Once Upon A Killer Mafia (14/17) A Writers Block:Endgame

[Whatsausage]

Well that escalated quickly. Making sure I have it straight here...
1. Ultra is pressured until he softclaims to be more than a vote
2. Ultra finally comes out and claims lover/mason
3. Zivel claims to be in a different lover pair where both are confirmed town
4. Dd comes out in yet another lover pair, thinks ultra scummy and zivel towny
5. Dd makes a "list post" in which he doesn't realize that crazymilkshake has been replaced (also ponders if all lovers are town)
6. Zivel doesn't think dd should've claimed
7. Streaker isn't sure what to think. Says first it is bad town for dd to claim, but then again maybe not
8. Zivel confirms that he started the game as a non-vanilla lover (as well as his partner), also regretful for calling out dd
9. Zivel repeats that they are confirmed town and believes that other pairs would have same guarantee
10. Virus is ultra's lover. Also claims that mod confirmed both to be town
11. Virus again says that mod confirmed both to be town, this time says it occurred in QT
12. After strike poses options, virus doesn't think both die at a time
(Do I have that all correct?)

So that gives us (if all are telling the truth)
1. ultra and virus as confirmed town to each other
2. zivel and player X as confirmed town to each other
3. dd and player Y have not yet said to be confirmed town to each other

I agree with strike. There is still too much left unknown to leave the claimed lovers totally and begin a different direction.
A few questions:
1. @ultra- You claimed to be a mason along with a lover. That is like a double scum safeclaim. (Assuming I understand mason correctly, where they can talk with other masons at night and return scum when investigated) Virus claiming to be your partner does give a little credibility because I do doubt there would be a scum lover pair. (but there could be for balance, to even out with two town lover pairs) Could you explain your mason role? Because you should already be able to talk to virus, do you recruit people into another chat or is virus your mason partner?

2. @dd- Did you get this same mod confirmation for you and your partner being both town aligned?

3. @everyone- Do we want to assume there are only the three pairs, or should we ask all to come forward now or never? It seems at this point, the further it goes along the easier it would be for a scum to come forward as another lover when questioned and be able to say all the things that the exposed lovers have said.

4. @all lovers- Do you know if you die together or not? Or would you just assume because of what the role is?

and dont you think thats a bit to easy for mafia? lets assume that there are 3 lovers. and 1 of them is mafia. 2 kills --> 4 town deaths for that reason a mislynch on one out of 6 lovers -> 2 deaths.
6/17 (or more) are lovers. this game would go south pretty quickly then.

This logic is why I tend to believe one of the lover pairs (or even just one lover) could be scum. To balance it a little bit without really compromising the common perception of the role (that they die together). Wouldn't it be terribly OP for all 6 (or more) lovers to be town, know that the other is town for sure, not die together, and have an additional PR?
I really doubt that all of these are the case unless the scum faction is quite large (5-6) and has multiple KP.

[StorrZerg]

Ultra and virus gave not fully claimed. Pretty sure someone claimed lover with another power.


I'm in favor of a full claim from them

[Whatsausage]

So because I chose not to discuss the merits of voting no-lynch (a discussion that wasn't really benefitting town), I was deflecting attention? You can't have it both ways. I brought up a new read instead of repeating like everyone else that I thought no-lynching was bad D1 because such and such a statistic. I hadn't really covered ultra's no lynch vote (besides saying it didn't mean on its own that he's scum) because instead of beating that discussion into the ground I chose to go a different direction. Not sure how my response look forced, but perhaps my opinion is biased because I know it wasn't forced means I am blind to how it looks to you. My scum read on him has grown since then (although still not strong), back then I was more neutral. AOG having a town read on him wasn't bad in and of itself, his reasoning for it was.

Yes. The discussion wasn't a liability to the town at the point of origin, the useless part was that it was dragged out for such a long time. I'm not having it both ways. You didn't waste a single syllable on the main discussion of that day and you think that's pro-town? You could have bothered to mention your opinion on the subject, as that is the point of a discussion.

No, I didn't flat out state my opinion that no lynch on Day 1 is generally bad. I chose not to contribute to a discussion that didn't really add to the game and I do feel that is pro-town. So while it was a discussion, I didn't believe it was a beneficial discussion (it really belonged in a mafia strategy/meta forum). While the discussion wasn't a "liability to town" I chose not to add to the "useless part."

Someone should be able to parse my claim and realize what I mean. (I traditionally play with outside communication so that was an example of something I would've done under those circumstances, PMing my role to only the most trusted)

Regardless, someone follow this thought path:

• Assume I am town.
• Figure out why I would post that assuming I am town.

I think you will realize why...

(As for assuming I am town, it is for this thought process only.)

It implies Town Mason to me. Irrelevant role that can be faked by mafia. If it's something else, please claim fully, this mystery is not helping your cause. Why are you so vague, do you think it helps, or does it only stall?

Good call on the mason, and I agree with you asking why he was vague like that. I don't see how that helps anyone, because the scum are just as capable of figuring out what he meant as town are, so it's not like he was hiding it from them. Really just stalling the inevitable (that someone will figure it out and call out his claim for him or he will have to full claim.)

Fp'd by storr
Well ultra said he was a mason, I don't know if he meant that was in addition to lover or if that's just how he interpreted his lover role. I asked about it in my question 1 above

Which leads me to another question for the lovers.
Are you told your partner's power or did they have to tell you themselves?

[virus90]

@ whatsausage, well he can but i can aswell. i actually already did. see your own point 11.

11. Virus again says that mod confirmed both to be town, this time says it occurred in QT
12. After strike poses options, virus doesn't think both die at a time
(Do I have that all correct?)

and to answer 12 yes your summary was correct.

i can also explain why he partially claimed, that was because in our QT i asked ultra, before you go down try to link something to me, something that i can prove i was a duo with you in case you get lynched. It was not my intention that he did it like this, thats not how indept we discussed it, and if we had discussed i would have advised him to do it otherwise cause lol even i thought it was scummy / not very handy. so i asked a vague note somwhere but not as obvious as it turned out, and not effect immediatly but well that ship has sailed with the press of the submit button.

To answer another question of Whatsausage
we are masoned lovers, with a QT. i assumed the other lovers have it aswell as i thought someone said something about them both having power roles -> hence they are either mafia or have a QT themselfs.

Yup 100%. Even mod confirmed. Started the game as a lover with my role pm. Not a vanilla lover though. My partner and I both have abilities as well.

[dd515087]

Well that escalated quickly. Making sure I have it straight here...
1. Ultra is pressured until he softclaims to be more than a vote
2. Ultra finally comes out and claims lover/mason
3. Zivel claims to be in a different lover pair where both are confirmed town
4. Dd comes out in yet another lover pair, thinks ultra scummy and zivel towny
5. Dd makes a "list post" in which he doesn't realize that crazymilkshake has been replaced (also ponders if all lovers are town)
6. Zivel doesn't think dd should've claimed
7. Streaker isn't sure what to think. Says first it is bad town for dd to claim, but then again maybe not
8. Zivel confirms that he started the game as a non-vanilla lover (as well as his partner), also regretful for calling out dd
9. Zivel repeats that they are confirmed town and believes that other pairs would have same guarantee
10. Virus is ultra's lover. Also claims that mod confirmed both to be town
11. Virus again says that mod confirmed both to be town, this time says it occurred in QT
12. After strike poses options, virus doesn't think both die at a time
(Do I have that all correct?)
Yeah basically. I felt it necessary to claim because it was just the weirdest thing. I was ready to blow up Ultra with a counter claim, but Ziv had beat me to the punch and I just didn't know what to do.

So that gives us (if all are telling the truth)
1. ultra and virus as confirmed town to each other
2. zivel and player X as confirmed town to each other
3. dd and player Y have not yet said to be confirmed town to each other

I agree with strike. There is still too much left unknown to leave the claimed lovers totally and begin a different direction.
A few questions:
1. @ultra- You claimed to be a mason along with a lover. That is like a double scum safeclaim. (Assuming I understand mason correctly, where they can talk with other masons at night and return scum when investigated) Virus claiming to be your partner does give a little credibility because I do doubt there would be a scum lover pair. (but there could be for balance, to even out with two town lover pairs) Could you explain your mason role? Because you should already be able to talk to virus, do you recruit people into another chat or is virus your mason partner?

I believe he just meant he is in a QT with his partner. I am, I am only allowed to talk to my lover at night though

2. @dd- Did you get this same mod confirmation for you and your partner being both town aligned?

No. I also did not ask, however I'm town and I read my partner as town as well

3. @everyone- Do we want to assume there are only the three pairs, or should we ask all to come forward now or never? It seems at this point, the further it goes along the easier it would be for a scum to come forward as another lover when questioned and be able to say all the things that the exposed lovers have said.

I don't know. It's probably a good idea

4. @all lovers- Do you know if you die together or not? Or would you just assume because of what the role is?

I assumed because I was told lover in my Role PM, I do not know for sure, but I am leaning against it based on 3 lover pairs

and dont you think thats a bit to easy for mafia? lets assume that there are 3 lovers. and 1 of them is mafia. 2 kills --> 4 town deaths for that reason a mislynch on one out of 6 lovers -> 2 deaths.
6/17 (or more) are lovers. this game would go south pretty quickly then.

This logic is why I tend to believe one of the lover pairs (or even just one lover) could be scum. To balance it a little bit without really compromising the common perception of the role (that they die together). Wouldn't it be terribly OP for all 6 (or more) lovers to be town, know that the other is town for sure, not die together, and have an additional PR?
I really doubt that all of these are the case unless the scum faction is quite large (5-6) and has multiple KP.

[strike wolf]

Would like to hear from more people. I know more than the 7 or so who have been commenting on this have been online and this is easily the most important conversation going on to date.

Will respond to DD's post later.

[mtamburini]

I skimmed through most of the posts since i left didnt re read, but it looks like there are 3 sets of lovers now being claimed?

Assuming all 6 are town then i think were all in for a huge troll fest.

Question for ultra, now that youvve claimed what was the benefit of you pushing a NL if your just a lover mason?

[dd515087]

Those that have claimed lover, are you certain you are lovers? If so please explain in simple terms "lover" and any questions asked about it recently. (Well we can still have ultra first that's fine)

But zivel did you start as lover? Are you certain the role is lover?

Lover means that if one of us dies the other dies. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the other lover will normally "commit suicide" the next night

Yup 100%. Even mod confirmed. Started the game as a lover with my role pm. Not a vanilla lover though. My partner and I both have abilities as well.

I have an ability as well

Which leads me to another question for the lovers.
Are you told your partner's power or did they have to tell you themselves?

I was told that I can only talk to my partner at night, I was not told my partner's power when I got my role

Well that is convenient. Now my top 2 scum are lovers? Great!

Who's up for a little experiment? Let's lynch Ultra and find out if Virus (named scum by many) dies with him.

It would be weird if they were both scum and lovers, but they were my top two scum reads at the time. What's possible is that Ultra claimed lover and then Ziv and I came in and made our claims. Note: we did not want our partners to come in and claim. Then virus came in to supposedly give more credit to Ultra. Suspicious.

[strike wolf]

So virus doesnt believe he dies with his lover. DD seems confident he does. Virus says hes been talking to his lover today, DD says they can only communicate at night. DD says he has another ability. Virus dodged the question. Did I miss anything?

[dd515087]

I am not completely confident that I do. That is the normal lover description, but it would make this game very difficult for the town if that is the case. And yes I specifically asked the mod if I could talk during the day in my QT and he said night only

[StorrZerg]

Are you "masons"

3 lovers
1 pair might not die together, that same pair hasn't admitted to extra powers.


With how zivel claimed, he and his partner I'd day would be town.

Virus saying ultra was scummy is odd. His initial town read makes sense. I need to reread virus comments on ultra

[UltrasPlot]

Virus is my lover, and he is confirmed town. (Personally I think he played terribly bc this just makes it more scummy...) Nevertheless, no need in hiding anything now...

I hope this clears up things.

[StorrZerg]

What's your other power ? Ultra

[UltrasPlot]

Also I'm pretty much vanilla EXCEPT that Virus can save me the first time I die. (I think.) So here's another option:

1. Lynch me
2. Virus saves me (confirming me town)
3. Lynch dd for being the scummiest imo

MOD, please affirm in PM this is how it works

[UltrasPlot]

btw if virus saves me virus dies

[UltrasPlot]

(Just a note, he didn't tell me his other power til very recently so the ultra lynch is definitely a viable option since it confirms 1 townie)

[aage]

Three lover pair madness has ensued. Great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0kp-FjpdGA

First off, let me say that it would make abolutely no sense game-wise to make all lover pairs town, so this is definitely a big lead.

also FoS Virus, feel like he's trying to set me up for something =/

Ultra, please explain this post. He's supposed to be your lover, why are you making a random accusation?


So based off the info we got from Zivel, Dd and Virus, there is a clear difference between the lover connection Zivel and Dd claim to have (not with each other tho) and the lover connection Virus and Ultra claim to have. Since Zivel and Dd claim to be paired with yet more lovers, I'm inclined to go with the least amount of potential liars, i.e. Virus and Ultra.

It means Ultra is not only the most scummy candidate but also the safest lynch, since apparently Virus won't die if Ultra is lynched. We can always just lynch Virus tomorrow if he somehow survives when Ultra flips scum, which by now I'm quite sure he will.

Unless Virus and/or Zivel claims a 'primary' power in addition to being lover, they are the prime candidates for today's lynch. If they turn up town, Zivel AND Dd must be lying, but I doubt they are. Trading a lover pair for outing two mafia on day 1 is just silly.


FP by Ultra and Storr
Virus can save you from a lynch and you have no powers?
Fine, we'll lynch Virus. Not really interested in seeing a potential scum get unlynched if that proves nothing about your alignment. Because it doesn't.
Unvote, vote virus

[UltrasPlot]

4 posts in a row ftw... I need to read!

Whatsausage, I am only able to talk with Virus. I believe I am only tied with him.

[UltrasPlot]

AAGE. Rather lynch me than Virus, since virus lynch results in us both dying and Ultra lynch results in me surviving and confirmed town since virus will flip... ffs

[aage]

Also, and I will Pm the mod about this too, I will not be home for the rest of the week. I don't know if I'll have internet, so you can expect no more posts from me until the 9th/10th.

FP by Ultra again
Yes, I would hope so.

[UltrasPlot]

(Also, we decided to call each other scummy to avoid having to claim Lovers...)

He essentially forced me because it looked like scum supporting scum.

which would force us to claim

which would be bad...

aage your vote is still on virus

[Whatsausage]

@ whatsausage, well he can but i can aswell. i actually already did. see your own point 11.

11. Virus again says that mod confirmed both to be town, this time says it occurred in QT
12. After strike poses options, virus doesn't think both die at a time
(Do I have that all correct?)

and to answer 12 yes your summary was correct.

i can also explain why he partially claimed, that was because in our QT i asked ultra, before you go down try to link something to me, something that i can prove i was a duo with you in case you get lynched. It was not my intention that he did it like this, thats not how indept we discussed it, and if we had discussed i would have advised him to do it otherwise cause lol even i thought it was scummy / not very handy. so i asked a vague note somwhere but not as obvious as it turned out, and not effect immediatly but well that ship has sailed with the press of the submit button.

To answer another question of Whatsausage
we are masoned lovers, with a QT. i assumed the other lovers have it aswell as i thought someone said something about them both having power roles -> hence they are either mafia or have a QT themselfs.

Yup 100%. Even mod confirmed. Started the game as a lover with my role pm. Not a vanilla lover though. My partner and I both have abilities as well.

So for your first part, I am not totally sure what you are trying to answer, I can only assume from the wording that you are referring to the question I directed at ultra. But you answer that question later... So you two have been talking all day, but apparently not as much as you'd like.

The way I have come to understand it is that the power that ultra and virus have is that they are masons and able to talk during the day, whereas the others can only talk at night and have a different extra power. I was content with this belief until I reread your last part zivel (in red) That is a very quick jump to them being scum with your other possibility not really lining up with what you've been saying so far about your won powers

Fp'd a lot my goodness

[strike wolf]

Why lynch Virus? Seems targeting Ultra would make more sense. Also considering that all involved have said that their lover is confirmed town,Virus flipping town would confirm Ultra.

[UltrasPlot]

Unvote dd
Lynch Ultra
Best course of action.

Of course, this is assuming we have a bg to keep me alive til tomorrow.

[UltrasPlot]

(Mafia is probably trying for the virus lynch to avoid the shenanigans of a confirmed town)

We lynch dd tomorrow for having differing opinions of two different lover pair ccs, lol