end with everyone voting for a no lynch and ending the day early. To me this seems more scummy than just voting for a no lynch. He's voting for a no lynch but then trying to show town support by saying he'll jump on another case if needed. So again, why vote no lynch to begin with?

I think there's a good chance he's mafia trying to get an early end to the day but also trying to cover his move with what he sees as a townie statement.

Another thing that makes me suspicious is Ghostly's continued defense of him. Why does he care so much?

Okay, wait wait wait. Hasnt anyone else ever had the urge they MUST say something to feel like they have a bookmark? I do it all the time in other games. And why do I CARE so much? Maybe something along the lines of I WOULD REAALLLLYYYYY Like to catch SCUM. Or maybe I am scum, and therefore I am talking so much so that I have attention drawn to me. REALLY? Have you EVER been in a game where someone defends a scum mate like I defend New Guy1? There is no case. Especially if it was just to say something to bookmark. It is almost as silly as you asking why I care so much when, quite clearly, the only reason would be to catch scum, and not lynch townies.

I would like to see him claim before any other votes are brought upon him. Because the way I am seeing it, there are many more people note taking action that will more than likely jump on a bandwagon just to fit in.

[strike wolf]

In short Vote ghostly

[ghostly447]

I am back from all errands (expected ones) and will break down doomyoshi's case. What is my vote count?

[ghostly447]

This is the second time now you have accused me of being on the clever BW. I don't think I have voted for clever all game (other than joke vote).

After going back, you briefly apologized for your inactivity, and thought out loud on whether it was his noobiness or an actual scum slip.

I mean that your play reminds me of his. Rodion made a name for himself by using outrageous ruses to fool town. However, between high activity, smooth talking and carefully constructed posts his ruses were completely successful.

I will admit that this is exactly like me...When I am mafia. When I am not mafia, I attempt to do the exact same thing, but it isnt a falsely made case.

My main problem here is that you using what is illusory rational thought. You have a list of 3 players which you have had since the "beginning of game". Now you are trying to build cases on us. This is where you are in the wrong. If you have to spend all game building a case on someone, them you are not using rational thought.

Near the beginning of the game. No one can make assumptions of people at the very beginning. I think you are trying to make this look like more of a scumtell (my worse being beginning of the game, you interpret to literally mean the VERY beginning when a rational thinker would see it as "the first people I noticed acting out of the ordinary or something of the sort.")

I am here defining rational thought as starting from no assumptions and then deducing what must be the case. Instead, you are deciding on a conclusion, and using "rational thought" to prove it. The process is backwards. While modern psychology has proven that this backwards mode of thought is pretty much all humans are capable of, if you are aware of it, you should be able to control for it.

What is your point here? Since you started off with "I am here defining rational thought" I assume you are not trying to use this against me and say that I am working it backwards. Because if you havent noticed, it isnt a thing people in this community are fond of for someone trying to read minds and try to explain things for them (IE: I think something, but you say I think something else. Dont tell me what I think in other words)

You said yourself that you have nothing on me. You presented a feeble WIFOM/nonsense case on me earlier and yet you are still sure I am scum. How can you be sure I am scum if there is no case?

Well if you didnt notice I brought another case to the floor which is this one. So obviously it made me think you or chapcrap was scum again.

Chap didn't so much ask for a doctor counterclaim as try to verify whether or not one was already on the table. You say that everyone is trying to "ask for a counterclaim" but then you say that only chap is. Which is it? If everyone, how can you justify voting only for chap? If chap, prove that what he said was asking for a counterclaim.

Well lets see. I singled chap down because chapcrap joined in on the bandwagon as the 4th voter (around the hotspot so to speak for mafia to jump on and try not to get noticed) and proceeded to see if I could get a slip. I felt it was somewhat successful, not only in getting the forum going, but also in that chapcrap was the main person arguing the case against me. So in turn, I can say that chapcrap is the main person asking for a counterclaim, even though a counterclaim (and since we are using exact words, chap did ask for a counterclaim or else he wouldnt lynch CLEVER) would lead to our real doctor dead.

I know you said you were dropping the case, but in your reply to me you clearly indicated that you still think chap is scum. If you are so sure, don't drop the case. You may feel as if this is a situation in which you are "damned if you do and damned if you don't". I understand that feeling very well.

I do not believe I have dropped the case doomyoshi. I think it is just on the side burner because you intervened with a strong counter case, and I felt I needed to defend myself from you as to not limit my scope to just chapcrap. Therefore, the chapcrap case is still open, but so is yours.

One last thing about your first paragraph: are you claiming cop now? And if you were a cop with a guilty result, why not go after the person you got a guilty result on right away instead of building a case on someone you have nothing with? Your 3 options post still doesn't make sense, and neither does your new defense of it.

Alrighty. I am not claiming cop straight up. But if you were the cop, and wanted to catch as many scum as possible, I believe the most rational thing would be to pressure another suspect into claiming, posting you are the cop and you got a guilty result on so and so, lynching the guilty player, and then the town has yet another case to go off of the next day. My 3 options post doesnt make sense? Okay then. I am not going to claim. Try to read it and decipher it (Chapcrap should be good at it. Assuming that he thought I was a doctor).


So, what do I personally draw from my cases? And trust me, none are confirmed. Just my GUT FEELING as chapcrap likes to call it. My thoughts on mafia.

confirmed in my eyes (or gut)
Doomyoshi
Chapcrap
CLEVER

Possible
To be posted at a later time. Cant go accusing everybody, now can we!

[ghostly447]

I also have to call bullshit on what Ghostly's said so far. It's possible that he did suspect them all from near the beginning of the game however Ghostly seems to change his argument against the three of them depending them as the games goes. He's best case scenario just got tunnel vision on them and his mind keeps rerationalizing based on what he feels fits best at the time. Worst case scenario he is scum trying to get one of them lynched and changing his case as he goes.

I'm also suspicious of ghostly from early on based on his comment about his activity and suggesting he wouldn't be so active if he was scum. Anyone who played in FFVII mafia knows that that's pure bs and who would know that better than ghostly so that seems like pure misdirection from what I can see.

Post in reference:

So CMS votes no lynch, followed by New Guy voting no lynch, and then being defended by Ghostly...
I can see CMS voting for a no lynch as he's pretty new here. I think my modded game was his first and the suggestion of a no lynch on Day 1 never had a chance to come up. So I'll let him off the hook here.
However New Guy and Ghostly have both been in several games and should know that a no lynch without info is a bad thing. I'm currently going after la galleta just to get him (her?) in here but with the deadline fast approaching I'll come back to him later. It's more important now to go after scummy behavior than an inactive.
Vote new guy1

Fastposted.

After reading what New Guy just said I went and looked back at his post.

i have always been told that a no lynch is worse then lynching a townie, i agree though, and so i unvote vote no lynch for now. if there are any leads later, then i will consider changing my vote, and i will attempt to be here when the day ends in case a case comes up where they need me to make a decision.

One thing that stands out to me is the lack of logic in this post. He votes no lynch but then says he'll change if a case comes up later. Why vote for a no lynch if he's willing to jump on a case that comes up later? Why not just wait? It seems to me he's talking out of both sides of his mouth. On one hand he thinks the day should end now (by his no lynch vote) but then on the other hand he's willing to hop on a case if brought up AND says he'll attempt to be here when the day ends. Which to me says he thinks this day will not end with everyone voting for a no lynch and ending the day early. To me this seems more scummy than just voting for a no lynch. He's voting for a no lynch but then trying to show town support by saying he'll jump on another case if needed. So again, why vote no lynch to begin with?

I think there's a good chance he's mafia trying to get an early end to the day but also trying to cover his move with what he sees as a townie statement.

Another thing that makes me suspicious is Ghostly's continued defense of him. Why does he care so much?

Okay, wait wait wait. Hasnt anyone else ever had the urge they MUST say something to feel like they have a bookmark? I do it all the time in other games. And why do I CARE so much? Maybe something along the lines of I WOULD REAALLLLYYYYY Like to catch SCUM. Or maybe I am scum, and therefore I am talking so much so that I have attention drawn to me. REALLY? Have you EVER been in a game where someone defends a scum mate like I defend New Guy1? There is no case. Especially if it was just to say something to bookmark. It is almost as silly as you asking why I care so much when, quite clearly, the only reason would be to catch scum, and not lynch townies.

I would like to see him claim before any other votes are brought upon him. Because the way I am seeing it, there are many more people note taking action that will more than likely jump on a bandwagon just to fit in.

I change arguments as the game develops. That is scummy? Im sorry, but how do you plan to make a case without adding pieces of information as it get thrown directly at you? If we all went by that, we would be completely screwed until someone said "Why do we just go in saying "Vote this person because of this"". We couldnt develop cases if bits and pieces werent thrown on top every time something scummy was said. And when I see something I feel is scummy, I THROW IT ON which you seem to be saying is bad by saying "however Ghostly seems to change his argument against the three of them depending them as the games goes".

Regarding your complaint of "I'm also suspicious of ghostly from early on based on his comment about his activity and suggesting he wouldn't be so active if he was scum. Anyone who played in FFVII mafia knows that that's pure bs and who would know that better than ghostly so that seems like pure misdirection from what I can see."

By saying that, I meant "I wouldnt be trying to lead this case so strongly if I didnt think it would get a scum killed".

Come on, really? Do you not see Doomyoshi and Chapcrap ganging on me even though I have a response for all their accusations (They have 1 for all of mine, but really?)? Once I get the vote count I may just claim. It seems like a lost cause. All I have to say is, if it is in fact doomyoshi and chapcrap as mafia, and then another person I am thinking of, then it will be tough finding much better than what I have on them. They are both good players, and can cover their tracks and respond to most scumtells. We have some other good players as town if in fact their both mafia, but still, thats tough. lol.

[strike wolf]

I also have to call bullshit on what Ghostly's said so far. It's possible that he did suspect them all from near the beginning of the game however Ghostly seems to change his argument against the three of them depending them as the games goes. He's best case scenario just got tunnel vision on them and his mind keeps rerationalizing based on what he feels fits best at the time. Worst case scenario he is scum trying to get one of them lynched and changing his case as he goes.

I'm also suspicious of ghostly from early on based on his comment about his activity and suggesting he wouldn't be so active if he was scum. Anyone who played in FFVII mafia knows that that's pure bs and who would know that better than ghostly so that seems like pure misdirection from what I can see.

Post in reference:

So CMS votes no lynch, followed by New Guy voting no lynch, and then being defended by Ghostly...
I can see CMS voting for a no lynch as he's pretty new here. I think my modded game was his first and the suggestion of a no lynch on Day 1 never had a chance to come up. So I'll let him off the hook here.
However New Guy and Ghostly have both been in several games and should know that a no lynch without info is a bad thing. I'm currently going after la galleta just to get him (her?) in here but with the deadline fast approaching I'll come back to him later. It's more important now to go after scummy behavior than an inactive.
Vote new guy1

Fastposted.

After reading what New Guy just said I went and looked back at his post.

i have always been told that a no lynch is worse then lynching a townie, i agree though, and so i unvote vote no lynch for now. if there are any leads later, then i will consider changing my vote, and i will attempt to be here when the day ends in case a case comes up where they need me to make a decision.

One thing that stands out to me is the lack of logic in this post. He votes no lynch but then says he'll change if a case comes up later. Why vote for a no lynch if he's willing to jump on a case that comes up later? Why not just wait? It seems to me he's talking out of both sides of his mouth. On one hand he thinks the day should end now (by his no lynch vote) but then on the other hand he's willing to hop on a case if brought up AND says he'll attempt to be here when the day ends. Which to me says he thinks this day will not end with everyone voting for a no lynch and ending the day early. To me this seems more scummy than just voting for a no lynch. He's voting for a no lynch but then trying to show town support by saying he'll jump on another case if needed. So again, why vote no lynch to begin with?

I think there's a good chance he's mafia trying to get an early end to the day but also trying to cover his move with what he sees as a townie statement.

Another thing that makes me suspicious is Ghostly's continued defense of him. Why does he care so much?

Okay, wait wait wait. Hasnt anyone else ever had the urge they MUST say something to feel like they have a bookmark? I do it all the time in other games. And why do I CARE so much? Maybe something along the lines of I WOULD REAALLLLYYYYY Like to catch SCUM. Or maybe I am scum, and therefore I am talking so much so that I have attention drawn to me. REALLY? Have you EVER been in a game where someone defends a scum mate like I defend New Guy1? There is no case. Especially if it was just to say something to bookmark. It is almost as silly as you asking why I care so much when, quite clearly, the only reason would be to catch scum, and not lynch townies.

I would like to see him claim before any other votes are brought upon him. Because the way I am seeing it, there are many more people note taking action that will more than likely jump on a bandwagon just to fit in.

I change arguments as the game develops. That is scummy? Im sorry, but how do you plan to make a case without adding pieces of information as it get thrown directly at you? If we all went by that, we would be completely screwed until someone said "Why do we just go in saying "Vote this person because of this"". We couldnt develop cases if bits and pieces werent thrown on top every time something scummy was said. And when I see something I feel is scummy, I THROW IT ON which you seem to be saying is bad by saying "however Ghostly seems to change his argument against the three of them depending them as the games goes".

You misunderstand. I'm saying you are changing your allegations as you go. The case doesn't advance. You go with whatever seems accurate at the time. Changing parts of your case based on what would be more accurate at the time. there is limited consistency in your cases beyond that the suspects remain the same.

Regarding your complaint of "I'm also suspicious of ghostly from early on based on his comment about his activity and suggesting he wouldn't be so active if he was scum. Anyone who played in FFVII mafia knows that that's pure bs and who would know that better than ghostly so that seems like pure misdirection from what I can see."

By saying that, I meant "I wouldnt be trying to lead this case so strongly if I didnt think it would get a scum killed".

Come on, really? Do you not see Doomyoshi and Chapcrap ganging on me even though I have a response for all their accusations (They have 1 for all of mine, but really?)? Once I get the vote count I may just claim. It seems like a lost cause. All I have to say is, if it is in fact doomyoshi and chapcrap as mafia, and then another person I am thinking of, then it will be tough finding much better than what I have on them. They are both good players, and can cover their tracks and respond to most scumtells. We have some other good players as town if in fact their both mafia, but still, thats tough. lol.

I don't see the connection as strongly as you claim. That's another problem I have with your case, trying to connect everyone as much as possible. Chap is second on my list of scum right now and if you turn up town, yeah I'll lead the case on him but I am much less sure about doomyoshi.

[ghostly447]

I don't see the connection as strongly as you claim. That's another problem I have with your case, trying to connect everyone as much as possible. Chap is second on my list of scum right now and if you turn up town, yeah I'll lead the case on him but I am much less sure about doomyoshi.

Then lets save a power role for the day so our real doctor can protect me if he chooses. I am Captain Flume, Town watcher. I watch you, Strike Wolf, last night because I thought the mafia may target you. I was role blocked and have been going off of todays data to try to lead cases. Obviously nothing has come from these cases except confusion, and lots of votes on myself, along with 3 suspected mafia and then a couple others that need not be mentioned (I obviously have enough on my plate). Ready to help lead on chapcrap then? Now that, if in fact CLEVER is our doctor, we have now allowed them to have the claims of 2 power roles on top of the two power roles they killed last night. Edoc and cm5 (at least edoc, dont know much about cm5) are some pretty old players. Therefore, some of the older members, etc, would have to know to target the most experienced.

That is part of why I thought of doomyoshi and chapcrap. Doomyoshi, in my opinion, is one hell of a player. IF he is mafia, it will be hard to pin solid evidence on him. But since he normally leads discussion, it makes me feel weird they didnt kill him last night if they were in fact targeting older, more experienced players. This whole concept of them hitting the more experienced players is what led me to watch strike wolf, because I believe they would try to target Strike Wolf. But they obviously read me too easily, or did it as a safety measure, because I was role blocked.

Any other questions? Because god forbid you all lynch me because you can believe CLEVER's claim and not mine. And sorry, yes I am getting a bit frustrated with the game. Sorry if I sound mad, etc...Just trying to catch who I believe to be scum, but it seems I cant get any heavy evidence on anyone...

[spiesr]

That is part of why I thought of doomyoshi and chapcrap. Doomyoshi, in my opinion, is one hell of a player. IF he is mafia, it will be hard to pin solid evidence on him. But since he normally leads discussion, it makes me feel weird they didnt kill him last night if they were in fact targeting older, more experienced players.

Let us start with the (likely valid) assumption that last night's two kills were not both directly caused by a single group. From this point we can begin to answer to question of why didn't the mafia kill DoomYoshi last night. There are some possibilities.
1. He is a member of the mafia.
2. They tried to but didn't end up doing so. (Because of a bus-driver action or something.)
3. This game has plenty of good potential night 1 targets. If the mafia can only kill one of those each night, then they can't kill them all night 1. Edoc'sil was killed night 1, he is at least as high value of target as DoomYoshi.
So, at this point I don't think we can use DoomYoshi having not been night killed as contributing evidence towards him being scum.

By saying that, I meant "I wouldnt be trying to lead this case so strongly if I didnt think it would get a scum killed".

Well, I can conceive of a scenario or two where you would be leading cases this strongly if you were mafia. One possibility is sort of similar to the Sunk Cost Fallacy. What I mean here is that you started out making cases as a scum since you felt that you needed to maintain usual appearances in order to avoid detection. In order to keep with your usual style, you begin to be somewhat aggressive with these cases. After a period of time, you reach a point where your current trajectory leads to you becoming the dominate topic of discussion and a situation where you don't really want to be in. It might be wise to try and break out of this curse, but you end up locked into it. You don't want to back off to suddenly as that will only worsen suspicions, especially since you already called out other for backing away from cases too quickly. Additionally, the effort you have already put into the cases, and the suspicion that you have gained by doing so seem to make it that you have to continue the course of escalation, or those would have been for naught.

[ghostly447]

That is part of why I thought of doomyoshi and chapcrap. Doomyoshi, in my opinion, is one hell of a player. IF he is mafia, it will be hard to pin solid evidence on him. But since he normally leads discussion, it makes me feel weird they didnt kill him last night if they were in fact targeting older, more experienced players.

Let us start with the (likely valid) assumption that last night's two kills were not both directly caused by a single group. From this point we can begin to answer to question of why didn't the mafia kill DoomYoshi last night. There are some possibilities.
1. He is a member of the mafia.
2. They tried to but didn't end up doing so. (Because of a bus-driver action or something.)
3. This game has plenty of good potential night 1 targets. If the mafia can only kill one of those each night, then they can't kill them all night 1. Edoc'sil was killed night 1, he is at least as high value of target as DoomYoshi.
So, at this point I don't think we can use DoomYoshi having not been night killed as contributing evidence towards him being scum.

By saying that, I meant "I wouldnt be trying to lead this case so strongly if I didnt think it would get a scum killed".

Well, I can conceive of a scenario or two where you would be leading cases this strongly if you were mafia. One possibility is sort of similar to the Sunk Cost Fallacy. What I mean here is that you started out making cases as a scum since you felt that you needed to maintain usual appearances in order to avoid detection. In order to keep with your usual style, you begin to be somewhat aggressive with these cases. After a period of time, you reach a point where your current trajectory leads to you becoming the dominate topic of discussion and a situation where you don't really want to be in. It might be wise to try and break out of this curse, but you end up locked into it. You don't want to back off to suddenly as that will only worsen suspicions, especially since you already called out other for backing away from cases too quickly. Additionally, the effort you have already put into the cases, and the suspicion that you have gained by doing so seem to make it that you have to continue the course of escalation, or those would have been for naught.

Are you saying you can believe the Doctor claim, but not the town watcher claim, which normally comes as a default with the already dead town tracker? And if this is the case, where is our doctor right now? Slipping under the radar. Come on, open your eyes please. I dont recall him saying a word since I moved on to Chap and Doom. If he was cleared, and is a believable doctor, he should be helping lead some cases. But I have seen 0 cases from him, and almost 0 posts of worth from him.

I dont want to back off too suddenly? I havent backed off at all. Are you even reading?

[chapcrap]

I will defend myself against your untrue, factually inaccurate, and illogical arguments.

First of all, I never asked for a doctor to counterclaim. I said I wasn't going to lynch CLEVER without a counterclaim. Good luck finding someone who will.

What Doom and strike have said is true. You have targeted the 3 of us (CLEVER, Doom, and me) since the beginning and found stuff to try to argue that we were scum.

Main argument against Doom: Gut feeling? (Awful reason)
Main argument against CLEVER: you don't believe his doc claim (Awful reason)
Main argument again me: I won't lynch CLEVER without a counterclaim (No one will except you!)

And the reason you claim to have gotten interested in me? Because I voted 4th against CLEVER... That 4th vote was less than 2 hours after you. And about 6 hours after the first vote. It was the first change I had to vote. So me being 4th, . Let me tell you what I did in the time between your vote and my vote. I finished my shift at work. I get off at 2300 CST (Kansas City), drove 30 minutes home, took care of my wife (she's due in 9 weeks!!!), and then got on CC to play games (I'm down to only 125 active now), be a mod, run tournaments, and play mafia last. Mafia is always the last thing I do. So, sorry that I couldn't vote 2 hours sooner so that it was before your vote.

As far as your claim goes... It seems believable, but a claim of town watcher is much less believable and important that town doctor. So, if people continue with your lynch because of the ridiculousness of your logic, it's not because they necessarily believe CLEVER more than you, but because doctors are much more important than watchers. The fact that no one wants to lynch CLEVER has everything to do with the fact that you do not lynch a claimed doctor. Also, a little redundant to FOS me when you are already voting for me.

Finally, I'm not going to try to explain your 3 options post. You're the one who is being super confusing for no reason and trying to leads cases and bandwagons with no logic and nothing to go on and then getting mad when people won't follow the ridiculousness.

And jonty, my logic in protecting the claimed doc? What logic? The logic is that he's a claimed doc, you don't vote him. I'm pretty sure that everyone gets that. Even you, because you unvoted CLEVER too! Guess you can vote yourself now.

FASTPOSTED x2

[ghostly447]

I will defend myself against your untrue, factually inaccurate, and illogical arguments.

First of all, I never asked for a doctor to counterclaim. I said I wasn't going to lynch CLEVER without a counterclaim. Good luck finding someone who will.

What Doom and strike have said is true. You have targeted the 3 of us (CLEVER, Doom, and me) since the beginning and found stuff to try to argue that we were scum.

Main argument against Doom: Gut feeling? (Awful reason)
Main argument against CLEVER: you don't believe his doc claim (Awful reason)
Main argument again me: I won't lynch CLEVER without a counterclaim (No one will except you!)

And the reason you claim to have gotten interested in me? Because I voted 4th against CLEVER... That 4th vote was less than 2 hours after you. And about 6 hours after the first vote. It was the first change I had to vote. So me being 4th, . Let me tell you what I did in the time between your vote and my vote. I finished my shift at work. I get off at 2300 CST (Kansas City), drove 30 minutes home, took care of my wife (she's due in 9 weeks!!!), and then got on CC to play games (I'm down to only 125 active now), be a mod, run tournaments, and play mafia last. Mafia is always the last thing I do. So, sorry that I couldn't vote 2 hours sooner so that it was before your vote.

As far as your claim goes... It seems believable, but a claim of town watcher is much less believable and important that town doctor. So, if people continue with your lynch because of the ridiculousness of your logic, it's not because they necessarily believe CLEVER more than you, but because doctors are much more important than watchers. The fact that no one wants to lynch CLEVER has everything to do with the fact that you do not lynch a claimed doctor. Also, a little redundant to FOS me when you are already voting for me.

Finally, I'm not going to try to explain your 3 options post. You're the one who is being super confusing for no reason and trying to leads cases and bandwagons with no logic and nothing to go on and then getting mad when people won't follow the ridiculousness.

And jonty, my logic in protecting the claimed doc? What logic? The logic is that he's a claimed doc, you don't vote him. I'm pretty sure that everyone gets that. Even you, because you unvoted CLEVER too! Guess you can vote yourself now.

FASTPOSTED x2

All I am going to say is that I already stated my reason for unvoting CLEVER. Its not because I feel the case may not re-present itself. It is because no one else will vote him (dont bother explaining the reasons again. I understand). So I went to my next best case since no one else is leading anything. I am just trying to lead cases to get conversation going, trying to make someone slip.

[safariguy5]

Ionno ghostly, I suppose it makes your watcher claim less believable if you claim you got roleblocked Night 1. But I suppose given that since we have a confirmed tracker, it would make sense to have a tracker as well. Assuming there are no counterclaims of course.

Not sure if I voted you, but I will unvote.

[spiesr]

Are you saying you can believe the Doctor claim, but not the town watcher claim, which normally comes as a default with the already dead town tracker?

No, what I was doing was pointing out the faultiness of one of your points against DoomYoshi, and offering a counter possibility to one point you are trying to use to prove that you are town.
Also, can I ask this to everyone here? Is it really standard that if a game has a watcher or tracker that it most likely has both? I know that the role are similar in nature, but I don't see why they would have to operate in pairs. I don't personally recall how often both of those roles are used vs how often they are used individually, but I don't think I remember anyone stating this vague rule before. Now, most non-vanilla games above a certain size are pretty likely to include both, but I don't know if this represents are general rule. It seems like how many of such roles a game will have is dependent on how much investigate type power the mod wants the town to have.

[ghostly447]

Are you saying you can believe the Doctor claim, but not the town watcher claim, which normally comes as a default with the already dead town tracker?

No, what I was doing was pointing out the faultiness of one of your points against DoomYoshi, and offering a counter possibility to one point you are trying to use to prove that you are town.
Also, can I ask this to everyone here? Is it really standard that if a game has a watcher or tracker that it most likely has both? I know that the role are similar in nature, but I don't see why they would have to operate in pairs. I don't personally recall how often both of those roles are used vs how often they are used individually, but I don't think I remember anyone stating this vague rule before. Now, most non-vanilla games above a certain size are pretty likely to include both, but I don't know if this represents are general rule. It seems like how many of such roles a game will have is dependent on how much investigate type power the mod wants the town to have.

In general, its up to the mod. But I have always seen them in bigger games to either replace the cop, or aid the cop (as something like 2 separate halves). I have either seen neither, or both in games. Never just one. But I havent played enough to know.

[spiesr]

I am Captain Flume, Town watcher. I watch you, Strike Wolf, last night because I thought the mafia may target you. I was role blocked and have been going off of todays data to try to lead cases.

Now, I need to dig in a bit to see if I believe this claim. So, another character from Catch-22. This is either TAILGUNNER using the Tracker and Watcher as a pair, or you trying to make it seem like it. (Which could explain your insistence on that point.) I have to question why this character though. Wouldn't Yossarian make more sense? Of course it seems like it would also have made more sense to go with Yossarian if you were fake-claiming, unless you thought Yossarian was in the game as another player or something, but that line of thought leads to WIFOM. I haven't read the book or seen the movie, so my knowledge is limited, but my research seems to inidacte that Captain Flume is not a very important character.
As for the role itself, to me it seems that it could either be in the game or not, no way to tell for sure. You seem pretty set on convincing us that it has to be in the game. I suppose we can see if anybody can counter it or something.
For your action you claim to have been role-blocked. From a fake-claim standpoint this means that nobody can easily disprove your action today. Maintaining a fake watcher claim is difficult as you can never really know who all visited the person you claim to have watched. So, saying you have been blocked can kind of operate as a "get out of making that guess free card" of sorts. On the other hand, I suppose we could simply wait with the case on you until tomorrow to see if you can back up this claim.
I am less confident about you being town after your claim than I was before it...