Zelda Mafia ~ Town Wins! Hyrule is Safe

[drunkmonkey]

Questions:
Why did we get out of the revealing the Deku Tree? Someone said its the same as everyone revealing pro-town or not because mafia knows each other. Whats different in this case is that no one can really lie and say they are the Deku Tree, they are gonna get counter claimed. however if the tree has a good power, keep it yourself.

I wouldn't mind touching on this again. The more I think about it, the thief is either mafia or Maple. I could see Maple having an ability that randomly either swaps items, gives items, or takes items. I can't imagine another townie would take items from Links. In this case, here are the scenarios (as I see it):

1) Thief is mafia. Mafia knows the identity of (ex-)Potion Link and Deku Tree.
2) Thief is not mafia. Mafia knows the identity of Deku Tree, but not Potion Link. However, this Link is now vanilla.
3) A busdriver role could have changed the target of Mafia or Potion Link. From the scene flavor, I don't believe Link was driven. However, mafia could have been.

In scenarios 1 and 2, we could clear two townies, as they could confirm each other. Since mafia knows the identity of Deku Tree, there's no harm in outing him to town. If mafia is the thief, the same applies to Potion Link. If not, we outed a vanilla townie.

In case 3, we out the Deku Tree to mafia, which would be a mistake. I think this scenario is unlikely, but possible.

The reason I bring this up now is that mafia could kill one of these two tonight, and then use their role as a fake claim later, and no one would be able to tell the difference. I'd like to hear the disadvantages to this, as I'm sure I'm overlooking something.

[spiesr]

Alright let's try this again. Anyhow, I haven't finished reading the entire thread yet, so forgive me if this has already been brought up or something.

vote Dazza
He needs some more attention.

Epitaph made this post on Day 1 when there was less than a day remaining until the deadline hit. By that time it had been established that whomever had the most votes at the deadline would be lynched, and this was before the consensus shifted to a no lynch plan. So, why did Epitaph go off and vote for someone who had no votes and them at the moment, and with almost no reasoning explained behind it? Was it just a noob mistake? Was he seriously trying to get people to lynch Dazza at that point in time? Was it some attempt to simply distract people from the ongoing cases for whatever reason? Did he simply want to throw his vote away so it wouldn't be attached to any of the then current candidates for a lynch? It just doesn't seem to make sense on the surface, FOS Epitaph...

[MoB Deadly]

Questions:
Why did we get out of the revealing the Deku Tree? Someone said its the same as everyone revealing pro-town or not because mafia knows each other. Whats different in this case is that no one can really lie and say they are the Deku Tree, they are gonna get counter claimed. however if the tree has a good power, keep it yourself.

I wouldn't mind touching on this again. The more I think about it, the thief is either mafia or Maple. I could see Maple having an ability that randomly either swaps items, gives items, or takes items. I can't imagine another townie would take items from Links. In this case, here are the scenarios (as I see it):

1) Thief is mafia. Mafia knows the identity of (ex-)Potion Link and Deku Tree.
2) Thief is not mafia. Mafia knows the identity of Deku Tree, but not Potion Link. However, this Link is now vanilla.
3) A busdriver role could have changed the target of Mafia or Potion Link. From the scene flavor, I don't believe Link was driven. However, mafia could have been.

In scenarios 1 and 2, we could clear two townies, as they could confirm each other. Since mafia knows the identity of Deku Tree, there's no harm in outing him to town. If mafia is the thief, the same applies to Potion Link. If not, we outed a vanilla townie.

In case 3, we out the Deku Tree to mafia, which would be a mistake. I think this scenario is unlikely, but possible.

The reason I bring this up now is that mafia could kill one of these two tonight, and then use their role as a fake claim later, and no one would be able to tell the difference. I'd like to hear the disadvantages to this, as I'm sure I'm overlooking something.

2) Reversed right, he knows potion Link, but not Deku Tree?

I agree on all counts, including that a bus drive is very unlikely. Since it would have effected a kill, I would assume it would be in the scene.

So there is NO reason the Deku Tree should not reveal, it would only benefit the town, unless this tree has incredible power and was scared of dying. But take into account that we may have a witch with a shield depending on the mechanics of the role

I do not think potion Link should reveal himself just yet. Only because we do not know:
1. If thief is mafia
2. The mechanics of the Thiefs role. Does he have to return the item before taking a different one? Or does the steal wear off and Link recovers the stolen item? Or if the thief dies do things return? So since mafia doesn't know the doctor, lets keep it hidden just in case link gets his potion back.

vote Dazza
He needs some more attention.

I did see this too, but I think later things I saw took him off my list or something, Ill check again

[MoB Deadly]

What I meant is - I need to check on Epitaph1, for the reasoning of this vote is suspect

[spiesr]

I have a theory on the missing potion. There might not be any thief. There is a possibility that the witch simply switched the potion with a player who didn't have an item. Not sure what exactly would happen in that situation, but it certainly seems possible...

If rds was going to lie, why would he give 2 names? That doubles his chances of being caught, and before he told us, we had no idea he had the ability to block 2 people.

I agree with this logic.

Listen! If Victor was not blocked it sounds to me that rds is lying. It is also not the first time in the game rds has appeared scummy in my opinion. With him roleclaiming early day 1 for no reason and playing the newb card a lot(even though he is actually experienced enough). Just all seems scummy to me.
vote rds

Hey! unvote I forgot about the busdriver role. I have never played a game with that in it yet. I will wait to hear more.

Dazza strikes me as somewhat scummy here. He is all quick to jump on the RDS wagon once Victor starts it off, but as soon as any opposition shows up he is a little too quick to try and distance himself from it.

I guess we'll just have to see what happens N3.

Seriously, what kind of plan is that? You are not even going to attempt to pull anything useful out of today?

Well with rds and VS i don't know how else except for a bus driver incident which seems very plausible if they are both innocent.

Well, with Victor's claimed power to go back in time, there is a possibility that there could be side effects in the way other roles interact with him. It is certainly possible that the boomerang will hit him when he goes back to Night 2. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens there.

I was thinking that there was no mention of a rolebock on hensow in the day scene and that rds claimed to have roleblocked him doesn't make sense. For (1)roleblocking a claimed bulletproof won't do anything (unless you thought he fakeclaimed) and (2)other players targeted hensow and i had my suspicions that rds may have fakeclaimed and had actually been either maple or the sword link.

There are so many issues with the logic in this post. For starters why would you assume that there being no mention of hesow being roleblocked indicates that it didn't happen? Obviously not all actions will be displayed in the scene. Since that action had no effect on anything, why would it need to be included? Even if it did effect things, not everything will be in the scene. Next, why in the world do you think that RDS might be the witch or the Link with the Sword (Vig powers?) and then fakeclaim something different? We have received no indication that either or those role would be scum, so if RDS had them why would he need to lie and risk being found out? There are so many ways that could backfire, I mean there could actually be someone with roleblocker powers or an actual Link with a boomerang, and basically no benefit to such a lie. So why would he do it? Also, we don't have any proof as of yet that RDS went to Hensow, so why would you assume that if he is lying he is actually someone else who went there? Your post makes no sense at all!

[drunkmonkey]

The reason I bring this up now is that mafia could kill one of these two tonight, and then use their role as a fake claim later, and no one would be able to tell the difference. I'd like to hear the disadvantages to this, as I'm sure I'm overlooking something.

I just realized that when someone is killed, their character is revealed, so this is a moot point. Sorry...this is my first mafia game, and sometimes I overlook the obvious.

[MoB Deadly]

The reason I bring this up now is that mafia could kill one of these two tonight, and then use their role as a fake claim later, and no one would be able to tell the difference. I'd like to hear the disadvantages to this, as I'm sure I'm overlooking something.

I just realized that when someone is killed, their character is revealed, so this is a moot point. Sorry...this is my first mafia game, and sometimes I overlook the obvious.

Wow thats surprising, I got the idea you were a mafia veteran!! This is my second game as well, (stil havent completed a forum game yet). but I played a lot of RT mafia

[drake_259]

Well with rds and VS i don't know how else except for a bus driver incident which seems very plausible if they are both innocent.

Well, with Victor's claimed power to go back in time, there is a possibility that there could be side effects in the way other roles interact with him. It is certainly possible that the boomerang will hit him when he goes back to Night 2. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens there.

I actually like this theory if mod went that advance i alway thought he wouldn't be able to go back in time as he was blocked first. but it seems like a crazy but nice idea that he can't use his next action N3 when he is in past.

Also while talking about this RDSD does you power ONLY allow you you go to the previous night or could you choose any night you wish? just wondering and checking although i believe it is only the previous night.

[dazza2008]

I agree with this logic.

Listen! If Victor was not blocked it sounds to me that rds is lying. It is also not the first time in the game rds has appeared scummy in my opinion. With him roleclaiming early day 1 for no reason and playing the newb card a lot(even though he is actually experienced enough). Just all seems scummy to me.
vote rds

Hey! unvote I forgot about the busdriver role. I have never played a game with that in it yet. I will wait to hear more.

Dazza strikes me as somewhat scummy here. He is all quick to jump on the RDS wagon once Victor starts it off, but as soon as any opposition shows up he is a little too quick to try and distance himself from it.

Hey! I voted because I was suspicious then unvoted as a valid reason was given as to what could have happened. I have looked up most of the roles that are used in games but probably need to have a look again. Its alot of info to take in.

Also MoB, Rodion made the point about putting more than 1 line and I understood it but thanks for saying again. I will put more into my posts.

I am not sure what to think of this right now. I need to have a read through all of this again. I will hopefully manage over the weekend if the kids let me.

[MoB Deadly]

I have a theory on the missing potion. There might not be any thief. There is a possibility that the witch simply switched the potion with a player who didn't have an item. Not sure what exactly would happen in that situation, but it certainly seems possible...

Hmmm, i was thinking about that too. However the doctor was the focal point in the scene, if the witch took the bottle, I think it would be in the scene similar to N1

[spiesr]

Time is ticking away towards the deadline, quick Sully, play the Inverted Song of Time! Squirrel, can we get a vote count? Also can you edit the first page to indicate who replaced whom?
Now that I mention Victor, I have some questions. What game are you from that you posses the ocarina of time? I mean the only games where you get it are Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask right? And isn't the Majora's Mask Link dead? And isn't he supposed to be the same Link as the one in Ocarina of Time? Or are the items the Link's have not representative of the game they are from?

[MoB Deadly]

As Link with a Potion seems like a role and Link with a Shield is a role I don't think they are based on game. I request a vote count too if you can please. I think we need to lynch these inactives, as they are no use to us right now. If there is a case we can all decide to go for shortly I will definitely be active and will vote accordingly.

Until then unvote vote commander9

I am also in favor of voting / right now too if you guys prefer

[Mr. Squirrel]

Vote Count

Killboy (4) - rodion, rds, drake, nag
rds (1) - sully,
MoB (1) - yoshi
C9 (1) - MoB

18 alive, 10 to lynch
The first post shows the correct roster

[pancakemix]

Time is ticking away towards the deadline, quick Sully, play the Inverted Song of Time! Squirrel, can we get a vote count? Also can you edit the first page to indicate who replaced whom?
Now that I mention Victor, I have some questions. What game are you from that you posses the ocarina of time? I mean the only games where you get it are Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask right? And isn't the Majora's Mask Link dead? And isn't he supposed to be the same Link as the one in Ocarina of Time? Or are the items the Link's have not representative of the game they are from?

The Links are based on games, the items they have are not. I established this in my previous post, which I'm not happy that no one responded to.

Speaking of which, vote rds because I really wanted him to respond to it.

[MoB Deadly]

I thought we were past this already..... This is from Day 1.....

I stand by my request to have more information from rds and will not unvote until I have received it.

What do you want to know?

-rd

What game your Link is from. You should be able to tell from the art.

Unvote because you intend to give the info if you can.

To be honest, I don't know. One of the very first ones. It's all low-res and stuff...I've only played games from Windwaker for GC onwards.

-rd

Link with a boomerang has to be 8 bit link for sure.

I still fail to understand why you are trying to get this information.. Do you believe he is not town based on ALL the other things he said? Barring Victors results tonight though

[MoB Deadly]

but just to get this over with... rds do any of these look like yours?




What color is your boomerang if it is in your image?

[pancakemix]

I still fail to understand why you are trying to get this information.. Do you believe he is not town based on ALL the other things he said? Barring Victors results tonight though

I believe there is potential for that, yes. I try not to speak in absolutes. My main concerns are the likelihood of a Dark Link and the fact that we shouldn't expect ANY info from Victor because chances are he'll be dead.

but just to get this over with... rds do any of these look like yours?
[img]

[img]

What color is your boomerang if it is in your image?

I'd rather you didn't feed him potential answers.

[Victor Sullivan]

Time is ticking away towards the deadline, quick Sully, play the Inverted Song of Time! Squirrel, can we get a vote count? Also can you edit the first page to indicate who replaced whom?
Now that I mention Victor, I have some questions. What game are you from that you posses the ocarina of time? I mean the only games where you get it are Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask right? And isn't the Majora's Mask Link dead? And isn't he supposed to be the same Link as the one in Ocarina of Time? Or are the items the Link's have not representative of the game they are from?

I'm not a Link from a Zelda game that has the Ocarina (which I think is only, well, "The Ocarina of Time").


After pancake's comment:

The Links are based on games, the items they have are not.

This struck a bad note with me, as a Link would know this (pancake's statement, I mean):

Link with a boomerang has to be 8 bit link for sure.

This, of course, could mean he's a supporting character (a pro-town non-Link), but it's something. Vote BG

It's been a while, so I forget if he's been cleared, I'll admit I haven't gone back to check.

-Sully

[drunkmonkey]

I still fail to understand why you are trying to get this information.. Do you believe he is not town based on ALL the other things he said? Barring Victors results tonight though

I believe there is potential for that, yes. I try not to speak in absolutes. My main concerns are the likelihood of a Dark Link and the fact that we shouldn't expect ANY info from Victor because chances are he'll be dead.

Hence why I didn't want to push rds to tell who he roleblocked. That caused Victor to spill all his information, and now mafia has a target.

FOS pcm. I feel like you're pushing this rds thing once again to deter any other discussions.

[pancakemix]

The Links are based on games, the items they have are not.

This struck a bad note with me, as a Link would know this (pancake's statement, I mean):

Link with a boomerang has to be 8 bit link for sure.

This, of course, could mean he's a supporting character (a pro-town non-Link), but it's something. Vote BG

Actually, upon further review it looks like Edoc and Hensow might be reversed in the first post. I'd have to see the shield Hensow had in order to fully stand by this, but right now I think there MIGHT be a correlation.

The fact that you aren't from OoT would indicate that any Link can hold any item if he has the means to receive it. However this says nothing of what items the Links actually start with.

Hence why I didn't want to push rds to tell who he roleblocked. That caused Victor to spill all his information, and now mafia has a target.

FOS pcm. I feel like you're pushing this rds thing once again to deter any other discussions.

What other discussions? Killboy? That's not a discussion. It's a lynch not really based on anything. I fail to see how I'm deterring anything.

As for pushing for rds' info, information is power. No info, you're just guessing. If you're just guessing, you lose. It's that simple.

Victor came forward with info that counteracted rds' claim. You don't think that's cause for concern?

[drunkmonkey]

Victor came forward with info that counteracted rds' claim. You don't think that's cause for concern?

I don't think he did. This is how I understood Victor's role:

N1: Victor chose a target
N2: Victor received info on that target; Victor chose a new target

If this is how it worked, then the N2 result is related to the N1 action, which was not blocked. If he doesn't get a N3 result, then we will know the N2 action was blocked. Victor, please clarify if I misunderstood this.

Also, as I pointed out before, rds claimed to block 2 people on N2. If he was lying, why would he divulge this extra information? It would double his chances of being caught, for no gain.

[Rodion]

Victor came forward with info that counteracted rds' claim. You don't think that's cause for concern?

I don't think he did. This is how I understood Victor's role:

N1: Victor chose a target
N2: Victor received info on that target; Victor chose a new target

If this is how it worked, then the N2 result is related to the N1 action, which was not blocked. If he doesn't get a N3 result, then we will know the N2 action was blocked. Victor, please clarify if I misunderstood this.

That's not how I understood it.

N1: Victor can't use his power since there is no N0
N2: Victor targets someone and receives N1 info regarding that target
N3: Victor targets someone and receives N2 info regarding that target

Also, as I pointed out before, rds claimed to block 2 people on N2. If he was lying, why would he divulge this extra information? It would double his chances of being caught, for no gain.

Monkey, that's WIFOM.

[Victor Sullivan]

Rodion's got the idea a little better, but not quite.

N1: No item, no action. I think I received the Ocarina at the end of N1, before D2 started.
N2: Targeted nagerous, received information regarding who nagerous targeted from N2.

I'd guess that I would be a Thief target than a kill target, but Idk.

-Sully

[MoB Deadly]

How can a tracker role clear Nagerous?

And when you say "previous night", do you mean your N2 track gets you a report from N1?

I mean Night 1.

Victor, please elaborate as to how I am cleared.

You targeted Hensow Night 1, and given the flavor of the scene from Night 1, I'd guess you to be the vig Link.

-Sully

Thats a lie!! You said right here that he targeted Hensow Night 1, now you are saying he targeted him Night 2... What is going on??
Which actually cant be true, because Hensow died N1..... So please review and post again.

[Rodion]

You targeted Hensow Night 1, and given the flavor of the scene from Night 1, I'd guess you to be the vig Link.

-Sully

"Nag visited Hensow during N1" was my Night 2 report about Night 1. Like I said, I track what someone did the night before.

Why wouldn't it clear me? He did target Hensow after all, and I have claimed to hold the Ocarina, which no one has counterclaimed to hold, and the Ocarina of Time has to be in this game, no? Plus, the power fits the item.

-Sully

N2: Targeted nagerous, received information regarding who nagerous targeted from N2.

I'd guess that I would be a Thief target than a kill target, but Idk.

-Sully

Obvious lie is obvious.

Vote Victor Sullivan.

Looks like he was "pulling a Chapcrap" (denying having been roleblocked to get the probable-town roleblocker mislynched, just like Chap did against Jonty in Game of Thrones Mafia).