Emotions Mafia {6/10} GAME OVER: MAFIA WINS!

[jonty125]

Is there nothing else you can add???:

Yesterday was D1, the day where you make something out of nothing, I could post a lot of words, but it could all be waffle, and of little substance, I'm not one to beat around the bush, if I've get a thought I'll say it, and not draw it out.

[MudPuppy]

Well, town's only two weapons are their voice and their vote... While I get your point about D1, I think more could and should have been added. That said, unless it strays from your meta, I'll agree with Zivel's words:

No posts does not mean scum. It's day one and there is little to go on.

Which brings me back to my point of trying to reconcile why Zivel and you both suspected and voted for Drake and both posted little else of substance but Zivel got the noose based on comments like:

Zivel has run the gamut with scum tells.

your right zivel seems to be scummier, rereading makes that clear

Why? I don't see the scum tells on Zivel other than the generalized "scummarining" charge that could also apply to jonty. What's the distinction?
IB & virus, can you provide specifics of why Zivel's scumminess was so clear to you while jonty's similar play did not get the same attention?

[drake_259]

Is there nothing else you can add???:

Yesterday was D1, the day where you make something out of nothing, I could post a lot of words, but it could all be waffle, and of little substance, I'm not one to beat around the bush, if I've get a thought I'll say it, and not draw it out.

True but its better than nothing. If it doesn't happen, no one would talk. but even PCM was pretty much inactive on Day 1 so with MP going after Jonty is nothing on itself. But i would like to hear something about the game that you think so far without just repeating anything of what someone has already said?

[virus90]

@mudpuppy
the scummines of zivel was compared to drake, and drake only.
i was not gonna vote on someone else then these 2, else i could have left my vote on IB on who it was to begin with.
so zivel in my opinion was scummier then drake. reason 1: he had not been around much, and when he got voted once he suddenly was back, then told he had to catch up. when he then posted he posted this :
Quote zivel : "I have very little to contribute, I find day one tough to get into as its hard to make many reads.

I am not worried about the vote tbh, its day one... votes fly and voting me off would be silly. I have not picked any fights so when I flip it wont pass any information on.:

for that reason i found sivel more scummier so i voted zivel.

[drake_259]

I have not picked any fights so when I flip it wont pass any information on.:

Did you really just say that?

[virus90]

no that was me quoting zivel... see page 8

[virus90]

Edit by way of posting, to not cause confusion, apparently i already did:


@mudpuppy
the scummines of zivel was compared to drake, and drake only.
i was not gonna vote on someone else then these 2, else i could have left my vote on IB on who it was to begin with.
so zivel in my opinion was scummier then drake. reason 1: he had not been around much, and when he got voted once he suddenly was back, then told he had to catch up. when he then posted he posted this :

"I have very little to contribute, I find day one tough to get into as its hard to make many reads.

I am not worried about the vote tbh, its day one... votes fly and voting me off would be silly. I have not picked any fights so when I flip it wont pass any information on.:

for that reason i found sivel more scummier so i voted zivel.

[MudPuppy]

@virus... fair enough... I can see how that Zivel comment can be interpreted as sketchy.

[Whatsausage]

Really the only scum tells that I think can be found on Day 1 are by way of claim, nooby mistake, or scummarining. Unfortunately the second one doesn't usually mean actual scum, but there cannot be any justification for that until the person flips. The reasons I found zivel to be scummy started with scummarining. When he was called on it, he responded immediately, showing that he was following the game. His reason for not contributing was that he didn't want to make enemies. I will agree that none of us want the target on our back, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to scum hunt. So he made the nooby mistake of flat out saying that he was submarining. When he was pushed more, he wouldn't provide a claim. This combined with the "not wanting to pick a fight" led to the conclusion that he was scummaring because he had something to hide. He said that his claim would hurt the town after being pushed even more. At this point it seemed very clear that he had something to hide. So I don't have any problem with him being lynched. Unfortunately, he was town, but we had little reason to believe that.

(I'm beginning to think I need to paragraph more, to make my posts look cleaner)

[jonty125]

vote virus90 on D1 virus says he wants a lynch, yet votes zivel, but if he wanted a n out-an-out lynch and didn't want to risk the dreaded no lynch, he would have voted drake.

[MudPuppy]

Well, if you guys are liking virus for his avoidance of hammering drake with the implication that he's a scum buddy, then I'd prefer to go to the root of that theory.

Yeah, perhaps virus did vote Zivel to save drake. IF drake is scum, then my money is more on IB as his scum mate. IB was the second person to vote for drake. If they are both scum and drake later gets outed, IB can point to his vote and say "I knew he was scummy." After drake got to L2, however, Sausage voted Zivel. Who were the next two votes on Zivel??? drake then IB, less than an hour later... with IB hitting Zivel hard... too hard in my opine.

Rather than split hairs about who drake's scum buddy is, let's avoid forcing another claim (which would narrow mafia's search for PRs) and go to the source. If drake is mafia, we can then hash out who his partner in crime is. If drake is VT, then we still give our PRs the best chance to continue their investigations into night 2.

Vote Drake

[pancakemix]

Well, if you guys are liking virus for his avoidance of hammering drake with the implication that he's a scum buddy, then I'd prefer to go to the root of that theory.

Yeah, perhaps virus did vote Zivel to save drake. IF drake is scum, then my money is more on IB as his scum mate. IB was the second person to vote for drake. If they are both scum and drake later gets outed, IB can point to his vote and say "I knew he was scummy." After drake got to L2, however, Sausage voted Zivel. Who were the next two votes on Zivel??? drake then IB, less than an hour later... with IB hitting Zivel hard... too hard in my opine.

Rather than split hairs about who drake's scum buddy is, let's avoid forcing another claim (which would narrow mafia's search for PRs) and go to the source. If drake is mafia, we can then hash out who his partner in crime is. If drake is VT, then we still give our PRs the best chance to continue their investigations into night 2.

Vote Drake

Actually I'd argue another route, not necessarily that drake is his scumbuddy, but rather that he has reason to protect drake, akin to the Zivel/NoS situation.

[Iron Butterfly]

Mafia will know their team. I doubt they would know Zivel was part of Lover team.

Mafia should have known NoS was a Doctor/Lover, But i doubt they knew who with.

Although yous lot don't know what i am yet still just a few pointers from my perspective

NoS started that bandwagon on me.
I would say sausage should be pretty safe as a town. why would he start another wagon when i only needed 2 votes?
Jonty & TFO both voted to lynch me sticking with NoS
MP Didn't know what to do. He was playing with who to vote for and dragging it out, too me it looked like he was trying to look innocent either way he voted.
IB pcm & Virus could be either way but leaning town on IB.

IDK there is definitely something funny about puppy, i said it at the start, i started to believe he was fine but i am still really feeling it but cannot grab anything hard.

Finally at Mod I was at L2 at lynch not L1 :@

I am not about to play the mod but its all there for the record. Drake and I both thought that Nos had flipped mafia due to the color scheme. It certainly looked like NOS flipped mafia. Shit happens. This is why i believe Drake is Town.

I find it interesting that you Mud Puppy have been trying to compare jonty and Zivels play, that somehow they were similar and that one was no better then the other game play wise. It was if you were trying to shift suspicion to jonty with the idea that because Zivel was pressured and lynched for scummarinning then why should not jonty.

Whatsausage laid all the information on the table to start the case. Even in the end Zivel did not help his cause by refusing to claim YET you wanted to compare the two as if they were equal in what they have done. All the information is there for you to compare and contrast yet you see nothing? I understand you are new but you have nothing to compare to.

Your trying to paint me scummy because i switched votes to Zivel. You fail to mention either because you honestly don't recognize scum tells, and how could you with your experience OR are willfully ignoring them.

We can not afford to lynch a Town today VT or not.



Now you want to lynch Drake because you point out jonty voted Virus because he wouldn't lynch Drake.

[MudPuppy]

I am not about to play the mod but its all there for the record. Drake and I both thought that Nos had flipped mafia due to the color scheme. It certainly looked like NOS flipped mafia. Shit happens. This is why i believe Drake is Town.

Everyone who posted first thing on D2, that's half the survivors, before jak made his clarifying post thought NoS flipped mafia. It's interesting that you claim this somehow clears only you and your potential scumbuddy.

I find it interesting that you Mud Puppy have been trying to compare jonty and Zivels play, that somehow they were similar and that one was no better then the other game play wise. It was if you were trying to shift suspicion to jonty with the idea that because Zivel was pressured and lynched for scummarinning then why should not jonty.

Yes, since the end of D1, I've said I thought their play was similar... and I still feel that way. While I did want an answer from jonty about his reasons for what I perceived as his inactivity, the main reason I focused on it was my interest in why YOU only focused on Zivel. Jonty's answer to my question above was satisfactory: he claims he didn't post much substance because there was nothing to say and he's "not one to beat around the bush" or "draw it out." While I still think he could be trying to fly under the radar, I stated "unless it strays from your meta... 'no posts does not mean scum.'"

Whatsausage laid all the information on the table to start the case. Even in the end Zivel did not help his cause by refusing to claim YET you wanted to compare the two as if they were equal in what they have done. All the information is there for you to compare and contrast yet you see nothing? I understand you are new but you have nothing to compare to.

Yes, sausage laid the info on the table and then drake and you jumped on it. I said I could see how virus interpreted that quote from Zivel as sketchy... but I myself did not see it that way. I am interested in what specific posts you saw from a now confirmed townie that you felt "ran the gamut of scum tells". I find it interesting that you have yet to respond to that question even though I've asked it of you twice already. Maybe I don't see these tells because I'm new or maybe I don't see them because they were overblown/fabricated.

Your trying to paint me scummy because i switched votes to Zivel. You fail to mention either because you honestly don't recognize scum tells, and how could you with your experience OR are willfully ignoring them.

A lot of people switched votes, myself included. It's the circumstances around your switch and the voracity with which you attacked Zivel that makes your switch seem especially questionable. Yes, I could be wrong... but you and drake have definitely moved back up to the top of my list. I don't understand what you're saying I fail to mention.

We can not afford to lynch a Town today VT or not.

This is the one thing I could partially agree with you on. If we lynch, I think the safest lynch is drake (it would hurt A LOT if he's VT... but assuming we have 2 PRs out there, I think we could still win)... but I am not opposed to "the dreaded no lynch" today.

Now you want to lynch Drake because you point out jonty voted Virus because he wouldn't lynch Drake.

I interpreted both PCM's and jonty's D2 votes to be because they thought it fishy that virus did not put the hammer down on drake... and it is. PCM has since clarified that he felt virus may have been protecting his lover rather than his scumbuddy. I doubt there's another lover pair in such a small game but, either way, I thought they were choosing the wrong half of the pair to vote for and I'm wary of trying to force another claim that could do more harm than good when we already have a perfectly good candidate for lynching. They think virus may be in bed with drake; I think you may be in bed with drake. The common link here is drake and that is why I placed my vote on him.

[jonty125]

MudPuppy, I can see why you want a claim from drake, but your case is based off virus' been scummy. For all we know, virus was trying to buddy up to a townie - drake, (assuming virus is scum). And by voting virus, he's @ L-2, claimtime, which will be more useful than drake @ L-3, and I believe this will go some way to satisfying your goals, of understanding if, and to what extent the virus/drake relationship exists.

[Whatsausage]

Jonty, we already have a claim from drake. I think MP is trying to avoid getting another claim, at the risk of giving the scum a PR target tonight. I think he is either pushing for drake to be flipped to see if he was telling the truth, or if that doesn't work to consider a no lynch. Is that a correct interpretation MP?

FOS jonty for "forgetting" that drake has already claimed. Perhaps they are scum buddies, and jonty didn't recognize the claim because he knows it is false. (A bit of a reach, hence the FOS instead of a vote)

[jonty125]

and jonty didn't recognize the claim because he knows it is false. (A bit of a reach, hence the FOS instead of a vote)

A BIT OF A REACH!! OK, my bad.

[drake_259]

First of @MP ofc I'm going to jump on Zivel, it was me or him and i am always going to side with me whoever i am so me jumping so fast means nothing.

@PCM comment, Ofc i am no lover but if there are any connected to me wouldn't that really unbalanced the game? unless we have multiple 3rd party doctors?

[MudPuppy]

MudPuppy, I can see why you want a claim from drake, but your case is based off virus' been scummy. For all we know, virus was trying to buddy up to a townie - drake, (assuming virus is scum). And by voting virus, he's @ L-2, claimtime, which will be more useful than drake @ L-3, and I believe this will go some way to satisfying your goals, of understanding if, and to what extent the virus/drake relationship exists.

I know this has been mostly cleared up with drake having already claimed VT Anger. I actually don't have a terribly scummy read on virus even though I'll acknowledge that his reluctance to hammer drake is a solid red flag. The reason I suggested we refocus on drake is to AVOID claim time. I'm not sure a claim will do more good than harm (i.e., narrowing down targets for mafia when they try to hit a PR tonight). I'm open to forcing a claim but I don't want to do so without good reason. I'd like to hear how others feel about it. Our three main choices atm, I think, are:

1. Push for a claim on virus - may give useful info that can help pull the pieces together but may narrow targets for night kill;
2. Lynch drake - he's already claimed VT Anger but still has a lot of suspicion around him with theories that he's linked to virus or IB. Big risk/benefit on a lynch when we're already down two town-friendly players.
3. no lynch; no claim - basically sit tight and see how N2 plays out. It gives PRs a better chance to continue their investigation, ensures we don't mislynch, but doesn't give town any new info.

I'm still very open to any of these options. The main reason I voted drake over virus is that I have a scummier read on him and he's the center of both the drake/virus theory and the drake/IB theory. If he flips town, then both those theories are resolved. If he flips scum, then we've got two good suspects to pursue from there.

I think MP is trying to avoid getting another claim, at the risk of giving the scum a PR target tonight. I think he is either pushing for drake to be flipped to see if he was telling the truth, or if that doesn't work to consider a no lynch. Is that a correct interpretation MP?

Correctamundo.

First of @MP ofc I'm going to jump on Zivel, it was me or him and i am always going to side with me whoever i am so me jumping so fast means nothing.

That is a good point. You certainly weren't going to vote for yourself... but you also didn't have to vote for Zivel. Your own words as you were casting the vote were:

I know this looks scummy on my part, but .... Vote: Zivel

At the very least, your Zivel vote opens up the possibility it was an effort to start a bandwagon to divert attention from you.

[drake_259]

First of @MP ofc I'm going to jump on Zivel, it was me or him and i am always going to side with me whoever i am so me jumping so fast means nothing.

That is a good point. You certainly weren't going to vote for yourself... but you also didn't have to vote for Zivel. Your own words as you were casting the vote were:

I know this looks scummy on my part, but .... Vote: Zivel

At the very least, your Zivel vote opens up the possibility it was an effort to start a bandwagon to divert attention from you.

It was either vote for him or let myself get killed. So you quoting myself means nought, i'm sure everyone can agree they would rather vote someone else off than themselves esp in day 1. (there are exceptions but none usually in day 1).

That doesn't mean i didn't find zivel scummy, he had too many comments that couldn't be ignored and far outright was the most scummist player during the round.

[Iron Butterfly]

I believe Drake is Town. I will not vote Drake unless new information arises which proves otherwise. Be that as it may. Here is the problem we have.

1)If you lynch Drake and he flips Town mafia still get a night kill seeing as we no longer have a Doc. We will be down two Town.

2) In order for the game to progress we will need to put pressure on someone other then Drake. No matter who we put pressure on they are either going to claim a VT or Power role. There is no way around this route.

Weather we lynch Drake or not mafia will still get a night kill and perhaps hit a Town PR. That's a given.

I believe his claim because he claimed Anger. At the beginning of the game if he was mafia he could have claimed anything...taking into consideration that everyone else is assigned an emotion as well Anger seems not only contrary to what we expected it is also a basic human emotion. Anger is not a safe fake claim in my opinion. Granted this is speculation on my part but makes sense to me.

Vote Virus

[Whatsausage]

I believe Drake is Town. I will not vote Drake unless new information arises which proves otherwise. Be that as it may. Here is the problem we have.

1)If you lynch Drake and he flips Town mafia still get a night kill seeing as we no longer have a Doc. We will be down two Town.

2) In order for the game to progress we will need to put pressure on someone other then Drake. No matter who we put pressure on they are either going to claim a VT or Power role. There is no way around this route.

Weather we lynch Drake or not mafia will still get a night kill and perhaps hit a Town PR. That's a given.

I believe his claim because he claimed Anger. At the beginning of the game if he was mafia he could have claimed anything...taking into consideration that everyone else is assigned an emotion as well Anger seems not only contrary to what we expected it is also a basic human emotion. Anger is not a safe fake claim in my opinion. Granted this is speculation on my part but makes sense to me.

Vote Virus

I also believe drake is town for similar reasons. He didn't do anything scummy really the first day, just tried to get things moving.

Your point number one however... How do you figure that would only leave two town? There are eight alive right now. If we lynch a town, that leaves seven. If another dies during the night, that leaves six alive. I have a hard time believing 4 of those would not be town, as that would mean half the game would have not been town in the beginning (albeit at least one of those wouldn't be aligned with other non-town). So I don't understand your logic, unless you have some idea I haven't seen?

I agree that we need to take a chance on pressuring someone else, we are somewhat behind already, and have a lack of leads. I believe virus is at L-2 now? So I think that means claim time.

I don't think the mod has posted in a while. Could we get a vote count and something about The ForgivenOne?

[MudPuppy]

Your point number one however... How do you figure that would only leave two town?

He's just saying town will have lost two more... not that town will have only 2 remaining.
So, IB's vote puts virus at L-2.

[jak111]

VOTE COUNT

jonty125
TheForgivenOne
pancakemix
MudPuppy
Whatsausage
virus90 ~ PCM, jonty, IB (L2)
Iron Butterfly
drake_259 ~ MP (L4)

With 8 alive, it takes only 5 to lynch![/quote]

[virus90]

can someone put me at l1 if someone else wants me to pressure aswell, i rather take the risk of scum hammering then claiming on such a weak case. I wonder if there is anyone else who really thinks i am the scummiest player around? and for what reason(s) that would be. (This post not being counted as a reason.)
so me and the rest of town can kill one of the guys that are now pushing for a claim on this weak case.