South Park Mafia 2 Town Wins!

[MoB Deadly]

Hey Skillful, let's get a full claim here so we can decipher what is going on. I will vote, but I feel like I was not the reason for the no-kill, purely because of the flavor. However we cannot end this day with no info, so skillful is definitely someone I would like to pursue

fastposted

[skillfusniper33]

I have a final that starts in 5 hours so I am extremely busy to get a defense up, so if you give me around 8 hours I should be able to post something to help.

For my role I am Sheila Broflovski - Town One-Shot Vigilante. I haven't used the Vig yet.

[blakebowling]

Vote Count
skillfusniper33 (4) - ???, drunkmonkey, zimmah, sensfan (L-2)

With 11 alive, 6 votes are required to lynch.

[skillfusniper33]

I am Sheila Broflovski - Town One-Shot Vigilante. I haven't used the Vig yet.

For one the scene didn't have any flavor of a failed attempt at a kill (which zimmah politely said), which means I didn't try to use my ability, or was the person to do the killing if I were mafia. I have no idea why the mafia isn't trying to do some night kills since it is just giving us townies a lot longer to figure things out.

Yes I have been inactive, but every night I haven't done anything, since I haven't had much of a clue as to who I wanted to target with my vig, and didn't want to hit a town power role on accident.

I really find it interesting sens that you vote for me, even though you think this case is missing something. Even though there is plenty of pressure with people specifically saying that they would like to pursue it. I know sometimes the magic number can be at an L-2 for the whole claim thing, but I had a feeling this case wouldn't go away since I have had a lot of heat all day.

[zimmah]

I am Sheila Broflovski - Town One-Shot Vigilante. I haven't used the Vig yet.

For one the scene didn't have any flavor of a failed attempt at a kill (which zimmah politely said), which means I didn't try to use my ability, or was the person to do the killing if I were mafia. I have no idea why the mafia isn't trying to do some night kills since it is just giving us townies a lot longer to figure things out.

Yes I have been inactive, but every night I haven't done anything, since I haven't had much of a clue as to who I wanted to target with my vig, and didn't want to hit a town power role on accident.

I really find it interesting sens that you vote for me, even though you think this case is missing something. Even though there is plenty of pressure with people specifically saying that they would like to pursue it. I know sometimes the magic number can be at an L-2 for the whole claim thing, but I had a feeling this case wouldn't go away since I have had a lot of heat all day.

i think he's honest, flavor does not suggest a kill attempt, and it doesn't even really suggest anyone except mob was out at night.

unvote

no clue who to suspect tho, there's no lead at all, no kills for 2 nights in a row (which is good) and 1 player revived (which is good, if he's town)

we don't even know what threats we are facing, i doubt there's any SK in the game, which is good as well, but there definitely
is some kind of threat to town around, since we have not won yet. There's likely still some mafia around, and maybe there's more. Also, the claims on night 3 still do not match, so if we're going to believe safari, someone else must have lied.

[Epitaph1]

OK, I've reread the flavor and some of the claims afterwards a few times, and things just aren't lining up as a few of you have mentioned. This is more thinking aloud, but I want to make sure I have everything straight.

Boy watches house and sees not too motherly figure = this has to be Liane Cartman, she's a mom but not very motherly.

Boy thinks house is "too familiar" - LSU claims he is Stan, so the flavor to me would suggest that he's watching his own house. However, MoB claims to have roleblocked sniper who says that he is Kyle's mom, Sheila. This kinda makes sense since Kyle is Stan's best friend.

MoB says that he recognized the person. This could mean a lot of things, but it also makes sense that Liane would recognize a fellow mom in Sheila.

So far, everything seems to fit.

However, safari claims to have protected MoB, but LSU did not see anyone visit MoB. wtf?

I think LSU or safari needs to go. This discrepancy needs to be resolved..

[usAir]

My strongest suspicion is still skillfusniper. It seems like we barely addressed the fact that MoB blocked him last night, and there was no mafia kill.

i know that too, it's a good lead, but the thing is, there doesn't seem to be any flavor at all suggesting there was a kill attempt.

even then i think it would not hurt to pressure skillfusniper

and saf, i'm not saying you are scum, i'm just saying that someone is lying, and in my opinion, you're the most likely person to be lying. but maybe there's indeed a mafia watcher, which would really amaze me, especially if there's no town watcher or other town investigative role.

I agree with zimma, it may be good to pursue the skillfulsniper case, and we shouldn't ignore that MOB blocked him last night. We may just want to lynch him (or her, I guess) to get some more information.

However, something from last night doesn't hold up. From the flavor clues that Epitaph1 posted, and from the claimed night actions (which confirm that LSU is some sort of watcher) I can only come to the logical conclusion that safariguy is the one who is most likely lying. Even with a bus drive, LSU should have gotten some sort of result, and saf would have known that he was roleblocked. I also don't see why he pressured zimmah for an eye for an eye approach (which, at least to me, seems idiotic).

Vote: Safariguy, to increase the pressure on him, however, I may change my vote to skillfulsniper if there is a better explanation to the safariguy/MOB/LSU thing.

[skillfusniper33]

My strongest suspicion is still skillfusniper. It seems like we barely addressed the fact that MoB blocked him last night, and there was no mafia kill.

i know that too, it's a good lead, but the thing is, there doesn't seem to be any flavor at all suggesting there was a kill attempt.

even then i think it would not hurt to pressure skillfusniper

and saf, i'm not saying you are scum, i'm just saying that someone is lying, and in my opinion, you're the most likely person to be lying. but maybe there's indeed a mafia watcher, which would really amaze me, especially if there's no town watcher or other town investigative role.

I agree with zimma, it may be good to pursue the skillfulsniper case, and we shouldn't ignore that MOB blocked him last night. We may just want to lynch him (or her, I guess) to get some more information.

However, something from last night doesn't hold up. From the flavor clues that Epitaph1 posted, and from the claimed night actions (which confirm that LSU is some sort of watcher) I can only come to the logical conclusion that safariguy is the one who is most likely lying. Even with a bus drive, LSU should have gotten some sort of result, and saf would have known that he was roleblocked. I also don't see why he pressured zimmah for an eye for an eye approach (which, at least to me, seems idiotic).

Vote: Safariguy, to increase the pressure on him, however, I may change my vote to skillfulsniper if there is a better explanation to the safariguy/MOB/LSU thing.

Did you miss my entire explanation and claim, or are you just deciding to ignore it and treat it as if it doesn't exist?

[skillfusniper33]

And I do agree with you epi, that we may have caught safari in a lie, especially since I don't think we have a second role blocker, and a bus driver.

Vote Safari

[zimmah]

i'll wait for a votecount but i think i'll vote safari too. i allready explained my reasoning as is quoted above.

i highly doubt the only(?) investigative role is mafia aligned.

[drunkmonkey]

unvote

I'm not sure I buy that Sheila is a one-shot vig, especially after he didn't name-claim until after MoB revealed his night PM. But, that's a bit flavor-reliant, and there are too many other unanswered questions to lynch him just yet.

[sensfan]

unvote

I'm not sure I buy that Sheila is a one-shot vig, especially after he didn't name-claim until after MoB revealed his night PM. But, that's a bit flavor-reliant, and there are too many other unanswered questions to lynch him just yet.

unvote
Ditto.

It looks like we did indeed catch safariguy in a lie, 2 role-blockers + bus-driver is a bit much. Unless we have a mafia roleblocker/investigative role, vote safariguy5.

I AM NOT JUMPING ON THE BANDWAGON, people. It just seems like our best lead.

-sens

[spiesr]

I am Sheila Broflovski - Town One-Shot Vigilante. I haven't used the Vig yet.

Okay let's give this claim a sniff test here. I see that you guys have halfway moved on the other things since this claim, but I feel the analysis is still definitely worthwhile. Well, the character sort of fits with the flavor Mob got from the roleblock, but he claimed it after the flavor was disclosed and discussed to the point where it basically pointed out which names we thought could fit, at which point Skill drops ones of those names. At this point we still don't really know what logic was applied in assigning characters to be scum. Sheila seems to make as much sense as as scum as Stephen Stotch.
The role itself could be plausible. No obvious connection to the character, not every role we have seen so far has had obvious connections. Could very well be a fake-claim though. I mean if he is scum and we try to make him prove it he can probably just go out and kill someone no problem. While the scenes have provided some clues, they haven't really been giving solid ID to the killers, so he could possibly get by with that. As a fake-claim, it avoids the Vanilla townies issue of being disposable, while also not requiring claiming any actions that could be disproved.
Now, is One-Shot Vig a role that would make sense in this game, I don't know. With a 15 player game already having the scum kill, a CPR doc (therefor presumably not a normal doc as well), a PGO, and the JOAT with his own one-shot kill ability, it all seems a little killing heavy for the size. (If there is a Reviver that helps balance it some.) Not that you would know it, being that we are on Day 4 with a grand total of four people actually dead right now. In fact, now that I think about it, a CPR doc, once they player is aware of the nature of his powers, can basically act as a Vig anyway so having it in addition to a One-Shot Vig and the JOAT seems a little redundant.
So I guess my assessment is as follows. If the deadline were coming soon I would more or less be okay with Skillfusniper being the lynch, with the only significant reservation being the differences between the night 2 and 3 scenes. Since the deadline isn't bearing down on us at the moment, I think more discussion is preferable to pushing such a lynch through too quickly right now.
One possibility that could be interesting and worth thinking about is for us the direct Skill to use his kill tonight on a target that we decide. In the best case scenario, it acts as giving us another sort of lynch and gives Skill a chance to back up his claim. If he is actually scum, it at least puts him in a scenario we either he puts the scum kill where we want it rather than where it would most benefit the scum, or he risks losing credibility. Maybe worth a thought? Unless there is nobody we would want actually killed.

[safariguy5]

Well good job reviver, you got me back in the game just in time for me to be mislynched and die again it appears.

Seriously, why exactly are we buying the one-shot vig claim? Seems to be a very easy fakeclaim because you don't need to make up night actions. Honestly I expect some heads to roll tomorrow when you all decide to lynch me and I turn up town again.

But in the somewhat vain hope that you all return to your senses and realize that we should pressure someone with a pretty weak claim, I will vote skillfulsniper. Seriously, he's basically claiming part of what I have, the flavor does not make sense to me, and I don't see how this is balanced given the townies that have died already.

[zimmah]

Well good job reviver, you got me back in the game just in time for me to be mislynched and die again it appears.

Seriously, why exactly are we buying the one-shot vig claim? Seems to be a very easy fakeclaim because you don't need to make up night actions. Honestly I expect some heads to roll tomorrow when you all decide to lynch me and I turn up town again.

But in the somewhat vain hope that you all return to your senses and realize that we should pressure someone with a pretty weak claim, I will vote skillfulsniper. Seriously, he's basically claiming part of what I have, the flavor does not make sense to me, and I don't see how this is balanced given the townies that have died already.

if there is a reviver, and if that reviver does not have any harmfull side effects to town, let him claim now to prevent mislynching the same player twice. solves the problem, doesn't it?

[zimmah]

I am Sheila Broflovski - Town One-Shot Vigilante. I haven't used the Vig yet.

Okay let's give this claim a sniff test here. I see that you guys have halfway moved on the other things since this claim, but I feel the analysis is still definitely worthwhile. Well, the character sort of fits with the flavor Mob got from the roleblock, but he claimed it after the flavor was disclosed and discussed to the point where it basically pointed out which names we thought could fit, at which point Skill drops ones of those names. At this point we still don't really know what logic was applied in assigning characters to be scum. Sheila seems to make as much sense as as scum as Stephen Stotch.
The role itself could be plausible. No obvious connection to the character, not every role we have seen so far has had obvious connections. Could very well be a fake-claim though. I mean if he is scum and we try to make him prove it he can probably just go out and kill someone no problem. While the scenes have provided some clues, they haven't really been giving solid ID to the killers, so he could possibly get by with that. As a fake-claim, it avoids the Vanilla townies issue of being disposable, while also not requiring claiming any actions that could be disproved.
Now, is One-Shot Vig a role that would make sense in this game, I don't know. With a 15 player game already having the scum kill, a CPR doc (therefor presumably not a normal doc as well), a PGO, and the JOAT with his own one-shot kill ability, it all seems a little killing heavy for the size. (If there is a Reviver that helps balance it some.) Not that you would know it, being that we are on Day 4 with a grand total of four people actually dead right now. In fact, now that I think about it, a CPR doc, once they player is aware of the nature of his powers, can basically act as a Vig anyway so having it in addition to a One-Shot Vig and the JOAT seems a little redundant.
So I guess my assessment is as follows. If the deadline were coming soon I would more or less be okay with Skillfusniper being the lynch, with the only significant reservation being the differences between the night 2 and 3 scenes. Since the deadline isn't bearing down on us at the moment, I think more discussion is preferable to pushing such a lynch through too quickly right now.
One possibility that could be interesting and worth thinking about is for us the direct Skill to use his kill tonight on a target that we decide. In the best case scenario, it acts as giving us another sort of lynch and gives Skill a chance to back up his claim. If he is actually scum, it at least puts him in a scenario we either he puts the scum kill where we want it rather than where it would most benefit the scum, or he risks losing credibility. Maybe worth a thought? Unless there is nobody we would want actually killed.

but if you have the vig shoot a player while the CPR saves it, would that not make the player safe for that night, without risking the player getting killed by the CPR doc, given both players actually do target the same player without getting roleblocked?

or am i getting things wrong here?

[skillfusniper33]

Yes I am claiming part of what you have, but as spiesr pointed out, there seem to be a lot of possibilities of kills in each night, but no one is taking advantage of them since people seem to be unsure of who to target. I am wondering if they were put in because there isn't a SK in the game.

Not that this will help with anything against my case, but I don't know the characters in south park very well at all, and for me to pull off a very good fake-claim, I would have to end up researching for several hours, which I 1 don't have time for, and 2 I won't put that much time into a simple fake claim.

And if you want me to prove my 1 shot ability then let me know who you want me to target tonight, I know it doesn't prove that I am town, but that I have a kill ability, and the flavor should be able to check out in the scene.

Fastposted

[skillfusniper33]

You do bring up a good point zimmah, we could have the CPR doc protect whoever we want me to kill, and it should counteract the kill, and in turn waste my ability, but it should prove who I am

[zimmah]

You do bring up a good point zimmah, we could have the CPR doc protect whoever we want me to kill, and it should counteract the kill, and in turn waste my ability, but it should prove who I am

even if your ability is wasted, as long as we have the CPR doc, we can use him/her as vig. they could ofc. prevent the doc from killing by shooting at themselves, but that would be highly dangerous and also prevent them from killing townies, so, i think we won't even get harmed by you losing your 1-shot ability, i think the information we gain by that move far outweighs the costs.

[drunkmonkey]

but if you have the vig shoot a player while the CPR saves it, would that not make the player safe for that night, without risking the player getting killed by the CPR doc, given both players actually do target the same player without getting roleblocked?

or am i getting things wrong here?

There's too much going on in this small statement. You want to direct the vig & CPR doc to protect the same person tonight. Here's how this can play out:

1) skillfu is telling the truth, and he burns his one shot vig. He's now just another VT.
2) skillfu is lying, and the target dies. Actually, in this scenario, skillfu targets another player, and we have 2 extra deaths at night.
3) Either skillfu or the CPR doc ignores your directions, or one of them is roleblocked, or redirected in some other way - the target dies, skillfu loses his ability, and we gain no new information.

I don't see any scenario where we try to direct these two players, and it ends up helpful for town.

[spiesr]

One possibility that could be interesting and worth thinking about is for us the direct Skill to use his kill tonight on a target that we decide. In the best case scenario, it acts as giving us another sort of lynch and gives Skill a chance to back up his claim. If he is actually scum, it at least puts him in a scenario we either he puts the scum kill where we want it rather than where it would most benefit the scum, or he risks losing credibility. Maybe worth a thought? Unless there is nobody we would want actually killed.

but if you have the vig shoot a player while the CPR saves it, would that not make the player safe for that night, without risking the player getting killed by the CPR doc, given both players actually do target the same player without getting roleblocked?

or am i getting things wrong here?

The idea I posed was not to have the CPR doc and Skill target the same person, but rather for Skill to target a person that we actually want to die. Having the CPR doc also target that person would put an interesting spin on it, but it seems like it would make it too easy for something to go wrong in that more complex plan.

[blakebowling]

Vote Count
skillfusniper33 (2) - ???, safariguy5
safariguy5 (3) - usAir, skillfusniper33, sensfan

With 11 alive, 6 votes are required to lynch.
drake_259 and Epitaph1 have been prodded.

[zimmah]

but if you have the vig shoot a player while the CPR saves it, would that not make the player safe for that night, without risking the player getting killed by the CPR doc, given both players actually do target the same player without getting roleblocked?

or am i getting things wrong here?

There's too much going on in this small statement. You want to direct the vig & CPR doc to protect the same person tonight. Here's how this can play out:

1) skillfu is telling the truth, and he burns his one shot vig. He's now just another VT.
2) skillfu is lying, and the target dies. Actually, in this scenario, skillfu targets another player, and we have 2 extra deaths at night.
3) Either skillfu or the CPR doc ignores your directions, or one of them is roleblocked, or redirected in some other way - the target dies, skillfu loses his ability, and we gain no new information.

I don't see any scenario where we try to direct these two players, and it ends up helpful for town.

1) nothing to add
2) then at least we know 1 mafia, and since the target player is a target picked by majority, there's a good chance it's scum, or at least not a mafia target. so there's a chance of trading 1 townie for 2 scum, right?
3) that would be a problem, but we do have a tracker/watcher or something right, would that not give information?

also, i don't like how everyone is telling everyone else how wrong they are, but never does anyone come up with idea's or leads.

how are we supposed to move on in this game like this?

[spiesr]

3) Either skillfu or the CPR doc ignores your directions, or one of them is roleblocked, or redirected in some other way - the target dies, skillfu loses his ability, and we gain no new information.

3) that would be a problem, but we do have a tracker/watcher or something right, would that not give information?

Well, if the the watcher (LSU) watchess the target then he finds out who targeted him like they were supposed to. But if Skill doesn't show up as having targeted the target he doesn't know if it is because Skill chose to ignore orders or was blocked. If he watches Skill, then he can find out if anyone else targets Skill (like a roleblocker) but not what exactly that person was doing there or if Skill actually did what he was supposed to do. We don't have a tracker that we know of. If LSU watches either the target or Skill, then he won't be able to watch anyone else and possibly catch the scum killing someone. Also, if we are relying LSU to provide information to make this scenario work, then he becomes a big target for the scum to kill off that night. At the moment we don't appear to have anything that can prevent this.

also, i don't like how everyone is telling everyone else how wrong they are, but never does anyone come up with idea's or leads.
how are we supposed to move on in this game like this?

Personally I think that today's discussion has been going pretty well so far. We have a couple of interesting cases going on, and most of us have been fairly good about debating the merits of each of them. Seeing where everyone stands on these should prove useful when tomorrow comes around. Activity has been decent for most part today, just need to get a couple of slackers pulled back in. While most posts are reactionary this is fairly normal, and I think new ideas and leads have been coming out at an acceptable level so far today. Hopefully once the prodded show back up they will be able to offer a new idea of their own...

[drunkmonkey]

but if you have the vig shoot a player while the CPR saves it, would that not make the player safe for that night, without risking the player getting killed by the CPR doc, given both players actually do target the same player without getting roleblocked?

or am i getting things wrong here?

There's too much going on in this small statement. You want to direct the vig & CPR doc to protect the same person tonight. Here's how this can play out:

1) skillfu is telling the truth, and he burns his one shot vig. He's now just another VT.
2) skillfu is lying, and the target dies. Actually, in this scenario, skillfu targets another player, and we have 2 extra deaths at night.
3) Either skillfu or the CPR doc ignores your directions, or one of them is roleblocked, or redirected in some other way - the target dies, skillfu loses his ability, and we gain no new information.

I don't see any scenario where we try to direct these two players, and it ends up helpful for town.

1) nothing to add
2) then at least we know 1 mafia, and since the target player is a target picked by majority, there's a good chance it's scum, or at least not a mafia target. so there's a chance of trading 1 townie for 2 scum, right?
3) that would be a problem, but we do have a tracker/watcher or something right, would that not give information?

also, i don't like how everyone is telling everyone else how wrong they are, but never does anyone come up with idea's or leads.

how are we supposed to move on in this game like this?

Well, in my opinion, if we get to the point where we're willing to make him a VT to test his claim, I'd rather test it by lynching him than risk a disaster with #2 or #3.