What is happening to Conquer Club?

by **n00blet** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:36 am

When my friend first showed this site to me over a year ago, it seemed like a very fun, competitive community. After a long time of dealing with other important things in my life, I decided I would give CC a try. I was instantly hooked: the people were friendly, the gaming was intense, and the atmosphere couldn't have been more enjoyable.

Now where are we?

It seems that an unremitting stream of problems has seized CC by storm. Where one used to be able to read a topic, or browse the forum without coming across more than a few extremely unpleasant individuals, now one can't go through one topic without a troll busting in and flaming everyone in sight, no matter the subforum. The numbers of these individuals has been increasing exponentially over the past month or so, with more and more showing up everyday. Multis are everywhere, with so many reports being filed that the mods (what's left of them) can barely even keep up; many, many reports have gone at least a week before any kind of official response. The updates are few and far between, and are being critiqued and disrespected without thought as to the work that was put into them. Sure, maybe some people don't like rating (I count myself among them), but does it make a terrible difference? There's no need to start riots about not being able to write feedback about the occasional asshat. But when the admins took the hint and tried to make it better, after less than a month, the suggestion topic is taken off of the control panel board, without any real conclusions being drawn beforehand.

And finally, and most disturbingly, wicked is fired. I know I do not stand alone when I say that this is entirely unjust. Firing her because of a "change in behavior" due to an extreme illness is clearly wrong. I, and I know I am not alone on this either, think that her "change in behavior" was by no means a terrible thing. She was clever and told people, including myself, when and why they needed to shut up. Instead of firing her for being one of the most interesting personalities in this community, she should be heralded. After 2 years of tracking and busting countless multis, moderating the incessant trolls, and being a wonderfully entertaining person, her thanks is a nice contribution medal and foot in the ass?

For all of the reasons stated above, I am greatly concerned for the future of this website. Where are we going? Will we be treated to a nice permanent "locky one" before this site even reaches 3 years? Sadly, I can see that many are already protesting about all of the problems stated above, and thus stating that they will not be returning when their premium runs out. Is that what this site is doomed to become? Are all of the great personalities of this site going to be slowly whittled away at until nothing is left but the trolls, multis, and blissfully ignorant ones who are unaware of all that is going on?

by **wrestler1ump** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:38 am

n00blet wrote: Where one used to be able to read a topic, or browse the forum without coming across more than a few extremely unpleasant individuals, now one can't go through one topic without a troll busting in and flaming everyone in sight, no matter the subforum. The numbers of these individuals has been increasing exponentially over the past month or so, with more and more showing up everyday

I completely agree with this statement. It has been true for me especially, that no matter what I post I end up getting flamed outside of flame wars. Of course I will now be piled on by 10 trolls for saying that, but the facts are the facts and twill is not preventing abuse such as this from occurring.

by **Timminz** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:47 am

Well, if what you say is true, conquerclub will dwindle in membership, right. And if the trolls don't have an audience any more, they'll move on. And those of us who stick around after the trolls move on, can start a fresh community, with intelligent conversations, and nobody insulting whump. And life will be grand. Until we tell too many of our friends, and CC becomes popular again.

Oh well. I'm going to go play a speed game, to take my mind off all this.

by **heavycola** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:07 am

..and for 'trolls' read 'people who point out when I am being an arse'.

by **stlcard1521** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:22 am

quit worrying about minor stuff on a video game website and your problems will go away

by **Kemmler** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:17 am

Reset the scores etc and start again

ps Wicked was fired

by **suggs** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:28 am

As long as you understand that CC is not "a community" but an oligarchy with Twill as the fulcrum of power, then it all makes sense and theres nothing to worry about.
Its only a concren if you believe in democracy, community, equality, absurd notions like that.

by **jbrettlip** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:40 am

Personally, if I owned CC, I would get rid of the free membership. Want to see trolls and multis go away? Charge em $25. The forums are fun. Staffing issues take nothing away from the gameplay. If you don't like the forums, stay out of them. I NEVER go the foundry or FW since I don't find either of them entertaining. I view new maps like Xmas gifts. If you know what you are getting, then you aren't as surprised with new maps.

I don't think this site has changed much in the 1+ yr I have been here. The dice are still rigged against everyone. (How this is possible I don't know.) there have been dozens of new maps introduced. Price has stayed low, and for the most part, the site is online all the time.

People like to bitch to bitch. Wicked did a bad job and abused her power. Maybe it was the drugs, or the illness. But if you make your bed you have to sleep in it. No one on here really knows her, she is just another person on the internet. I don't see how not having her around is really going to change anything. Someone else will just step up to be the new worst mod.

by **Kemmler** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:42 am

suggs wrote:As long as you understand that CC is not "a community" but an oligarchy with Twill as the fulcrum of power, then it all makes sense and theres nothing to worry about.
Its only a concren if you believe in democracy, community, equality, absurd notions like that.

lol, don't you worry about saying that?

jbrettlip, I agree for the most part. However, wicked practically runs the place as one of the only active mods, and she does a lot, busting multis and giving bans for people doing the wrong thing. Without hre things will be worse!

by **suggs** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:44 am

jbrettlip wrote:Personally, if I owned CC, I would get rid of the free membership. Want to see trolls and multis go away? Charge em $25. The forums are fun. Staffing issues take nothing away from the gameplay. If you don't like the forums, stay out of them. I NEVER go the foundry or FW since I don't find either of them entertaining. I view new maps like Xmas gifts. If you know what you are getting, then you aren't as surprised with new maps.

I don't think this site has changed much in the 1+ yr I have been here. The dice are still rigged against everyone. (How this is possible I don't know.) there have been dozens of new maps introduced. Price has stayed low, and for the most part, the site is online all the time.

People like to bitch to bitch. Wicked did a bad job and abused her power. Maybe it was the drugs, or the illness. But if you make your bed you have to sleep in it. No one on here really knows her, she is just another person on the internet. I don't see how not having her around is really going to change anything. Someone else will just step up to be the new worst mod.

So you think its Ok for someone to be sacked without ANY good reason being offered, or ANY proir consultation with the paying members of the site?
I f you don't care about this site, then no worries.

by **suggs** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:44 am

Kemmler wrote:
suggs wrote:As long as you understand that CC is not "a community" but an oligarchy with Twill as the fulcrum of power, then it all makes sense and theres nothing to worry about.
Its only a concren if you believe in democracy, community, equality, absurd notions like that.

lol, don't you worry about saying that?

jbrettlip, I agree for the most part. However, wicked practically runs the place as one of the only active mods, and she does a lot, busting multis and giving bans for people doing the wrong thing. Without hre things will be worse!

Please tell me you saw the sarcasm.

by **jbrettlip** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:47 am

As for multi hunting, I have no idea. If she is good at that, keep her on for that purpose. I think most of the problems had to do with her interaction modding the forum and chat. That is where the erratic behavior occurred. She was active on the forums, but active doesn't always equal right.

My point was that this site will go on without her. It existed before, and will exist after. Sure there may be a few bumps in the road, but one person does not make a company. I learned this the hard way, when I quit Wells Fargo adn thought for sure they would have to shut their doors. Apparently, I am easily replaceable!!

by **jbrettlip** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:50 am

suggs wrote:
jbrettlip wrote:Personally, if I owned CC, I would get rid of the free membership. Want to see trolls and multis go away? Charge em $25. The forums are fun. Staffing issues take nothing away from the gameplay. If you don't like the forums, stay out of them. I NEVER go the foundry or FW since I don't find either of them entertaining. I view new maps like Xmas gifts. If you know what you are getting, then you aren't as surprised with new maps.

I don't think this site has changed much in the 1+ yr I have been here. The dice are still rigged against everyone. (How this is possible I don't know.) there have been dozens of new maps introduced. Price has stayed low, and for the most part, the site is online all the time.

People like to bitch to bitch. Wicked did a bad job and abused her power. Maybe it was the drugs, or the illness. But if you make your bed you have to sleep in it. No one on here really knows her, she is just another person on the internet. I don't see how not having her around is really going to change anything. Someone else will just step up to be the new worst mod.

So you think its Ok for someone to be sacked without ANY good reason being offered, or ANY proir consultation with the paying members of the site?
I f you don't care about this site, then no worries.

Employment is generally on at "at will" basis. I can quit my job, or they can fire me with no notice, no warning and no reason. They aren't going to hold a proxy vote of the shareholders of the company I work for, to see if they should fire me. You pay to play multiple games on this site. That is all. Forums are free, playing limited games are free. You aren't involved in staffing decisions.

by **suggs** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:50 am

Of course the site will go on. And in the business world, anyone is replacable.
The point is QUALITY. Will this site be better without Wicked?
No.

Was it a decision that inspires confidence in the future successful marketing of the Product CC?
No.
Should Twill resign?
Yes.

by **suggs** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:51 am

jbrettlip wrote:
suggs wrote:
jbrettlip wrote:Personally, if I owned CC, I would get rid of the free membership. Want to see trolls and multis go away? Charge em $25. The forums are fun. Staffing issues take nothing away from the gameplay. If you don't like the forums, stay out of them. I NEVER go the foundry or FW since I don't find either of them entertaining. I view new maps like Xmas gifts. If you know what you are getting, then you aren't as surprised with new maps.

I don't think this site has changed much in the 1+ yr I have been here. The dice are still rigged against everyone. (How this is possible I don't know.) there have been dozens of new maps introduced. Price has stayed low, and for the most part, the site is online all the time.

People like to bitch to bitch. Wicked did a bad job and abused her power. Maybe it was the drugs, or the illness. But if you make your bed you have to sleep in it. No one on here really knows her, she is just another person on the internet. I don't see how not having her around is really going to change anything. Someone else will just step up to be the new worst mod.

So you think its Ok for someone to be sacked without ANY good reason being offered, or ANY proir consultation with the paying members of the site?
I f you don't care about this site, then no worries.

Employment is generally on at "at will" basis. I can quit my job, or they can fire me with no notice, no warning and no reason. They aren't going to hold a proxy vote of the shareholders of the company I work for, to see if they should fire me. You pay to play multiple games on this site. That is all. Forums are free, playing limited games are free. You aren't involved in staffing decisions.

You're happy with that?
Get some standards.

by **jbrettlip** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:54 am

suggs wrote:Of course the site will go on. And in the business world, anyone is replacable.
The point is QUALITY. Will this site be better without Wicked?
No.

Was it a decision that inspires confidence in the future successful marketing of the Product CC?
No.
Should Twill resign?
Yes.

How do you know the site won't be better without her? That is a bad statement, which will only be true if CC disappears. Cars seemed to still improve since Henry Ford died, and Wicked didn't even invent this site.

I think Twill, Wicked and Lack are manipulating everyone on the site with this story.

by **suggs** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:00 am

I guess its possible.
But since she did a damn fine job, it seems unlikely.
Its the arbitrary nature of the dismissal which is a worrying breach of community responsibility, for which Twill must be disciplined for.
"Ah, but Sugss, life isn't fair , ya know".
The point is to make it fairer.

by **gdeangel** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:53 am

n00blet wrote:She was clever and told people, including myself, when and why they needed to shut up. Instead of firing her for being one of the most interesting personalities in this community, she should be heralded.

I tried to make about the same point in my comment on the "Wicked Got Fired Thread" but nobody seemed to notice. The problems with this site are not due to freemium members. The problems are a result of boredom, stagnation and failure to stay focused on the core value proposition of quality gaming.

A site like this starts off needed to ramp up to a critical mass. Fee membership is the lifeblood for playing. You need a thriving population of players to compete and make the site functional. Running a game search and finding 500 games that are all for the same 10 premium players who make 50 clone games is not going to get people to show up here and play. On the other hand, you do want to have a value proposition for premium membership that works to get those free members to convert to premium.

And content creation. This site is suffering from a breakdown in the control of content creation. That includes everything from the foundry to forums to tournaments. Query: why did they add tournament guidelines to pull tournaments after waiting 30 days and requiring 16 minimum players and also limiting "medal" credit? Because of perceived abuses. Query: why is the foundry adrift in build out ideas that have outstripped the features of the site? Because of a failure to manage the process. Query: why is wicked not happy about the site? Failure to support efforts to reign in content on the forums and in chat.

Once someone makes the leap from playing to the forums, probably because they get bored playing in an "anonymous" environment, they enter the world of sausage making and it's tough to know which end is up. Players have grievances and suggestions that get dismissed out of hand. Tournaments seem to be thriving, but have very little official sanction. Maps abound but the design quality control process is about what you would expect for a site run out of a kid's dorm room.

When a site reaches this state of the world, either two things usually happen: (1) it will get picked up and gobbled up by a bigger portal with the resources to handle the administrative overhead of doing things rights, or (2) it will founder.

by **oVo** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:26 pm

Hmm. I've never expected this site to be or become a democratic institution, have generally found twill to be a publicly rational voice and that Wicked's efforts have always been beneficial to this online forum and community... regardless of how many spiteful trolls out there post to various threads suggesting otherwise.

This is an excellent gaming site and I anticipate it continuing that way for a long time.

edited to improve my speeling