Actors Mafia Endgame: Town Wins

[BGtheBrain]

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[drunkmonkey]

vote blakebowling

Unvote Vote BG for complete lack of reasoning in a placed vote.

Anyhow, this is where I would like to start. This did absolutely nothing to help the town, it was not rationalized and it served no purpose but to distract from the Conzo case that had been presented.

Edocsil brings up a point against BG. Its weak, but its a lead nonetheless. He votes a couple posts later. Page 15

I'll Vote BG to help add some pressure.

Blake adds himself to form a small wagon. It looks like the criticism of BG is gaining support. (Bottom of Page 15)

Edoc produces a weak case, blake adds an obvious OMGUS vote, and you think this means "the criticism of BG is gaining support"?

BG responds with:

So Blake, where were you on D1? You know whats not helpful? A guy who votes himself and disappers....

Rather than address the case on himself, he decides to cast suspicion on the person voting for him. (I won't bother providing a link for this one since I quoted the post in full)

The case on BG was that he voted blake with no reasoning. His reasoning was blake's inactivity. So he asks blake about his inactivity.

A little later, this is the defense he provides for his case:

The deadline was coming and there were alot of inactives. After Conzo's claim, I believed him and as stated we needed someone. I clearly pointed out you were too quiet (saying nothing but voting yourself).

He conveniently ignores the fact that he was still pushing for conzo's lynch after his claim. Instead, he words it so that he sounded like he was trying to look out for town and chase new leads. (Personally, I don't think voting inactives is chasing leads, but thats my opinion.) Full post here

Now I'm confused. You call him scummy for questioning conzo's claim, but then go on to say that voting inactives is not useful either (for the record, Mr. S replaced an inactive on D2). It seems to me, this close to the deadline, those were the only two options. Basically, he was scummy either way.

A few posts later, he lashes out at edoc (the one who initially cast suspicion on him):

Wait, Edoc I already answered this accusation D1.
Whats your problem here with my BB vote? Its like your making shit up to try to make me look scummy... Why ignore my response and then bring the issue up (which I answered) as reasoning to "pressure" me.

here

This is lashing out? He's simply responding to his accusation, which you vilified him for not doing, earlier in this post.

And now, when I present my case on him, he attacks me too (I don't think I need to present any quotes for this claim). So now he is 3 for 3 on OMGUS against people who accuse him. That is why I made this accusation:

with your record of attacking those who attack you I wouldn't put it past you to try to kill off your accusers at night.

WTF does this mean? My record? More nonsense. In mafia at some point almost everyone accuses everyone. This argument is ridiculous. So if anyone FOS me or argues with me anf they die, you "wouldnt put it past me to try to kill of my accusers." Seriosly, the others may not see it, but I see through you.

By "your record" I was meaning your multiple OMGUS actions in this game. After anyone accuses you, you get defensive and accuse them of "making shit up". Since I am not the first to criticize your actions in this game, there obviously is something there. I don't think all three of us would just be blowing smoke out our asses. Plus Safariguy (another experienced player) has shown support of your scumminess. Your constant insistence that you are completely innocent and that none of us have anything on you is laughable really.

Im dead and shown town, I want Mr S lynched for his blatant embellishments and lies regarding things I said, when I said them, and how I said them.

If I make embellishments or lies about your posts, then point them out and let the town decide what your actual intentions were. I will admit that I often phrase things very carefully to get my point across and sometimes my language gets very colorful, but I definitely do not lie or falsify evidence. For this reason I have provided links to the full posts you made in this post. Anyone can go back and look at what you said. Criticize my logic all you want, but don't think that attacking my choice of words counts as a defense.

You say 3 for 3 on OMGUS votes. From my understanding, OMGUS is voting for someone because they voted for you. Yet the 3 people you refer to are:

1) blakebowling, whom BG voted for first, and actually never voted for on D2
2) edocsil, whom BG never cast a vote for
3) yourself, which is the only one that could be considered OMGUS

I'm not sure if you're just overeager to make a case, or blatantly manufacturing fake evidence to get BG lynched. Strong FOS Mr Squirrel.

[spiesr]

I think BG should be lynched over Mr.S but at L-6 and with 6 days to deadline we need a definite target or we could end up with a no lynch

Can you tell me why?

Because Mr. Squirrel is better than you at this.

Unlike most others I was here near the deadline trying to get something accomplished....Blake was inactive D1. he had a vote on himself. The end of D1 was coming, so I voted for him.

But, you see here, your vote on blake at the end of day 1 was extremely unlikely to get anything accomplished.It could not realistically have led to a lynch before the deadline, and by making it you divided the towns votes. Also, advocating to lynch of a player who is inactive to the point where they will not get a chance to defend themselves before the lynch would have to be reached can certainly be seen as a little scummy.

He conveniently ignores the fact that he was still pushing for conzo's lynch after his claim. Instead, he words it so that he sounded like he was trying to look out for town and chase new leads. (Personally, I don't think voting inactives is chasing leads, but thats my opinion.) Full post here

Its been pointed otu by me and a few others, this was discussing the pros and cons of if we were right or wrong on the lynch.

The problem here is that you at least appeared to be operating under the assumption that Conzocol's claim was truthful, and yet concluding in favor of lynching him anyway. This may not be what you were actually thinking, but it did rather look that way. It is reasonable for someone to find this scummy.

i am using both logic and volume, but mostly because i need volume because most of you are twisitng my words.

Once I read someone claiming that "the mafia want me dead," I basically give any hope of that person producing a competent defense.

[jonty125]

Hmmm, both BG and Squirrel have holes in their cases I'll wait until their patched up before taking a side.

And spiser what the bit about zimmah for

[edocsil]

Edocsil brings up a point against BG. Its weak, but its a lead nonetheless. He votes a couple posts later. Page 15

Edocs point was not valid. With little time before the deadline voting an inactive is not only justified, but common. I explained my reasoning for the vote (Deadline approaching. BB was inactive. Conzo claimed, enough people belived him to not lynch him. I was trying to move elsewhere to get a D1 lynch instead of sitting there doing nothing, waiting for the deadline to pass (liek it did)

For the reference I did not respond because there was little need to. It should be blatantly obvious that

So now what? Go after me for pushing for Conzo or vote for someone silent?

I think BlakeBowling has been too quiet

Does not qualify as a sufficient for a new case WHEN THERE ARE 7 HOURS TILL DEADLINE! The only possible lynch at that point is someone who was relatively close to a lynch, you simply cannot rationally think everyone is going to fall in and hang an inactive in 7 hours. All that move did was completely prevent any slim chance we had of getting something productive done with Drunkmonkey or conzocool and I expressly lay blame for the lack of a D1 lynch at your feet.

That is why my vote is on you, that is why you should be hung. f*ck, I don't care if someone is scum 3rd party or town, if they are going to prevent the town from perusing a needed lynch at a critical time that person needs to be removed!

[pancakemix]

Firstly, edoc, I will say that that's not always the case. If someone doesn't believe the only potential lynch is scum it's a moot point. Example: On page 12 you express the same sentiment to Flores when she unvoted conzo and voted BG (for much the same reasons that he's under fire right now, but I'm getting to that in a bit). She believed conzo's claim, so there's no reason to vote someone she believes to be a townie.

However, I do think you're correct to apply it to BG. Flores' unvote was logical, but BG, having weighed the options of lynching a potential town power role, unvotes in an almost apathetic way.

Yeah....... great...... now what?

unvote

No way we get a lynch on D1. Not enough active players with this short of timespan.

This IS counter intuitive and goes against "trying to get something done" as he claims he was in voting Blake. For that reason, I'm going to Vote BG.

You say 3 for 3 on OMGUS votes. From my understanding, OMGUS is voting for someone because they voted for you. Yet the 3 people you refer to are:

1) blakebowling, whom BG voted for first, and actually never voted for on D2
2) edocsil, whom BG never cast a vote for
3) yourself, which is the only one that could be considered OMGUS

I'm not sure if you're just overeager to make a case, or blatantly manufacturing fake evidence to get BG lynched. Strong FOS Mr Squirrel.

OMGUS doesn't always mean vote. He's just saying BG lashed out at those people for questioning his actions (which he did, as Squirrel duly noted). That's another reason why I'm voting him right now.

[BGtheBrain]

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[jonty125]

To save some time Im going to claim.
Im Egon - Inventor

I got 4 inventions The ghost trap, The Proton Pack, Ecto-containment unit, Ghost detector.

Last night I used the ghost detector on Jonty because I thought his math on the probability of Conzo disrupting a town role was wrong and maybe he was trying to help Conzo look better.

Jonty came back clean so there you have it.


Now, does anyone want to tell me what in gods name my other 3 inventions might do?
The ghost trap
The Proton Pack
Ecto-containment unit

Thanks

I swear that's JOAT

[drunkmonkey]

Just a guess -

Now, does anyone want to tell me what in gods name my other 3 inventions might do?
The ghost trap roleblock
The Proton Pack vig?
Ecto-containment unit doctor

Thanks

[drunkmonkey]

EBWOP: With all the questions about conzo's claim, especially by yourself, why not investigate him?

[BGtheBrain]

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[spiesr]

Also, vote Mr Squirrel

Why? Do you honestly believe that Mr. Squirrel is a scum member making this case in a deliberate attempt to frame you? Or are you just pissed that he went after you and now are letting that cloud your judgement?

I got 4 inventions The ghost trap, The Proton Pack, Ecto-containment unit, Ghost detector.
Last night I used the ghost detector on Jonty because I thought his math on the probability of Conzo disrupting a town role was wrong and maybe he was trying to help Conzo look better.
Jonty came back clean so there you have it.

So posses all four single use items and can use them yourself one per night? Indeed that does sound more like a JOAT functionality wise rather than an inventor actually, although it could simply be called an inventor for flavor. Can you confirm that exact powers of your items, or do you not know? And the detector that you used last night, is it a straight up cop investigation, or does it only detect a specific person? (some sort of ghost?)
Jonty, can you confirm that you would appear town under an investigation?

[BGtheBrain]

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[BGtheBrain]

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[Mr. Squirrel]

So posses all four single use items and can use them yourself one per night? Indeed that does sound more like a JOAT functionality wise rather than an inventor actually, although it could simply be called an inventor for flavor. Can you confirm that exact powers of your items, or do you not know? And the detector that you used last night, is it a straight up cop investigation, or does it only detect a specific person? (some sort of ghost?)

I've seen the 'inventor' role take two forms in the past:
1) a player is able to create 1-shot items and give them to players
2) a player is given a bunch of 1-shot items but doesn't know what they do.

Obviously, BG's claim falls in the latter category. It makes sense given the actor and abilities.

I still find BG fishy, but will unvote for now. He can claim his abilities over the next few 'days' and it can confirm or deny his role. Its still early in the game and we can always come back to him if we have evidence that his claim is false.

[edocsil]

I think BG should be lynched over Mr.S but at L-6 and with 6 days to deadline we need a definite target or we could end up with a no lynch

Can you tell me why?

Because Mr. Squirrel is better than you at this.

Spiesr, this question wasnt even directed at you so you probably should not answer like a douche bag. Not only was it rude but it makes no sense. Its comments like this that prevent new players from coming into games and lead to inactivity when they try.

It isn't offensive to want the best players alive at the endgame. It is the best way to go for a town win.

[zimmah]

well, BG has to be VERY creative to think of a roleclaim like this on his own.

therefore, as promised:

unvote vote squirrel

JOAT might prove somewhat usefull, even though it's a bit of a guess what each item really does. most JOATs do have 1 shot doctor, 1 shot cop, 1 shot watcher etc.

[safariguy5]

well, BG has to be VERY creative to think of a roleclaim like this on his own.

therefore, as promised:

unvote vote squirrel

JOAT might prove somewhat usefull, even though it's a bit of a guess what each item really does. most JOATs do have 1 shot doctor, 1 shot cop, 1 shot watcher etc.

True, but we're talking about an inventor role, who can guess at what his inventions do but ultimately don't know until he actually uses them. JOAT knows exactly what he can do. So inventor can be like a JOAT, but his abilities are not as clear.

I don't see how we can now turn around and then accuse Mr. S of bringing a case. Scumhunting doesn't automatically imply scum trying to hang townie if the case doesn't appear to work out. I thought the case was valid, and reading BG's responses (flaming doesn't help your case) I thought he seemed extremely defensive given the rather light pressure he was under. I don't think the wagon got to even 5 votes.

So now we have 3 claimed roles, and some people are pushing for a 4th claim. I think we're lucky so far in that none of the claimed roles are necessarily an extremely strong town PR, but we may be giving mafia more information than we're getting right now. I'm not advocating a no lynch right now, but I think we need to consider the possibility of a no lynch if we cannot find a satisfactory case (and I do not think Mr. Squirrel is a good case).

Also, if BG does flip mafia, we need to take a good look at drunk, who is basically aligning himself with BG.

And to answer an earlier comment from zimmah, knowing that flores visited sully doesn't automatically imply that Flores is a doc, as many roles have night actions. Roleblocker, busdriver, and bodyguard come to mind. Could also be a mafia power like framer too.

[edocsil]

well, BG has to be VERY creative to think of a roleclaim like this on his own.

therefore, as promised:

unvote vote squirrel

JOAT might prove somewhat usefull, even though it's a bit of a guess what each item really does. most JOATs do have 1 shot doctor, 1 shot cop, 1 shot watcher etc.

True, but we're talking about an inventor role, who can guess at what his inventions do but ultimately don't know until he actually uses them. JOAT knows exactly what he can do. So inventor can be like a JOAT, but his abilities are not as clear.

I don't see how we can now turn around and then accuse Mr. S of bringing a case. Scumhunting doesn't automatically imply scum trying to hang townie if the case doesn't appear to work out. I thought the case was valid, and reading BG's responses (flaming doesn't help your case) I thought he seemed extremely defensive given the rather light pressure he was under. I don't think the wagon got to even 5 votes.

So now we have 3 claimed roles, and some people are pushing for a 4th claim. I think we're lucky so far in that none of the claimed roles are necessarily an extremely strong town PR, but we may be giving mafia more information than we're getting right now. I'm not advocating a no lynch right now, but I think we need to consider the possibility of a no lynch if we cannot find a satisfactory case (and I do not think Mr. Squirrel is a good case).

Also, if BG does flip mafia, we need to take a good look at drunk, who is basically aligning himself with BG.

And to answer an earlier comment from zimmah, knowing that flores visited sully doesn't automatically imply that Flores is a doc, as many roles have night actions. Roleblocker, busdriver, and bodyguard come to mind. Could also be a mafia power like framer too.

Well there is at least one voice of reason here.

[drunkmonkey]

If Flores was a framer, jonty would have flipped scum for BG.

[BGtheBrain]

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[drunkmonkey]

EBWOP again: Flores visited Victor, not jonty. Don't know why I got that confused. Ignore my last post.

(fastposted)

[blakebowling]

Unvote

After reading Mr S's last post, I don't think as much that he was trying to frame BG, just that BG's actions aroused his suspicions (as they did mine). I still agree with keeping an eye on Mr S in the coming days though.

I'm half tempted to focus my attention on flores, but more likely than not we'd expose yet another town semi-PR to the scum. I know everyone hates no-lynches; but mass claims can sometimes be worse.

Also an unrelated comment; safari is always the voice of reason in games I've played in.

[zimmah]

well, BG has to be VERY creative to think of a roleclaim like this on his own.

therefore, as promised:

unvote vote squirrel

JOAT might prove somewhat usefull, even though it's a bit of a guess what each item really does. most JOATs do have 1 shot doctor, 1 shot cop, 1 shot watcher etc.

True, but we're talking about an inventor role, who can guess at what his inventions do but ultimately don't know until he actually uses them. JOAT knows exactly what he can do. So inventor can be like a JOAT, but his abilities are not as clear.

I don't see how we can now turn around and then accuse Mr. S of bringing a case. Scumhunting doesn't automatically imply scum trying to hang townie if the case doesn't appear to work out. I thought the case was valid, and reading BG's responses (flaming doesn't help your case) I thought he seemed extremely defensive given the rather light pressure he was under. I don't think the wagon got to even 5 votes.

So now we have 3 claimed roles, and some people are pushing for a 4th claim. I think we're lucky so far in that none of the claimed roles are necessarily an extremely strong town PR, but we may be giving mafia more information than we're getting right now. I'm not advocating a no lynch right now, but I think we need to consider the possibility of a no lynch if we cannot find a satisfactory case (and I do not think Mr. Squirrel is a good case).

Also, if BG does flip mafia, we need to take a good look at drunk, who is basically aligning himself with BG.

And to answer an earlier comment from zimmah, knowing that flores visited sully doesn't automatically imply that Flores is a doc, as many roles have night actions. Roleblocker, busdriver, and bodyguard come to mind. Could also be a mafia power like framer too.

point 1) i do know squirrel is not neccesarily scum. but i'm keeping my promise towards bg. that's why i vote squirrel.

point 2) i know flores may not be doc, i never said he was, but i'm saying that mafia will know if floris is mafia-aligned. and if mafia knows floris is not mafia-aligned, they will know floris is a town power-role, even though they will not know for sure what role exactly they will have. therefore either me or floris needs to be protected tonight, because one of us will more then likely be targeted. if not both of us.

[BGtheBrain]

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