Vanilla Elementary Mafia - TOWN WINS!

[fusibaseball]

Sorry for the confusion guys. I only said "it's not in Town's best interest for me to reveal" because I wanted it to sound like I had a power role so hopefully people would want to keep me around and buy me some time. I'm a Vanilla townie but wanted to sound more important.

I like how I actually live to be cleared by the cop and now people are buying this idea that I'm a Godfather in a Vanilla game. Use your own brain people

I believe Dega is cop because he cleared me (not sure why he would do that if he was Scum) which by extrapolation clears Darin. My order or chummy-to-scummy is:

1) Degaston -> cop
2) Darin -> doctor
3) Duke -> using his brain
4) DDS -> genuine efforts to being detective but seems not suspicious of Pixar/Chana/Law who have not been cleared which is a little weird to me. I think he has FOS'ed Pixar but not sure
5) Pixar -> I don't know what to think of this player
6) Law -> throws votes around, has actively bandwagoned all Townie votes including myself and Max and strike if I'm not mistaken
7) Chana -> same, just more egregious. No care given to potentially voting out another Townie.

[degaston]

I'm not buying it. SOP is to lynch all liars.

[fusibaseball]

At this point it's hard to tell if there's power roles or not, so I'm just confused at all the finger pointing. Nobody actually has any "true" evidence other than just saying "Chana and pixar have been quiet let's get them". In my opinion and yes it's not "great" evidence but I'm leaning toward DDS or Deg. Probability that one of them is lying and one is telling the truth are the best we got. We lynch DDS and he comes out scum, we have pretty good evidence that Deg is telling the truth. Same if we lynch Deg and he comes out scum instead of claimed cop role we know DDS is town and there are no power roles, in which case we could target Darin the next day for his maybe "fake claim". I don't like the idea of lynching someone just because they are quiet, usually never works out well for town, hell Deg investigated Fusi and so claimed Fusi as town and Fusi has been quiet? So I'm going to flip a coin and go with DDS, just because he has not claimed a power role so if he comes out town it hurts less than Deg coming out an actual cop if he was to get lynched.

unvote vote DDS

I have not really considered Pixar until now. Dega's evaluations and logic are typically superlative and I do find credibility in his argument of number of power roles. In a setup of 12 players with a Doc and Cop in play, it's very possible the third is Godfather which I hadn't considered. Which leads me to think something along the lines of:

Mafia
1) Pixar -> Godfather (potentially)
2) Chanakam -> Regular Scum. Has not FOS'ed Pixar and likewise

Third Party:
3) None or Law

Town:
4) Dega -> Cop
5) Darin -> Doc
6) Strike/DDS -> Vanilla
7) Fusi -> Vanilla
Duke -> Vanilla
9) Max -> Vanilla LYNCHED
10 ) EW -> Vanilla KILLED BY MAFIA
11) Law -> Vanilla/3rd party unknown

[*Pixar*]

I'm just confused, is Godfather a common role in every mafia game? In such a small class like this game, don't you think it would be a little overpowered to have a role like that, with only two power roles so far confirmed on the townies side?

[fusibaseball]

Unvote Chana

I will review this tonight but think I might be onto something

[degaston]

I'm just confused, is Godfather a common role in every mafia game? In such a small class like this game, don't you think it would be a little overpowered to have a role like that, with only two power roles so far confirmed on the townies side?

It's certainly not in every game, but it serves to weaken the cop, which would help to balance the game if the town/scum ratio is skewed towards town.

This is from another game:

Scum roleblocker is pretty common. Its up there with goon and godfather for most common mafia roles.

[fusibaseball]

I think we may have a 3rd party player, as 2 Mafia with 9 Town seems imbalanced toward Town (that would require over 4 days of Mafia being perfect) or we have 3 Mafia, in which case I don't think Mafia has a power role as that is too imbalanced for scum.

So I think it's something like what I said above with Law/someone else sneaking by as 3rd party or 3 Mafia, in which case it looks something like this:

Scum: Pixar, Chana, Law/Duke (3)

Town: Dega, DDS, Darin, Fusi, Law/Duke (5)

In which case we cannot mis-lynch tonight or Mafia will kill another Town tonight and win the game. So I would encourage Town to take their time with this lynch and not bandwagon on a cleared player when there are other options who have not even had to claim yet and have been very suspicious (from Fusi's humble perspective).

[TrafalgarLaw01]

I'm not conviced the Godfather role is in play, as I said then not much of a Vanilla game.
I think we only have 2 mafia otherwise if we failed today we are done.


PD: Just to point out Fusi I never voted or suspected of strike

[fusibaseball]

@Law, I agree. I lean towards 2 Mafia with a third party for flavor.

Re-vote Chana

Every permutation I come up with has Chana in the scum circle, 2 or 3 or Third party notwithstanding. I would like to hear what Chana's opinion of Pixar is and likewise.

[*Pixar*]

Chana is a real tough one to judge. Seems to me like he is very easily manipulated to changing votes. Giving me vibes that he's okay with voting anyone to lynch in this point of the game. I do give props to the scum team for confusing the **** out of all us townies. Deg bringing up Godfather is a good point but also not sure if it fits into this type of game, not sure though. Just doesn't seem to fit well in an "Elementary" type setting in my opinion.

[degaston]

I'm not conviced the Godfather role is in play, as I said then not much of a Vanilla game.

We already know it's not a "pure vanilla" game. Cop, Doc, and Godfather are some of the most common roles.

PD: Just to point out Fusi I never voted or suspected of strike

I don't know what you're trying to say here. Could you explain what you mean by this?

[TrafalgarLaw01]

I'm not conviced the Godfather role is in play, as I said then not much of a Vanilla game.

We already know it's not a "pure vanilla" game. Cop, Doc, and Godfather are some of the most common roles.

PD: Just to point out Fusi I never voted or suspected of strike

I don't know what you're trying to say here. Could you explain what you mean by this?

I know its not pure Vanilla game. Is the godfather a Common role? I think standard is doc and cop.

Fusi said i was on the bandwagon against Max, Fusi and Strike.
I did not vote max, although I said I would have cause call8ng everyone stupid is not a great defence. And I did vote for fusi. But I never voted or accused strike

[degaston]

I'm not conviced the Godfather role is in play, as I said then not much of a Vanilla game.

We already know it's not a "pure vanilla" game. Cop, Doc, and Godfather are some of the most common roles.

PD: Just to point out Fusi I never voted or suspected of strike

I don't know what you're trying to say here. Could you explain what you mean by this?

I know its not pure Vanilla game. Is the godfather a Common role? I think standard is doc and cop.

Fusi said i was on the bandwagon against Max, Fusi and Strike.
I did not vote max, although I said I would have cause call8ng everyone stupid is not a great defence. And I did vote for fusi. But I never voted or accused strike

I just mentioned in my previous post that Godfather is one of the most common scum roles. Combine that with fusi not claiming at L-2 as he should have, implying that he had a power role, twice asking me to investigate him, and not correcting anyone through all the back-and-forth confusion with DDS should make it clear that fusi is not acting in the town's best interest.

"Lynch all liars" is pretty unambiguous.
Townies should never lie. Scum has to lie.
If you allow someone to lie and don't lynch them, then that makes it a viable strategy for the scum.
We will never know if he is telling the truth from now on, so he must be lynched.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I'm not conviced the Godfather role is in play, as I said then not much of a Vanilla game.

We already know it's not a "pure vanilla" game. Cop, Doc, and Godfather are some of the most common roles.

PD: Just to point out Fusi I never voted or suspected of strike

I don't know what you're trying to say here. Could you explain what you mean by this?

I know its not pure Vanilla game. Is the godfather a Common role? I think standard is doc and cop.

Fusi said i was on the bandwagon against Max, Fusi and Strike.
I did not vote max, although I said I would have cause call8ng everyone stupid is not a great defence. And I did vote for fusi. But I never voted or accused strike

I just mentioned in my previous post that Godfather is one of the most common scum roles. Combine that with fusi not claiming at L-2 as he should have, implying that he had a power role, twice asking me to investigate him, and not correcting anyone through all the back-and-forth confusion with DDS should make it clear that fusi is not acting in the town's best interest.

"Lynch all liars" is pretty unambiguous.
Townies should never lie. Scum has to lie.
If you allow someone to lie and don't lynch them, then that makes it a viable strategy for the scum.
We will never know if he is telling the truth from now on, so he must be lynched.

Dega is correct. A Godfather is pretty common in a standard set up, assuming there are power roles in this game. I'm more or less siding with Dega on this to confirm roles here.

To sound like a parrot, "lynch all liars." Name of the game for scum is to lie and misdirect. I can't see a more blatant example of someone getting caught out then this.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

I see, I was just asking if GOdfather was common or not, thanks.
I'll consider it then

[Ragian]

Vote count

3 Fusi (Dega, DDS, Chana) Fusi is at L-2
2 Chana (Fusi, Duke)
1 DDS (Pixar)

With eight alive, it takes five voting for the same to end the day. No deadline yet.

[chanakam2020]

Chana is a real tough one to judge. Seems to me like he is very easily manipulated to changing votes. Giving me vibes that he's okay with voting anyone to lynch in this point of the game. I do give props to the scum team for confusing the **** out of all us townies. Deg bringing up Godfather is a good point but also not sure if it fits into this type of game, not sure though. Just doesn't seem to fit well in an "Elementary" type setting in my opinion.

Yes I want to lynch some one today.
If we do not lynch some one, we continue to go without any real information.

viewtopic.php?f=213&t=239627&start=425#p5292545

^In above post I tried to analyses each possible lynching scenarios and the probabilities of getting new info in each lynching scenario. But it seems nobody interested to discuss along that line.
.
So I am trying to go with waves and trends and hoping some luck.
.
Dega's point about having a mafia- godfather or similar role is valid
If we believe town has power roles it is very possible and fair to mafia also have a power role to balance things.

I considered following two things to change my vote to fusi

1. He repeatedly requested to investigate him. As Dega said one possibility is he is mafia god father like role which has immune to investigation.
If he knew he is vanilla town , then why he was se eager to get investigated. Getting investigated and revealing some one as vanila townie does not give much benefit to town. It would give much more benifit to town if that investigation attempt was push to investigate some one else where probably a mafia member caught.
Knowing himself as vanilla townies and requesting to investigate is a wasting of valuable investigation turn which could have used to detect a mafia.

In both cases investigation turns are wasted without benefiting to town.

2. Fusi is the one who hammered Max

If some one come with some better reasoning or probability analysis I am open to discuss and change my vote.

[degaston]

1. He repeatedly requested to investigate him. As Dega said one possibility is he is mafia god father like role which has immune to investigation.
If he knew he is vanilla town , then why he was se eager to get investigated. Getting investigated and revealing some one as vanila townie does not give much benefit to town. It would give much more benifit to town if that investigation attempt was push to investigate some one else where probably a mafia member caught.
Knowing himself as vanilla townies and requesting to investigate is a wasting of valuable investigation turn which could have used to detect a mafia.

I was a little annoyed by the request, but felt like I couldn't ignore it. He had been under suspicion by some, and if I investigated someone else, then it might look like I was avoiding clearing him. I wasn't thinking about the Godfather role at the time.

[degaston]

https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=213&t=239627&start=425#p5292545

^In above post I tried to analyses each possible lynching scenarios and the probabilities of getting new info in each lynching scenario. But it seems nobody interested to discuss along that line.

I don't think math is very useful here. It usually can't account for the information that is already known, or the usefulness of information that will be revealed by a lynch.
The scum are always trying to deceive the town, and the town are almost always confused and unsure.

Lynching someone who has admitted to being deceptive should be one of the easiest decisions you'll make in this game.

[fusibaseball]

This is all just sooooo fishy. Where is all this heat coming from? I should be "cleared" by the cop and he should be evaluating other leads on other non-cleared players, even if he judges me suspicious. We've had no power roles revealed at all, yet we're going down this line of me being a Godfather.

Chana, I re-read your mathematics post above, and I think you are on an interesting train of thought. I think I give Degaston too much credibility when he could just be setting me up and leading Town to the slaughterhouse, one pig at a time. We 100% get new info by just killing one of these "claimed" power roles I'm still not even convinced exists at all. And why is he so hellbent on getting me out when I A) haven't lied and B) haven't been deceptive? If you'd rather try me on the basis that I'm a Godfather for the 33% chance of getting new info, go for it, but for now I'm just gonna go toe-to-toe with him. If he wins and I show Town tonight and there's still a fighting chance tomorrow, you all know who to go after.

Vote Degaston

[degaston]

This is all just sooooo fishy. Where is all this heat coming from? I should be "cleared" by the cop and he should be evaluating other leads on other non-cleared players, even if he judges me suspicious. We've had no power roles revealed at all, yet we're going down this line of me being a Godfather.

Chana, I re-read your mathematics post above, and I think you are on an interesting train of thought. I think I give Degaston too much credibility when he could just be setting me up and leading Town to the slaughterhouse, one pig at a time. We 100% get new info by just killing one of these "claimed" power roles I'm still not even convinced exists at all. And why is he so hellbent on getting me out when I A) haven't lied and B) haven't been deceptive? If you'd rather try me on the basis that I'm a Godfather for the 33% chance of getting new info, go for it, but for now I'm just gonna go toe-to-toe with him. If he wins and I show Town tonight and there's still a fighting chance tomorrow, you all know who to go after.

Vote Degaston

The "heat" is coming from you not claiming when you were at L-2 or even L-1, and giving everyone the false impression that you had a power role. You already admitted that you "wanted it to sound like [you] had a power role", now you're lying again by claiming that you didn't lie and weren't deceptive.

Just to remind everyone, first it was:

Sorry guys. I'm not claiming because it's not beneficial to Town for me to. If that gets me killed on night 2 so be it.

If necessary I'm fine with going around and full claiming but I'll probably get night killed if we do.

Then after pages and pages of discussion based on fusi having some kind of cleared power role:

Sorry for the confusion guys. I only said "it's not in Town's best interest for me to reveal" because I wanted it to sound like I had a power role so hopefully people would want to keep me around and buy me some time.

It wasn't confusion.
It was deception, by you, and it was deliberate.

Darin and Law, you need to step up and make your votes.

[Darin44]

This is all just sooooo fishy. Where is all this heat coming from? I should be "cleared" by the cop and he should be evaluating other leads on other non-cleared players, even if he judges me suspicious. We've had no power roles revealed at all, yet we're going down this line of me being a Godfather.

Chana, I re-read your mathematics post above, and I think you are on an interesting train of thought. I think I give Degaston too much credibility when he could just be setting me up and leading Town to the slaughterhouse, one pig at a time. We 100% get new info by just killing one of these "claimed" power roles I'm still not even convinced exists at all. And why is he so hellbent on getting me out when I A) haven't lied and B) haven't been deceptive? If you'd rather try me on the basis that I'm a Godfather for the 33% chance of getting new info, go for it, but for now I'm just gonna go toe-to-toe with him. If he wins and I show Town tonight and there's still a fighting chance tomorrow, you all know who to go after.

Vote Degaston

"lynch all liars."

vote fusi

[fusibaseball]

I'm sorry I can't keep up as religiously as you or some players. I should have cleared up the confusion earlier, to that I agree. Everything else you've said there is putting words in my mouth and propaganda.

I don't really believe anything you say at this point, actually. I think we have one of 2 situations:

1) Scum is Pixar and Chana. Pixar's summary of chana was generic and not insightful and neither have FOS'ed each other. But, I liked Chana's mathematical approach in his earlier post, which now makes me lean towards...

2) Scum is DDS and Degaston. They put on this elaborate "argument" so that nobody could follow. You (Degaston) made attempts to FOS other players, didn't get any traction, and so are now spinning this Godfather thread in the hopes of swindling other players. I actually don't think there's any power roles at all, except for maybe Darin as Doc to save himself as there was no Night 2 kill. We likely have 2 generic scum, 8 Vanilla Town with 1 Doc or 1 Third party.

By your own criteria, we should be voting based off deception and lying. And I think you're doing it in spades. Right now

[fusibaseball]

I haven't lied once this game. I alluded to a power role to buy me time to be "investigated"...if that gets my lynched and loses Town the game, so be it.

[fusibaseball]

You know what...screw it. I'm a Godfather who returned Town on our Cop's investigation. In our Vanilla game.

One of you 3 (Pixar, Duke, Law) just hammer me. Let the bird fly

(Just to be clear, so on my reveal it makes sense, I had 5 votes on me for being "quiet" so saying I'm Vanilla town at that point isn't exactly a strong defense and was my fast one-way ticket to getting lynched anyway. Alluding to a power role was my safest and best option; would do again. And now I'm one vote away again for "lying" when Degaston can't even find an actual lie and is resorting to "deception". Don't let him swindle you guys again D5 if Town still gets to vote and there's only 2 Scum.)

I could go through and find quotes and piece together his line of trying to incriminate Pixar, not getting any traction, then magically drawing up the FOS on me after being "cleared" but I just don't really feel like it. Read for yourself.

FUSI OUT