Friends & Enemies & Enemies & That Other Guy - Wolves Won

[PepeAtila]

Vote Count:

Max (1) - Pepe
PMC (1) - Max

No Vote (2) - Loose, PMC

With 4 alive, 3 votes needed for a lynch!

PS: This is the last day, there will not be a night, if town lynch wolf, town wins, if town miss lynch, Wolves wins!

We could also vote no lynch and then there would be a night.

I think it is a bad idea ... I thought Max was the main suspect but this makes me change my mind
unvote vote PMC

[pmchugh]

Sonic like turn around from Pepe there.

As for the content of what he said. I literally just stated that that something was possible, because a mod said it wasn't, I didn't argue for doing it. It might have made sense if LC died, but with him alive he is clear anyway.

[Loose Canon]

PMC is my No1 suspect right now, but there are things I still need to think about.
Last few posts from PMC at least, and probably more.

Pepe is my alternative suspect.

Max is virtually clear - to me anyway.

No vote from me right now.

[PepeAtila]

Sonic like turn around from Pepe there.

As for the content of what he said. I literally just stated that that something was possible, because a mod said it wasn't, I didn't argue for doing it. It might have made sense if LC died, but with him alive he is clear anyway.

It is just to correct the mod ... maybe ... but why do you say that it might have made sense? depending on LC ?

[pmchugh]

Sonic like turn around from Pepe there.

As for the content of what he said. I literally just stated that that something was possible, because a mod said it wasn't, I didn't argue for doing it. It might have made sense if LC died, but with him alive he is clear anyway.

It is just to correct the mod ... maybe ... but why do you say that it might have made sense? depending on LC ?

In standard games it can be simplifying to no lynch at 1v3 because it removes one of the suspects and gives us exra info to analyse based on who they kill. Instead of worrying about 3 others you only need to look at 2. With LC alive and confirmed town, killing him doesn't improve our chances in any way, so scum can just do that and we gain no benefit.

[pmchugh]

PMC is my No1 suspect right now, but there are things I still need to think about.
Last few posts from PMC at least, and probably more.

Pepe is my alternative suspect.

Max is virtually clear - to me anyway.

No vote from me right now.

This goes for everyone, dead or alive, not just you. The most important thing to do in mafia games is to reread, and I don't see anyone doing it really. Reread days after you learn new information, sort by author and reread certain players history etc. You can't be a good town mafia player without it, especially when the games last weeks.

[Loose Canon]

I actually am rereading quite a lot.

[pmchugh]

I actually am rereading quite a lot.

Well it doesn't seem like it cause I am your number one suspect lol. I guess, trust yourself to think clearly, I was double guessing going Max for the same reason you are looking at me. I thought maybe EW was some diabolical genius who pushed his partner day 1 towards lynch, knowing it would fall short and that would help him win in the end.

But in a multi faction game, good players will still operate by the same normal, clear, predictable logic we all do; they start out helping their partners succeed while maintaining a bit of distance .

[Loose Canon]

I agree PMC.
And I'm trying to become the best player I can, and your advice is I think sound advice for every player.

That is part of the reason why I haven't rushed to lynch Pepe and why I'm in no rush to lynch you.

Whoever is lynched its only going to be a best effort based upon careful and hopefully best evidence (for what evidence there is) and feel, and its definitely not going to be definitely correct. Probably 65/35 at best and probably a lot tighter than that.

[pmchugh]

Here's what I think:

(page 33)

viewtopic.php?f=213&t=241319&start=825#p5334818

Unnoficial Vote Count:

Sonic (2) - DDS, PMC
Pepe (1) - Loose

No Vote (3) - Sonic, Max, Pepe

With 6 Alive - 4 Needed for a lynch

I vote DDS:

viewtopic.php?f=213&t=241319&start=825#p5334822

Been reading, I can't see any compelling argument for voting anyone in particular.

When in doubt,

Vote DDS

Loose then says this:

viewtopic.php?f=213&t=241319&start=825#p5334823

Max, get with the programme.

DDS and PMC and YOU are off limits for the lynching today - currently.

If you are Town (and it is only that its bad maths to vote for you because me and PMC agree you are not with Extreme ) you need to vote either Sonic or Pepe.

The Masons are running this town today.

STRONGLY HINTING THAT THE SECOND MASON IS EITHER DDS OR PMC.

I caught that and so did pmc. pmc then KNOWS FOR A FACT that DDS is the second mason.

That explains the DDS night-kill.

pmc is scum. Case in point.

Vote pmc

I honestly don't think it was obviously not you as mason Max. Like all the same logic you apply to me works exactly on you.

Do you really believe that I egged on the mafia team to kill my partner when I asked for EW to be shot?

If you are town, you need to find Pepe. Not just Loose, we need 3 votes and if you vote for me then you lose.

[Loose Canon]

Sorry this is just on the last post I need to have the energy to read everything again.

I don't think sussing out the 2nd mason had any relevance to the killing of DDS. I mean why bother trying to guess the 2nd mason, when you can with certainty kill the declared mason.

No it was either Pepe to confuse, or PMC pretending Pepe was playing confusion or PMC because he figured I'd go for Pepe whereas DDS would be more likely to suss PMC.

Actually I think the last is more logical than the 2nd so it's either Pepe to confuse or PMC for what he thought might be more likely route to victory.

Or it's max, but still can't put max with EW, unless someone else can.

[pmchugh]

The kill does not look like Pepe. Biggest reason to suspect Max, especially since Max seems to have a thing for DDS. I can see how you can apply the same logic to me but its baffling that you somehow excuse Max from being with EW but not me. EW turning on Max at least has "he was unlikely to actually get lynched" as a solid argument given the time and the number of people who had declared it a bad lynch.

[Loose Canon]

if the kill does not look like Pepe, to me PMC it looks like you.

I'm still discounting Max admittedly.

[Loose Canon]

Not so long ago my order of suspects was

1. Pepe
2. sonic
3. PMC
4. Max

And I had virtually decided to vote Sonic

So what has happened / what has changed?

DDS told me he was going to vote PMC because he was curious as to who would follow.

Pepe was the first to follow which would actually add suspicion to Pepe
Sonic followed - Sonics lynching was sealed for DDS and me.

Sonic flipped scum with Traf

This does wipe out my main initial reason for being suspicious of Pepe - a Traf/Pepe fake mutual suspicion end of day 2

This firms up my reason for not suspecting Max - I'd decided Max is very unlikely to be with EW but until then he could have been with Traf

DDS dies instead of me - this confuses me, it lights some suspicious tinder I had on PMC

Max votes PMC - quite confidently

Pepe votes PMC

With Sonic out of the picture the townie scum hunting PMC is less at the top of my mind and the vulture circling vulture possibility of PMC comes to the fore.


All of the above happened for me, really the only thing that is solid is my initial big reason for suspecting Pepe no longer applies.

I suspect until I summon the energy to re-read everything again its actually closer to being a coin flip between PMC and Pepe than it is strong suspicion of PMC over Pepe.


That is where I am and how I've got to where I am now/recently.

[pmchugh]

I mean, maybe I should still be looking at Max because of that kill, but I am kind of losing will in this game. It's been such an uphill struggle for days, getting sonic was hard work because of his post volume count, only to be accused myself today under quite frankly bizarre circumstances. I'd understand if sonic has flipped wolf, but mafia, come on.

I guess if it's Max, I doff my cap to EW for his day 1 play, and blame LC for discounting him

Pepe and Max, one of you is town, I recognise that you are new to this Pepe, but you have to give us more if you are town. Don't be biased by what you already think. Max, if you could actually post more than once a week that would be nice, considering today decides the while game.

[pmchugh]

Not so long ago my order of suspects was

1. Pepe
2. sonic
3. PMC
4. Max

And I had virtually decided to vote Sonic

So what has happened / what has changed?

DDS told me he was going to vote PMC because he was curious as to who would follow.

Pepe was the first to follow which would actually add suspicion to Pepe
Sonic followed - Sonics lynching was sealed for DDS and me.

Sonic flipped scum with Traf

This does wipe out my main initial reason for being suspicious of Pepe - a Traf/Pepe fake mutual suspicion end of day 2

This firms up my reason for not suspecting Max - I'd decided Max is very unlikely to be with EW but until then he could have been with Traf

DDS dies instead of me - this confuses me, it lights some suspicious tinder I had on PMC

Max votes PMC - quite confidently

Pepe votes PMC

With Sonic out of the picture the townie scum hunting PMC is less at the top of my mind and the vulture circling vulture possibility of PMC comes to the fore.


All of the above happened for me, really the only thing that is solid is my initial big reason for suspecting Pepe no longer applies.

I suspect until I summon the energy to re-read everything again its actually closer to being a coin flip between PMC and Pepe than it is strong suspicion of PMC over Pepe.


That is where I am and how I've got to where I am now/recently.

One thing I notice in this whole chain of thought, not a single sentence on why I am or would be suspicious other than the night kill.

[Loose Canon]

PMC I think I'd already posted D4 what was leading to my suspicions of you.
If I went back over them, it would bias my clear my head and reread everything efforts that I intend to do - or at least delay them, whilst I cleared my head again.

[Charle]

Vote Count:

Pepe (1) - PMC
Pmc (2) - Max, Pepe

No Vote (1) - Loose

4 Alive - 3 needed for a lynch!

[pmchugh]

I miss sonic.

[Loose Canon]

Had a full re-read now;

D1
Kong (PMC) prolynch, votes traf, vote becomes unlikely to result in lynch, Kong goes silent - suspicious
Pepe - non comittal, go with crowd, votes Max, unvotes to go with crowd, votes DDS, wants direction, wants advice from Traf, uinvotes, wants to lynch but no consensus, says needs guidance - suspicious
Extreme - votes Traf, not sure who to go for between Traf & Kong. Extreme doubles down on Traf but also says suss on Traf and Sonic as well as Kong. Votes Max - makes it unlikely he is with Max
Max - says little about anything of substance

D2
Pepe - follows DDS with Kong vote , then confused again, then confused again
Max - naff comment re one scum team doesn't kniow other, votes Rag becasue Rag has most votes
EW - votes Traf later unvtes
PMC - replaces Kong, quick read posts - Traf scum, helpful EW = scum EW, doubles down on EW, other stuff, asks if I'm really suss on him, Trebles down on EW, Votes Rag all in the quick read posts.
PMC then later says EW sounding townie these days
PMCagain asks me why I was suss of Kong.

EW and Traf Die

D3

Pepe - wants to follow leadership , I get suspicious of Pepe
Pepe shares ideas but caveats for what they are worth
Votes Max
says his own pinion is not much, I criticise Pepe, Pepe unvotes
Pepe protests when he contributes he gets shut down.
Pepe votes PMC
Pepe comes up with scum probabilities putting Max top
I see 3 posts running of bad or scum analysis
Pepe joins DDS lead first on PMC vote
Max - not much contributuon - votes DDS, I call Max out he unvotes and votes Sonic
PMC - emphasises how perceptive he was about EW
I claim
sounds out Pepe & EW
reminds us again about his early posts on EW
Turns his fire onto Sonic
Asks me if we should no lynch D4 if we lynch correctly D3
Goes against Sonic big time
reemphasises again he can't be with EW
Goes for Sonic again
Sonic/PMC debate what scum should do
says Pepe probably 2nd scum
LC pushes Pepe as scum favourite with sonic 2nd favourite most of D3 I say I'm pretty sure to go for Pepe D4, when Sonic is 3rd vote on PMC, I was pretty well ready to lock down on Sonic anyway but that seals Sonics fate for me.

[Loose Canon]

N3 DDS (mason) killed not me
Is this some gameplay from Pepe (if scum) or did PMC think he would stand a better chance with me than DDS (if PMC is scum)???
Pepe votes Max
Max votes PMC
I discount my Pepe/Traf line from my Pepe suspicions.PMC lays a f***ing mad guild trip on me
PMC votes Pepe
Pepe unvotes Max & votes PMC
PMC lays a losing will to live guilt trip on me.

PMC has been more cagey that Pepe and Max about casting his vote and who to vote for D4, perhaps hes thinking about the 2 in 5 chance of there being a replacement mason, if so which of Pepe and Max would it be.
It might not be cageiness just wanting to make considered decision.
But it could be being cagey and if so why would Town be cagey?

[SoN!c]

I miss sonic.

Sending texts from the other side here : spooky ghost talk : ❤️️ ♥︎ ❤️️ ❤️️ ♥︎ ❤️️ ❤️️ ♥︎ ❤️️ ❤️️ ♥︎ ❤️️ hope you receive it.

[Loose Canon]

PMC I've reread and posted my notes from what I've read.
Its not definite - between you and Pepe (discounting Max still for now) its in my book 55% - 60% you are scum, and 40%-45 Pepe is.

But it will be enough most probably for me to vote for you.

You're gameplay is excellent better than mine and Maxs and Pepes and your gameplay doesn't deserve to lose if you are Town.

My re-reading hasn't done you any favours.

Gotta give you a chance to respond and argue with me and one or t'other of the others - you deserve a pause a pause before I vote at the very least.

[pmchugh]

I keep harping on about my posts on EW because I think its absolutely bonkers that anyone could consider me scum, other than in a mafia forcing me to double triple guess myself kind of way. Maybe I am being unfair as I have that knowledge, I am sure the graveyard chat is thinking the same.

Pepe has gone quiet since you started suspecting me.

Max doesn't even respond to direct questions asked of him, EW was right, we should have lynched him day 1, what use is he here?

As for me being cagey with my vote, here are some things to notice; you are town and you are cagey with your vote, its MYLO, its not obvious. The real question is, why on earth are Max and Pepe so loose with their votes?

[pmchugh]

Also note that, while I would have posted at sonic as mafia, I think I did it with enough intensity that showed I was town. I definitely took heat from mud slinging with him, because people don't read the thread. You somehow seem to think that getting in big fights is just what scum do because sonic was scum and doing it, but its a really bad idea (and note that neither traf nor EW did it) because, if you didn't notice, it draws suspicion and its hard not to slip up. Sonic was in the end, blatant, there was enough evidence to lynch him 10 times over, and I fought hard for him to be killed when I could have just given up and voted Pepe.

I made mistakes too, I started the Rag thing to some extent, but I think that overall I tried to scum hunt in good faith.

Max; if you are town, this is why people vote you every single game. Because of this exact situation. They worry you get left with an obvious choice and don't bother to engage or read while you vote for the wrong player.