The Wild Beyond the Walls Mafia Spirits Wins!

[swang918]

Also, with this malevolent spirit thing for sonic, looks like he may be able to vote after death? If so we need to be aware, L-2 may be like L-1, etc

[Devante]

First off, I had some stuff in RL take precedence last week which barely left me able to stay caught up on games much less keep track of the updating here with the posts. The last day also moved fairly fast once the voting got underway and lynch happened quickly. I need to catch up on some of this as I want to look over Sonics posts in more detail since he's the know wolf so far. And then I'll post my thoughts on it

[Devante]

I've read up. First of all, DDS as much as I want to focus on you for voting on me I don't think your scum so I'll refrain since I've been missing in action due to RL stuff. But you suck regardless. Vot unfortunately is out who I personally didn't read as scum and was extremely active which is good all around. Moving onto what's occurred here.

I'll start with Sonic - I can see the hard push for no Lynch from him once that band wagon started. However this sticks out to me: "So 2 things: the city group has problems with the village group and who-ever killed Loose was a city dweller. That clears Pixar from being the Loose killer." So the Pix defending seems odd. And looking at Pixs posts and responses he reads as scum right now

Fusi - Looked up that recommend link on roles. very helpful. but also overwhelming. as a new player won't dive into it too much as there are so many possible roles available. As of right now I'm leaning he's town but think he's a good enough player to fool things and play well as scum. But for now don't think so.

swang918 - right now reading town. he knows how to play the game so like fusi could be playing us but right now i dont see it.

Traf - Right now leaning town. Don't see anything of concern and seems to be doing his over analytical self. but wouldn't rule him out just yet

Charle - Not sure either way yet. few posts and just chumming along so far. Although the hard push makes me think leaning scum

DDS - Same as Charle. Although seems to only jump in when tensions are high. But again no real tell yet. But leaning town

Ewe - Seldom spoken munch like he did as a wolf first game. then not much comments except to vote vot. Again for now not sure but would say based on posts leaning scum.

King - So far I believe the claims and as far as I can tell this would be the seer role I had. So I believe him to be town

However this is interesting: "@EVERYBODY: If/when I die, and you find out I'm town, go back and take another look at Fusi and DDS's votes for me. Cause they're either 'scum'... or 'dumb'.
But whatever the heck you do, lynch Kingm today because he is a total liar!!!"

Pix - Given the posts and everything so far from him, i'm leaning on being scum, especially with the last minute vote at L1.

Here's what I don't understand so far. Vot turned out to be bodyguard and town so why was he lynched, Kings claim? I don't understand the framer aspect, can they make us see or believe something else? if so is it possible king is telling the truth and we are being mislead?

So right now here is where I see it. King is scum unless it is possible he is being "framed". Otherwise I see Charle, Ewe, DDS and Pix as possible scum based on posts and votes. More so leaning Pix I think right now but Charle not far.

I am town and have a very weak role. However it could help King if he is playing the Seer type role. I can use it on him if we agree which should help him pending on what other roles are around, like i said it's a weak one.

Anyways there's my thoughts so far. Don't think I missed anyone but if I did either i glanced over or there's been no posts for several pages

I have to go back maybe to see why vot was very on king for lynching.

[Devante]

I think this is the post:

"Yeah, let just say I saw both Votanic and LC together N1, and I guess there is probably some scenario that does not have Votanic involved in the murder, but I find it much more likely that Votanic is scum and killed LC."

That triggered going after Vot, am I right? So the sighting caused the bandwagon then

Also going back I realized Traf died which is unfortunate. We are down a number of town but sonic gone is good too although I can't tell if gone for good but strike said eliminated so i assume so.

Unless the whole king thing can be explained as vot was town i'm leaning voting him, otherwise ewe, charle or pix. Anyways that's where I stand currently

[Kingm]

I've read up. First of all, DDS as much as I want to focus on you for voting on me I don't think your scum so I'll refrain since I've been missing in action due to RL stuff. But you suck regardless. Vot unfortunately is out who I personally didn't read as scum and was extremely active which is good all around. Moving onto what's occurred here.

I'll start with Sonic - I can see the hard push for no Lynch from him once that band wagon started. However this sticks out to me: "So 2 things: the city group has problems with the village group and who-ever killed Loose was a city dweller. That clears Pixar from being the Loose killer." So the Pix defending seems odd. And looking at Pixs posts and responses he reads as scum right now

Fusi - Looked up that recommend link on roles. very helpful. but also overwhelming. as a new player won't dive into it too much as there are so many possible roles available. As of right now I'm leaning he's town but think he's a good enough player to fool things and play well as scum. But for now don't think so.

swang918 - right now reading town. he knows how to play the game so like fusi could be playing us but right now i dont see it.

Traf - Right now leaning town. Don't see anything of concern and seems to be doing his over analytical self. but wouldn't rule him out just yet

Charle - Not sure either way yet. few posts and just chumming along so far. Although the hard push makes me think leaning scum

DDS - Same as Charle. Although seems to only jump in when tensions are high. But again no real tell yet. But leaning town

Ewe - Seldom spoken munch like he did as a wolf first game. then not much comments except to vote vot. Again for now not sure but would say based on posts leaning scum.

King - So far I believe the claims and as far as I can tell this would be the seer role I had. So I believe him to be town

However this is interesting: "@EVERYBODY: If/when I die, and you find out I'm town, go back and take another look at Fusi and DDS's votes for me. Cause they're either 'scum'... or 'dumb'.
But whatever the heck you do, lynch Kingm today because he is a total liar!!!"

Pix - Given the posts and everything so far from him, i'm leaning on being scum, especially with the last minute vote at L1.

Here's what I don't understand so far. Vot turned out to be bodyguard and town so why was he lynched, Kings claim? I don't understand the framer aspect, can they make us see or believe something else? if so is it possible king is telling the truth and we are being mislead?

So right now here is where I see it. King is scum unless it is possible he is being "framed". Otherwise I see Charle, Ewe, DDS and Pix as possible scum based on posts and votes. More so leaning Pix I think right now but Charle not far.

I am town and have a very weak role. However it could help King if he is playing the Seer type role. I can use it on him if we agree which should help him pending on what other roles are around, like i said it's a weak one.

Anyways there's my thoughts so far. Don't think I missed anyone but if I did either i glanced over or there's been no posts for several pages

I have to go back maybe to see why vot was very on king for lynching.

It was a nice read and sum up devante, if you look away from the fact that you are a bit sceptic about me

First of all traf was killed N2, and I'm not a seer, I'm a tracker, and I'm telling the truth, so what you guys says about a framer or a similar role, seems logical to me.
One thing that Vot said when defending himself, was calling me a noob, and that absoluty true, this is my first mafia game ever, and I'm a bit overwhelmed with all the unfamilar roles and all the posibilties, I used to play a heck of a lot of "town of salem" back in the day.

I will for now just sit a bit on the sidelines and see what you guys post, because right now I'm a bit sus of all the players, heck even the dead ones.

[swang918]

I know there is a town of salem reddit sub, I thought it was basically kind of like mafia except with some twists?

[Kingm]

Many years since I played it last, but yeah its like Mafia, but atleast when I was obsessed and played it for hours each day, then all the roles was very vanila, when I saw the link from fusi, I almost got a bit scared lol, because that was a crazy amount of different roles on the wiki.

And sorry for the off topic.

[swang918]

I think the wiki can be helpful but is not necessary at all. Ive been playing without reading the whole thing. I mostly use it to look up roles when players flip. Like the malevolent spirit with sonic.

[Charle]

Wow, I am now really confused of what happened last night. I really would like to contribute but there are so many questions for a newby here that does not makes sense.

I think it was a great night for town to kill one mafia, surely LC poisoned Sonic on night 1 before he was visited by Votanic. According to Kingm and the lynch result, Votanic visited LC to protect him with his life on N1? If he visited and say scum killed LC, why was Votanic still alive the next day and why would he go out and protect LC with his life on N1 and why did it not work? Did he really visit LC?

[Charle]

What I also do not understand from Votanic is why he did not give us a full claim of his complete role before Pixar hammered him? Reading up the role of bodyguard, we could have use it to protect someone with a more important role later in the game i guess.

I am sure if we had a better understanding of his role and a more clear understanding of what happened N1 which still baffles my mind, a few people (including me) would have backed off a bit. I mean, nobody would go out and risk killing yourself on N1 without a good reason for it. Just to accuse Kingm of lying was obviously not good enough.

[DirtyDishSoap]

It was poor play. If he didn't lie about visiting LC and his role, most of would have unvoted. The deadline wasn't even for a few days. It sucks but that's sadly how it played out.

Unvote Dev. I haven't completely read everything Dev said, but i like it.

[*Pixar*]

I'll start with Sonic - I can see the hard push for no Lynch from him once that band wagon started. However this sticks out to me: "So 2 things: the city group has problems with the village group and who-ever killed Loose was a city dweller. That clears Pixar from being the Loose killer." So the Pix defending seems odd. And looking at Pixs posts and responses he reads as scum right now

He went back and retracted his statement because of misreading, so I'm not sure he was "Defending" me. I'm still confused how a bodyguard visiting Loose on N1 and Loose comes back dead makes any sense to me, what's the point of a bodyguard at that point? Never heard of that role not working on a serial killer... I'm still not in full belief that King is telling the truth

[Kingm]

I'll start with Sonic - I can see the hard push for no Lynch from him once that band wagon started. However this sticks out to me: "So 2 things: the city group has problems with the village group and who-ever killed Loose was a city dweller. That clears Pixar from being the Loose killer." So the Pix defending seems odd. And looking at Pixs posts and responses he reads as scum right now

He went back and retracted his statement because of misreading, so I'm not sure he was "Defending" me. I'm still confused how a bodyguard visiting Loose on N1 and Loose comes back dead makes any sense to me, what's the point of a bodyguard at that point? Never heard of that role not working on a serial killer... I'm still not in full belief that King is telling the truth

If I understand it right, then there are 2 possibilities.
1.There is a framer here, or there is a role like that in the game, and thats what got me the wrong result the first night.
2.The bodyguard did not save LC since he was the serialkiller.
This is what made me think of option 2:
From MafiaWiki
"A Bodyguard that protects their target from one kill is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. A Bodyguard cannot stop a Juggernaut from committing a kill, nor a Weak role from dying due to targeting anti-town. Protection would also fail if targeting a Macho or Ascetic role, although the Bodyguard should not be told if this happens, just like if they were blocked. Bodyguards do not redirect the kill, so a Tracker tracking the killer will still see the killer targeting the Bodyguard's target."

So I just assumed that the seriakiller would be catagorized as anti-town?

[DirtyDishSoap]

Theres alot to think about here in regards to LC.

I truly believe that there is not a Framer at play here. I think a solid theory is that Vot did indeed visit LC. However, to explain the lack of action, i can think of only one of two things. Vot was RBed (Roleblocked) or he was bussed. The other less likely scenario is that his protection failed due to a unblockable kill mechanic. I find that hard to believe for a N1 action with 0 information.

All in all, King was telling the truth. Vot lied. Lynch all liars. Can't be helped.

[swang918]

The problem there is, why in the world would votanic choose to potentially sacrifice his life for Loose on N1. There was no indication that Loose was any kind of high value town role. outside of votanic's weird lie about his role, he plays pretty much rationally.

it's much more likely that kingm is lying or that someone messed with king's tracking

[DirtyDishSoap]

That's why i said i believe he was role blocked or bussed. I can't explain why he would choose LC much less why he would choose to lie about being a vanilla townie.

[swang918]

That's why i said i believe he was role blocked or bussed. I can't explain why he would choose LC much less why he would choose to lie about being a vanilla townie.

ah I see. So we are somewhat on the same page. Although I though bussing meant scum voting other scum. Anyway so how would a roleblock or bussed work in this scenario--like how does a roleblock cause Kingm to return a result of Vot visiting loose? Basically I'm having trouble thinking of how the mechanics would work to make kingm see that.

[DirtyDishSoap]

RB Scenario - Vot protects LC, action is blocked, the visit is still shown. King sees it.

Bussing (less likely) - Vot chooses x but is switched with another player (y), so y instead visits x, Vot instead visits LC. Actions normally follow through though.

[DirtyDishSoap]

And you're right. I'm getting bussing and driver mixed. Oopsies. I blame starcraft.

[Devante]

If anything you're back and forth is making things more confusing. Can you elaborate or explain what you both mean?

[Charle]

I must say, I am now also very confused.

Is there maybe some kind of role of power that can give Kingm a false identity when visited? I am leaning towards Swang's theory that someone might mess with Kingm's tracking or identity. But then I ask myself the question again, why Kingm on N1?

[fusibaseball]

I still don't have a full grasp on what's happened and how Kingm turned that result on his investigation so took some time to look over the Manipulative roles list. Something very fishy happened night 1.

Based on my personal impression and re-reading Sonic's interactions, I personally find Ewebasher to be the most suspicious right now. I'll just use his name as placeholder for generic scum player below even though I'm not convinced of my own logic enough right now to vote for him.

It took me a while to wrap my head around this but I think we may have another Deflector on our hands:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Deflector

1) Vot chooses to Bodyguard Ewebasher

2) Scum, including Ewe, use Deflector role on Ewe, targeting LC

3) Scum use their useless goon role to execute the kill each night. They know LC will be their target so protect their most important player while deflecting onto their kill target to maximize confusion

4) Kingm tracks Vot and gets a result of Vot interacting with LC instead of Ewe. Vot likely only received notification from strike that his protection didn't save anyone night 1. As a result he sees this as a total lie and can't think of anything other than to accuse King of lying (rightfully so, from his perspective)

5) LC actually poisons the goon back which is a funny interaction in a pool of 13 people. This was not deflected. Poison goes through and kills night 2

6) Scum deflects probably the same player night 2 and use Godfather to kill Law

-------

I'm familiar with this role because I remember playing with it where Darin was the deflector (and Swang will remember this) in the Tick game. This role is extremely powerful because you have a limited pool of scum players and can always protect either A) your most suspicious scum player who's getting the most heat in the thread or B) just deflect your most important role, which will oftentimes just be the deflector himself.

-------

Roleblocker is not in play because roles themselves aren't being blocked. Someone is misdirecting and manipulating, not blocking.

[Kingm]

I still don't have a full grasp on what's happened and how Kingm turned that result on his investigation so took some time to look over the Manipulative roles list. Something very fishy happened night 1.

Based on my personal impression and re-reading Sonic's interactions, I personally find Ewebasher to be the most suspicious right now. I'll just use his name as placeholder for generic scum player below even though I'm not convinced of my own logic enough right now to vote for him.

It took me a while to wrap my head around this but I think we may have another Deflector on our hands:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Deflector

1) Vot chooses to Bodyguard Ewebasher

2) Scum, including Ewe, use Deflector role on Ewe, targeting LC

3) Scum use their useless goon role to execute the kill each night. They know LC will be their target so protect their most important player while deflecting onto their kill target to maximize confusion

4) Kingm tracks Vot and gets a result of Vot interacting with LC instead of Ewe. Vot likely only received notification from strike that his protection didn't save anyone night 1. As a result he sees this as a total lie and can't think of anything other than to accuse King of lying (rightfully so, from his perspective)

5) LC actually poisons the goon back which is a funny interaction in a pool of 13 people. This was not deflected. Poison goes through and kills night 2

6) Scum deflects probably the same player night 2 and use Godfather to kill Law

-------

I'm familiar with this role because I remember playing with it where Darin was the deflector (and Swang will remember this) in the Tick game. This role is extremely powerful because you have a limited pool of scum players and can always protect either A) your most suspicious scum player who's getting the most heat in the thread or B) just deflect your most important role, which will oftentimes just be the deflector himself.

-------

Roleblocker is not in play because roles themselves aren't being blocked. Someone is misdirecting and manipulating, not blocking.

This was so nicely explained, that atleast me belive that this is what probably happend, but this also makes my role kind of useless.
Or us townies could use my results at night as a false positive, and "clear" the potensial result I get back, but then again if we are on the right track, then the scum knows it, and could deflect one of their own, so he will be "cleared", ahh I'm just levling my self.

[Ewebasher]

Apologies for the radio silence over since D3 began, RL has been hectic...

I must confess I have absolutely no idea what's going on in this game... All I know is that I'm not scum (or at least if I am it's a pretty shit version of scum as I don't get to kill/possess anyone).

I'm confused by this chat of a Framer and a Deflector - can someone who's played a few Mafia games please explain in words of one syllable what those terms mean and how they can explain what's been going on so far?

[pmchugh]

Apologies for the radio silence over since D3 began, RL has been hectic...

I must confess I have absolutely no idea what's going on in this game... All I know is that I'm not scum (or at least if I am it's a pretty shit version of scum as I don't get to kill/possess anyone).

I'm confused by this chat of a Framer and a Deflector - can someone who's played a few Mafia games please explain in words of one syllable what those terms mean and how they can explain what's been going on so far?

Say you are the mafia framer, you pick someone to target and if they are investigated they show up as mafia, even if they aren't. So for king to be telling the truth, the mafia framer framed vot night 1. Since kingm tracked vot, he seen him visit the guilty party to make him look like he went there. Like planting evidence.

Not sure I've seen it with tracker before but not impossible given some of the other roles in the game.

I feel like there are a lot of people jumping on the "I have no idea what's happening " bandwagon to avoid saying anything meaningful/appear like a clueless towny.