Change My Mind

[iAmCaffeine]

I’m pretty sure anyone can figure out how to play a turn. Set up a couple of 4 player classic flat rate games. Show them the ropes. Or even better play team games with them. Obviously if you went and played all of them in several 1v1s that aint ideal.

[zeus111]

no they cant and as i am on competitors sites i cant go into detail with them figured id school them here only to find sites got them blocked ..thanks for trying to assist but im debating on just logging off here permanently..i play speed multi player games mostly and that side is dead ..takes several hours to fill up 6 player games only to have one or two logged off but the high rate of deadbeating has soared its so common place now to see i db its just too frustrating ..

[InnyaFacce]

What was the purpose of starting this thread ?
Exact same topic subject already exists and has been active the past few months
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=152877
Also this topic discusses the same subject matter
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=228768

[xroads]

I’m pretty sure anyone can figure out how to play a turn. Set up a couple of 4 player classic flat rate games. Show them the ropes. Or even better play team games with them. Obviously if you went and played all of them in several 1v1s that aint ideal.

I actually disagree with you on this one.

During my time as a guide, you would be amazed at how many players would say, how do I go, what do I do, and leave.

I estimate over 80% of guide games werent completed, probably due to frustration.

The clunky user interface for a new user sucks ass. It should be off for new users instead of turned on.

[KoolBak]

Yo Icey-P.....

"How fun will it be to play with the same people over and over?"

Lmao. Guess you didn't read my post.

I read it. And do you think it applies to the entire community or just your group?
I’m talking site wide, not you & a few buddies specifically. Most are looking for varied / high level competition not the same thing over and over w the same few people. The topics about the site, not just you.

What??? Well hell.

Arent I part of the whole site? No? Damn.....

[Dukasaur]

I’m pretty sure anyone can figure out how to play a turn. Set up a couple of 4 player classic flat rate games. Show them the ropes. Or even better play team games with them. Obviously if you went and played all of them in several 1v1s that aint ideal.

I actually disagree with you on this one.

During my time as a guide, you would be amazed at how many players would say, how do I go, what do I do, and leave.

I estimate over 80% of guide games werent completed, probably due to frustration.

The clunky user interface for a new user sucks ass. It should be off for new users instead of turned on.

I think even 80% is wildly optimistic. I think something like 95% of guide games aren't completed. I disagree with you that it has anything to do with difficulty. I think a five year old could figure out this game. If they can figure out all those combo attacks on Mortal Kombat, I'm sure they can figure out that clicking on "Begin" will start their turn, and clicking on an enemy will attack. Hell, I played Mortal Kombat for six months, never did manage a combo attack except by pure luck. I never figured out how to jump on the Sargent Pepper thing in Super Mario, either. Conquer Club is probably at one percent of the difficulty level of most games that kids play nowadays.

Jesus, just try comparing this to a flight sim, or even a NASCAR sim. Is there anything on this site even remotely comparing to the difficulty level of trying to adjust the camber on a race car or adjusting the flaps on a Learjet?

Difficulty is not the reason people quit. Boredom is. This game has only the most rudimentary graphics and no sound effects. Not much happens when you click on something. A little number changes from 5 to 3. You might not even notice if you're not watching closely.

When someone arrives expecting a wargame, they click on London, they expect to see Stukas screaming down from the sky, to hear the plane dive and the bombs drop, to see the billowing smoke from explosions and (in the most modern games) to see realistic blood spatter and dismembered bodies. Nothing about seeing a 5 change to a 3 is remotely close to that. Even the simplest adaptations of board games to computer games have basic stuff like that. Axis and Allies has screaming Stukas and thundering machine guns and great music. Even the very, very primitive online adaptation of Third Reich has martial music from various military marches to announce the beginning of a turn. Even the retarded Windows version of Risk has that stupid horse galloping across the screen. It's not much, but it's at least something.

Most people don't stick with CC because, at its core, it is a crushingly dull 2D board game. Even those of us who stick it out do it for social reasons, because we make friends here and feel an obligation to them, not because we enjoy the game, or at least, not much.

[iAmCaffeine]

I’m pretty sure anyone can figure out how to play a turn. Set up a couple of 4 player classic flat rate games. Show them the ropes. Or even better play team games with them. Obviously if you went and played all of them in several 1v1s that aint ideal.

I actually disagree with you on this one.

During my time as a guide, you would be amazed at how many players would say, how do I go, what do I do, and leave.

I estimate over 80% of guide games werent completed, probably due to frustration.

The clunky user interface for a new user sucks ass. It should be off for new users instead of turned on.

I guess I just over-estimated people's common sense, again.

[zeus111]

SSundee
Streamed live on Jun 6, 2018

I’m pretty sure anyone can figure out how to play a turn. Set up a couple of 4 player classic flat rate games. Show them the ropes. Or even better play team games with them. Obviously if you went and played all of them in several 1v1s that aint ideal.

I actually disagree with you on this one.

During my time as a guide, you would be amazed at how many players would say, how do I go, what do I do, and leave.

I estimate over 80% of guide games werent completed, probably due to frustration.

The clunky user interface for a new user sucks ass. It should be off for new users instead of turned on.

I think even 80% is wildly optimistic. I think something like 95% of guide games aren't completed. I disagree with you that it has anything to do with difficulty. I think a five year old could figure out this game. If they can figure out all those combo attacks on Mortal Kombat, I'm sure they can figure out that clicking on "Begin" will start their turn, and clicking on an enemy will attack. Hell, I played Mortal Kombat for six months, never did manage a combo attack except by pure luck. I never figured out how to jump on the Sargent Pepper thing in Super Mario, either. Conquer Club is probably at one percent of the difficulty level of most games that kids play nowadays.

Jesus, just try comparing this to a flight sim, or even a NASCAR sim. Is there anything on this site even remotely comparing to the difficulty level of trying to adjust the camber on a race car or adjusting the flaps on a Learjet?

Difficulty is not the reason people quit. Boredom is. This game has only the most rudimentary graphics and no sound effects. Not much happens when you click on something. A little number changes from 5 to 3. You might not even notice if you're not watching closely.

When someone arrives expecting a wargame, they click on London, they expect to see Stukas screaming down from the sky, to hear the plane dive and the bombs drop, to see the billowing smoke from explosions and (in the most modern games) to see realistic blood spatter and dismembered bodies. Nothing about seeing a 5 change to a 3 is remotely close to that. Even the simplest adaptations of board games to computer games have basic stuff like that. Axis and Allies has screaming Stukas and thundering machine guns and great music. Even the very, very primitive online adaptation of Third Reich has martial music from various military marches to announce the beginning of a turn. Even the retarded Windows version of Risk has that stupid horse galloping across the screen. It's not much, but it's at least something.

Most people don't stick with CC because, at its core, it is a crushingly dull 2D board game. Even those of us who stick it out do it for social reasons, because we make friends here and feel an obligation to them, not because we enjoy the game, or at least, not much.

risk online numbers would surprise you and players i recruited play already elsewhere so have the basics down took time to open account here as have many that just cant grasp this site for whatever reason ..one of the other sites has visual wars u can see armies destroyed with graphic violence https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tl-1tTSW_E&t=67s ..the site offering the most graphics have the numbers playing that blow us away in another tutorial video for same site look at these numbers RISK FACTIONS: WHO CAN TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!
1,383,892 views like i said many ppl love risk 9.4 million subscribed to that channel fyi thats insane dont believe me see for yourself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ErBhco5aTA this is facts not bs ....9.4 million u tube subscribers shows me there is a huge number of online interest ...SSundee Streamed live on Jun 6, 2018 ...in the few short months 1 . 3 million ppl viewed this shows clearly the interest in the game ...cc club take note and get with the times and post a dam 20 min vid

not one other site has the foe option and the 2 main competitors to cc club have numbers of 200 to 400 members playing in real time most times of the day one has over 1000 ..thats not logged on thats playing ...lowest ive seen is 110 playing at a time of day cc club had zero ... if big wham cant take the time to address this issue passing the buck to its non paid mods when sites on life support ..no one can deny daze are numbered

parker

[KoolBak]

Denied.

[DoomYoshi]

This thread should be called Change My Diaper for all the crying in it.

[IcePack]

I’m pretty sure anyone can figure out how to play a turn. Set up a couple of 4 player classic flat rate games. Show them the ropes. Or even better play team games with them. Obviously if you went and played all of them in several 1v1s that aint ideal.

I actually disagree with you on this one.

During my time as a guide, you would be amazed at how many players would say, how do I go, what do I do, and leave.

I estimate over 80% of guide games werent completed, probably due to frustration.

The clunky user interface for a new user sucks ass. It should be off for new users instead of turned on.

I think even 80% is wildly optimistic. I think something like 95% of guide games aren't completed. I disagree with you that it has anything to do with difficulty. I think a five year old could figure out this game. If they can figure out all those combo attacks on Mortal Kombat, I'm sure they can figure out that clicking on "Begin" will start their turn, and clicking on an enemy will attack. Hell, I played Mortal Kombat for six months, never did manage a combo attack except by pure luck. I never figured out how to jump on the Sargent Pepper thing in Super Mario, either. Conquer Club is probably at one percent of the difficulty level of most games that kids play nowadays.

Jesus, just try comparing this to a flight sim, or even a NASCAR sim. Is there anything on this site even remotely comparing to the difficulty level of trying to adjust the camber on a race car or adjusting the flaps on a Learjet?

Difficulty is not the reason people quit. Boredom is. This game has only the most rudimentary graphics and no sound effects. Not much happens when you click on something. A little number changes from 5 to 3. You might not even notice if you're not watching closely.

When someone arrives expecting a wargame, they click on London, they expect to see Stukas screaming down from the sky, to hear the plane dive and the bombs drop, to see the billowing smoke from explosions and (in the most modern games) to see realistic blood spatter and dismembered bodies. Nothing about seeing a 5 change to a 3 is remotely close to that. Even the simplest adaptations of board games to computer games have basic stuff like that. Axis and Allies has screaming Stukas and thundering machine guns and great music. Even the very, very primitive online adaptation of Third Reich has martial music from various military marches to announce the beginning of a turn. Even the retarded Windows version of Risk has that stupid horse galloping across the screen. It's not much, but it's at least something.

Most people don't stick with CC because, at its core, it is a crushingly dull 2D board game. Even those of us who stick it out do it for social reasons, because we make friends here and feel an obligation to them, not because we enjoy the game, or at least, not much.

This is not my experience, at all. Like zeus, I've tried bringing dozens of friends to this site / others who play very similar online strategy games. They aren't expecting flashy graphics and sound effects and leave because its boring. They know what to expect, how flashy and crazy can you really make a risk game? In fact most risk games that try to make it flashy etc make the playing experience worse with it. In fact, most had the opposite expectation, they wanted Risk and knew that there wasn't going to be much flashy stuff, and were totally fine with it. Granted most searching for online games might not be looking for that, but most looking for a RISK game certainly aren't expecting mortal combat level graphics and what not from a risk game.

No, people left cuz after several hours onsite they couldn't figure it out. The few who were willing to give me a few hours to explain it lasted a little better, but even then most things weren't very intuitive. Rules are hard to find, explanations have to be searched for, there is nothing explaining the different settings that can be easily found by the new comer (yes, its there...hidden away if you know where to look).

The few out of that group that are willing to hear someone explain it, or stick it out eventually gave up because of 1) dice (almost exclusively) 2) bad experiences with others 3) still having a hard time finding information on game settings, map xml (killer neutrals), etc.

Comparing CC to flight sims, Mortal Combats, Nascar sims...not really apples to apples. But even those far more complex games things are made far more intuitively, and come with instruction manuals, youtube videos explaining strategies, walking through first turns, games, etc. so that complexity is made ACCESSIBLE to the common game player, and clearly illustrated by its creators / owners through various means and methods.

[CatchersMitt14]

I’m pretty sure anyone can figure out how to play a turn. Set up a couple of 4 player classic flat rate games. Show them the ropes. Or even better play team games with them. Obviously if you went and played all of them in several 1v1s that aint ideal.

I actually disagree with you on this one.

During my time as a guide, you would be amazed at how many players would say, how do I go, what do I do, and leave.

I estimate over 80% of guide games werent completed, probably due to frustration.

The clunky user interface for a new user sucks ass. It should be off for new users instead of turned on.

I think even 80% is wildly optimistic. I think something like 95% of guide games aren't completed. I disagree with you that it has anything to do with difficulty. I think a five year old could figure out this game. If they can figure out all those combo attacks on Mortal Kombat, I'm sure they can figure out that clicking on "Begin" will start their turn, and clicking on an enemy will attack. Hell, I played Mortal Kombat for six months, never did manage a combo attack except by pure luck. I never figured out how to jump on the Sargent Pepper thing in Super Mario, either. Conquer Club is probably at one percent of the difficulty level of most games that kids play nowadays.

Jesus, just try comparing this to a flight sim, or even a NASCAR sim. Is there anything on this site even remotely comparing to the difficulty level of trying to adjust the camber on a race car or adjusting the flaps on a Learjet?

Difficulty is not the reason people quit. Boredom is. This game has only the most rudimentary graphics and no sound effects. Not much happens when you click on something. A little number changes from 5 to 3. You might not even notice if you're not watching closely.

When someone arrives expecting a wargame, they click on London, they expect to see Stukas screaming down from the sky, to hear the plane dive and the bombs drop, to see the billowing smoke from explosions and (in the most modern games) to see realistic blood spatter and dismembered bodies. Nothing about seeing a 5 change to a 3 is remotely close to that. Even the simplest adaptations of board games to computer games have basic stuff like that. Axis and Allies has screaming Stukas and thundering machine guns and great music. Even the very, very primitive online adaptation of Third Reich has martial music from various military marches to announce the beginning of a turn. Even the retarded Windows version of Risk has that stupid horse galloping across the screen. It's not much, but it's at least something.

Most people don't stick with CC because, at its core, it is a crushingly dull 2D board game. Even those of us who stick it out do it for social reasons, because we make friends here and feel an obligation to them, not because we enjoy the game, or at least, not much.

This is not my experience, at all. Like zeus, I've tried bringing dozens of friends to this site / others who play very similar online strategy games. They aren't expecting flashy graphics and sound effects and leave because its boring. They know what to expect, how flashy and crazy can you really make a risk game? In fact most risk games that try to make it flashy etc make the playing experience worse with it. In fact, most had the opposite expectation, they wanted Risk and knew that there wasn't going to be much flashy stuff, and were totally fine with it. Granted most searching for online games might not be looking for that, but most looking for a RISK game certainly aren't expecting mortal combat level graphics and what not from a risk game.

No, people left cuz after several hours onsite they couldn't figure it out. The few who were willing to give me a few hours to explain it lasted a little better, but even then most things weren't very intuitive. Rules are hard to find, explanations have to be searched for, there is nothing explaining the different settings that can be easily found by the new comer (yes, its there...hidden away if you know where to look).

The few out of that group that are willing to hear someone explain it, or stick it out eventually gave up because of 1) dice (almost exclusively) 2) bad experiences with others 3) still having a hard time finding information on game settings, map xml (killer neutrals), etc.

Comparing CC to flight sims, Mortal Combats, Nascar sims...not really apples to apples. But even those far more complex games things are made far more intuitively, and come with instruction manuals, youtube videos explaining strategies, walking through first turns, games, etc. so that complexity is made ACCESSIBLE to the common game player, and clearly illustrated by its creators / owners through various means and methods.

I'm with IP on this one. It's difficult to understand, it's also difficult to explain through chat assuming the NR can find game chat. When you're routinely having to answer the same questions either in game chat or GC/LC it becomes apparent as to what the issues are, whether you believe it's an issue or not it's obviously a barrier to a significant number of people or you wouldn't have to answer the same question so many times. Those are just the people who are willing to stick around long enough to ask as well and not just leave and play fortnite. I also doubt most people who stumble across CC are looking for a war game, they were looking for Risk and most are familiar with the game even if that wasn't what they typed into the search engine.

The other huge issue I see routinely with guide games is they take way too long to fill. People want an instant start game, not one that sits in GC for half an hour before it starts or a game that starts quickly but has two other NRs in the game who will DB and slow the pace.

Also, I'd like to add, I think there is a significant part of our demographic who aren't gamers. I look at my parents and their friends, none are gamers but are all always looking for board games and will play the basic card and board games online. They in no way expect the flash and gore of a modern game, but more importantly for our purposes, they have no gaming background to draw on and they aren't looking to learn. They just want to play a classic board game. No expectations of cities burning and animations of people screaming and dying as blood flies everywhere. Just basic, old fashioned like they played in their dorms, Risk. I'd argue that is a significant portion of our demographic along with the older, retired generation who are looking for ways to spend some time. They for sure aren't looking for a complicated interface when they're happy if they just remember their password.

[IcePack]

1. The other huge issue I see routinely with guide games is they take way too long to fill. People want an instant start game, not one that sits in GC for half an hour before it starts or a game that starts quickly but has two other NRs in the game who will DB and slow the pace.

2. Also, I'd like to add, I think there is a significant part of our demographic who aren't gamers. I look at my parents and their friends, none are gamers but are all always looking for board games and will play the basic card and board games online. They in no way expect the flash and gore of a modern game, but more importantly for our purposes, they have no gaming background to draw on and they aren't looking to learn. They just want to play a classic board game. No expectations of cities burning and animations of people screaming and dying as blood flies everywhere. Just basic, old fashioned like they played in their dorms, Risk. I'd argue that is a significant portion of our demographic along with the older, retired generation who are looking for ways to spend some time. They for sure aren't looking for a complicated interface when they're happy if they just remember their password.

1. Yep, I fully agree here. I know wham spent a shit ton of time on new user interface testing 100 different methods. Funny enough, right around the same time (this is years ago now mind you) my brothers company was going through a similar trial and error experience of another game with similar to CC results. They actually were testing very similar approaches as one another and it was really interesting to hear both of them telling me about the different results and experiences (very similar). The difference was, my brothers company found a method that drastically improved user retention. I felt it was relevant / something CC could potentially implement and drastically improve the retention rates, but wham decided against it. The final decision was they got to choose player or bot on CC, and the result was mediocre improvement. Unfortunately, CC never tried to implement it and therefore lost out on a great opportunity to try something that worked for another gaming company.

2. So much this! +100% agree.

[zeus111]

so let me see if i understand this ..you expect gramps or grandma to log on and grasp concept . that generation is not so savoy online mine just learned to skype ,,,ip u say " people left cuz after several hours onsite they couldn't figure it out." how can we expect older new recruits too ..on site that has the violent graphics also has just normal risk no zombies is offered just old fashion risk ...but the common ground all sites but cc club have is a video tutorial covering there sites basics how to play it ...its really simple to see here its soooooo desperately needed ..that plus the site starving for real time players also has the foe option ,,if you dont play baltic fog trench u dont play very many other speed multi player games in that our competition has our site crushed in daily user numbers playing real time games ,duk says 98 percent of new recruits are leaving if i read that correct theres were site has to start thats crazy we retain 2percent of new recruits loosing as ice pack says 20 percent of paid members last year alone ...

[riskllama]

so let me see if i understand this ..you expect gramps or grandma to log on and grasp concept . that generation is not so savoy online mine just learned to skype ,,,ip u say " people left cuz after several hours onsite they couldn't figure it out." how can we expect older new recruits too ..on site that has the violent graphics also has just normal risk no zombies is offered just old fashion risk ...but the common ground all sites but cc club have is a video tutorial covering there sites basics how to play it ...its really simple to see here its soooooo desperately needed ..that plus the site starving for real time players also has the foe option ,,if you dont play baltic fog trench u dont play very many other speed multi player games in that our competition has our site crushed in daily user numbers playing real time games ,duk says 98 percent of new recruits are leaving if i read that correct theres were site has to start thats crazy we retain 2percent of new recruits loosing as ice pack says 20 percent of paid members last year alone ...

[zeus111]

read it wrong thought mitt was saying something else ...weed legal day was nuts in canada lol irky ...