Actors Mafia Endgame: Town Wins

[strike wolf]

Vote Count

Bgthebrain (3)-Edoc, safariguy, Pancake
blake
Zimmah (2)-rodion, victor sullivan
Mr. Squirrel (1)-mobdeadly, Bgthebrain, zimmah
Jonty (1)-Zimmah
drunkmonkey
rodion
edocsil
victor sullivan
newguy
spiesr
mob deadly
pancakemix
flores des mal
safariguy
conzocool

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Activity has been good so I'll extend the deadline by 2 days (a week from now). Keep it up.

Quoted with updated vote count.

[zimmah]

Zimmah I appreciate the vote for Mr S, but Im not gonna make you keep your vote on him. I think its time for us to regroup and figure out what to do.

Enough people seem to think Mr S had a valid case to go after me, so Im fine with it.

Where do we go from here?

what about rodion? or someone else who's lurking.

i just think rodion is quite often scum (guess he's just lucky/unlucky) so i wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be scum this time too.

also, he's quite good at hiding it too.

[jonty125]

Jonty, can you confirm that you would appear town under an investigation?

Yes, I would come up as a townie because I am one

[spiesr]

Jonty, can you confirm that you would appear town under an investigation?

Yes, I would come up as a townie because I am one.

Just wanted to check, I mean, you have been like a third party survivor or something or been informed that you are a miller.

point 2) i know flores may not be doc, i never said he was, but i'm saying that mafia will know if floris is mafia-aligned. and if mafia knows floris is not mafia-aligned, they will know floris is a town power-role, even though they will not know for sure what role exactly they will have. therefore either me or floris needs to be protected tonight, because one of us will more then likely be targeted. if not both of us.

That assumption is a bit of a stretch to make at this point in time. The mafia have several other potential targets. I mean, BGtB has claimed inventor and claimed an innocent investigation on Jonty, Conzocol has claimed jailkeeper. Those targets all seem at least as alluring as "Flores has a night action."

Where do we go from here?

what about rodion? or someone else who's lurking.

Speaking of Flores, I think that she and Rodion could use a prod Strikewolf.

[safariguy5]

well, BG has to be VERY creative to think of a roleclaim like this on his own.

therefore, as promised:

unvote vote squirrel

JOAT might prove somewhat usefull, even though it's a bit of a guess what each item really does. most JOATs do have 1 shot doctor, 1 shot cop, 1 shot watcher etc.

True, but we're talking about an inventor role, who can guess at what his inventions do but ultimately don't know until he actually uses them. JOAT knows exactly what he can do. So inventor can be like a JOAT, but his abilities are not as clear.

I don't see how we can now turn around and then accuse Mr. S of bringing a case. Scumhunting doesn't automatically imply scum trying to hang townie if the case doesn't appear to work out. I thought the case was valid, and reading BG's responses (flaming doesn't help your case) I thought he seemed extremely defensive given the rather light pressure he was under. I don't think the wagon got to even 5 votes.

So now we have 3 claimed roles, and some people are pushing for a 4th claim. I think we're lucky so far in that none of the claimed roles are necessarily an extremely strong town PR, but we may be giving mafia more information than we're getting right now. I'm not advocating a no lynch right now, but I think we need to consider the possibility of a no lynch if we cannot find a satisfactory case (and I do not think Mr. Squirrel is a good case).

Also, if BG does flip mafia, we need to take a good look at drunk, who is basically aligning himself with BG.

And to answer an earlier comment from zimmah, knowing that flores visited sully doesn't automatically imply that Flores is a doc, as many roles have night actions. Roleblocker, busdriver, and bodyguard come to mind. Could also be a mafia power like framer too.

point 1) i do know squirrel is not neccesarily scum. but i'm keeping my promise towards bg. that's why i vote squirrel.

point 2) i know flores may not be doc, i never said he was, but i'm saying that mafia will know if floris is mafia-aligned. and if mafia knows floris is not mafia-aligned, they will know floris is a town power-role, even though they will not know for sure what role exactly they will have. therefore either me or floris needs to be protected tonight, because one of us will more then likely be targeted. if not both of us.

Again, we already have like 3 claimed town roles with night actions. While I don't deny that having night actions is more useful than VT, to me, the main power roles are sane cop and doctor. Everyone else is situationally useful, but not necessarily a true power role. So I'm not exactly that concerned about Flores having a night action.

And Flores is a girl, for the record.

[safariguy5]

Zimmah I appreciate the vote for Mr S, but Im not gonna make you keep your vote on him. I think its time for us to regroup and figure out what to do.

Enough people seem to think Mr S had a valid case to go after me, so Im fine with it.

Where do we go from here?

what about rodion? or someone else who's lurking.

i just think rodion is quite often scum (guess he's just lucky/unlucky) so i wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be scum this time too.

also, he's quite good at hiding it too.

Well he is quite good at defending himself. Again, mafia roles are assigned by random, so someone being mafia is just the luck of the draw (kinda like dice). What we want to look for is deviation from usual mafia playstyle and Rodion hasn't really been around much for me to make that kind of judgment.

[Victor Sullivan]

Well, shat my pants! I've missed a bit. My only real comment is, where's Flores?

-Sully

[jonty125]

Jonty, can you confirm that you would appear town under an investigation?

Yes, I would come up as a townie because I am one.

Spieser you missed out my similies!

Mod, please prod those who have been previously mentioned - Rodion, Flores

[strike wolf]

Flores, Rodion and Conzocool have been prodded.

No changes to vote count. Deadline in 6 days.

[Rodion]

Sorry, but the game grew about 8 pages within 48 hours of my last post and it was hard to keep up with this pace.

Anyway, we have 3 claims:

Zimmah - Rambo, town tracker -> Flores visited Victor

Conzocool - Alien guy, town jailkeeper ->jailkept Edocsil

BGtheBrain - Egon, inventor (I don't think he ever mentioned the "town" part) -> Jonty is clean (@BG: does that equal an innocent cop result? Please ask Strike Wolf and be sure to tell us before D2 ends)

As far as acting scummy goes, other than Zimmah and Conzocool my main suspicions lie in Safariguy5. His D1 Drunkmonkey wagon was totally uncharacteristic. For those of you who don't know Safari's town MO, when he doesn't have a legit case he defaults to pressuring inactives (inactive mafia are hard to catch because they don't scumtell and inactive town are detrimental because they don't help achieve lynches and sometimes do not use their night actions). I've never seen Safari hop on a jokewagon and try to get a claim out of it like he did on this game. Add to that the fact that the deadline was far from being reached (we had about a week to find a legit case) and you can understand why his pressure was so unwarranted and uncharacteristic.

Moreover, his first D2 post presented a flawed reasoning for voting BG:

As for the secondary case on BG vs Mr. S, I feel that Mr. S has a point. When you vote for someone, you need to attach some reasoning, so that screenshot was appropriate during the original vote BG, not after the fact.

vote BG

This is particularly fishy because BG's vote on Blake was awful. His reasoning of pushing an inactive few hours short of the deadline and hoping that 8 other people would join him to get a lynch before Blake could claim and that by doing so he'd catch scum (either in Blake or in other people due to the analysis of their vote patterns) was SO flawed that he could easily be the target of votes and more votes with those voters not really needing to elaborate a lot on why they decided to vote BG. However, instead of saying how BG's reasoning was flawed, Safari decided to say that BG's screenshot (which proved that his 1-line vote on Blake had a previous reasoning, a reasoning that - albeit flawed - was presented 5 minutes before his vote) was formally invalid and that the correct action would have been to repeat what he had said 5 minutes before and only then cast the vote. And since the screenshot was posted "after the fact", he went to voting BG.

Had those actions come from a less experienced player, we could argue that a FOS would be best suited to the proportion of the gaffes, but coming from someone as experienced as Safari it is hard to conceive him sharing a town alignmen at this point in the game.

Unvote, vote safariguy5.

[Conzocool]

Hey guys, only reason I've been inactive is hectic schedule and not much to say. I just don't really know what to say. I'll read through the thread and see if there's anything I can add.

[MoB Deadly]

Actually, I do agree with rodions post. Even sometimes the pros make mistakes. He phrased it perfectly, if it came from just about any player I wouldn't have any suspicion. But Safari is almost too good, and too systematic with his votes that it IS out of character. I guess its one of the downfalls with playing with the same people over and over

small fos safari

[safariguy5]

Well to address my Day 1 vote, let's look at the situation. Nobody made a clear scumtell or suspicious post. Now, I could vote an inactive sure, but given that it's Day 1, the odds of us getting information from an inactive in the form of a claim would be lower, and the probability that the inactive would respond in time before deadline also lower. I'm perfectly happy to vote inactives on later days when we have other information already to consider, but I consider going to a no lynch Day 1 with ZERO information the equivalent of a wasted day. Bandwagonning is a necessary evil Day 1 to get information, so I don't consider that vote to be out of character for me. If you go back and look at my games, when the game stalls around day 3/4, that's where I go to my standard "pressure the inactive".

As for my vote on BG, the number one thing that gets my goat is a post with no substance and simply a vote. MoB knows this pretty well as I've called him out repeatedly about that (rightly or wrongly). If you can't be arsed to put a little evidence or reasoning into the post, then how is the person going to respond to the vote? Even if BG had just posted evidence beforehand, how difficult is it to quote the post and then add the vote? It keeps everything organized and doesn't force people to page flip until they find the evidence.

Add to the fact that BG's vote looked to me like a scum tactic of switching bandwagons to force a no lynch and I think that the vote was justified.

[MoB Deadly]

MoB knows this pretty well as I've called him out repeatedly about that (rightly or wrongly).

so true, I've been working on this, a couple more D1s and maybe I will make it through without having to roleclaim.

[Mr. Squirrel]

Actually, I do agree with rodions post. Even sometimes the pros make mistakes. He phrased it perfectly, if it came from just about any player I wouldn't have any suspicion. But Safari is almost too good, and too systematic with his votes that it IS out of character. I guess its one of the downfalls with playing with the same people over and over

If sully or PCM or edocsil said this, I would have no problem with it. But how long have you been playing? I feel rodion has been around long enough to present a metagame case on safariguy, but you seem like you are just pretending like you agree with rodion just to add more pressure to the case. Honestly, you have not played nearly enough games (especially with safariguy) to make a valid metagame case on saf.

Its not worth a vote, but thats just a tad scummy if you ask me.

[MoB Deadly]

naw way, i mean its easy to tell he leads the way in most games especialliy early. I played with him in Gangsta mafia, Dragoon mafia, he balanced my power mafia, and ive been following mafia games that I have not participated in including memebase and futurama, but if u think.. I guess I just made it up.... but im drunk but still

[jonty125]

naw way, i mean its easy to tell he leads the way in most games especialliy early. I played with him in Gangsta mafia, Dragoon mafia, he balanced my power mafia, and ive been following mafia games that I have not participated in including memebase and futurama, but if u think.. I guess I just made it up.... but im drunk but still

4 games, not enough to be able to metagame someone, not an FOS from me.

[MoB Deadly]

naw way, i mean its easy to tell he leads the way in most games especialliy early. I played with him in Gangsta mafia, Dragoon mafia, he balanced my power mafia, and ive been following mafia games that I have not participated in including memebase and futurama, but if u think.. I guess I just made it up.... but im drunk but still

cancel that though safari is the mod in futurama, so that doesnt prove my point

[edocsil]

Actually, I do agree with rodions post. Even sometimes the pros make mistakes. He phrased it perfectly, if it came from just about any player I wouldn't have any suspicion. But Safari is almost too good, and too systematic with his votes that it IS out of character. I guess its one of the downfalls with playing with the same people over and over

If sully or PCM or edocsil said this, I would have no problem with it. But how long have you been playing? I feel rodion has been around long enough to present a metagame case on safariguy, but you seem like you are just pretending like you agree with rodion just to add more pressure to the case. Honestly, you have not played nearly enough games (especially with safariguy) to make a valid metagame case on saf.

Its not worth a vote, but thats just a tad scummy if you ask me.

I'll fos mob over this. Safari is one of the oldest players here. He will have a clean record D2 if he is scum or town. I Might be able to get away with saying something like that D5, and that is only if events had left us with no other substantial leads.

[BGtheBrain]

****

[strike wolf]

Vote Count

Bgthebrain (3)-Edoc, safariguy, Pancake
blake
Zimmah (2)-rodion, victor sullivan
Mr. Squirrel (1)-mobdeadly, Bgthebrain, zimmah
Jonty (1)-Zimmah
drunkmonkey
rodion
edocsil
victor sullivan
newguy
spiesr
mob deadly
pancakemix
flores des mal
safariguy (1)-Rodion
conzocool

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline Thursday.

Drake will be replacing Flores.

[new guy1]

you have rodion listed as voting 2 people and zimmah as voting two people as well, just to let you know

[strike wolf]

Vote Count

Bgthebrain (3)-Edoc, safariguy, Pancake
blake
Zimmah (1)-victor sullivan
Mr. Squirrel (3)-mobdeadly, Bgthebrain, zimmah
Jonty
drunkmonkey
rodion
edocsil
victor sullivan
newguy
spiesr
mob deadly
pancakemix
flores des mal
safariguy (1)-Rodion
conzocool

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline Thursday.

Drake will be replacing Flores.

Fixed

[new guy1]

okay, haha. just wanted to point it out so nobody got confused ^_^.

[spiesr]

you have rodion listed as voting 2 people and zimmah as voting two people as well, just to let you know

That is what happens when the mod doesn't have us use unvotes.