Balance Not Included Mafia 3/12 End Game: Balance. Town Wins

[StorrZerg]

I'm not you mets. Again if you bothered to re look at the breaking bad game and the other, it's very clear we have different perspective on how to play this game. I disregard in general flavor and theme. I scum hunt. Which you 100% consider luck or not a real skill.

I'm putting up this god like defense because I'm town. I'm not going to be that town that didn't fight hard enough to not be lynched.


I've presented reasonable ways for people to verify my role. It's most likely not lylo, what do you lose in letting me try to prove myself tonight.

You are either so mafia that you want this lynch to happen so you don't have to read others today, or you are so hung up with how drastically different I play that your policy dictates that you have to tunnel and lynch me. Either way you are playing terrible. Refusing to see reason, refusing to even consider another lynch.

Mafia mets makes sense, you didn't actually push scum day 1. You wagon on virus over policy. And you are policy lynching me now. You only started going hard on me cause everyone else was. Baahhhhhh bahhhhh

[Metsfanmax]

I scum hunt. Which you 100% consider luck or not a real skill.

If that's all you're about, then you failed miserably on D1, so why should I care about your opinion?

I'm putting up this god like defense because I'm town. I'm not going to be that town that didn't fight hard enough to not be lynched.

Why? If you're town, then you know the game is about town winning. Not about you staying alive.

I've presented reasonable ways for people to verify my role. It's most likely not lylo, what do you lose in letting me try to prove myself tonight.

You actually haven't presented a single way for anyone to verify your role. All you have discussed is what would happen if you were watching someone who died. If your information never shows up in the scene, then you can just say that you were watching someone else. The only thing we could hope to try is to tell you exactly who to watch every night, and then hope (?) that this person gets NK'ed by the mafia so that we can pick one out. Which obviously would not work because then mafia would just NK someone else to avoid getting found out.

You are either so mafia that you want this lynch to happen so you don't have to read others today, or you are so hung up with how drastically different I play that your policy dictates that you have to tunnel and lynch me. Either way you are playing terrible. Refusing to see reason, refusing to even consider another lynch.

Really now? I was the one at the start of this day saying that we need to take this slow, and consider everything. I was hoping that we'd have discussion about these other things. I'm the one who has refused to actually vote so far, to ensure that we have enough time to talk about others. And yet you're saying that I'm the one refusing to consider another lynch. This game has some of the worst argumentation I've seen in a long time in mafia.

[StorrZerg]

I scum hunt. Which you 100% consider luck or not a real skill.

If that's all you're about, then you failed miserably on D1, so why should I care about your opinion?
did I fail to keep the pressure on virus. Yes. Did I sniff him out, set him on his heals, force him to claim. Yes. Relentless pressure for 5 days.

I'm putting up this god like defense because I'm town. I'm not going to be that town that didn't fight hard enough to not be lynched.

Why? If you're town, then you know the game is about town winning. Not about you staying alive.
my win con is to eliminate all threats to town. Letting myself be lynched is against my win con.

I've presented reasonable ways for people to verify my role. It's most likely not lylo, what do you lose in letting me try to prove myself tonight.

You actually haven't presented a single way for anyone to verify your role. All you have discussed is what would happen if you were watching someone who died. If your information never shows up in the scene, then you can just say that you were watching someone else. The only thing we could hope to try is to tell you exactly who to watch every night, and then hope (?) that this person gets NK'ed by the mafia so that we can pick one out. Which obviously would not work because then mafia would just NK someone else to avoid getting found out.

You are either so mafia that you want this lynch to happen so you don't have to read others today, or you are so hung up with how drastically different I play that your policy dictates that you have to tunnel and lynch me. Either way you are playing terrible. Refusing to see reason, refusing to even consider another lynch.

Really now? I was the one at the start of this day saying that we need to take this slow, and consider everything. I was hoping that we'd have discussion about these other things. I'm the one who has refused to actually vote so far, to ensure that we have enough time to talk about others. And yet you're saying that I'm the one refusing to consider another lynch. This game has some of the worst argumentation I've seen in a long time in mafia.

I'll respond to the other quotes latter

[StorrZerg]

Hell, I understand metz I might be lynched hence I'm trying to give reads on everyone. Though that's probably a waste of my time considering a dead townie reads will probably be thrown out. (Case and point mtamburini reads are not even being considered)

[strike wolf]

Real quick as I dont have much time right now. Storr has not broken the rules, a description of how ones role works real or fake, is not against the rules. Furthermore when J give a unique fake claim to a player I would include a brief description of how the role woulf work so having a description has no bearing on whether the role is fake or real. Thus Storr did not break any rules.

Furthermore, flavor is going to pretty much be just that flavor.

[StorrZerg]

WRECKED METS AND IRON

[Streaker]

I honestly don't know what to make of the fighting between mets and Storr. My gut tells me you guys are beginning to lose perspective here.

Storr, honestly, if you play the game like this then you simply invite this kind of attention. Though you did get the job done on D1. EVERYONE SAYING STORR WAS NOT THE MAIN INSTIGATOR FOR D1 MAFFIA LYNCH NEEDS TO REREAD, NOW.

Mets, I can see and understand a lot (though not all) of your argumentation you bring up. I also have the feeling that this is mostly due the the way Storr plays so agresso. Do you honestly believe Storr would go hunting on D1 like that on his scummate?

Now, in my mind I don't exclude that play, so Storr could very well still be mafia. I will not vote for him now because I give him credit for his D1 hunt.

I will now present an alternative for D2 lynch SINCE NOBODY ELSE IS BOTHERING LOOKING ANYWERE ELSE.

Good, now that I have your attention:

A couple of questions Storr.

You targetted yourself N1, does that mean if you die on any night information on the killer will show up in the day post? Or is it one night only you have to target the soon to be deceased on the same night as there death?
Also, do you have any idea what information you would receive?

This is clearly, if ever, fishing. If I was mafia, I would want to know exactly this. Storr also already noticed this on his next post. ''Can we kill you this night, Storr, without giving information to town?'' ''Or do we go for someone else''?

To this I will raise with:

Storr, you're at L-2, it's very unlikely people are going to unvote, until you claim. Also Storr, I disagree with you claiming town creds because tambo thought you were town because he had a "town mindset", that doesn't mean he's infallible and also that Newbie Mafia, there were lots of players there with town mindsets, and yet the mafia weren't lynched. Also, the I'd never kill Tambo, doesn't do anything for me, it sounds like the kind of thing I hear when I play mafia with my mates and the lynch is based on weak cases and it's all a laugh and a joke.

In reference to me putting Storr @ L-1

you just don't jump in and put someone at L1 before they claim. That has been CC mafia protocol forever.

L-2/L-1 are very similar IB at this stage of the game we're not at LYLO, if someone had speed-hammered Storr after his claim - then we would have an easy D3 suspect.

So, if L1 and L-2 are basicly the same, then why take the chance for a quick lynch to happen? If someone hammered there, an entire day would be wasted whatever Storr would flip. Even if he would flip mafia it denies town an entire day of discussions.

Do I honestly believe you[Storr] were protecting virus? At the end of D1, yes. If you want me to give some reads Storr, you're probably gonna be disappointed but I like to keep everyone close or on neutral, unless they do extreme things (as that way I can try to keep an open mind)

So I currently see pcm & mets, as leaning slightly town, that D1 argument smelt town on town but it could verily easily not have been. And everyone else I'm keeping at neutral.

You see mets as town, despite the fact he put up the strongest defence of our mafia lynch. I'm not saying I have mets specifically mafia read, I'm saying it's odd putting him as town.

Now jonty, I would very much like to hear a reason for your fishing that much detail about Storr's power.
I'd also like to add that I am sure Storr did not use his power on himself, explanation of this will follow when I get a mail back from our mod. I asked him a few things to confirm before I can say more.

[StorrZerg]

Also make note, IRON said he was going to look someplace besides me, BUT found evidence in the day post to suggest sk. now that this has been proven false, he needs to back up his claim imo of looking some place else.

I was about to write a post to support your Town Role and focus on jonty when I re read the night scene and Hotshots death registered.

[StorrZerg]

##unvote
##Vote Jonty125

I've presented my case on him as well.

[StorrZerg]

Continued discussion from mets

You actually haven't presented a single way for anyone to verify your role. All you have discussed is what would happen if you were watching someone who died. If your information never shows up in the scene, then you can just say that you were watching someone else. The only thing we could hope to try is to tell you exactly who to watch every night, and then hope (?) that this person gets NK'ed by the mafia so that we can pick one out. Which obviously would not work because then mafia would just NK someone else to avoid getting found out.

I have presented SEVERAL ways. Some cannot be 100% confirmed. But will give more than enough reason that i am not the killer. I'm open to suggestions on who you think is most town (something you haven't done yet) thus might die. Just because 2 of my theories involve watcher or tracker which is not unreasonable in this game considering every town has a power role. And honestly if i did get it right and pick the right townie, i would be 100% confirmed. WHy? cause this role absolutely makes no sense in a mafia. Hell, tracker watching me would help a ton. 1 if mafia role block me to f*ck with me, then i don't go anywhere. And if kill or kills happen, then im most certainly not the one who issued the kills. Which doesn't confirm my alignment sure, but it does heavily point in a town alignment for me. If the tracker sees me go to someone who died, my power will go off and it will confirm me. I wouldn't be opposed to being told who to protect.

Another thing, TAMBO ROLE BLOCKED SOMEONE. no one is claiming it. THERE is a strong chance that who ever got role blocked is TOWN. i have no idea why no one is commenting on people being role blocked.

Really now? I was the one at the start of this day saying that we need to take this slow, and consider everything. I was hoping that we'd have discussion about these other things. I'm the one who has refused to actually vote so far, to ensure that we have enough time to talk about others. And yet you're saying that I'm the one refusing to consider another lynch. This game has some of the worst argumentation I've seen in a long time in mafia.

By consider everything, you mean just focus on Storr. Not actually consider anyone else to be mafia on day 2. I'm just trying to make sure we are on the same page. I really don't care if you haven't voted me. You not doing anything else productive isn't helping. You are not even considering another possible mafia at this point, when there has to clearly be another mafia. Either 2 mafia factions, or 2 mafia alive + sk or maybe just 2 mafia. You not voting to pressure anyone else in the game, is saying you don't care about looking for anyone else today. Because most people are content to leave their vote on me, and or just vote me when they "get tired, day runs out" So yes, i stand by the statement that you are not doing anything to look at anyone else today.

[Metsfanmax]

WRECKED METS AND IRON

...strike's point proved exactly what was I was talking about. We have zero proof that your role is actually what you say it is. In fact, the comment about mafia fake claims is even more damning to your point because now it says you might have been confirming how your fake claim works rather than your actual role.

And honestly if i did get it right and pick the right townie, i would be 100% confirmed

Sure, but the odds are small, it doesn't make sense to leave you alive on this off-chance if I already think you are most likely scum.

[Metsfanmax]

Sorry, pushed submit before I got the rest of my thoughts in.

Another thing, TAMBO ROLE BLOCKED SOMEONE. no one is claiming it. THERE is a strong chance that who ever got role blocked is TOWN. i have no idea why no one is commenting on people being role blocked.

If I were town and got roleblocked, I wouldn't necessarily confirm it. Not sure what there is to learn by the fact that no one admitted they got blocked.

You are not even considering another possible mafia at this point, when there has to clearly be another mafia

You are the only person who believes this, I'm pretty sure. There's zero evidence for it. Let's move on.

Streaker: your case on jonty isn't fully convincing. For example,

This is clearly, if ever, fishing.

I would want to know the same thing. If it were true, we could lynch storr with less risk, for example. Also, Storr has been giving away plenty of information on his own this day.

[StorrZerg]

WRECKED METS AND IRON

...strike's point proved exactly what was I was talking about. We have zero proof that your role is actually what you say it is. In fact, the comment about mafia fake claims is even more damning to your point because now it says you might have been confirming how your fake claim works rather than your actual role.

And honestly if i did get it right and pick the right townie, i would be 100% confirmed

Sure, but the odds are small, it doesn't make sense to leave you alive on this off-chance if I already think you are most likely scum.

No the post proves that i wasn't doing anything wrong. You stated i should be mod killed for bringing up what i did. I do not have a fake claim, striker had to say what he did exactly the way he did it to give no hint as to my alignment. If he leaves out the mafia section, that could be interpreted as a mod hinting i'm town, most likely on accident. The fact that you are trying to bring some illusion that what striker said has any affiliation to my alignment is pretty bogus. It clearly does not state "i might have been confirming how my fake claim works" You are putting words in the mods mouth with that kind of statement. A mod has to keep the information unbiased, to say that he is leaning one way on how he gave the information regarding my alignment is a bad argument. Hell most of this information that strike has given isn't anything new, its very common information if you remembered from Breaking bad. (mafia having fake claims, striker not giving hints or clues in flavor of the game)


Also another note, Streaker says he is sure i didn't watch myself. Are you the least bit curious to that statement? Why are you not questioning him more on it. Wouldn't evidence of me not being on myself be damning?


What do you think of Iron butterfly who said he was going to defend my claim , and push on jonty. "but then found flavor related information that means nothing" and decided to go back to pushing me.

[StorrZerg]

Sorry, pushed submit before I got the rest of my thoughts in.

Another thing, TAMBO ROLE BLOCKED SOMEONE. no one is claiming it. THERE is a strong chance that who ever got role blocked is TOWN. i have no idea why no one is commenting on people being role blocked.

If I were town and got roleblocked, I wouldn't necessarily confirm it. Not sure what there is to learn by the fact that no one admitted they got blocked.
Everyone has a role. So in my view its not bad. If we had VT's in the game, sure it's bad cause you confirm you have a role. This isn't the case, so its information. 2 kills happened in the night. If 2 people claimed to be role blocked, and someone has evidence other wise we could trap someone.

You are not even considering another possible mafia at this point, when there has to clearly be another mafia

You are the only person who believes this, I'm pretty sure. There's zero evidence for it. Let's move on.
Please present a case on someone else that isn't me. I eagerly await to hear it. If you all ready presented a reasonable case, just say who it was on and i will re look at it.
Streaker: your case on jonty isn't fully convincing. For example,

This is clearly, if ever, fishing.

I would want to know the same thing. If it were true, we could lynch storr with less risk, for example. Also, Storr has been giving away plenty of information on his own this day.

mets have you put down any arguments against me? (i don't recall that you have)

[Djfireside]

I have had alot of things come up at work so Im catching up and will join in the fun it looks like everyone is having.

[StorrZerg]

People who need to check in.

Dj last post of contributions over 2 days.

Iron Butterfly 2 days ( I don't count his recent topic on flavor a contribution to the game since it has been proven inaccurate)

James, well over 3 days. He will literally coast the entire game if he isn't asked to participate. He was on yesterday. He is scummy and incredibly lurky.

Spiesr 2 days since last. He is around past day and now. Has made no comment after I claimed.

[spiesr]

It is standard play here at CC that mafia shoots and serial killers chop or kill.

This is certainly an idea I have heard before, but haven't seen used nearly enough to call it a standard. Most of the time games have enough theme derived flavor that the murder weapon is whatever fits with the character.

I'm putting up this god like defense because I'm town. I'm not going to be that town that didn't fight hard enough to not be lynched.

Why? If you're town, then you know the game is about town winning. Not about you staying alive.

Generally lynching a town player is not an action in the town's favor. I don't think we are yet at the point where the only realistic options are he gets lynched today or there is no lynch today and he gets lynched tomorrow. Although we might end up there before too long, in which case I hope Storr realises it and does the right thing.

You actually haven't presented a single way for anyone to verify your role. All you have discussed is what would happen if you were watching someone who died. If your information never shows up in the scene, then you can just say that you were watching someone else. The only thing we could hope to try is to tell you exactly who to watch every night, and then hope (?) that this person gets NK'ed by the mafia so that we can pick one out. Which obviously would not work because then mafia would just NK someone else to avoid getting found out.

If we had a person with a Vig action that we trusted (or wanted to test?) we could have that person execute somebody who we would otherwise just lynch and have Stor watch the target. That would mostly confirm both of them. (Although we would have to hope that mafia don't have a roleblocker, busdriver, or something else to mess it up.)

A couple of questions Storr.

You targetted yourself N1, does that mean if you die on any night information on the killer will show up in the day post? Or is it one night only you have to target the soon to be deceased on the same night as there death?
Also, do you have any idea what information you would receive?

This is clearly, if ever, fishing. If I was mafia, I would want to know exactly this. Storr also already noticed this on his next post. ''Can we kill you this night, Storr, without giving information to town?'' ''Or do we go for someone else''?

I don't know about you, but I have always considered it only appropriate for role claims to contain all the information about the role and answer any question anybody might have so that everybody fully understands what is being claimed. I picture somebody being forced to claim as the town revoking their privilege to have secret information. After all, if all the information about the claim is not on the table, or if somebody does not understand it, how are we supposed to evaluate if we believe the claim or not?

I'd also like to add that I am sure Storr did not use his power on himself, explanation of this will follow when I get a mail back from our mod. I asked him a few things to confirm before I can say more.

If that is the case why are you not advocating lynching him for lying?

Another thing, TAMBO ROLE BLOCKED SOMEONE. no one is claiming it. THERE is a strong chance that who ever got role blocked is TOWN. i have no idea why no one is commenting on people being role blocked.

In my experience in most games players are not notified that they were blocked unless they used an action that returns a result from the mod. So it is possible that whoever got blocked doesn't know. I am not sure what you want to discuss here, we don't know who he targeted and whoever he hit might not know either. Unless you want to speculate about who his likely targets would have been?

[StorrZerg]

1st point topic not a valid discussion since mod said flavor is what it is, flavor. 0 point talking about it.

2nd point. Does what right thing? I'm not going to let myself be lynched. That is against my win con. I am trying to figure out the game. I am posting my town reads, and pushing who I think is scum.

3rd point very unlikely, vig didn't claim yesterday, any claim today would likely be sk. I'd be ok with that plan, only cause said claimed vig would return scum most likely.

4th point he asked a question that was answered. And the other I would have obviously brought up if my power lasted more than 1 night. That kind of question clearly came from someone that can kill.

5th point idk waiting for that answer myself, specially since he isn't pushing me.

6th. Often it's a good thing to ask the mod how powers interact in the game. For example my power doesn't always return something. I have to watch someone who is targeted for a kill for something to happen. In this game, I would be notified if I got role blocked. Same with anyone who has a night action. So since everyone has a role, likely we can easily deduce if someone was blocked. Which if any person claimed to not have a night action now we could potentially catch someone in a lie with watcher or tracker.

[StorrZerg]

@spiesr have any updated reads? Maybe james jonty iron?

[Metsfanmax]

No the post proves that i wasn't doing anything wrong. You stated i should be mod killed for bringing up what i did. I do not have a fake claim, striker had to say what he did exactly the way he did it to give no hint as to my alignment. If he leaves out the mafia section, that could be interpreted as a mod hinting i'm town, most likely on accident. The fact that you are trying to bring some illusion that what striker said has any affiliation to my alignment is pretty bogus. It clearly does not state "i might have been confirming how my fake claim works" You are putting words in the mods mouth with that kind of statement. A mod has to keep the information unbiased, to say that he is leaning one way on how he gave the information regarding my alignment is a bad argument. Hell most of this information that strike has given isn't anything new, its very common information if you remembered from Breaking bad. (mafia having fake claims, striker not giving hints or clues in flavor of the game)

You need to stop and think about what I'm saying for a minute. I didn't say that strike's comment says anything about your alignment. In fact, I said the opposite: it means we can't know your alignment or even that you have the role you claim. Your comment about how your role would work is completely unconfirmable by the mod, of course, because if he confirmed what you said that would be tantamount to confirming that you have the role, which he won't do. My whole point has been that your attempt to sway us with "the mod confirmed this! I'm telling the truth guys!" says nothing about either your alignment or your role, unless we already trust that you're town and have no reason to lie (which we don't).

Also another note, Streaker says he is sure i didn't watch myself. Are you the least bit curious to that statement? Why are you not questioning him more on it. Wouldn't evidence of me not being on myself be damning?

I have been curious about that for a while, but he said he needed more time to explain why he said that, so I'm giving it to him.

[StorrZerg]

My role can and will be confirmed by the mod pending if i get a correct watch on someone who dies. Why you ask? Because if something came in the day post that stated a role had visited X dead person, then that is confirmation on my role. Regarding my alignment, if it did happen i would nearly be 99% confirmed town, why? Because that role is so fucking bad its town. It literally does NOTHING for mafia, since it outs information publicly. I know we almost certainly have at least 2 killing factions in this game. I can't imagine any reason why my role wouldn't be in the game if there wasn't.
I never made the attempt to state i was pre mod confirmed. I was making a point as to what mod confirmed information would look like in the day post. Then i also proved to iron, that his theory about sk being in the game based of flavor was false. Since it was not mod hinting at information in game. YOU miss read my post. YOU miss read the situation. IF I WAS trying to state i was mod confirmed like that, no doubt the mod WOULD HAVE WARNED ME.
With that we are going to stop talking about his "mod kill related stuff. Because it isn't productive, and it was clearly based on miss communication.

In fact, I said the opposite: it means we can't know your alignment

This is what you said.

In fact, the comment about mafia fake claims is even more damning to your point because now it says you might have been confirming how your fake claim works rather than your actual role.

Forgive me if i take "damning to your point" as you trying to extrapolate alignment indicative information out of strikers comment rather than " we can't know your alignment."
So if thats all your stating is "we can't know" Then there is no more discussion on this matter.


Lastly, you care to present a read on someone else in the game besides me? A town read perhaps, as well as another mafia read?
if you all ready have and it hasn't changed, please just tell me who it is, or link me to the post. (this is my second request)

[pancakemix]

Says balance not alignment.

Meaning that alignments are assigned without regard for it.

Also you're skirting with a mod killable offense. Saying that the mod has confirmed that this is how your role works confirms that you do actually have this role, which is information you cannot post.

I know this has been gone over, but it's really only a killable offense if he quotes it directly. That said, appealing to authority like that is a bastard move on his part.

Also every single person who has stated "well i was about to back off you and push XX or maybe push someone else" only to have in the same post "but you just did this / i found this" so i'm going to stay. (which include IRON, streaker, mets, pcm.) forgive me if you didn't do exactly this, but i'm calling out 4 people right now with similar behavior to my lynch.

I actually don't recall making that claim. All I said was that your claim is probably true (I reserve the right to presume it false for the sake of argument), but that it's moot because it could be aligned either way. My arguments about your behavior (which you admit makes you look anti-town) still stand.

I'm putting up this god like defense

If you describe anything you do as "god-like" you may want to reconsider your adjectives, honestly.

Baahhhhhh bahhhhh

Because being a dick will keep you from getting lynched. You heard it here, folks.

did I fail to keep the pressure on virus. Yes. Did I sniff him out, set him on his heals, force him to claim. Yes. Relentless pressure for 5 days.

But you failed to close, and closing is everything. The fact that you backed off so easily sets off red flags. Making the conservative play on virus in that scenario doesn't fit your MO, either. You found that claim believable when no one else did, and continually gave him the benefit of the doubt for a good while, and even after it was clear that virus was gonna get lynched you waited to the wire. That doesn't sound like the ruthless scumhunter you make yourself out to be.

WRECKED METS AND IRON

Seriously, you are racking up the "being a dick" points today.

Storr, honestly, if you play the game like this then you simply invite this kind of attention. Though you did get the job done on D1. EVERYONE SAYING STORR WAS NOT THE MAIN INSTIGATOR FOR D1 MAFFIA LYNCH NEEDS TO REREAD, NOW.

Mets, I can see and understand a lot (though not all) of your argumentation you bring up. I also have the feeling that this is mostly due the the way Storr plays so agresso. Do you honestly believe Storr would go hunting on D1 like that on his scummate?

Now, in my mind I don't exclude that play, so Storr could very well still be mafia. I will not vote for him now because I give him credit for his D1 hunt.

A grand total of zero people are now going back to reread D1. The point is that he did NOT get the job done, and very publicly so. I think you're missing the crux of this whole debate.

This is clearly, if ever, fishing. If I was mafia, I would want to know exactly this. Storr also already noticed this on his next post. ''Can we kill you this night, Storr, without giving information to town?'' ''Or do we go for someone else''

Uh, no. Once a claim's out, it's out. He has to define it completely or it wouldn't be credible. Mafia know that there's a threat anyway, and if it's credible there's just as much chance that a doc would protect him as there is to encounter his power in the pool of remaining players.

##unvote
##Vote Jonty125

I've presented my case on him as well.

Oh look, an out!

You stated i should be mod killed for bringing up what i did.

No, he said you were skirting the line between a modkill and no modkill. And really, it's still a bastard play.

Please present a case on someone else that isn't me. I eagerly await to hear it. If you all ready presented a reasonable case, just say who it was on and i will re look at it.

The irony of you complaining that no one will talk about anyone else while you're on the precipice of being lynched is palpable.

My role can and will be confirmed by the mod pending if i get a correct watch on someone who dies.

If enlarged to scale. Seriously, asking for that much rope is preposterous. If I believe your claim is true, but your alignment is false, then for sure you're not going to get a correct read and if you did, it wouldn't matter because you're scum and I shouldn't give you that chance (and that's assuming that this claim isn't a fake). Even if I buy that you're town, I can't trust that you'd get a correct read just on probability, and if your thought process is typically similar to "I pushed a scum so I'm gonna get killed" (which translates as "I'm gonna get killed because I'm me") then your perspective is so stilted that it's worthless.

[Iron Butterfly]

Also make note, IRON said he was going to look someplace besides me, BUT found evidence in the day post to suggest sk. now that this has been proven false, he needs to back up his claim imo of looking some place else.

I was about to write a post to support your Town Role and focus on jonty when I re read the night scene and Hotshots death registered.

Storr you would not of had to defend yourself so much if you had just claimed and knew when to shut up. No you had to set precedent and decided to be the exception to the rule. When you do claim its a less the stellar role. You have to understand my thinking. I learned to play mafia here at CC. In my several years playing here I have NEVER seen a Town Crier in game.

Now it's true different Mods have differing styles especially in night scenes. Many games we played relied on flavor in the night scenes to suggest what was in game. As I said earlier many times an SK was the killer with the knife, Ax or blade while mafia or Vig would be portrayed with a gun. Many times the game devolved into what exactly happened in the night scene, while people debated what meant what. In this night scene Hotshot was killed by an ax man. The scene seems to suggest he was going to recruit a player and the player he choose instead killed him.

You were also extremely unclear in your role description until you explained it thoroughly. I completely misunderstood how it worked, which is why I brought up the night scene. Contrary to your statement an SK has not been proven false but I will concur that your role tells me that there may be two factions.

Now I was extremely surprised at how quick the bandwagon on you went. I am not sure if some of the votes are a result of your plays tyle and personality or because people think your mafia/anti town. Your kicking and screaming because you were forced to claim didn't not help your cause.

Jonty taking you to L1 was real scummy and to say that there is no difference between L1 and L2 is bullshit. We have played many games with mafia double voters, which is one reason the L2 rule was created. To minimize it that way after playing so many games here at is scummy.

vote jonty

[StorrZerg]

Says balance not alignment.

Meaning that alignments are assigned without regard for it.
no that is an assumption you are making. It doesn't state "roles got handed out regardless of alignment" It states "roles handed out regardless of balance. He very well and most likely made roles specifically for certain alignments. If the setup was roles indeterminate of alignment there would be no need for fake claims.

Also you're skirting with a mod killable offense. Saying that the mod has confirmed that this is how your role works confirms that you do actually have this role, which is information you cannot post.

I know this has been gone over, but it's really only a killable offense if he quotes it directly. That said, appealing to authority like that is a bastard move on his part.
sorry you need to rephrase that statement because you are incorrect. Regarding "mod stuff" I was representing what a mod confirmed post on day would be like, and how irons interpretation was wrong. My appeal to the mod was to shut people up regarding "use day posts flavor as evidence on setup" That is hardly a "bastard" move to get people on the right track, and stop confusion. Its the same with if i asked the mod in general "do anti town have fake claims" He would most likely respond in the game "yes anti town have fake claims" Did i rub it in peoples face? Yes. Was i gloating a ltitle? Sure. What i did was a bastard move, is bullshit. It was very important that irons post about flavor got put down, because it was spreading miss information.

Also every single person who has stated "well i was about to back off you and push XX or maybe push someone else" only to have in the same post "but you just did this / i found this" so i'm going to stay. (which include IRON, streaker, mets, pcm.) forgive me if you didn't do exactly this, but i'm calling out 4 people right now with similar behavior to my lynch.

I actually don't recall making that claim. All I said was that your claim is probably true (I reserve the right to presume it false for the sake of argument), but that it's moot because it could be aligned either way. My arguments about your behavior (which you admit makes you look anti-town) still stand.

"Wait, you're giving up? I'm legitimately on the fence here about your claim, but I have some doubts about your actions and your role. You could answer those questions and maybe sway me but if you're content to be lynched, I'm content to leave my vote where it is."

yeah, you hadn't agreed to back off, but you make it appear as you are seriously considering it. And if you are, there is absoulty no reason you need to keep pressuring me. Why? because the majority of the people in this game are. You could be trying to read other people, giving more insight to the game on others, or presenting a new case on a different person. Pressuring multiple people at once is not scummy.

Secondly, my behavior is not alignment indicative. I'm frustrated for good reason. I get abrasive, and mean and aggressive. This isn't your first time playing with me, And if you recall i had people calling me out (mets specifically) who wanted to lynch me over behavior and not because they thought i was mafia.

Maybe it will help if i describe how i am feeling right now. So i wake up, see my favorite player dead. That sucks. I make some posts, see some 2 vote pressure go to sleep. I wake up to 4 people voting me and wanting me dead. It has now been 4 days, of relentless people pushing on me. yes i think relentless is the right word. Every time i try to defend i get countered. I bring up what i did to virus for the first 5 days. it doesn't matter to some people. I bring how i tried to gather town together to get a lynch. people deny that i had any effect on them on their choice. I bring up meta, how it could be used to possibly defend myself. I get attack for bringing up meta. Someone re reads the day post, and now thinks my claim is scummy because they read into flavor when flavor is just flavor. I mean.. the list just goes on and on. I get pissed, i get upset. Nothing i do seems to be good enough. Playing the game by giving reads on other people isn't good enough. explaining my view point on who is town and who is scum. Doesn't mean anything. And all the while, we have james who is sitting at 2 posts per 7 days. And this is acceptable to some people. We have mets, who on nearly ever other player who has had an case brought up, strikes it down for being silly. yet, with all the cases thrown at me he has never said a single one was silly or bad.

I'm putting up this god like defense

If you describe anything you do as "god-like" you may want to reconsider your adjectives, honestly.
I'm serious. I really feel i'm doing my damn best that i can to prove my innocence, my town alignment, and push the game forward in a good direction.

Baahhhhhh bahhhhh

Because being a dick will keep you from getting lynched. You heard it here, folks.
Sure, mocking and being a dick isn't going to help me.

did I fail to keep the pressure on virus. Yes. Did I sniff him out, set him on his heals, force him to claim. Yes. Relentless pressure for 5 days.

But you failed to close, and closing is everything. The fact that you backed off so easily sets off red flags. Making the conservative play on virus in that scenario doesn't fit your MO, either. You found that claim believable when no one else did, and continually gave him the benefit of the doubt for a good while, and even after it was clear that virus was gonna get lynched you waited to the wire. That doesn't sound like the ruthless scumhunter you make yourself out to be.

I disagree that closing is everything. I set town on the right track to lynch mafia even if i failed to follow through. If i hadn't placed the effort to rout him out from his little hole. we very may have lynched someone else that was town. Or had a no lynch. If i had backed off the first time mets said my case was silly, or when james and jonty started to pressure me, virus just gets lost. I dont' see you or mets going onto virus if he hadn't of claimed. I don't see Jonty going on virus with out that claim...

I found that claim provable via policy, along with my role being able to check. The that mets decided it was policy to lynch him because he didn't want to deal with a question mark.
As far as waiting, I know he is in a different country, on a different time zone. What difference did 6 hours make? What if he was town, and made 1 final post that damned a mafia? There are a lot of variables that could have happened. I was set to hammer him.

Storr, honestly, if you play the game like this then you simply invite this kind of attention. Though you did get the job done on D1. EVERYONE SAYING STORR WAS NOT THE MAIN INSTIGATOR FOR D1 MAFFIA LYNCH NEEDS TO REREAD, NOW.

Mets, I can see and understand a lot (though not all) of your argumentation you bring up. I also have the feeling that this is mostly due the the way Storr plays so agresso. Do you honestly believe Storr would go hunting on D1 like that on his scummate?

Occam's razor. The simplest solution is the most likely solution. You have 2 sides to the story. The town storr, who pushes virus for most of the day, and reconsiders virus over policy, and his role. (but wont let a no lynch happen) or the mafia storr, who pushes on his mafia team mate and forces him to claim. Then tries to save him in a very small amount of time. All the while has the plan, with his power role to prove his innocence.

As for mafia, After everyone started re voting him, and how clear it is that he is 99% going to be the lynch woudln't i revote, disregard dj and gain super mega town points that could be ridden till the end of the game. I do make mistakes regardless of alignment. But i assure you, i wouldn't falter this hard as mafia when pushing a team mate.

Now, in my mind I don't exclude that play, so Storr could very well still be mafia. I will not vote for him now because I give him credit for his D1 hunt.

A grand total of zero people are now going back to reread D1. The point is that he did NOT get the job done, and very publicly so. I think you're missing the crux of this whole debate.
I don't think he is. I think he sees the reality of the situation. That or he is mafia and prepping early for day 3, to go haha nanana boo boo i was right about storr. (I believe the first, because i have a town read on him.)

This is clearly, if ever, fishing. If I was mafia, I would want to know exactly this. Storr also already noticed this on his next post. ''Can we kill you this night, Storr, without giving information to town?'' ''Or do we go for someone else''

Uh, no. Once a claim's out, it's out. He has to define it completely or it wouldn't be credible. Mafia know that there's a threat anyway, and if it's credible there's just as much chance that a doc would protect him as there is to encounter his power in the pool of remaining players.
So i answered this before but ill answer it again. I did define my role for 1 of his questions. (it was answered) As for the question if my power stays on someone. I very specifically would have mentioned if it was true. A person with a "killing" mindset wants to know the answer to that kind of question.

##unvote
##Vote Jonty125

I've presented my case on him as well.

Oh look, an out!
Its hardly an out while im still at L-2. I would need 4 people to vote him, you should consider since streaker hasn't actually voted jonty. So most likely nothing will come from this pressure, since its an illusion. Not until enough pressure is brought off me, would any person be scared of being lynched today. hence with no pressure, they are welcome to lurk as much as they want and not contribute. Case and point jonty and james.

You stated i should be mod killed for bringing up what i did.

No, he said you were skirting the line between a modkill and no modkill. And really, it's still a bastard play.
Again, mets did not read the exchange between myself and iron correctly. I was clearly pointing out what mod confirmed information would look like in a day post, and that irons theory about a confirmed SK in the game based off hotshot dieing to an axe was wrong. After being called out, is when i asked the mod to confirm i hadn't done anything wrong, and to confirm that flavor is flavor.

Please present a case on someone else that isn't me. I eagerly await to hear it. If you all ready presented a reasonable case, just say who it was on and i will re look at it.

The irony of you complaining that no one will talk about anyone else while you're on the precipice of being lynched is palpable.
I'd be happy to stop my bitching, if there was some help in moving the game forward.

My role can and will be confirmed by the mod pending if i get a correct watch on someone who dies.

If enlarged to scale. Seriously, asking for that much rope is preposterous. If I believe your claim is true, but your alignment is false, then for sure you're not going to get a correct read and if you did, it wouldn't matter because you're scum and I shouldn't give you that chance (and that's assuming that this claim isn't a fake). Even if I buy that you're town, I can't trust that you'd get a correct read just on probability, and if your thought process is typically similar to "I pushed a scum so I'm gonna get killed" (which translates as "I'm gonna get killed because I'm me") then your perspective is so stilted that it's worthless.

Its no different than being a doctor that asks to be given the chance to make a save. Or being a watcher or tracker... I was told i hadn't said a way i could be proved. I know its not a good chance to be proven in 1 night. Yet this is a chance. LOL. i have no reason to watch myself tonight. TO many people want to kill me. My action will be going out tonight, and it can be tracked, I can be watched. I can be verified.

You want no more asshole storr. I'll try. I ask you present a case on someone else you find mafia. (you don't have to vote for them idc about that)

and i ask that you present at least 1 case on someone you find town. These are reasonable request, you should have no reason to deny doing them.

ANY person in this game, should be willing and able to give reads on the current game. Most people are not. Several are skirting by, waiting for me to be lynched.

[strike wolf]

Vote Count

Storr (3)-DJfireside, PancakeMix, Jonty
Jonty (2)-Streaker, Storr

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline is on Sunday around 11:30 EST.