Rock N' Roll Mafia 3/14 Endgame: Town Wins

[new guy1]

If nobody is willing to pick a side, this confrontation won't settle.

If nobody can pick a side, then the evidence for both cases is too close of a call to make. Personally, the only deciding factor I can come up with is that your case was a OMGUS case, but even then there are posts to even it back out to a draw. If I get time, Ill go back and read into your posts and both cases and try to find something I didnt find before.

[jonty125]

vote thechuck51 still can't shake off my gut feeling, and the day needs to go somewhere.

[strike wolf]

Vote Count

TheChuck51 (2)-Doomyoshi, Jonty
Doomyoshi

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Dead line is next Friday.

[DoomYoshi]

If nobody is willing to pick a side, this confrontation won't settle.

If nobody can pick a side, then the evidence for both cases is too close of a call to make. Personally, the only deciding factor I can come up with is that your case was a OMGUS case, but even then there are posts to even it back out to a draw. If I get time, Ill go back and read into your posts and both cases and try to find something I didnt find before.

So you don't believe I'm a mason?

[DoomYoshi]

Or is it that you believe us both to be town? I don't understand what you are getting at, new guy.

[StubbsKVM]

My main problem is the Masons. On mafiascum, Masons are always town.
Here, this is not the case, it was said.

So I'm completely confused about it.

Maybe the mod could clear this up for me?

[DoomYoshi]

I've never seen a non-town mason as far as I can recall. I think there was one once, but I can't remember the game.

I've also never seen scum fakeclaim mason.

[StubbsKVM]

I've never seen a non-town mason as far as I can recall. I think there was one once, but I can't remember the game.

I've also never seen scum fakeclaim mason.

Same here, but I would feel a whole lot better about it if I knew for sure.

[dazza2008]

I believe the mason claims. No reason not to. Its a really bad fakeclaim cos if 1 dies the other is screwed. I have seen 1 be scum in the past but I can't see that fit the flavour here really.

I don't see much on the case on chuck but we need to go somewhere so i will vote for pressure. Vote chuck

fastposted. The only way we would know for sure is to lynch them both. Is that your suggestion? That would be bad if they both are town which I reckon would be the case.

[new guy1]

I've never seen a non-town mason as far as I can recall. I think there was one once, but I can't remember the game.

I've also never seen scum fakeclaim mason.

I cant remember what game it was, but I know that there was a mafia-town mason in one game, and I know I have never seen mafia fakeclaim mason. Its mostly the fact that I am always indecisive in earlier days, unless there is just a case that highly appeals to my gut feelings or I have actions to prove scum. That being said, in this case it is mostly that I think you're both town, you because you're claiming mason, and chuck mostly because I see the posts as evidence you provided to not really be enough to warrant a claim... Then again, it is pretty much the only case we have for today. Again, Ill read back on it whenever I get the time.

Fastposted.- Agreed with dazza's fastpost. I dont agree on lynching DY.

[StubbsKVM]

I believe the mason claims. No reason not to. Its a really bad fakeclaim cos if 1 dies the other is screwed. I have seen 1 be scum in the past but I can't see that fit the flavour here really.

I don't see much on the case on chuck but we need to go somewhere so i will vote for pressure. Vote chuck

fastposted. The only way we would know for sure is to lynch them both. Is that your suggestion? That would be bad if they both are town which I reckon would be the case.

No. Which is why I was asking the mod if Masons are always town.

[dazza2008]

I can't see the mod confirming it for you bud. If he does ask him who is town and who is scum.

[Iron Butterfly]

Sully, who is no longer with CC, had some crazy games. He really did not care if the game was balanced as long as it was fun. He had a game with masons who opposing alignments, which helped manipulate the town vote. that was the exception rather then the rule. I cant say i have played in a lot of games with masons but they have always been Town.

I do not see how Doom and Comm9 are not who they say. It would be to complicated and needless for Comm to false claim a mason plus I do not believe DOOM would latch on a nd play along if he were indeed mafia. If one goes they both go.

What I do not like is that to many folk have been absent from the game and I have always been suspicious of those laying low. If we had more people participating we would not be at the standstill that we are.

I will not vote Chuck just to vote someone, which seems to be why people are voting. THAT I find scummy.

[thechuck51]

Why didn't you say any of this until now? You can't accuse me of holding back in the next paragraph but then turn around and reveal all this stuff that you have been holding back.
--------
I thought we found an SK... better vote at the time.

Who cares if he didn't use blue? Everyone knows that blue is the town colour, and when skillfusniper died, everyone knew that the town colour is blue. It's not like on day 1 when you catch someone with that argument.

None of it occured to me until now so I wasn't holding anything back.

Even if you thought kgb was a better vote why wouldn't you have called me out for being scummy yesterday? Why wait until after I said I wasn't ruling you out as scum to bring it up?

Regarding the blue/orange thing. kgb is a new player and I figured he just copied his color from his PM and since it wasn't blue I assumed he had slipped.

NOw I'd appreciate if you clarify how I was should have been able to figure out your role.

I've never seen a non-town mason as far as I can recall. I think there was one once, but I can't remember the game.

I've also never seen scum fakeclaim mason.

Why not say this yesterday when stubbs asked about masons being town. Instead you said:

It is possible for one to be scum.

If you've never seen one (or actually you have you just don't remember??) why would you say it's possible but not mention you've never seen it? Maybe you thought comm was going to get lynched and wanted to fall back on one of the masons being scum. And now that comm isn't in danger of getting lynched you are implying that mason = auto townie.

And you've never seen scum fakeclaim mason. I'm sorry if I don't trust you enough to let your clear yourself as town.

Are you both confirmed as town to each other? I just ask because I have played games where 1 mason was scum.

As far as I'm concerned, I've been told we're both town, but it is possible.

what exactly does this mean? have you been told you are both town or not? if you have been, how is it possible that the other could be scum? Unless, of course, you and doom are fakeclaiming.

The reason why I've not mentioned my partner's name is because he's likely to be targeted tonight if I die, thus I see no reason to reveal him. If he will feel that he has to reveal himself, I can't do anything about it, but at least for now, I will not reveal him. Furthermore, I disagree that it's unconfirmed, because if someone claims, it will either be him or he will be counterclaimed and you know at least 1 of those 2 are scum. I will come up as Paul Simon (Mason) or something like that, thus you will know that there's an Art Garfunkel, who is (95%) a town mason.

you are contradicting yourself. If you aren't sure your "mason" partner is town, how can you say that he is confirmed?

[ghostly447]

Wow. I am going to be completely honest, good case chuck. I was kind of thinking on the comm9 post when I read through, but didnt think anything of it because mason was a pretty solid claim, but now that I come back to it, As far as your concerned youve been told your both town but its possible? No its not. That would be called a mod mistake if he said you were both town and one turned mafia. With our experience, I KNOW you are better than that as far as knowing what your role pm is saying. This is all pretty fishy but I will wait for doom/comm to respond so I dont jump the gun on anything. I know, you call it indecisive, I call it letting a case build.

Adam

[Commander9]

Apologies about the inactivity. I'm nearly done moving, so I do plan to re-read and respond sometime after Monday.

[ghostly447]

In the meantime, can we get a prod? I know I am not the most active, but I am currently trying.

Adam

[Nebuchadnezer]

Okay, I'm back from my vacation...and it seems that there has not been much headway made.

I can't really go against the Masons at this point. Mason seems to be a pretty solid claim, and considering it's Simon and Garfunkel, it would be the cleverest fake claim I've seen. Could it be fake? Yes...i give it about a 1% chance of being fake.

Now, chuck is pushing pretty hard to discredit the Mason claim. He makes some decent points, but I still can't believe it's a fake claim. Here's what doesn't sit right with me on Chuck's posts...

Night 1 End Scene

The day had been long and he was getting anxious. Finally it was night and with the numbers intact, he felt that the numbers needed to be thinned a bit. He found his target exiting the bar a little bit after the rest had already left and head down an isolated alley. "Excellent" The stalker thought and pulled out his knife. He reached forward, the target turned and then...nothing. Neither really knew what happened just that both the stalker and his victim left the alley unharmed. Grumbling the man turned and walked back. He was sure he heard the target scream before it had happened so the stalker picked up his knife and left before the town could gather.

Elsewhere across town, another person was out looking for vengeance. They had watched with interest and had picked out what they thought was a good target. So with the magnum in tow, they followed their target through the streets until finally they came to what seemed to be a good spot. Wasting no time, they pulled out the gun and clicked the safety back as the chamber turned, a thought rushed through their head, something about the action reminding them of turning on an amplifier and that's when they saw her. She pushed their target out of the way just as the shot was fired and fell back when they were hit. The target went to her side and then looked up but could not see the shooter in the dark. Had they gotten away so quickly?

Skillfusniper-Janis Joplin-Town Bodyguard has been killed.

Day 2 begins.

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

After Night 1, I was thinking that the orange was the SK, and that he/she was stopped.

I thought the blue was mafia. I wanted to wait to reveal my watching, to see if KGB interacted with anyone strangely, thus giving away his mafia buddies...however, he was pretty quiet, so I just posted my info so as to not have us not aiming blindly for a lynch. But Chuck says...

vote KGB

Based on my town role being blue and his role being orange I don't believe his claim and I think he is the SK.

How is Chuck coming to the "I think he is the SK" argument, when KGB should have been mafia according to the scene? (mafia use guns, SKs use knives...I know, I got burned playing dumb by pretending NOT to know this once...) Not too mention his lame color argument as his only reason for voting...NOT the fact that I watched KGB and Skill visit Commander.

That was all before we have the N2 scene with the killer using a knife again, and no mention of a second attempt to kill someone...which leads me to believe that there is no second killer, as there should have been a third attempt on N1, if there was an SK, and thus mafia in this game are using a knife.

Which brings me back to Chuck's post saying that "I think he is the SK." Why SK when the N1 scene pointed to KGB as a mafia killer?

Vote Chuck

[spiesr]

I would consider the immediately apparent Orange = SK Blue = Town to be sufficient to override Gun = Scum Knife = SK.

[StubbsKVM]

That is a good case indeed.

I'd like to see some response to that.

[jonty125]

Gun = Scum Knife = SK.

TBH, I hardly consider this as evidence in most games. As a mod, I've had mafia use knives, CPU monitors, and a variety of other tools, so, that logic has to be taken with a pinch of salt.

A bit more relevant to this game, claim time chuck.

[spiesr]

Gun = Scum Knife = SK.

TBH, I hardly consider this as evidence in most games. As a mod, I've had mafia use knives, CPU monitors, and a variety of other tools, so, that logic has to be taken with a pinch of salt.

A bit more relevant to this game, claim time chuck.

My point was that that seeing KGB post his claim in the usual third party/SK color looked more significant that the weapons used in the scene, so that Chuck thinking he might be an SK is something that doesn't bother me.

[jonty125]

Gun = Scum Knife = SK.

TBH, I hardly consider this as evidence in most games. As a mod, I've had mafia use knives, CPU monitors, and a variety of other tools, so, that logic has to be taken with a pinch of salt.

A bit more relevant to this game, claim time chuck.

My point was that that seeing KGB post his claim in the usual third party/SK color looked more significant that the weapons used in the scene, so that Chuck thinking he might be an SK is something that doesn't bother me.

I agree with that, and I probably should of put that in my first post sorry for any confusion.

[thechuck51]

Okay, I'm back from my vacation...and it seems that there has not been much headway made.

I can't really go against the Masons at this point. Mason seems to be a pretty solid claim, and considering it's Simon and Garfunkel, it would be the cleverest fake claim I've seen. Could it be fake? Yes...i give it about a 1% chance of being fake.

Now, chuck is pushing pretty hard to discredit the Mason claim. He makes some decent points, but I still can't believe it's a fake claim.

All I said was I wasn't ruling them out and I've posted why they can't be ruled out.

How is Chuck coming to the "I think he is the SK" argument, when KGB should have been mafia according to the scene? (mafia use guns, SKs use knives...I know, I got burned playing dumb by pretending NOT to know this once...) Not too mention his lame color argument as his only reason for voting...NOT the fact that I watched KGB and Skill visit Commander.

That was all before we have the N2 scene with the killer using a knife again, and no mention of a second attempt to kill someone...which leads me to believe that there is no second killer, as there should have been a third attempt on N1, if there was an SK, and thus mafia in this game are using a knife.

Which brings me back to Chuck's post saying that "I think he is the SK." Why SK when the N1 scene pointed to KGB as a mafia killer?

I wasn't paying as much attention as I should have been to this game and the color thing stuck out at me. I didn't read the scene carefully so I missed the distinction of which killer kgb was.

A bit more relevant to this game, claim time chuck.

I'm not going to claim yet, by my count I'm only at L-2. I would like to doom and comm to answer the questions I had of them before I worry about claiming anything.

[dazza2008]

L-2 is claim time pal. L-1 is too risky as a player could be hated.