M:tG Planeswalker mafia - Town wins!

[slowreactor]

Vote Count

Victor Sullivan (2)- Iliad, Rodion
Rodion (6) - DoomYoshi, edocsil, sheepofdumb, freezie, wildwilliam, shieldgenerator7 (L-2)
TA1LGUNN3R (1) - Victor Sullivan
DoomYoshi (1) - Iron Butterfly

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Also make sure you unvote if you already have a vote on the board. I'll let it go for today but from tomorrow on I won't count the vote unless you unvote.

[Iliad]

I was sure I voted rodion.

unvote vote Rodion.

I haven't even heard from Rodion since my post, don't see him exactly rushing to disprove my argument.

[Rodion]

I was sure I voted rodion.

unvote vote Rodion.

I haven't even heard from Rodion since my post, don't see him exactly rushing to disprove my argument.

Be careful what you wish for!

1)Rolefishing (obviously)
Revealing your mason partner is a very last ditch move to prove your innocence, not the scenario in which sg7/leitz was in. Leitz's bandwagon was mostly developed as joke wagon, but came close to lynching when due to his lurking. It was a fairly typical day case, half accidental and half pressure applied to create discussion. Shieldgenerator was not in a position where he had to give up his mason partner's identity, nor is that the typical procession. Usually if town still is skeptical of the claim, the mason partner also comes out and confirms the mason' claim. Before any discussion developed, while sg was still vulnerable Rodion outright intimidated him into giving up his mason

The only way of confirming your claim is by having your partner exposed, so I guess that will be necessary.

Rodion is well aware of sg's status as a new player and this is fairly textbook manipulation of an inexperienced player as well rolefishing.

Mistake 1 - you're forcing to say I "outright intimidated" Shield. My first posts when dealing with someone are usually calm and nice and I only get to actual threatening when they start denying my requests. Would I have eventually intimidated Shield in naming his partner? Undoubtedly. Did I outright intimidat him in the quote above? Certainly not.

Mistake 2 - obvious lie. Shield is older than me as a mafia player.

Going to sleep now. In case I'm still alive tomorrow, I'll be using numbers and logic to show why this post from Edoc is biased and wrong.

With more to be discussed and no deadline yet implemented, I guess you know what a speedlynch should mean in terms of D2 leads.

The first sentence to me clearly screams; guys, let me just have anotehr day or so to figure out how to explain all of this away.

The second is a usual attempt to indimidate the town into submission, by exaggerating the the negative effects of your lynch.

3 - Click on my profile. Check my country. Research my timezone. You should have no trouble concluding that it was really late when I posted that. The reason I didn't post earlier was not "needing time to come up with something", but "needing sleep". The idea of the numbers to refute Edocsil were already in my mind before I went to sleep (thus the post).

4 - You're wrong again. Town has no reason to cut discussion short by quickhammering if there is no pressing deadline. The more discussion, the merrier. I merely implied that a quickhammer should be interpreted as scummy because town would get no benefit out of it. This is why I voted VS earlier (for pressuring for that quickhammer after it was implied that it wasn't good for town). A great way of finding scum is seeing who quickhammers town power roles (I did that in Terminator, Edocsil did that in Actors) before everything that had to be said was in fact said. By saying what I said, I merely guaranteed that:
a) I was living to explain why the accusation was wrong
b) the quickhammer would be heavily scrutinized the next day, meaning we'd lynch scum or a really stupid townie (and it's not my fault if townies are stupid and put themselves into bad positions)

Rodion's justification is impressively mathematical but utterly irrelevant. It's Rodion attempting to again frame the discussion into a way which would be beneficial to him. Of course in a situation with 5 people, 2 of which scum, you would need to have the mason's claim. It's a LYLO for christ' sake and I'm cynical enough to believe that Rodion knew this and conveniently adopted the scenario. In Rodion's lynchpin 'logical' justification the outing of masons would be not be desirable but necessary instead as well as everyone's claims. In this scenario the town's fate would basically solely rest on whether this claim was true, and whether the town thought it was true.

5 - It works in other situations as well, I just picked the "magnifying glass" situation to make it more obvious.

2) Logical inconsistency
It is the nature of the game, especially on day 1, that town player screw up and give off scum tells. Based on the severity and consequences of this mistake as well as the experience and expected playing ability of the player, these may be excused or forgiven. But a very important thing to note is that Rodion has stuck to his guns and tried to argue that he did rolefish, but it was beneficial for town.

These reasons, or excuses depending on the way you look at it, I'm finding to be pretty flimsy. Most damning however is that it' clear that Rodion himself doesn' believe them, a major red flag.
Observe
1) Rodion has not decided a compromising road, rather agressively justifying outing a town role, fairly typical for his playing style
2) He has displayed an immense displeasure at claiming himself, rather antagonistically.

Way to play like a bunch of retards.

Oh, name's Venser, town jailor (jailkeeper).

For all his posturing and number crunching, Rodion is showing here that he, apparently a town player, understandably does not wish to have his role outed. Not so understandable is his continued insistence that outing edocsil was a positive action for town.
Rodion's justifications are flimsy with good reason, he's adopting them to try and save his own hide.

6 - This is not a logical inconsistency, it's a difference of perspective. By asking Shield to out his partner, I could be catching scum and doing town good. Why? Because I didn't have 100% certainty that Shield was town. Why should I be mad at claiming myself? Because I have 100% certainty I am town. This is also why I somehow relate to Edocsil's wrath.

This is Rodion trzing to subtly mentor his relatively inexperienced scumbuddy, Rodion offering direct advice to iron and not simple general advice. Also consider Rodion's adversial and agressive style adopted towards everyone, contrasted by his rather warm attitude.

7 - I'm usually agressive towards people that vote for me for dumb reasons. Also, you severely insult me by thinking I'd treat a scumbuddy in obvious contrast as to how I treat everyone else in the game.

Alright, you asked, I answered. Now it's time to admit you were wrong and say your vote still stands just because.

[Rodion]

I have to drive for 12 hours. I will read, catch up , and post tomorrow.

I'm still waiting.

Slow, please prod Wildwilliam.

[slowreactor]

Vote Count

Victor Sullivan (1)- Rodion
Rodion (7) - DoomYoshi, edocsil, sheepofdumb, freezie, wildwilliam, shieldgenerator7, Iliad (L-1)
TA1LGUNN3R (1) - Victor Sullivan
DoomYoshi (1) - Iron Butterfly

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Mass prod sent.

[edocsil]

Not going to quote that whole post Rodion. Long story short, I disagree with points 1 and 2, the others I more or less agree on.

Shield is older then you are here, but don't embarrass yourself by saying he is the better player. You have had a far more dedicated stay in mafia then him.

As to point one, yes you weren't holding him over the edge of a cliff and threatening to tear him limb from limb, but that isn't required. Intent and goals are what will often tell a scum, not the exact words.

[wildwilliam]

Iron butterfly sure would look a lot less scummy if a hammer came from there.

[Rodion]

Iron butterfly sure would look a lot less scummy if a hammer came from there.

No, he wouldn't. And I'm saying that considering both scenarios: town-Rodion and (the inexistant) mafia-Rodion.

You now promised to catch up and you failed to comply with your self-imposed deadline. You were prodded and not only you did not adress the things you had, but now you're forcing a quicklynch that will exempt you from adressing those things today, not to mention you're threatening Iron and saying something that is wrong regarding Iron getting less scummy.

This is just too many strikes coming from you and there's no benefit of doubt that can be applied to you anymore.

Unvote, vote wildwilliam.

Edocsil, I never said Shield was the better player. I only answered to Iliad's comments, which mentioned the words "new" and "inexperienced".

Keep in mind for the future:
if Rodion town, Iron mafia -> be suspicious of Freezie

[Victor Sullivan]

Eh, I think I'm ready for night.

unvote(?) vote Rodion

*yawns*

-Sully

[Rodion]

I'm sad I didn't bet money on it, because I knew the hammer would come from Victor.

Ok, last words.

William and Victor are the top 2 scummiest, Victor getting #1 after his latest post. There's a chance they're just stupid town players, but there are good odds of them being mafia as well. You can't trust those 2 to make good calls and they must die unless cop has guilties somewhere else.

Shield and Edocsil can wait for a couple of days, but you'll have to be smart about those 2 if they go too deep into the game with few mafia outed. On the other hand, if there are 3+ mafia killed and both Shield/Edocsil are alive, they're likely innocent as a 5-mafia team would be too much.

You must force inactives to come out, Sheep being the name that comes to my mind now. They need to be accountable for what they do and not posting goes against gauging accountability.

[Rodion]

Also check Drake and Rds as inactives you need to force to play the game.

While we are at that, you need to get Jgordon to express his opinions, as he is mostly asking questions and sitting on the fence, a position that can't really generate scumtells if he is actually scum. He appears to be town, though.

[Victor Sullivan]

Look, I gave you a chance to make your claims, and I still felt you were town, even when I voted for you (it's true), but it really is time for night, and if it wasn't by my hand, we'd wait another day or two before someone else did. You dug yourself too deep to be brought back.

-Sully

[jgordon1111]

True rodion,the last couple of days i have been just reading after asking a few noob questions,that the answers got contradicted from one player to the next. you pointed out four of us by my count in your post that could or could not be scum,and before i posted i went back to see what the others had said in their posts. it's a mess, I believe for the most part you might be town,but I cant see what good it is to lynch someone whom others believe might be town.Anyone I would like to know from those that believe rodion might be town what is the upside of lynching him before I vote,those of you that believe he is scum i know your reasons,Iron I know your reasons for not wanting to lynch him i think.But like victor for instance you have played more than my once, is there an upside to this. I would appreciate it thank you

[edocsil]

Looks like he was town. That is a shame but it really wasn't going to happen any other way.

[Rodion]

True rodion,the last couple of days i have been just reading after asking a few noob questions,that the answers got contradicted from one player to the next. you pointed out four of us by my count in your post that could or could not be scum,and before i posted i went back to see what the others had said in their posts. it's a mess, I believe for the most part you might be town,but I cant see what good it is to lynch someone whom others believe might be town.Anyone I would like to know from those that believe rodion might be town what is the upside of lynching him before I vote,those of you that believe he is scum i know your reasons,Iron I know your reasons for not wanting to lynch him i think.But like victor for instance you have played more than my once, is there an upside to this. I would appreciate it thank you

There is no upside, it just so happens that Victor is an incredibly stupid player. He botched the strongest town claim in Team CC (Andy Dufresne) and got lynched. He botched his doctor claim in Game of Thrones and got lynched. He N1 vigged a player (who happened to be the cop) because Victor did not pay attention in Actors Mafia and got lynched because people thought he was a SK. Now he claims to hammer someone he believes to be town in this game.

Just kill him. Either you kill scum or you kill a townie that would bring no upside to the game.

[slowreactor]

Vote Count

Victor Sullivan (1)- Rodion
Rodion (8) - DoomYoshi, edocsil, sheepofdumb, freezie, wildwilliam, shieldgenerator7, Iliad, Victor Sullivan (LYNCHED)
TA1LGUNN3R (1) - Victor Sullivan
DoomYoshi (1) - Iron Butterfly

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Rodion has been lynched. I will post the scene later tonight. You may still discuss until I post the scene.

[pancakemix]

Look, I gave you a chance to make your claims, and I still felt you were town, even when I voted for you (it's true), but it really is time for night.

WHAT?!

[edocsil]

Look, I gave you a chance to make your claims, and I still felt you were town, even when I voted for you (it's true), but it really is time for night.

WHAT?!

Yeah, frustrating right?

[slowreactor]

While the planeswalkers are all powerful in their own right, they were all unfamiliar with this new realm. They knew, however, that a great evil existed among them. One among them, Venser, seemed to be quite curious about his fellow planeswalkers. He seemed to be asking a lot of questions, about their identities, their origins, and even their powers.

Perhaps because he was asking too many questions, the other planeswalkers became wary of Venser. They became afraid and suspicious, and eventually decided to get rid of him. Venser found out, and tried to planeswalk out of this realm, but was killed before he could get a chance to. As he lay dying, he cried out to his homeland of Urborg, wishing that it could be restored once again.

Rodion - Venser, town jailor, has been lynched!

It is now nighttime. Anyone with night actions will now have 72 hours to send them in. BEGIN NIGHT!

[wildwilliam]

I'm sad I didn't bet money on it, because I knew the hammer would come from Victor.

Ok, last words.

William and Victor are the top 2 scummiest, Victor getting #1 after his latest post. There's a chance they're just stupid town players, but there are good odds of them being mafia as well. You can't trust those 2 to make good calls and they must die unless cop has guilties somewhere else.

Shield and Edocsil can wait for a couple of days, but you'll have to be smart about those 2 if they go too deep into the game with few mafia outed. On the other hand, if there are 3+ mafia killed and both Shield/Edocsil are alive, they're likely innocent as a 5-mafia team would be too much.

You must force inactives to come out, Sheep being the name that comes to my mind now. They need to be accountable for what they do and not posting goes against gauging accountability.

If you weren't a dick, and didn't completely turn peoples words around, you would probably still be alive.

[slowreactor]

I'm sad I didn't bet money on it, because I knew the hammer would come from Victor.

Ok, last words.

William and Victor are the top 2 scummiest, Victor getting #1 after his latest post. There's a chance they're just stupid town players, but there are good odds of them being mafia as well. You can't trust those 2 to make good calls and they must die unless cop has guilties somewhere else.

Shield and Edocsil can wait for a couple of days, but you'll have to be smart about those 2 if they go too deep into the game with few mafia outed. On the other hand, if there are 3+ mafia killed and both Shield/Edocsil are alive, they're likely innocent as a 5-mafia team would be too much.

You must force inactives to come out, Sheep being the name that comes to my mind now. They need to be accountable for what they do and not posting goes against gauging accountability.

If you weren't a dick, and didn't completely turn peoples words around, you would probably still be alive.

No talking after the scene please.

[slowreactor]

All the night actions have been received. I will tally up all the information, and then post the scenes as well as send out corresponding PM's later today.

[slowreactor]

Jace knew that there was something evil stirring in the Multiverse. Although he had his organization, the Infinite Consortium, to run, he knew he had to take action: to use his powers of telepathy to find the truth behind this evil. As he was preparing his last items for his travels, he suddenly felt a darkness behind him. It seemed so familiar, yet so strange and powerful. He tried to turn, but he felt his life force disappearing in front of him, and only managed to catch a glimpse of his killer before he collapsed on the floor of his office.

Click image to enlarge.

Jace Beleren (DoomYoshi, town cop) has been killed!

Ajani had seen his family slain in front of him, and he was determined to find his killer and destroy those who inflicted pain and suffering on to him. Little did he know, however, he would never get the chance to. As the day came, the other planeswalkers found him dead, the terror on his face apparent.

Click image to enlarge.

Ajani Goldmane (TA1LGUNN3R, vengeful townie) has been killed!

Sarkhan was pleased. He had been sent on a very important mission: to cause mayhem for the other planeswalkers. Seeing as this was his very first night, he was naturally eager to perform especially well. As he approached his assigned task, he noticed some strange energies, which prompted him to look closer. The closer he got, however, the more unnerving he became: something was not right. He tried to turn and run, only to be engulfed in a pillar of flame.

Click image to enlarge.

Sarkhan Vol(freezie, mafia roleblocker) has been killed!


It is now DAY 2.

[slowreactor]

Also, please note that not everyone might have received a PM. You only received one if there was something of importance in it.

[Victor Sullivan]

Nooooo!!!!

This sucks

-Sully