Soaps Role Madness 2! Town wins!

[Extreme Ways]

Okay, that is kind of awkward and unlucky. Not going to try to pretend there's two jacks in this one, I lied about my role because I wanted to bluff something important to cover up for other people and draw mafia attention. I am still a different protective role so I'm happy to take a bullet for other townsfolk. That's also why I checked to see if anyone wanted to breadcrumb anything D1 either truthfully or as a bluff, so that we could draw out mafia in a targeted manner and I could act accordingly.

wdym with "different" protective role? I fancy the kill and investigation more.

@Dev, no need to claim if it doesnt help you as you've been greenchecked. You will die tonight though.

[Loose Canon]

EW - why do you say Devante will die tonight?

All - is there a suicidal type role - that Kong could be ?

[Maxleod]

EW - why do you say Devante will die tonight?

All - is there a suicidal type role - that Kong could be ?

Yeah, how do you know Dev will die tonight? Explain.

Also, for obvious reasons,

Vote kong

[Extreme Ways]

EW - why do you say Devante will die tonight?

All - is there a suicidal type role - that Kong could be ?

Because the counterclaimed Jack has a greencheck on Dev, and the initial claimed Jack has retracted their claim...

Ok Kong - well I'm the Jack or a second Jack and Devante came up innocent last night.

unvote Maxleod vote Kong

Unless you are scum with exactly Dev, your check fully clears Dev while you can still be mafia.

I should rectify that given that I will self-confirm there are unlikely to be nightkills, so you have me on that one. Dev is just the most clear of any of us atm.

[kongming3]

I'd say Loose is fully cleared as well, unless there's a role that tells mafia what other people's roles are. No way scum just randomly decides to call my bluff on that with no context. And no, I am not suicidal, I just wanted to bluff a more important role than I have given there's 200+ roles and I didn't expect there to be someone with the exact one I claimed. If all the less important townsfolk say stuff like I'm oracle or I'm the goof, it becomes pretty easy for scum to just single out the other townsfolk. For instance, now that Maxleod claimed oracle publicly, scum will never kill him at night barring exceptional circumstances.

EW, to clarify I am purely a protector role. Anyone can check what that means on the possible roles list given. I bluffed having that investigative and kill power (as Jack) because I likewise think it's valuable for town and wanted to bait scum. To be super clear, I am not Jack and did not investigate or kill (obviously) anyone last night.

[Extreme Ways]

I dont think Kong's claim is unbelievable, I just think that it would now be beneficial to claim the actual role given you are "just" a protective anyway.

I have an inkling of why you aren't doing that so if it makes sense not so, don't. I will then later want an explanation of why it made sense not so.

[kongming3]

I think it's preferable to not say exactly what I am, but if it's needed to avoid a mislynch I can - no problem with an explanation as well.

[Extreme Ways]

I'll take your word for it.

[Maxleod]

EW, again, how do you know Dev will die tonight?

[kongming3]

Because dev has been cleared as town by Loose, and there is therefore an incentive for scum to kill off confirmed town if there isn't a better target.

[Charle]

When I first read Kong's false claim, I have to admit, I immediately wanted to cast my vote. Now after realising Kong is on L-2, one more vote will put him in a position where anybody can just hammer. Having said this, very quickly and easy to change your tune when you are caught out, and then also the reason for not claiming your real role buying time to get the new false claim in order (hoping more people claim?).

Not sure if I want to buy Kong's story at the moment, but give him the benefit of the doubt at the moment. At L-2 we expect a serious claim, or will it be another fake?

I have to admit, I am now regretting the fact that I already claimed now, making it easier for scum to come out with their fake roles.

[Ragian]

Well...Kong's claim came instantly after EW - whose role is also somewhat meh to me - which had me worried that it was orchestrated. Now, Kong has come forward saying that he did indeed lie. LAL policy? Is that where we're going?

[Extreme Ways]

Well...Kong's claim came instantly after EW - whose role is also somewhat meh to me - which had me worried that it was orchestrated. Now, Kong has come forward saying that he did indeed lie. LAL policy? Is that where we're going?

Explain why my role is meh, please

[Ragian]

I don't know if I'm rationalising after the event or something, but it was just you saying you advocated for a mass claim, then a claim from kong without any debate immediately after that was a lie. It just struck me as orchestrated. Add my general paranoia in relation to you mafia-wise...

I don't know what "meh" means as such, but I can't shrug the feeling that you mastermined this mass claim with a scum buddy following quickly that may die but at least you've pinpointed the real jack and whoever the real jack cleared.

Moreover, your claim make you able to prove yourself as townie. That always raises red flags with me, and now I'm trying to figure out how scum could have a role that could mimick the one you mentioned in order to get unlimited town cred.

---

What do you think about Kong?

[Extreme Ways]

I don't know if I'm rationalising after the event or something, but it was just you saying you advocated for a mass claim, then a claim from kong without any debate immediately after that was a lie. It just struck me as orchestrated. Add my general paranoia in relation to you mafia-wise...

I don't know what "meh" means as such, but I can't shrug the feeling that you mastermined this mass claim with a scum buddy following quickly that may die but at least you've pinpointed the real jack and whoever the real jack cleared.

Moreover, your claim make you able to prove yourself as townie. That always raises red flags with me, and now I'm trying to figure out how scum could have a role that could mimick the one you mentioned in order to get unlimited town cred.

---

What do you think about Kong?

Believable, but someone who should never survive the game..

I find Max's audacity to not explain how his role works and hyperfocus on one thing I said more scummy right now. I also like to think that Kong self-resolves eventually.

[Ragian]

Right. So I'm back to having that paranoid feeling that you and kong orchestrated this mass claim with a scummy agenda. Sigh...

Max has shown before that he focuses on one thing and one thing only. He was voting me earlier for asking him questions. That's his MO. Not scummy, not townie, just Max.

[Extreme Ways]

Right. So I'm back to having that paranoid feeling that you and kong orchestrated this mass claim with a scummy agenda. Sigh...

Max has shown before that he focuses on one thing and one thing only. He was voting me earlier for asking him questions. That's his MO. Not scummy, not townie, just Max.

You can keep looking for a role like mine on mafiagg, and the closest you will get is Party host.

It would be funny if we had one of the roles that know every role in the setup, though.

The benefit of committing to Max is that if he speaks truth, we have someone confirmed by means of Crystal Ball. Unless that person is myself, this is not that negative of an outcome if the alternative is lynching a protective role who can protect our actual jack claim.

[Ragian]

You don't think it's odd that you ponder a mass claim and then Kong hijacks (no pun intended) the agenda by claiming before anyone has ad the chance to weigh in on your toughts? And then he goes on to lie. I mean...only Son!c has gotten away with stuff like that before.

[kongming3]

I can't tell if Ragian is being deliberately obtuse or hasn't realized how EW's role works, because he will (presumably) quite literally be proven beyond any doubt as town this very night - there's no way for any scum role to mimic what will happen, and if anyone finds a specific scum role that could somehow they should bring it up.

And yes Charle/Ragian I did make an early (and fake) claim. It's not something I would have done as scum, but I did it here because I strongly dislike the type of claims we're getting from other people. EW aside, both Oracle (Max) and Phantom (Charle) are terrible roles to have claimed publicly as town, but they're good claims for scum to make. Both roles are relatively low power, but their entire value comes from the surprise element and getting something useful out of scum targeting them (information/a diverted kill onto a potentially scummy target.) Now that those are both out in the open, the roles are effectively useless and scum will never kill them over any other town. That's bad for town, and bad for both those players if they are town, because even if it lets both players survive till late game as a result, they're taking a slot from a more useful town role. It's also a very useful claim for scum to make for the same reason, no scum "should" ever target a player with a role like that, and there is therefore a built in justification and something easy for them to point to for why scum never targeted them (even if the real reason is because they're scum.)

[Ragian]

You wouldn't make a fake claim as scum?

[Ragian]

So, Max voting you is a scum vote?

[kongming3]

I wouldn't publicly be the first to claim before I saw what other people were saying no. And I might have been giving possible fake roles to claim as well, don't know how common that is but scum had it in the last game at least.

[kongming3]

Got FPed, I said nothing about Max having a scum vote? Honestly don't know what to make of the guy generally speaking, but I haven't made any judgements on him yet this game.

[Ragian]

And to address your "deliberately obtuse" bit - sorry for spamming - I will just say that my knowledge of mafia doesn't reach the level of EW's, so no, I don't know if there's a scum role that does something similar to EW's claimed role. You can call me ignorant if you want. And then colour me impressed if you all scum roles available.

FP'ed by Kong

Well, waiting for others to claim first often makes you look scummy. As if you're checking to see what's left. So yeah, getting it off right away makes good sense. People tend to gamble sometimes. And sometimes that doesn't pay off.

Got FP'ed again. I'll shut up now

[Ragian]

OKay, I won't shut up. I wasn't putting words in your mouth. I was asking a genuine question based on you saying that Max's role is a good scum fake claim.