ASoIaF Mafia Prologue (10/13) - D3: The Bloody Winter Rose

[Iron Butterfly]

I see what you mean Fir, but given the lack of a second kill last night, I don't really think we have a SKer and this is too small a game for cult. Unless Neb thinks his faction is weak or likely to draw lynch votes, I can't see a reason for him to be faking either faction or role right now.

We are not even sure there was a first kill are we? The scene indicates something happened, but there was definitely no kill.

I really don't think that Commander would put in 3 side picking roles in basically a faction game. There's so much power there.

I like how Fircoal uses the "if I were the mod..." argument to make a case. Faulty logic anytime this is used. All claims so far make sense from a character, role and faction stand point. For you to throw doubt on the claims based on a "the mod wouldn't put 3 side picking roles in...a game" is misleading at best. My vote stays on Fircoal...

This game is more then just role claims and what they can do. So yes your claim may be believable but one has to ask themselves what would your win condition be and why would we want you to achieve it? Your character by nature is one of a back stabbing scumbag and your role has not been fully been revealed. Even you have not been told what happens with you once you pick sides.

You also state you need to pick sides by tonight BUT if it was as simple as that you would have simply done so no?
Why not simply join the Lannister's? You are either hedging your bets or withholding information, which I think is the case. What more would you need?? You have a great hiding spot...unless of course you can only hide behind a player once.

[spiesr]

You also state you need to pick sides by tonight BUT if it was as simple as that you would have simply done so no?

Come on Iron Butterfly why are you asking questions when the answer is obvious? (Assuming his claim is true) he hasn't joined a side yet because it would be advantageous to wait and see which side is winning so he doesn't pick the losing side. (Just like in the source material.) That does carry the risk of him dying before picking a side (Which I presume would be worth less victory points than joining the winning side and then dying.) or someone achieving a greater or greatest victory and ending the game before he does so. (As before.)

Why not simply join the Lannister's?

I believe he mentioned this not being mechanically possible.

[Nebuchadnezer]

This game is more then just role claims and what they can do. So yes your claim may be believable but one has to ask themselves what would your win condition be and why would we want you to achieve it? Your character by nature is one of a back stabbing scumbag and your role has not been fully been revealed. Even you have not been told what happens with you once you pick sides.

You're kidding right? My role HAS been fully revealed. The only thing left to reveal would be my win condition, so please stop pushing me for more info. I have been told that I can hide behind most of players in the game...with a few exceptions (I was not told what those exceptions were). Picking a side doesn't change the fact that I'm still a Hider. It may limit who I can safely hide behind, but that is not my secret to reveal (only the mod knows).

You also state you need to pick sides by tonight BUT if it was as simple as that you would have simply done so no?
Why not simply join the Lannister's? You are either hedging your bets or withholding information, which I think is the case. What more would you need?? You have a great hiding spot...unless of course you can only hide behind a player once.

Quit trying to make me look bad by using false accusations and twisting what I've said. I have to pick by TONIGHT (N2). It is still TODAY (D2). I already stated that the Lannisters are NOT a faction that I can join. It's either Rebels or Loyalists. Those are the only two sides in this game. I thought you were up on the ASoIaF information? You would know then, that it was either the Rebels or Loyalists in the fight. The Lannisters are not a faction, they are one of the unaligned players in the game that must choose a faction.

And, yes, I would like to be on the winning side. I will make my decision as late as possible. Withholding information? I am one of three people to be forthcoming with information in this game. I would really like someone else in this game to start sharing information. Yet you and Fircoal like to keep the bullseye pointed firmly at me/Minister. I get it. You two are paired up...but for which faction?

At this point, you seem a little desperate and off in your false accusations. I'm going to wait and see how I feel later, but I'm inclined to switch my vote to you for all the crap you are posting.

[jonty125]

vote IB, for not following the game, I have very little idea about flavour but even I've managed to work out this is a two faction game, rebels & royalists, and that the Lannisters are not a faction.

[strike wolf]

Vote IB pretty much for what Jonty and Neb have said.

[Iron Butterfly]

Vote IB pretty much for what Jonty and Neb have said.

LOl they really have not said anything.

[jonty125]

Vote IB pretty much for what Jonty and Neb have said.

LOl they really have not said anything.

Kinda proves my point.

[Nebuchadnezer]

Vote IB pretty much for what Jonty and Neb have said.

LOl they really have not said anything.

Wow.

Unvote. VOTE Iron Butterfly

[Minister Masket]

I, of course, shall support my son.

Unvote, Vote Iron Butterfly

Time to determine if you have enough Iron in you to win the Iron Throne

[Iron Butterfly]

I ain't joining the Fircoal wagon, his is only crime (that has been presented) is not trusting MM, which is understandable.

u wot m8

Actually Fircoal pressed to lynch me both before and after I claimed, which goes far beyond "not trusting" in my book. We have neb's information, now would be an ideal time to see what Fircoal knows and why he's hostile.

[color=#FF0000I ain't Fircoal, so I'm not going to answer for him, but in my view, your vote on him is OMGUS, as you're trying to protect you & your faction.][/color]

A little hypocritical on your part jonty? One could argue the same for Neb.

[nagerous]

Too many people not posting for my taste. Seems like we are not getting anywhere either with a clear split in factions. Mod don't just set a deadline, replace the inactives.

[nagerous]

There is 0 case against IB, his suspicions against Frey are justified.

[nagerous]

Seems like some kind of third party protection mentality, not quite sure what jonty's game is.

[Nebuchadnezer]

There is 0 case against IB, his suspicions against Frey are justified.

He can be suspicious of me all he wants. What he can't do is post false statements about what I've said, and try to twist my words to get people to think I'm the one being shifty. My reasons for voting him having nothing to do with him not trusting Frey.

As for why only the third parties + Jonty are voting? I have no idea. Most people just feel content to sit back and do nothing. As per the books, too many people are concerned with playing politics. Do you all have information that we don't that let's you know who is on your side? Is this game going to be completely played at night?

[spiesr]

There is 0 case against IB, his suspicions against Frey are justified.

The "case" against Iron Butterfly is that his last few posts have grating that people are voting for him out of annoyance.

[jonty125]

[color=#FF0000I ain't Fircoal, so I'm not going to answer for him, but in my view, your vote on him is OMGUS, as you're trying to protect you & your faction.][/color]

A little hypocritical on your part jonty? One could argue the same for Neb.[/quote]

You could argue that for any vote I place, but there are clear differences between my vote on you, and MM's former vote on Fircoal.

[safariguy5]

Given how difficult is has been to get enough votes to threaten a lynch on anyone, I suspect that the IB wagon may be the best shot to get information out this day. Pressuring a third party claim to me signifies that IB must be afraid that Neb won't side with his faction. Perhaps IB is trying to eliminate a threat before it happens. On Neb's side, I can see how forcing a claim from IB would make sense seeing as how it may make Neb's choice easier. Also applies to the Lannisters, more information makes their choices easier.

I really don't see how else we're going to get the game moving during this day. Like I said before, if we can't get buy in from the third party roles, we're going to have trouble coming up with the votes necessary to lynch. unvote vote IB

[Fircoal]

There is 0 case against IB, his suspicions against Frey are justified.

and

There is 0 case against IB, his suspicions against Frey are justified.

The "case" against Iron Butterfly is that his last few posts have grating that people are voting for him out of annoyance.

also this

Vote IB pretty much for what Jonty and Neb have said.

LOl they really have not said anything.

This bandwagon is ridiculous. But when you have Neb, Masket, and Strike all on it, it probably can't be anything but. (And this is no slight to your abilities as players but rather your roles in this game)

Let's face it. The case on IB is a kin to. "He missed a couple of things stated in the thread." IS that bad? Yes. But it is not AS bad as say Neb or Masket who prance around in their 3rd partiness. I honestly think IB is just trying to get to the bottom of this. There are much bigger fish to fry than IB here.

[Fircoal]

I really don't think that Commander would put in 3 side picking roles in basically a faction game. There's so much power there.

I like how Fircoal uses the "if I were the mod..." argument to make a case. Faulty logic anytime this is used. All claims so far make sense from a character, role and faction stand point. For you to throw doubt on the claims based on a "the mod wouldn't put 3 side picking roles in...a game" is misleading at best. My vote stays on Fircoal...

Wrong on all accounts. Playing the mod is a viable strategy and there is a reason why. In fact in my games it tends to be that whoever knows me the best is able to get the best idea of what roles do and don't make sense. Also I don't know much about characters of this game. I do know about modding though and 3 faction choosers does not seem balanced. And from what I'm getting it sounds like it wouldn't be inconceivable for one of the three of yous to have a serial killer role or something like that.

[spiesr]

Pressuring a third party claim to me signifies that IB must be afraid that Neb won't side with his faction. Perhaps IB is trying to eliminate a threat before it happens.

This is a good point. However, if we take that idea and combine it with Neb's earlier statements implying he is loyalist leaning at the moment I must abstain from joining you in voting for Iron Buttery.

[Iron Butterfly]

[color=#FF0000I ain't Fircoal, so I'm not going to answer for him, but in my view, your vote on him is OMGUS, as you're trying to protect you & your faction.][/color]

A little hypocritical on your part jonty? One could argue the same for Neb.

You could argue that for any vote I place, but there are clear differences between my vote on you, and MM's former vote on Fircoal.[/quote]


Uhmmm I did not write that.

[Iron Butterfly]

the question I have is about Safari and jonty. Safari has been all but invisible by posting just enough to appear he is participating. Understandably he is standing back watching to see how things fall.

Why would anyone jump on a band wagon, one created out of spite more then anything, knowing that their faction may be exposed?? We know Stanis will perhaps die. Why would a person vote to reveal someones faction not knowing what they flip? If a player flips loyalist that puts a bullseye on the player to perhaps even the score. If the player flips rebel that is perhaps another nail in the coffin for the rebels.

What info would you want Safari? If you are rebel faction and I claim rebel that would put the rebel faction in a hard spot.
If I flip loyalist the rebels could perhaps tie the score up....and you would do that why??

To make matters worse I have the "The Three Amigos" gunning for me.

[Minister Masket]

Maybe you should spend less time complaining about "The Three Amigos" and more time trying to get us on side. Because then it doesn't matter which side you claim for, as you'll have us backing you up, and removing the so-called "bullseye".

Fircoal seems to believe we have killing powers, in reality my night actions are far more defensive in nature.

Iron Butterfly, Fircoal and nagerous have been very supportive of each other's posts. That's a strong alliance right there.

[Fircoal]

Maybe you should spend less time complaining about "The Three Amigos" and more time trying to get us on side. Because then it doesn't matter which side you claim for, as you'll have us backing you up, and removing the so-called "bullseye".

Fircoal seems to believe we have killing powers, in reality my night actions are far more defensive in nature.

Iron Butterfly, Fircoal and nagerous have been very supportive of each other's posts. That's a strong alliance right there.

Honestly I think that at best you are what you say you are and you can pick a faction to join. Which means for each faction you have a 50% chance of choosing them or a 50% chance of choosing the other side and screwing over their faction. At worse you're a 3rd party role that does killy kill stuff that needs to die. Really in my opinion there is no risk here. We either kill a gamechanging 3rd party, or we kill an evil 3rd party.

[strike wolf]

the question I have is about Safari and jonty. Safari has been all but invisible by posting just enough to appear he is participating. Understandably he is standing back watching to see how things fall.

Why would anyone jump on a band wagon, one created out of spite more then anything, knowing that their faction may be exposed?? We know Stanis will perhaps die. Why would a person vote to reveal someones faction not knowing what they flip? If a player flips loyalist that puts a bullseye on the player to perhaps even the score. If the player flips rebel that is perhaps another nail in the coffin for the rebels.

What info would you want Safari? If you are rebel faction and I claim rebel that would put the rebel faction in a hard spot.
If I flip loyalist the rebels could perhaps tie the score up....and you would do that why??

Because getting claims and deciding if we should vote people is the way that mafia works and if we go no lynch & no claim every day it will be a very boring game. By the logic of Worrying that our faction may be exposed than we should never form a case ever in any game because that player might be town and therefore only mafia would want claims. Vote everyone who has ever made a case in any game ever

To make matters worse I have the "The Three Amigos" gunning for me.

Boo fucking hoo. If you haven't noticed us "three amigos" aren't sitting all that pretty with you, nag and Fircoal all seeming to want us dead for issues that don't even necessarily concern this game while most stay silent. So maybe you three musketeers should stop complaining about us three amigos. Unvote revote IB

Let's face it. The case on IB is a kin to. "He missed a couple of things stated in the thread." IS that bad? Yes. But it is not AS bad as say Neb or Masket who prance around in their 3rd partiness. I honestly think IB is just trying to get to the bottom of this. There are much bigger fish to fry than IB here.

It's one thing when you miss a few details. It's another thing when players like IB and Nag continually act ignorant to the basic set up to the game. So for the last time. This game is not based on the events of Game Of Thrones or The War of Five Kings. It's based on ROBERT'S REBELLION. Some facts about Robert's Rebellion:

1. The basic factions were the Rebels (Stark, Baratheon, Arryn and Tully) vs the Loyalists (Targaryens, Martell and Tyrell). The Lannisters and the Freys both stayed neutral until after the Battle of the Trident.

2. Neither Tywin Lannister nor Jaime Lannister ever tried to claim the Iron Throne.

3. Walder Frey never tried to either.

My problem is that you all want to prance around like "these guys are obvs evil and let's lynch the third parties we don't care about killing off the opposite faction to us anyways"

Nag. Well I have an idea who Nag might be and, if I am right, I understand why he would be hesitant to trust me. This is me saying, I don't care. I'm not after anybody. You and IB don't have that excuse, as the only justification I can see to your behavior would be if IB is Hoster Tully and has a win condition involving killing Frey (A stretch) or you're Doran Martell and want Tywin Lannister dead (again a stretch, Doran wouldn't have any problem with the Lannisters until after the war).

I can understand why you would be hesitant to believe that there would be 3 faction choosers but fact of the matter is that multiple third parties isn't new to commander.