Conquer Club

It seems like many people I play with whine a lot about their circumstance. Most people recognize this and I myself have been guilty of it from time to time. But, is it that we are really unlucky? Perhaps many have a distorted perception of their luck? I've had many players say something like, 'I guess a high rank like yours is because of luck'. I don't see that as being true. What I see is I put myself in better positions then them many times.

I played a guy thezepman who was a brigadier at the time and he beat me multiple times when I thought I had the game in the bag. Did he get lucky? I believe in part, yes. But I saw that he put himself in great positions for luck to to climb on his back and ride with him to victory. Perhaps playing CC is a combination of skill and luck?

It could be compared to playing Poker. The best players aren't the luckiest ones. They must have some degree of skill to win many times, right? But even they don't win all the time. The best players win 60-70% of the time in poker. They lose the rest of the time. CC seems to be like that. The best players will win the majority of the time. Do they get lucky sometime? Yes, I think so. But they give themselves the opportunities through skill to optimize lucky opportunities.

Is CC a hang out for players who think they are victims? Or are they justified in their viewpoint of others are luckier then them? Do you see yourself as unlucky or lucky?

This right here is what I think:

mattattam wrote:I played a guy thezepman who was a brigadier at the time and he beat me multiple times when I thought I had the game in the bag. Did he get lucky? I believe in part, yes. But I saw that he put himself in great positions for luck to to climb on his back and ride with him to victory. Perhaps playing CC is a combination of skill and luck?

There's a quote somewhere that is along the lines of the harder you work, the luckier you get. If you put yourself in good positions all the time, luck will eventually be on your side.

Yeah, I think in addition to victim mentality there are lots of people with an entitlement complex. They have this idea that they are entitled to win when they face a 18-5 and when they don't, they throw a hissy fit.

I blame karate kid.

http://www.cracked.com/article_18544_ho ... world.html

Interesting article Natty! I think people do have an entitlement complex and therefore a misconstrued viewpoint on what 'should' happen. I think letting go of expectations is a wonderful way to not get caught up in a victim mentality and enjoy your turns on CC more and life in general.

But is blaming movies like karate kid just furthering a victim mentality? It's always someone/something else. Why do we expect the world to be a certain way? Could it be that individual happiness is taking responsibility for what we create in our own lives whether it is a job or a turn we take on CC? I think it's important to point out that personal responsibility is not the same as blaming yourself. Blaming yourself or others is a recipe for depression.

Responsibility is recognizing the part we play in our lives. I think when we take individual responsibility for everything in our lives we claim the power to change it. In other words responsibility is self empowerment. For example when I take responsibility for my lower rank on CC I empower myself to get better. I then can look at what I'm doing that is not working well and what I can do that works better.

To take your article as an example the guy went from job to job and didn't advance much out of college. What could he do to take responsibility and create a successful job and life? Perhaps he isn't doing something that he truly enjoys? Perhaps he isn't pursuing a career that is truly for himself?

So perhaps the way out of a victim mentality is through self responsibility and thus self empowerment to create the change we desire. Is it time to stop being a victim of CC? Is it time to stop being a victim of life? We have the power to do it!

maasman wrote:This right here is what I think:

mattattam wrote:I played a guy thezepman who was a brigadier at the time and he beat me multiple times when I thought I had the game in the bag. Did he get lucky? I believe in part, yes. But I saw that he put himself in great positions for luck to to climb on his back and ride with him to victory. Perhaps playing CC is a combination of skill and luck?

There's a quote somewhere that is along the lines of the harder you work, the luckier you get. If you put yourself in good positions all the time, luck will eventually be on your side.

I agree with this statement. I think we do create our own luck.

Nice posts Matta!

People take probability personal.

mattattam wrote:It could be compared to playing Poker. The best players aren't the luckiest ones. They must have some degree of skill to win many times, right? But even they don't win all the time. The best players win 60-70% of the time in poker. They lose the rest of the time. CC seems to be like that. The best players will win the majority of the time. Do they get lucky sometime? Yes, I think so. But they give themselves the opportunities through skill to optimize lucky opportunities.

It very much is comparable to poker, yes. Chris Ferguson, a very math-oriented poker player put it best...every hand in poker, taken as a single entity, is 99% luck. However, over the course of a year, whether a player wins or loses is really only about 10% luck. And if you're talking about over the course of a career, now it's really only about 2% luck. Which is exactly why you consistently see the same "set of players" at the final tables of the major tournaments.

mattattam wrote:It seems like many people I play with whine a lot about their circumstance. Most people recognize this and I myself have been guilty of it from time to time. But, is it that we are really unlucky? Perhaps many have a distorted perception of their luck? I've had many players say something like, 'I guess a high rank like yours is because of luck'. I don't see that as being true. What I see is I put myself in better positions then them many times.

I played a guy thezepman who was a brigadier at the time and he beat me multiple times when I thought I had the game in the bag. Did he get lucky? I believe in part, yes. But I saw that he put himself in great positions for luck to to climb on his back and ride with him to victory. Perhaps playing CC is a combination of skill and luck?

It could be compared to playing Poker. The best players aren't the luckiest ones. They must have some degree of skill to win many times, right? But even they don't win all the time. The best players win 60-70% of the time in poker. They lose the rest of the time. CC seems to be like that. The best players will win the majority of the time. Do they get lucky sometime? Yes, I think so. But they give themselves the opportunities through skill to optimize lucky opportunities.

Is CC a hang out for players who think they are victims? Or are they justified in their viewpoint of others are luckier then them? Do you see yourself as unlucky or lucky?

I think that for some players it is very hard to accept that they just aren't that good at something, that may might have made just a little mistake somewhere in a game, or that the dice weren't really all that unbalanced.

Also playing 1v1 is most likely to cause this mentality. Often you actually are just the victim of luck. 5 games in a row?

BOOM!!!

I think I'd be breaking the keyboard.

Which is one of the reasons (there are others) that I don't play 1v1.

Woodruff, then I point you back to MrC's thread about the very thing you have been pointlessly arguing about...

Agent 86 wrote:Woodruff, then I point you back to MrC's thread about the very thing you have been pointlessly arguing about...

Why are you pointing back to a discussion about "number of maps" from a discussion about how odds affect things at a localized level versus a long-term level? That doesn't seem like very strong logic, so I'd be very curious as to the connection you're making.

Mr Changsha wrote:

mattattam wrote:It seems like many people I play with whine a lot about their circumstance. Most people recognize this and I myself have been guilty of it from time to time. But, is it that we are really unlucky? Perhaps many have a distorted perception of their luck? I've had many players say something like, 'I guess a high rank like yours is because of luck'. I don't see that as being true. What I see is I put myself in better positions then them many times.

I played a guy thezepman who was a brigadier at the time and he beat me multiple times when I thought I had the game in the bag. Did he get lucky? I believe in part, yes. But I saw that he put himself in great positions for luck to to climb on his back and ride with him to victory. Perhaps playing CC is a combination of skill and luck?

It could be compared to playing Poker. The best players aren't the luckiest ones. They must have some degree of skill to win many times, right? But even they don't win all the time. The best players win 60-70% of the time in poker. They lose the rest of the time. CC seems to be like that. The best players will win the majority of the time. Do they get lucky sometime? Yes, I think so. But they give themselves the opportunities through skill to optimize lucky opportunities.

Is CC a hang out for players who think they are victims? Or are they justified in their viewpoint of others are luckier then them? Do you see yourself as unlucky or lucky?

I think that for some players it is very hard to accept that they just aren't that good at something, that may might have made just a little mistake somewhere in a game, or that the dice weren't really all that unbalanced.

Also playing 1v1 is most likely to cause this mentality. Often you actually are just the victim of luck. 5 games in a row?

BOOM!!!

I think I'd be breaking the keyboard.

Which is one of the reasons (there are others) that I don't play 1v1.

I play 1v1 almost exclusively. I have a 62% winning average. There is luck just like any game type. But, using myself as an example 1v1 isn't all luck.

ok - it's time to hear the other side of the argument.
first - i have to agree. there are players who feel entitled, and if they have that 18 - 5 advantage they should always win.
however, given an advantage of 18 - 5 who should win a high percentage of the time. certainly higher than 60%, probably closer to 75%
but given that advantage and you can win only 55 - 60% of the time gives one pause to look to another explanation.
i do not have records of how often i win or lose at any given advantage (or disadvantage).
i do have records of how often i have won and lost. i know how often i have won and lost generally, and how often at the start of a game (i use the first 3 turns) and how often at crunch time - when you are trying to knock someone out, or re-establishing your viability in a game.
i also know how often i can cash - in at 3 and 4 and 5 cards, and how often i can cash - in on 3 at the start of a game (obviously cashing - in later in the game is a bigger advantage than at the start).
all of the above are pure luck. there is nothing you can do to influence the dice, nor can you control which cards you get.
my records indicate my dice rolls are below the norm and my cash - in rate is also below average.
i concede that positioning your men and choosing who to attack and when are strategic decisions and some are better at it than others - but if you are not lucky with the dice and you constantly have to go to 5 to cash - in something is wrong and not only do i, and i assume others as well, have the right to bitch about it - but also to seek some relief.

oops - typo time. i really should proof read - especially considering my lousy typing ability.
that should read ".....you should win...", not "...who should win..."
sorry.

musicalmaven wrote:oops - typo time. i really should proof read - especially considering my lousy typing ability.
that should read ".....you should win...", not "...who should win..."
sorry.

Hey, at least you're aware of your mistakes. I think caymanmew and 40kguy think they're Shakespeare and Twain.

mattattam wrote:Interesting article Natty! I think people do have an entitlement complex and therefore a misconstrued viewpoint on what 'should' happen. I think letting go of expectations is a wonderful way to not get caught up in a victim mentality and enjoy your turns on CC more and life in general.

But is blaming movies like karate kid just furthering a victim mentality? It's always someone/something else. Why do we expect the world to be a certain way? Could it be that individual happiness is taking responsibility for what we create in our own lives whether it is a job or a turn we take on CC? I think it's important to point out that personal responsibility is not the same as blaming yourself. Blaming yourself or others is a recipe for depression.

Responsibility is recognizing the part we play in our lives. I think when we take individual responsibility for everything in our lives we claim the power to change it. In other words responsibility is self empowerment. For example when I take responsibility for my lower rank on CC I empower myself to get better. I then can look at what I'm doing that is not working well and what I can do that works better.

To take your article as an example the guy went from job to job and didn't advance much out of college. What could he do to take responsibility and create a successful job and life? Perhaps he isn't doing something that he truly enjoys? Perhaps he isn't pursuing a career that is truly for himself?

So perhaps the way out of a victim mentality is through self responsibility and thus self empowerment to create the change we desire. Is it time to stop being a victim of CC? Is it time to stop being a victim of life? We have the power to do it!

This may have been one of my most favorite posts in the GD for a while. Mattattam, we should get you in the 'CC Needs a Shrink' topic.

====

I know when I first started to play, I had the victim mentality---mostly because I didn't understand some of the rules and some of the game settings (and I probably didn't read the instructions, like 90% of the people who visit our website). But once I started to understand the game's mechanics, I found my victim mentality diminished mostly, though indeed the dice could crop it up. But more often than not, if I'm playing a familiar map with familiar settings, and I get bad dice, I mostly just think I need to re-evaluate my strategy to figure out what went wrong.


--Andy

I think in any competitive setting there will be people who complain that the sun was in their eyes.

musicalmaven wrote:ok - it's time to hear the other side of the argument.
first - i have to agree. there are players who feel entitled, and if they have that 18 - 5 advantage they should always win.
however, given an advantage of 18 - 5 who should win a high percentage of the time. certainly higher than 60%, probably closer to 75%
but given that advantage and you can win only 55 - 60% of the time gives one pause to look to another explanation.
i do not have records of how often i win or lose at any given advantage (or disadvantage).
i do have records of how often i have won and lost. i know how often i have won and lost generally, and how often at the start of a game (i use the first 3 turns) and how often at crunch time - when you are trying to knock someone out, or re-establishing your viability in a game.
i also know how often i can cash - in at 3 and 4 and 5 cards, and how often i can cash - in on 3 at the start of a game (obviously cashing - in later in the game is a bigger advantage than at the start).
all of the above are pure luck. there is nothing you can do to influence the dice, nor can you control which cards you get.
my records indicate my dice rolls are below the norm and my cash - in rate is also below average.
i concede that positioning your men and choosing who to attack and when are strategic decisions and some are better at it than others - but if you are not lucky with the dice and you constantly have to go to 5 to cash - in something is wrong and not only do i, and i assume others as well, have the right to bitch about it - but also to seek some relief.

I certainly understand the need to vent, but I personally don't like to hear it! But could your perception of your luck be distorted? There is a tool on CC where it tracks your dice. Perhaps you could get some actual records from this to find out if you are truly more lucky or less lucky then average.

AndyDufresne wrote:

mattattam wrote:Interesting article Natty! I think people do have an entitlement complex and therefore a misconstrued viewpoint on what 'should' happen. I think letting go of expectations is a wonderful way to not get caught up in a victim mentality and enjoy your turns on CC more and life in general.

But is blaming movies like karate kid just furthering a victim mentality? It's always someone/something else. Why do we expect the world to be a certain way? Could it be that individual happiness is taking responsibility for what we create in our own lives whether it is a job or a turn we take on CC? I think it's important to point out that personal responsibility is not the same as blaming yourself. Blaming yourself or others is a recipe for depression.

Responsibility is recognizing the part we play in our lives. I think when we take individual responsibility for everything in our lives we claim the power to change it. In other words responsibility is self empowerment. For example when I take responsibility for my lower rank on CC I empower myself to get better. I then can look at what I'm doing that is not working well and what I can do that works better.

To take your article as an example the guy went from job to job and didn't advance much out of college. What could he do to take responsibility and create a successful job and life? Perhaps he isn't doing something that he truly enjoys? Perhaps he isn't pursuing a career that is truly for himself?

So perhaps the way out of a victim mentality is through self responsibility and thus self empowerment to create the change we desire. Is it time to stop being a victim of CC? Is it time to stop being a victim of life? We have the power to do it!

This may have been one of my most favorite posts in the GD for a while. Mattattam, we should get you in the 'CC Needs a Shrink' topic.

====

I know when I first started to play, I had the victim mentality---mostly because I didn't understand some of the rules and some of the game settings (and I probably didn't read the instructions, like 90% of the people who visit our website). But once I started to understand the game's mechanics, I found my victim mentality diminished mostly, though indeed the dice could crop it up. But more often than not, if I'm playing a familiar map with familiar settings, and I get bad dice, I mostly just think I need to re-evaluate my strategy to figure out what went wrong.


--Andy

Thanks Andy . I think your attitude of re-evaluating your strategy is a much better approach then blaming the dice.

I think it swings both ways. Playing the victim or even having pride in CC accomplishments are rather foolish when so much is based on luck. I like to look at my successes and failures with the same stoic outlook.

Epictetus wrote:Make the best use of what is in your power, and take the rest as it happens.

squishyg wrote:I think in any competitive setting there will be people who complain that the sun was in their eyes.

It was a new glove! I haven't broken it in yet!

Master Fenrir wrote:I think it swings both ways. Playing the victim or even having pride in CC accomplishments are rather foolish when so much is based on luck. I like to look at my successes and failures with the same stoic outlook.

Epictetus wrote:Make the best use of what is in your power, and take the rest as it happens.

I do think it swings both ways, but often you cannot utelize your luck without proper placement and all. I have had games where my opponant made a wrong move after another and he still won... I dont blame myself for loosing that one, it happens. But there are also games where i think, if I had placed there, or something, i would have swept the board, but could not make it now, because of myself. yea those were also my accomplishments, but less proudly boasted about.
Luck is important, but it is not all. I think for those parts you cannot look to luck alone, are the best parts for me.

This thread is kind of awesome. It's like a mix of CC coping strategies for the perils of dice and mind. Real zen stuff man. Don't blame yourself, don't blame your wife, blame the alcohol for making you hit her.

Check out some of the 'How to Break Victim Mentality' blogs/how-to's on the interwebs:
http://www.positivityblog.com/index.php ... rful-tips/

1. Know the benefits of a victim mentality.

There are a few benefits of the victim mentality:

* Attention and validation. You can always get good feelings from other people as they are concerned about you and try to help you out. On the other hand, it may not last for that long as people get tired of it.
* You don’t have to take risks. When you feel like a victim you tend to not take action and then you don’t have to risk for example rejection or failure.
* Don’t have to take the sometimes heavy responsibility. Taking responsibility for you own life can be hard work, you have to make difficult decisions and it is just heavy sometimes. In the short term it can feel like the easier choice to not take personal responsibility.
* It makes you feel right. When you feel like the victim and like everyone else – or just someone else – is wrong and you are right then that can lead to pleasurable feelings.

2. Be ok with not being the victim. ...
3. Take responsibility for your life. ...
4. Gratitude. ...
5. Forgive. ...
6. Turn your focus outward and help someone out. ...
7. Give yourself a break. ...

Someone should write up a CC-geared post using similar steps/methods/discourse!


--Andy

AndyDufresne wrote:Check out some of the 'How to Break Victim Mentality' blogs/how-to's on the interwebs:
http://www.positivityblog.com/index.php ... rful-tips/

1. Know the benefits of a victim mentality.

There are a few benefits of the victim mentality:

* Attention and validation. You can always get good feelings from other people as they are concerned about you and try to help you out. On the other hand, it may not last for that long as people get tired of it.
* You don’t have to take risks. When you feel like a victim you tend to not take action and then you don’t have to risk for example rejection or failure.
* Don’t have to take the sometimes heavy responsibility. Taking responsibility for you own life can be hard work, you have to make difficult decisions and it is just heavy sometimes. In the short term it can feel like the easier choice to not take personal responsibility.
* It makes you feel right. When you feel like the victim and like everyone else – or just someone else – is wrong and you are right then that can lead to pleasurable feelings.

2. Be ok with not being the victim. ...
3. Take responsibility for your life. ...
4. Gratitude. ...
5. Forgive. ...
6. Turn your focus outward and help someone out. ...
7. Give yourself a break. ...

Someone should write up a CC-geared post using similar steps/methods/discourse!


--Andy

Great article Andy. I think I will share this article as my response to excessive complainers on CC. Maybe we should just do a mass email!?!?

Recieved 0 PMs so far from people that want to bet on their bad dice.