Two Sides Mafia: Side B, EndGame, It Spreads

[shieldgenerator7]

So ROdion you suggest we try to lynch milkshake to make sure he's invincible? SOunds good, since we have no other leads. If we'd no lynch anyways, I guess it would be of good use to test his claim.

And I honestly don't see how roleblocker's claim would do anygood here. The killers don't seem to have been blocked, so all it would do is expose a power role and clear 1 townie (actually only semi-clear). FOS DRUNKMONKEY

VOTE MILKSHAKE

-SG7 ( )

[drunkmonkey]

So ROdion you suggest we try to lynch milkshake to make sure he's invincible? SOunds good, since we have no other leads. If we'd no lynch anyways, I guess it would be of good use to test his claim.

And I honestly don't see how roleblocker's claim would do anygood here. The killers don't seem to have been blocked, so all it would do is expose a power role and clear 1 townie (actually only semi-clear). FOS DRUNKMONKEY

VOTE MILKSHAKE

-SG7 ( )

Well, the consensus so far is that the SK made a kill, but mafia didn't. I don't know why you're so sure that they weren't roleblocked. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't consider roleblocker a major power role. Do I like exposing any roles? No. But I'd rather out a roleblocker for a chance at information than let the day pass with no information once again.

Rodion's suggestion was to lynch milkshake if there are no other leads by the end of the day. You seem to be ready to lynch him now, without discussing other leads. What's the rush?

[pancakemix]

I honestly believe shield made a massive blunder in Side A when he asked why Sully was blocked. Just thought I'd point it out.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

So ROdion you suggest we try to lynch milkshake to make sure he's invincible? SOunds good, since we have no other leads. If we'd no lynch anyways, I guess it would be of good use to test his claim.

And I honestly don't see how roleblocker's claim would do anygood here. The killers don't seem to have been blocked, so all it would do is expose a power role and clear 1 townie (actually only semi-clear). FOS DRUNKMONKEY

VOTE MILKSHAKE

-SG7 ( )

Well, the consensus so far is that the SK made a kill, but mafia didn't. I don't know why you're so sure that they weren't roleblocked. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't consider roleblocker a major power role. Do I like exposing any roles? No. But I'd rather out a roleblocker for a chance at information than let the day pass with no information once again.

Rodion's suggestion was to lynch milkshake if there are no other leads by the end of the day. You seem to be ready to lynch him now, without discussing other leads. What's the rush?

ya you do seem kinda rushed into lynching someone. but not really that serious to deserve my vote. one thing though, i do believe RB is a pretty important role ive been it once and it was important and i kinda screwed it up. but definitally agreed that id rather out a RB and get info.

[Rodion]

If there is a roleblocker here, I agree that him claiming could be a good way to find mafia. However, being that Sully claimed he was blocked on the other side and there not being evidence of both sides having a same role up to now, I'd guess a roleblocker there means no roleblocker here. Perhaps a jailkeeper? But then we would not know whether the JK protected the victim or blocked the killer.

Anyway, if we do have a roleblocker here, I think he should claim who he blocked as his target is our most likely scum candidate.

[crazymilkshake5]

ok, responding to the prod, havnt been posting because i havent had anything to add...

go ahead and lynch me...

[Victor Sullivan]

Hm, perhaps this will stimulate conversation...

I am The ACTUAL Town Lunatic, Town Skitzo, and I targeted Rodion (naturally ). I got info back that he is third party. Could be a(n) SK. As I am a Skitzo, there's not much reason for the mafia to target me, as I can do just about as much harm as good to the town.

Vote Rodion

-Sully

[shieldgenerator7]

Heh, I'm not rushing for milkshake's lynch. I just wanted to throw it out there for the time being.

Ok, if you put it that way, DrunkMonkey, it makes sense. I just didn't think there'd be an SK (as flavor didn't really seem to suggest it, altho I didn't really understand it, so... yeah) and thus I didn't think it'd be necessary for the roleblocker to claim. SO far he hasn't, so that means either there is none, he doesn't want to claim until more support from town, or he hasn't logged in yet.

SO, VS says you're third-party. What's up with that Rodion? You said you were T/T. You can't really be T/T if you're third party. WHat gives?

-SG7 ( )

[crazymilkshake5]

Hm, perhaps this will stimulate conversation...

I am The ACTUAL Town Lunatic, Town Skitzo, and I targeted Rodion (naturally ). I got info back that he is third party. Could be a(n) SK. As I am a Skitzo, there's not much reason for the mafia to target me, as I can do just about as much harm as good to the town.

Vote Rodion

-Sully

Very interesting...

[Rodion]

SO, VS says you're third-party. What's up with that Rodion? You said you were T/T. You can't really be T/T if you're third party. WHat gives?

-SG7 ( )

I'm T/T and my flavour has nothing "millerish". My conclusions are either:
a) redirected (doubtful with a busdriver flip on Side A and no evidence of repeated roles so far)
b) weird mechanic interaction from Victor's role (skitzo is short for schizophrenic, right?)
c) Victor lying

I'm mainly torn between b and c. The claim sounds fishy to me for 2 reasons:
1) see Memebase
2) Victor acknowledges he has a weak power role, but still bothers to convince mafia not to kill him (if your role is weak, you should be glad if mafia chose to kill you and ended up sparing, say, the cop). It kinda feels like "even though I'm claiming a town power role, town should not be suspicious when I survive night after night" (which is usually a scum routine)

"2" would be reason enough for me to vote if this came from most players. Unfortunately, coming from Victor this attempt to "negotiate" with mafia for his life might be just another Sully mistake instead of an actual scum tell.

Let's see...

Can you explain your claim better? From which pool of night actions would / randomly decide what you did?

[shieldgenerator7]

@Rodion:


I wasn't sure if he was telling the truth but I wanted to here what you thought. SO I wonder which is true? VS or Rodion? I don't want to call either or them a liar but like Rodion said either there's an unseen game mechanic or one of them is lying. I would like to here the other side to Victor's claim as well

-SG7 ( )

[shieldgenerator7]

p.s. sorry for the aweful looking pic, I tried to make it look cool but it just kinda looks dumb

[soundman]

VS, what do you mean when you say you are the ACTUAL Town Lunatic?

[Victor Sullivan]

SO, VS says you're third-party. What's up with that Rodion? You said you were T/T. You can't really be T/T if you're third party. WHat gives?

-SG7 ( )

I'm T/T and my flavour has nothing "millerish". My conclusions are either:
a) redirected (doubtful with a busdriver flip on Side A and no evidence of repeated roles so far)
b) weird mechanic interaction from Victor's role (skitzo is short for schizophrenic, right?)
c) Victor lying

d) Rodion lying b) is not going to be right, as a 'Skitzo' is not a made-up role. On the contrary, it's a well-established role. I don't see the benefit of lying, supposing I was another alignment other than town.

I'm mainly torn between b and c. The claim sounds fishy to me for 2 reasons:
1) see Memebase
2) Victor acknowledges he has a weak power role, but still bothers to convince mafia not to kill him (if your role is weak, you should be glad if mafia chose to kill you and ended up sparing, say, the cop). It kinda feels like "even though I'm claiming a town power role, town should not be suspicious when I survive night after night" (which is usually a scum routine)

It was justification for my outing myself on such a simple thing. Given that you've resorted to manipulating, I think that's a big scum-tell.

Can you explain your claim better? From which pool of night actions would / randomly decide what you did?

I randomly protect, investigate, or kill a target I choose.

I wasn't sure if he was telling the truth but I wanted to here what you thought. SO I wonder which is true? VS or Rodion? I don't want to call either or them a liar but like Rodion said either there's an unseen game mechanic or one of them is lying. I would like to here the other side to Victor's claim as well

-SG7 ( )

Rodion's being manipulative. Instead of defending himself (as a townie or innocent third party would/should), he has resorted to attacking me and questioning the validity of my result.

VS, what do you mean when you say you are the ACTUAL Town Lunatic?

This is what I mean:

A: Role Side A, “The Town Noun (in the same quotes as CM5)”, Role
B: Role Side B, The ACTUAL Town Noun (same noun, no quotes), Role

-Sully

Thus, my Side A role is "The Town Lunatic".

-Sully

[Rodion]

SO, VS says you're third-party. What's up with that Rodion? You said you were T/T. You can't really be T/T if you're third party. WHat gives?

-SG7 ( )

I'm T/T and my flavour has nothing "millerish". My conclusions are either:
a) redirected (doubtful with a busdriver flip on Side A and no evidence of repeated roles so far)
b) weird mechanic interaction from Victor's role (skitzo is short for schizophrenic, right?)
c) Victor lying

d) Rodion lying b) is not going to be right, as a 'Skitzo' is not a made-up role. On the contrary, it's a well-established role. I don't see the benefit of lying, supposing I was another alignment other than town.

I don't see the benefit either, but it doesn't rule that option out from the realm of possibility, especially when talking about you.

And maybe it is a well-established role, but I never saw it. For the record, I only remember Skitzo as a fakeclaim you already used in Memebase.

I'm mainly torn between b and c. The claim sounds fishy to me for 2 reasons:
1) see Memebase
2) Victor acknowledges he has a weak power role, but still bothers to convince mafia not to kill him (if your role is weak, you should be glad if mafia chose to kill you and ended up sparing, say, the cop). It kinda feels like "even though I'm claiming a town power role, town should not be suspicious when I survive night after night" (which is usually a scum routine)

It was justification for my outing myself on such a simple thing. Given that you've resorted to manipulating, I think that's a big scum-tell.

lolwut?

A non-town investigation result justifies itself as you've found someone who does not have town's winning condition.

And lie. What you wrote here...

As I am a Skitzo, there's not much reason for the mafia to target me, as I can do just about as much harm as good to the town.

... is not justification on why you claimed. As I said, claiming a non-town investigation justifies itself. What you did is one of the following:
a) VS, as town, trying to suggest mafia not to kill him because he's a minor power role (a mistake, as I said, because you don't give advice on what's good play for mafia, you shut up and hope they make a bad move - didn't I mention this enough times D1?)
b) VS, as mafia, pre-emptively explaining why he won't be killed tonight (or tomorrow, or the day after tomorrow...) in spite of having claimed a power role

Bottom line: what you did is bad for town. Whether it comes from town that plays poorly or anti-town is something that remains to be seen and I have not made a conclusion yet, even though you already think I'm manipulating for calling something as I saw it.

Can you explain your claim better? From which pool of night actions would / randomly decide what you did?

I randomly protect, investigate, or kill a target I choose.

Overeager or non-overeager?

I wasn't sure if he was telling the truth but I wanted to here what you thought. SO I wonder which is true? VS or Rodion? I don't want to call either or them a liar but like Rodion said either there's an unseen game mechanic or one of them is lying. I would like to here the other side to Victor's claim as well

-SG7 ( )

Rodion's being manipulative. Instead of defending himself (as a townie or innocent third party would/should), he has resorted to attacking me and questioning the validity of my result.

Oh, I've defended myself! You said "he isn't town" and I answered "I am town". Did you expect me to copy/paste "I am town" 100 times? I figured 1 was enough.

After "defending" myself from the "attack", I turned my focus into what is really meaningful: understanding why something false was claimed, which could be a result of 3 things - redirection, hidden mechanics or a VS lie (I did not mention "Rodion lie" because I wrote from my perspective, but yeah, I assume from other player's perspectives there is this 4th option).

And manipulative is a rather big word. Can you explain what (or where) exactly is the manipulation? As I said, you made a bad statement and I called a spade a spade. I even summoned your poor play as an extenuating circumstance ("might be just another Sully mistake instead of an actual scum tell"), meaning I did not in any way conclude you were lying, only that you lying was a possibility. Why so defensive over a possibility being raised?

[jonty125]

For now I only have 1 suggestion concerning this game: if by day 7 we have not found anything and we decide to no lynch again, we should lynch Milkshake instead in order to test his invincible claim.

No more plans until we can get everyone to talk. Slash, prods please?

Day 7???

[jonty125]

Sorry for double post, accidentally skipped page 16. unvote vote Rodion. I believe VS' claim and find it suspicious how Rodion isn't claiming as that's what I would do if I'd been outed as non-town.

[crazymilkshake5]

Well. I believe Sully, and i have nothing to lose.
Vote Rodion

[Rodion]

@Jonty - did you really want me to claim after having 1 vote only? Check again if I ever get to L-2.

@Milkshake - please explain what you mean by having nothing to lose.

[safariguy5]

If Victor says he got roleblocked, it makes sense that he had some sort of investigative role. I'm not sure how his roles on both sides are linked, it could be one of them is naive.

That said, Rodion did say he was T/T, and if Sully says Rod isn't in this side, that's enough for me to follow the skitzo in this case.

vote Rodion

[/]

The Official Side B Vote Count:

crazymilkshake5 (1 vote) - shieldgenerator7
Rodion (4 votes) - crazymilkshake5, safariguy5, jonty125, Victor Sullivan

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline Tuesday

[shieldgenerator7]

well you have 3 days to claim Rodion, as you are today's current lynch target

[crazymilkshake5]

Cant die, and i wont wast my vote to lynch me, and fail, and not kill a third party that is almost confirmed...

[Rodion]

well you have 3 days to claim Rodion, as you are today's current lynch target

I suppose you are correct. Waiting until L-2 is not necessary with a tuesday deadline and mandatory lynch. Besides, if I take too long to get this over with we'll not have time to pursue other cases.

I'm Neighborhood Watch, town watcher. N1 I watched Edocsil and nobody visited him.

Not sure if I got your logic, Saf. Are you saying VS is sane here and naive on Side A?

[safariguy5]

well you have 3 days to claim Rodion, as you are today's current lynch target

I suppose you are correct. Waiting until L-2 is not necessary with a tuesday deadline and mandatory lynch. Besides, if I take too long to get this over with we'll not have time to pursue other cases.

I'm Neighborhood Watch, town watcher. N1 I watched Edocsil and nobody visited him.

Not sure if I got your logic, Saf. Are you saying VS is sane here and naive on Side A?

I'm just trying to find a connection between the whole "Actual" thing Sully talks about. Since these roles are connected to both sides somehow, I'm trying to figure out a connection. Of course, it's up to Sully to explain the connection if he wants to. May either strengthen/weaken the case.