Waterdale Mafia Over Mafia Wins

[Iron Butterfly]

this reeks of an OMGUS vote which isn't good anark, IB votes you first for reasons i'm still trying to put into a coherent sentence, james immediately comes to nark's defense and votes IB before TWO chimes in with his bit of scum distancing case

and then you have nark's response above, nark, why did you choose to vote TWO and not IB?

Because at least IB came to the conclusion on his own... TWO just hopped along for the ride. IB has solid opinions based on logic that I can understand... He does this in most games I see him play in. You will notice I have agreed with him throughout this thread... I look scummy to him for valid reasons, at least, even if they aren't true.

i'm still suspicious of fir and his 2 posts per week behavior and then there's james who's been very quick to cast and recast his vote, the latest example was james' asking for greg's opinion and subsequent vote against nark, upon which james switches his vote to nark as well pushing nark to L1 and appealing to myself and fir to hammer since newguy chimed in, so you might have a better time getting fir or newguy to hammer then me at this point, i'm in agreement with newguy actually, if nark flips town, i'd start with james tmw

Fircoal has been gone for a long time... His Cino game is going down the crapper because people are losing interest. I really don't think it is scummy that he is gone... As I said earlier in this post, Real life got him...

And I am going to flip town, just so you know... And everyone is still gonna say, "Well gah, look at the way he was playing." Obviously, people didn't remember that this is always how I play... Aggressive, talkative, and foul-mouthed...

This game is funny. I am curious. Why are you so resistant to just claiming? You have been asked several times. Still you respond with long winded blah blah blahs defending Firecoal and my reason for voting you yet not yourself.

Granted you may think think that there was a Neon sighn posted that said what you are...until it comes from your mouth it is meaningless.

[Anarkistsdream]

I am also a vanilla townie... Exactly like kgb stated in his claim... Looked the same and everything... And for all of the people saying, "Well that is the most common way to see it." I disagree.... I have very VERY rarely seen it said Vanilla Townie... Normally, you see Town, or Townie, but VT is something I have not seen in any of the games I have played before this one, as far as I can recall.

[Fircoal]

Look, I have no problem taking one for the team... A town win is a win for me, regardless of whether or not I die... (At least in my eyes)

However, as has already been said by myself and others, this is a really small game... If you guys mislynch me today, then mafia kills one.... That means we just lost two townies and put the game at 4 townies and two scum...One more mislynch ends the game....

Do not lynch me... I am town and there is no other way to prove it...

This is quite possibly the most town thing that you have said all day.

Personally I am not sure what to think on you AD. Part of me think that I should lynch you and the other part thinks that you are a town player. The fact that you've wanted people to claim and threw out some type of "claim" that barely seems like one. (I'm sorry but you can't expect everyone to see that as a claim on first read. I can understand what you were getting at after rereading it but it took that to get it.) It seems there is a kind of lynbaryth of trust that I'm seeing in this game which doesn't make much sense to me as an observer. With quotes like these:

this reeks of an OMGUS vote which isn't good anark, IB votes you first for reasons i'm still trying to put into a coherent sentence, james immediately comes to nark's defense and votes IB before TWO chimes in with his bit of scum distancing case

and then you have nark's response above, nark, why did you choose to vote TWO and not IB?

Because at least IB came to the conclusion on his own... TWO just hopped along for the ride. IB has solid opinions based on logic that I can understand... He does this in most games I see him play in. You will notice I have agreed with him throughout this thread... I look scummy to him for valid reasons, at least, even if they aren't true.

where it seems like you're defending IB with imo little reason to do so.

And I am going to flip town, just so you know... And everyone is still gonna say, "Well gah, look at the way he was playing." Obviously, people didn't remember that this is always how I play... Aggressive, talkative, and foul-mouthed...

This is why I am hesitant to call you mafia, because this is true. I have seen it before. It's not something I can call you out as scummy on.

So for now I'm not going to vote you. However if needed I may do it at the end. For now I will pursue this:

OK, so let's break this down...

2 Prisoners
6 Townies (unless there is a third party, which I don't see Spiesr putting one in such a small game)

Out of those townies, what do you guys think? One cop, one doc? Maybe a JOAT, instead of two separate roles?

[color=#FF0000He said it was a basic game, so I wouldn't think the scum have any roles at all. ][/color]

This first day lynch is going to be critical, more so than most games because of the small number of players and the fact that there are only two enemies.

I also found this post interesting in that you really try to minimize the roles this game may have especially mafia.
As I stated earlier Spiesr said this is a newb friendly game not a basic game. That does not mean mafia can not have roles.

Unlike you I don't sit on the fence

vote Anarkistsdream

Can you say weak reasoning? First of all a new player friendly game tends to be a more basic game. I'm not sure why you think the mafia scummesters would have special roles. I have never seen that in a new player game, and if it is there it's usually weaker roles. I don't see how AD's idea is bad, it seems like common sense here. Why would you vote for him for this? And further more when more votes pile up on him why are you continuing to vote him.. for THIS. Your only post after this one is this on Saturday:

Let me clear something up in regards to claims. I have not been advocating for multiple claims as some may imply. While claiming can be helpful it is also a double edged sword, which I made clear earlier.

Second, what if scenarios and wine in front of me arguments are meaningless.

Which was only in response to something I said. It had nothing to do with the main arguments that were going around in the game. Also it comes in constrast to earlier statements that you made such as:

If he is telling the truth mafia will know it and work around him thus giving them better odds of hitting a pr.

unvote for the reasons given previously

the joke vote ended relatively quickly and we've already pushed him to claim territory

Why would you not want a claim??

Granted Firecoal has answered and offered his excuse but you posted this before the fact.

Vote KGB

Why WOULD you want a claim?

Claims are good when we are about to lynch someone to test to see if their role matches up or is important. Someone who has been started early in Day 1 and doesn't have that much against them is not usually someone you want to claim. In fact at that point it is better for the mafia to get a claim than the town.

I disagree to a point. mafia already knows who is Town but a claim can give them clarity as to who to target.
On the flip side Town is completely blind as to who is who. In my opinion a claim gives Town a starting spot to work from. Lets say the Cop is forced to claim. Mafia is going to have to think twice about targeting the cop for fear of any number of roles. The Doc knows who to protect.

ANYONE can be mafia so this idea that, "Someone who has been started early in Day 1 and doesn't have that much against them is not usually someone you want to claim." is Bologna.

In a game this small we need every bit of info. I look at these games as on big jig saw puzzle.

unvote for the reasons given previously

the joke vote ended relatively quickly and we've already pushed him to claim territory

Why would you not want a claim??

Granted Firecoal has answered and offered his excuse but you posted this before the fact.

Vote KGB

I was reserving my vote until we heard more from Fir but it's becoming more and more difficult with each of your posts James...

i didn't vote against you because i still think Fir shoulda been claiming at L2, i agree with IB that we should definitely get a claim since it's such a small game and Fir arguing against himself claiming smells to high heaven to me..

vote fircoal for not claiming at L2, i think i'm the only vote against him now

I could just be being silly, here, but wouldn't you not want to claim until L-1 in such a small game? My memory could just be wrong...very wrong. It's happened before, but trying to push for a claim when at L-2 just seems off to me.

I understand your point of view.

If we mislynch today would you say the same for tomorrow? For as long as I can remember we have always claimed at L2. It is a habit created created for certain circumstance but which we follow anyways. It is highly doubtful there is a double voter but like I said its better to satay in the habit.

claim time kgb

Which really looks like you're trying to sell your cake and eat it to. You "warn" us about the dangers but at the same time cry out for someone to claim. Then when some claims start popping out like baby bunnies (yay Rabbit sex) you back up and say "Well I didn't want this. I WARNED YOU GUYS." Then you disappear. Considering you seemed to have fathered this wagon on AD at least some it is od that you would disappear and let others do the work for you. But back to the votes. Considering you supported claiming on L-2 in such a small game points more towards a want of people to be claiming. Your reason for claiming at L-2 is very silly. Habit? HABIT? I didn't know that having a "habit" is a good reason to do something stupid. I'm sure adhering to this "habit" will be a nice consolation prize if the town loses. We should not be following our habits so much as doing the smart thing. And in a game like this the smart thing is to not claim at the drop of a hat, but rather claim when it is absolutely nessarly. In a game like this the mafia are looking for the big fries to kill. The more they know the easier it is to get that to happen. (On a semi-related note, imo it's much better to claim in a crazy game than a game like this. Here we just make the mafia's job easier while in a crazy game it tells us a lot more what is going on, and it's easier to check claims for bs. Also it happens that the mafia knowing these roles isn't as good because they don't know if there's better in the wings. They have to decide whether it's a good kill or not while unearthing VT's just says not to kill them.)

In short you did pound for the claims to happen then you backed off said you did nothing of the sort. Put pressure on AD, and then left for the others in the game to handle it while you sulked into the background. You sound unsure of your positions dispite your callings to the opposite. And for that I think you are scum.

Unvote, Vote: Iron Butterfly

[Fircoal]

*insert long post here*

For the record I got fastposted twice so some of my info might be different than when I wrote it.

[JamesKer1]

For now, I'm not so sure about lynching nark. I'm sorry, but hopefully this will be one of my more favorable quick vote changes. I'll go with No lynch for now so we can see how tonight plays out.

Glad to have you back fir.

[Iron Butterfly]

You can WIFOM all you want Firecoal, which I guess is easy for you with a day and a half left. You are the last person who should be talking about standing back and being quiet weather it is real life or not. The last thing I can be accused of is scum marining weather you agree with me or not.

You could argue about having my cake and eating it to I guess, first I want a claim and then I warn against it.

I have stated several times my feelings on claiming both the pros and cons. The claims have been hardly been popping out like bunnies and as far as L@ is concerned I have never played a game where we did not claim at L2 regardless of size. Period.

We now have two VT claims. If you believe them then that means mafia is in a pool of 6 meaning they have 4 players to target tp perhaps kill a PR. They sure as hell wont kill Anarchist or kgb.

certain things convince me that Anarch is truthful but the VT comment and Spiesrs warning helped matters. I held back to gauge other players and I certainly was not disappointed. I am not sure why he was stubborn in just out right claiming though.

unvote Anarchist vote no lynch

[Anarkistsdream]

Weather does not equal whether... Now that my grammar Nazi speech is over...

Sounds to me, IB, like you are backpeddling awfully quick... If you are town, too, then I have no doubt that you will be around tomorrow... Why would the mafia want to get rid of such a potent unknowing ally? (And if you are scum, well, you'll still be here, too, won't you?)

[Fircoal]

You can WIFOM all you want Firecoal, which I guess is easy for you with a day and a half left. You are the last person who should be talking about standing back and being quiet weather it is real life or not. The last thing I can be accused of is scum marining weather you agree with me or not.

You could argue about having my cake and eating it to I guess, first I want a claim and then I warn against it.

I have stated several times my feelings on claiming both the pros and cons. The claims have been hardly been popping out like bunnies and as far as L@ is concerned I have never played a game where we did not claim at L2 regardless of size. Period.

We now have two VT claims. If you believe them then that means mafia is in a pool of 6 meaning they have 4 players to target tp perhaps kill a PR. They sure as hell wont kill Anarchist or kgb.

certain things convince me that Anarch is truthful but the VT comment and Spiesrs warning helped matters. I held back to gauge other players and I certainly was not disappointed. I am not sure why he was stubborn in just out right claiming though.

unvote Anarchist vote no lynch

Just because I have been standing back and being quiet does not mean that I can not accuse you of doing the same thing. Furthermore you look at the details of the case. I said you BROUGHT UP something and then stood back, to distance yourself from what you had done. I have done nothing of the such. I have been basically just defending myself and putting in my limited two cents up until this point. It's not really WIFOM, and the fact that you're putting it into that category makes me feel you're trying to dismiss the case in the easiest possible way. Considering this isn't the first time you brought up WIFOM like this I'm inclined to believe that you're bringing this up to try to push cases off of you:

Let me clear something up in regards to claims. I have not been advocating for multiple claims as some may imply. While claiming can be helpful it is also a double edged sword, which I made clear earlier.

Second, what if scenarios and wine in front of me arguments are meaningless.

As far as the rest is considered. 2 claims out of 8 players does seem like a lot day 1. Especially considering that we have been close to having 3 claims a couple of times. (For example some people stated I should claim when I was in a bit of trouble) And for the record how many games have you played with this small of a group of people?

AD tends to be stubborn. I believe it is not hard to believe he wanted us to get the conclusions ourselves instead of himself stating it outright.

Also I'm well aware of the bad timing of my resurgence, but I don't have much control over that believe it or not. I'm just happy that I'm finally starting to break some stuff out.

Weather does not equal whether... Now that my grammar Nazi speech is over...

Sounds to me, IB, like you are backpeddling awfully quick... If you are town, too, then I have no doubt that you will be around tomorrow... Why would the mafia want to get rid of such a potent unknowing ally? (And if you are scum, well, you'll still be here, too, won't you?)

Thank you for saying what I wanted to say but more concisely. Backpeddling is the perfect way to describe IB's behaviour.

[Iron Butterfly]

Weather does not equal whether... Now that my grammar Nazi speech is over...

Sounds to me, IB, like you are backpeddling awfully quick... If you are town, too, then I have no doubt that you will be around tomorrow... Why would the mafia want to get rid of such a potent unknowing ally? (And if you are scum, well, you'll still be here, too, won't you?)

There is a difference between back peddling and common sense. Perhaps you think we should push for a third person to lynch?

I also get tired of repeating myself.

[new guy1]

For whoever said that I need to be more active or post more or whatever, I almost always post very little to no information unless I have something new to add. Besides that, I either repeat what was said when it is all of a sudden forgotten or I keep silent as to not distract from the current conversations.

As for fircoal's case on IB, I find it to be a good one, possibly the best one in the game so far. I dont want to rush into a lynch, so I wont push for IB's case today. I would like to say that I dont think IB's rebuttal of "Youve been inactive too" is a very good one, as Fircoal has a valid excuse that hes notified us about. He also came in with one of the best cases (IMO) of day 1. I have to agree with IB on the L2 claim. I dont know if it was implemented after Fircoal quit playing alot or not, but Ive always been told claim at L2, no matter the size of the game, as there can be double votes (unlikely here) or a speedlynch. I agree though that we have two claims and that is quite enough for one day, otherwise we lower the pool of players down for PR's, which just helps the mafia.

If we dont get any information from night actions, I would be willing to pursue a case on IB, for reference. Also, since I dont want to push a case too fast, I will Vote No Lynch... I believe this makes it 2 more vote till a no lynch.

[spiesr]

Vote Count:
No Lynch (4): kgb007, JamesKer1, Iron Butterfly, new guy1
Anarkistsdream (2): The Weird One, gregwolf121
The Weird One (1): Anarkistsdream
Iron Butterfly (1): Fircoal

5 Votes required for a lynch.
Deadline: October 22 12:00 MDT

JamesKer1, in the future please use the word "Vote" when voting.

[The Weird One]

I'm not really behind a no lynch. Yes, it is a small game, and we don't want to give the scum a free kill, but, at the same time, I'm not certain we want to waste an opportunity to hit them. All in all, I'm still suspicious of Nark. The claim is just too easy to make...My vote shall stand until I see a better case.

[Anarkistsdream]

I'm not really behind a no lynch. Yes, it is a small game, and we don't want to give the scum a free kill, but, at the same time, I'm not certain we want to waste an opportunity to hit them. All in all, I'm still suspicious of Nark. The claim is just too easy to make...My vote shall stand until I see a better case.

As I said in another game, this isn't "Twelve Angry Men." You aren't the loan juror... your 'stand' doesn't mean squat, brother... I am NOT scummy and if you aren't than find another target... or don't... Two votes against me won't cut it, and will be remembered if something happens in a two person scum group... I do not want anybody town- oh, I mean Vanilla Townie since it is just SO common- to die, and we will certainly lose one through the night... we can't lose two. Or TWO... Get it? A pun with your name

[The Weird One]

I'm not really behind a no lynch. Yes, it is a small game, and we don't want to give the scum a free kill, but, at the same time, I'm not certain we want to waste an opportunity to hit them. All in all, I'm still suspicious of Nark. The claim is just too easy to make...My vote shall stand until I see a better case.

As I said in another game, this isn't "Twelve Angry Men." You aren't the loan juror... your 'stand' doesn't mean squat, brother... I am NOT scummy and if you aren't than find another target... or don't... Two votes against me won't cut it, and will be remembered if something happens in a two person scum group... I do not want anybody town- oh, I mean Vanilla Townie since it is just SO common- to die, and we will certainly lose one through the night... we can't lose two. Or TWO... Get it? A pun with your name

I realize my lone stand means nothing. I'm just leaving my opinion out there. I'm not expecting anybody to follow me or to be held up by me.

[Anarkistsdream]

Alright, folks.... 10 minutes until 12 MDT...

Thank you for not lynching me... I really am town.

[spiesr]

Fear began to grip the citizens of Waterdale. They knew the escaped convicts had infiltrated their midsts and soon no one knew who to trust. They tried hunt for the hidden danger but everywhere they searched they only found that which seemed to belong. As the sun hung low in the sky the search was called off. No one wanted to be caught out at night with those men on the loose. The citizens retired to their homes looking back at what they are feared may be their last sunset.

Final Vote Count:
No Lynch (4): kgb007, JamesKer1, Iron Butterfly, new guy1
Anarkistsdream (2): The Weird One, gregwolf121
The Weird One (1): Anarkistsdream
Iron Butterfly (1): Fircoal

5 Votes required for a lynch, Day 1 ends with No Lynch.
Night 1 begins all actions must be in by October 25 12:15 MDT

[spiesr]

The citizens fears were confirmed that morning. As they arrive at the town square they are aghast by the sight before them; the body one of their own, bound, apparently having being drug from his home in the night as a sign of things to come. Nearby a message seemingly scrawled in blood, "with this act a new reign of terror begins, you are not safe, there is nothing you can do, your worlds ends now." As they worked to clear the body away the citizens renewed their resolve to find the demons hiding in their midsts.
gregwolf121, Vanilla Townie has been killed.

With 7 alive 4 votes are required for a lynch.

[Anarkistsdream]

With a one in three shot to hit a mafia member, I am going to....

Well... I have strong suspicions. But I will wait to accuse, in case anybody has something to go on.

[gregwolf121]

well glad i was of some use go town

[JamesKer1]

Sorry to see you go Greg. Definitely not someone I was expecting...

[Anarkistsdream]

Sorry to see you go Greg. Definitely not someone I was expecting...

Nor I... As seldom as he was posting, I didn't understand the need to off him so quickly...

Of course, due to my thought processes, that immediately makes me think the scum is someone decently new to mafia... Of course, someone with experience doesn't kill off the people who post a lot because THOSE are the people who typically get into linguistic trouble...

[Fircoal]

Something important to note. For whatever reason the night only lasted 20 hours. That leads me to believe there was some quick communication going on.

[Anarkistsdream]

Something important to note. For whatever reason the night only lasted 20 hours. That leads me to believe there was some quick communication going on.

I agree, but we've all been fairly communicative in the thread... Fairly.

[Fircoal]

Something important to note. For whatever reason the night only lasted 20 hours. That leads me to believe there was some quick communication going on.

I agree, but we've all been fairly communicative in the thread... Fairly.

Yes. something else to note is that communicating with each other over that time would be hard, so likely the two scummy scums were both on at the same time or one of them decided to send in the action themselves.

[Anarkistsdream]

Something important to note. For whatever reason the night only lasted 20 hours. That leads me to believe there was some quick communication going on.

I agree, but we've all been fairly communicative in the thread... Fairly.

Yes. something else to note is that communicating with each other over that time would be hard, so likely the two scummy scums were both on at the same time or one of them decided to send in the action themselves.

And hoping we have town power roles, they would have had to act extremely quickly, also.