Actors Mafia Endgame: Town Wins

[zimmah]

Logic not volume should be your way of convincing people you're not mafia

i am using both logic and volume, but mostly because i need volume because most of you are twisitng my words.

This is more or less a moot point because you've already claimed and I'm buying the claim. The problem is that I cannot extrapolate who might be scum on your wagon because I think reasonable townies easily had enough reason to bandwagon you. Saying there's scum on your wagon is probably true, but it doesn't help us find out which players are mafia.

And you repeatedly said no lynching Day 2 was bad, yet you seemed extremely put off when people decided making you the day 2 target. I mean, we need information, and pulling it out of anyone is progress in my book. If you're town, getting pressured shouldn't make you nervous, because you know that your claim would be solid and that you won't have to make up lies about your role or character or night actions. We catch mafia through their lies, and those tend to take a roleclaim to catch.

well, it made me nervous because i didn't want to claim because:

1) often claims ar enot believed either way, so i'd get lynched no matter what
2) the information i have at this point of time is not really helpfull to town, and trackers/watchers are usually much more usefull endgame, because at that time you have a better understanding of the roles peoples might still have.
3) i will probably not make it endgame, since now i'm more then likely a nightkill target. so my use is now only limited.

i normally don't have problems with revealing my role, but revealing power roles in early days is quite sad, and should be avoided as long as possible.

[safariguy5]

Not to detract from the usefulness of a tracker role, but a sane cop and a doctor are the strongest power roles. Trackers can be useful, but I do not think they are high on a mafia kill list. I would argue watchers are more useful because it's easier to ID who made the kill (i.e. is mafia) if the person you watched ends up dying. Tracker can do the same thing, but you have to get more lucky in that you happen the track the mafia goon who was picked to do the nightkill. So will you be killed by mafia? Maybe, but again, I don't think that your role is as valuable as the sane cop was or a doctor is.

[zimmah]

Not to detract from the usefulness of a tracker role, but a sane cop and a doctor are the strongest power roles. Trackers can be useful, but I do not think they are high on a mafia kill list. I would argue watchers are more useful because it's easier to ID who made the kill (i.e. is mafia) if the person you watched ends up dying. Tracker can do the same thing, but you have to get more lucky in that you happen the track the mafia goon who was picked to do the nightkill. So will you be killed by mafia? Maybe, but again, I don't think that your role is as valuable as the sane cop was or a doctor is.

ok, now lets asume victor was a target last night, and since he didn't die, mafia now knows victor was also targeted by flores, that makes mafia think flores is a doc. then we might have lost the doc and the cop.

i hope this is not true though.

[BGtheBrain]

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[Mr. Squirrel]

Mr S you act like I was wanting to lynch a proven townie(lynch mongering). I was weighing the pros and cons of lynching someone.

You were not "weighing the pros and cons of lynching someone." You were trying to get people to gang up on the new guy who, despite having a rock solid claim, you felt needed to be lynched. Thats not weighing the pros and cons, thats just being aggressive and scummy.

As for the OMGUS, blake voted you and you turned right around and started attacking him. Thats the definition of OMGUS. In your first post you didn't even address the grievances against you (simply accused him) and in your second you provide a weak defense.

I could also bring up what blake pointed out, which is that our death last night was someone who was accusing you the day before. While it does create a WIFOM situation, with your record of attacking those who attack you I wouldn't put it past you to try to kill off your accusers at night.

You are using information we gained AFTER my vote to say my voting was scummy. It is clear as day why I voted for BB and anyone who tries to say I didnt state my reasoning is folling themselves. Just because something isnt in the same post doesnt mean anything. My reasoning and my vote were 5 minutes apart.

For the record, I am not attacking your reasons whatsoever. I agree there was a case there, but the way you went about handling it was scummy. Even scum can create cases against townies.

[BGtheBrain]

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[drunkmonkey]

BG voted blake at the end of D1, so how is it OMGUS when he picks up the case again on D2? Shouldn't blake be the one accused of OMGUS, since his first D2 post after an inactive D1 was to vote for BG?

Also, what does this mean?

You were trying to get people to gang up on the new guy who, despite having a rock solid claim, you felt needed to be lynched.

When did BG ever try to lynch someone who had claimed?

[new guy1]

again, no idea what OMGUS means... can somebody help? ... also, i agree with monkey's case, why would he not go straight back to the claim he made on d1, seems logical to me

[BGtheBrain]

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[drunkmonkey]

EBWOP: Ok, I went back and found Mr.S's initial post on page 18, where he shows that BG tried to convince us to kill the jailkeeper. I don't feel it was a "rock solid claim", and I also feel you took a bit of the posts out of context. BG didn't seem to believe the claim, and was weighing the risk/reward of a lynch. Quoting only parts of his posts to make it look like he said "kill the townie" is a bit suspicious.

fastposted x2: newguy, read Rules and Terms of Mafia

[new guy1]

thank you drunk, i will bookmark that when i get home

[drunkmonkey]

thank you drunk, i will bookmark that when i get home

It's one of the stickied posts at the top of the Mafia Games forum. Take a look at all of them.

[new guy1]

sounds good to me ... well, gotta get off the school computer, going to my next class. talk to you guys in around 5-7 hours

[zimmah]

aside from BG and Squirrel fighting with each other, is there anything else going on?

since it's a bit hard to choose between BG and squirrel.

[jonty125]

I think BG should be lynched over Mr.S but at L-6 and with 6 days to deadline we need a definite target or we could end up with a no lynch

[BGtheBrain]

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[strike wolf]

Vote Count

Bgthebrain (3)-Edoc, Mr. Squirrel, safariguy
blake
Zimmah (2)-rodion, victor sullivan
Mr. Squirrel
Jonty (1)-Zimmah
drunkmonkey
rodion
edocsil
victor sullivan
newguy
spiesr
mob deadly
pancakemix
flores des mal
safariguy
conzocool

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Activity has been good so I'll extend the deadline by 2 days (a week from now). Keep it up.

[zimmah]

I think BG should be lynched over Mr.S but at L-6 and with 6 days to deadline we need a definite target or we could end up with a no lynch

Can you tell me why?

well, he kinda said it allready. he thinks you're a better target because you allready have 3 votes against you, and squirrel has no votes against him. i don't particary think this reasoning is good, and mine is probably not any better, but since there's hardly anything else....

don't feel bad but i think we kinda need to move forward so i'm going to put some pressure on you.

unvote vote BG

i'd like to hear a bit more about your role in this game.

[BGtheBrain]

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[jonty125]

Well generally the vote count and a little bit on the use of a jailkeeper on D1.

[blakebowling]

I don't have a lot of time (but I felt I needed to post).

Between BG and Mr S, there is a good chance one of them is scum (although it is possible that neither is).

Vote BG to add some pressure.

Also BG, if that situation does arise. I'll continue the case on Mr S the best I can with my limited time.

[zimmah]

I don't have a lot of time (but I felt I needed to post).

Between BG and Mr S, there is a good chance one of them is scum (although it is possible that neither is).

Vote BG to add some pressure.

Also BG, if that situation does arise. I'll continue the case on Mr S the best I can with my limited time.

agreed.

[BGtheBrain]

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[Mr. Squirrel]

As for the OMGUS, blake voted you and you turned right around and started attacking him.

Bullshit, again with the wording. Show me where I attacked him.

Sigh.... Fine. Let me outline the way this happened for people who can't look back in the thread

vote blakebowling

Unvote Vote BG for complete lack of reasoning in a placed vote.

Anyhow, this is where I would like to start. This did absolutely nothing to help the town, it was not rationalized and it served no purpose but to distract from the Conzo case that had been presented.

Edocsil brings up a point against BG. Its weak, but its a lead nonetheless. He votes a couple posts later. Page 15

I'll Vote BG to help add some pressure.

Blake adds himself to form a small wagon. It looks like the criticism of BG is gaining support. (Bottom of Page 15)

BG responds with:

So Blake, where were you on D1? You know whats not helpful? A guy who votes himself and disappers....

Rather than address the case on himself, he decides to cast suspicion on the person voting for him. (I won't bother providing a link for this one since I quoted the post in full)

A little later, this is the defense he provides for his case:

The deadline was coming and there were alot of inactives. After Conzo's claim, I believed him and as stated we needed someone. I clearly pointed out you were too quiet (saying nothing but voting yourself).

He conveniently ignores the fact that he was still pushing for conzo's lynch after his claim. Instead, he words it so that he sounded like he was trying to look out for town and chase new leads. (Personally, I don't think voting inactives is chasing leads, but thats my opinion.) Full post here

A few posts later, he lashes out at edoc (the one who initially cast suspicion on him):

Wait, Edoc I already answered this accusation D1.
Whats your problem here with my BB vote? Its like your making shit up to try to make me look scummy... Why ignore my response and then bring the issue up (which I answered) as reasoning to "pressure" me.

here

And now, when I present my case on him, he attacks me too (I don't think I need to present any quotes for this claim). So now he is 3 for 3 on OMGUS against people who accuse him. That is why I made this accusation:

with your record of attacking those who attack you I wouldn't put it past you to try to kill off your accusers at night.

WTF does this mean? My record? More nonsense. In mafia at some point almost everyone accuses everyone. This argument is ridiculous. So if anyone FOS me or argues with me anf they die, you "wouldnt put it past me to try to kill of my accusers." Seriosly, the others may not see it, but I see through you.

By "your record" I was meaning your multiple OMGUS actions in this game. After anyone accuses you, you get defensive and accuse them of "making shit up". Since I am not the first to criticize your actions in this game, there obviously is something there. I don't think all three of us would just be blowing smoke out our asses. Plus Safariguy (another experienced player) has shown support of your scumminess. Your constant insistence that you are completely innocent and that none of us have anything on you is laughable really.

Im dead and shown town, I want Mr S lynched for his blatant embellishments and lies regarding things I said, when I said them, and how I said them.

If I make embellishments or lies about your posts, then point them out and let the town decide what your actual intentions were. I will admit that I often phrase things very carefully to get my point across and sometimes my language gets very colorful, but I definitely do not lie or falsify evidence. For this reason I have provided links to the full posts you made in this post. Anyone can go back and look at what you said. Criticize my logic all you want, but don't think that attacking my choice of words counts as a defense.

If you can prove your innocence or if you die and come up town, then I will gladly take the flak from this. Anyone who looks at my case will see that my grievances against you are perfectly justified. Is it the strongest case ever? No, definitely not. But I'm getting super strong scum vibes from you regardless and that is why I am hounding you so much. I'm fully prepared to answer for any accusations against me.

[MoB Deadly]

Okay well.... I guess we have to pick a side here to make progress..... I don't necessarily mind voting for BG but I am definitely on his side right now. BG was NOT voting to lynch a claimed townie in that way, like I said earlier we were trying to create a debate how solid of a claim conzocool had, and what were the odds that he is lying. I think this argument has been fabricated into thinking he wanted a lynch either way. So right now...

unvote vote Mr. Squirrel I would rather a claim from him than BG


Fast posted by Mr Squirrel... dont have time to read it right now... Will change vote later, if I agree with it