Conquer Club

Now there's a couple of maps that are in development that are about religions conquering one another. Seems like a bad idea to me. You be the judge(s).

HOLYWARS 1250

https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=583&t=227246

Maps like these tend to be more focused on the historical side of things rather than the religious side of things.

Jdsizzleslice wrote:Maps like these tend to be more focused on the historical side of things rather than the religious side of things.

Ok, but I did post a pic of the map, which explicitly says that it's "religions".

Symmetry wrote:

Jdsizzleslice wrote:Maps like these tend to be more focused on the historical side of things rather than the religious side of things.

Ok, but I did post a pic of the map, which explicitly says that it's "religions".

Is that not historical? During the 1200s, Religion played a much larger role in the government of countries than today.

Jdsizzleslice wrote:Maps like these tend to be more focused on the historical side of things rather than the religious side of things.

+1

HitRed wrote:

Jdsizzleslice wrote:Maps like these tend to be more focused on the historical side of things rather than the religious side of things.

+1

JD and HR, I hate to break this to you, but "Mongol Hordes" is not a religion. I kind of wish it was now, having typed that.

Seems like a bad idea to me.

Because why?

symm, make your own map. you'll learn a lot.. Llama created the "Chatters" tournament. These's lot you could do without playing a single game.

IcePack wrote:

Seems like a bad idea to me.

Because why?

A map that's solely about pitting religions against one another? In a completely unhistorical setting? Seems kinda nutso right wing to me.

Symmetry wrote:

IcePack wrote:

Seems like a bad idea to me.

Because why?

A map that's solely about pitting religions against one another? In a completely unhistorical setting? Seems kinda nutso right wing to me.

Didn’t really answer the question. Why is it a bad idea? What is nutso about it?

I think that if the word "Religions" is deleted from the legend, it would also look smoother from a typographical standpoint. So would that not take care of all the issues?

Colors, fonts and styles of everything else should probably be addressed first, imo. I do think the idea is great however it looks like about an hour maybe two in photoshop thus far.

Genghis Khan himself was a Tengriist. Tengrism is a Central Asian religion characterized by shamanism, animism, totemism, poly- and monotheism[1][2][3] and ancestor worship. No one has ever heard of it so likely something else is better.

Anyway, it is considered a religion.

EBConquer wrote:I think that if the word "Religions" is deleted from the legend, it would also look smoother from a typographical standpoint. So would that not take care of all the issues?

Colors, fonts and styles of everything else should probably be addressed first, imo. I do think the idea is great however it looks like about an hour maybe two in photoshop thus far.

lol...and the issue being sym & his trolling? i really think think he should be barred from posting in all the "serious" CC forums until he either A) quits trolling the shit out of them and/or B) ponies up for premium and starts playing some games on here.

As Hinduism is derived from Buddhism, I'd like to know why the Buddhists aren't allowed to kick some serious ass on this map ?????

Keefie wrote:As Hinduism is derived from Buddhism, I'd like to know why the Buddhists aren't allowed to kick some serious ass on this map ?????

In all the areas shown on the map, Buddhists were a minority. The areas with Buddhist majorities were further east, except maybe a bit of the Himalayan region, but that was firmly under Mongol rule.


By Gunawan Kartapranata - Own work combined and redrawed from various sources, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.p ... d=30905152

Keefie wrote:As Hinduism is derived from Buddhism, I'd like to know why the Buddhists aren't allowed to kick some serious ass on this map ?????

Function trumps form - The style of the graphics should not detract from ease of play: borders should be clear, titles and numbers easy to read, colors easy to distinguish, etc...

Form must follow function - Expect to show some flexibility and be prepared to move away from complete geographical accuracy or historical authenticity: the look and theme of the map must be utterly subservient to gameplay and legibility.

What could possibly go wrong with this idea

Ok but what about Orthadox Christianity ?? The great schism occured in 1054. So large parts of what we are led to believe is either the Holy Roman Empire or has been taken over by the Mongols, are areas dominate by Orthodox Christians.

Add the poor old Buddhists to this travesty and it's like having a world cup without half of the world participating.

Keefie wrote:Ok but what about Orthadox Christianity ?? The great schism occured in 1054. So large parts of what we are led to believe is either the Holy Roman Empire or has been taken over by the Mongols, are areas dominate by Orthodox Christians.

Add the poor old Buddhists to this travesty and it's like having a world cup without half of the world participating.

I'm not sure if these quibble's aren't better expressed in the actual map thread than in GD.

Just to touch on it briefly though. The major Orthodox kingdoms remaining after the collapse of Byzantine empire are there -- Serbia, Bulgaria, and Nicea. If I was to quibble with the map somewhat, I think that Rus and Novgorod should switch from Mongol to Orthodox. They were only loosely under Mongol overlordship, and remained mostly self-governing under their Russian (Orthodox) princes. I think it would be more accurate to describe them as Orthodox than Mongol. Still, that's the kind of quibble we should be making in the actual map thread.

Symm please keep maps in the map foundry. We like our quiet peaceful existence.

HitRed wrote:Genghis Khan himself was a Tengriist. Tengrism is a Central Asian religion characterized by shamanism, animism, totemism, poly- and monotheism[1][2][3] and ancestor worship. No one has ever heard of it so likely something else is better.

Anyway, it is considered a religion.

Genghis Khan wasn't alive in 1250, and either way there's absolutely no way to claim that those areas somehow belonged to Tengrism.

In any case, that map is pretty bad anyway, so it's a bit moot.

EBConquer wrote:I think that if the word "Religions" is deleted from the legend, it would also look smoother from a typographical standpoint. So would that not take care of all the issues?

Colors, fonts and styles of everything else should probably be addressed first, imo. I do think the idea is great however it looks like about an hour maybe two in photoshop thus far.

This seems like a sensible solution, although I'd also suggest a change of name to the map.

HitRed wrote:Symm please keep maps in the map foundry. We like our quiet peaceful existence.

Apologies, HR, but I think this discussion has already provided a lot of useful information that could be used to improve the map.

So far people have weighed in on improving:

1) The design
2) The historicity
3) The language
4) The general theme
5) The gameplay

I posted at the same time this thread was made in the map foundry. So far, nobody has replied. Let people have a say, HR. I've found the conversation pretty interesting so far.

HR- you've been pretty negative towards me in this thread, so let me ask you a more positive question- as a mapmaker yourself, and someone who cares about history, what would you change?

Religion was a key driver for war and expansion in the period, as stated in the map intro...

There were a number of religions coming together at the same time, 1250AD:
- the Roman Catholics had taken control over mainland Europe from the last Islamic Caliphate holding in Spain and were repelling Mongol invasion
- the Islamic Caliphates were being attacked from the east by the Mongol Tribes and from the west by the Roman Catholic crusades,
- the northern Eastern Orthodox territories had been taken under Mongol Tribe control and attacked under Roman Catholic crusades
- the Mongol Tribes had been halted in their expansion by their leadership changes and power struggles,
- the Indian Hindus were under attack from the Islamic Caliphates and Mongol Tribes,
- the Oriental Orthodox were under attack from the Islamic Caliphates,
- Crusades continued to Jerusalem
Who will prevail...?


Why not have an historically accurate map with no gaps and missing major regions.

The map is based on the kingdoms/empires at he time (with the areas they ruled/controlled) and then categorised by the rulers religion

This is the way the map has been categorised....The map is based on the kingdoms/empires at he time (with the areas they ruled/controlled) and then categorised by the rulers religion.

Taking a few comments (with the above in mind!)....

Mongol Hordes - The Khan rulers at the time were all still Tengrian rulers, so should probably be Tengrian Mongols.

Eastern Orthodox - The Rus Principalities and Novgorod were effectively under Mongol control in 1250, after the Mongol invasions earlier in the century, this lasted a while

Hinduism - This was by far the dominant religion at the time in the Indian regions, which were independent kingdoms at the time ruled by Hindu kings. Buddhism was peripheral in the region at the time

Buddhism - As pointed out this was more dominant in the region of the Empire of the Great Khan, at the time this was under the control of a Tengrian Mongol Khan.