What can be done to reverse the decline?

[owenshooter]

If this were also in an app I could put on my iphone, I'd be on here all the time again... (I searched in the app store for "conquer club" prior to making this post, ZERO results)

yeah, a whole lot of this... then i wouldn't miss turns like i did this week while travelling...sigh... under 8k, i hope this place can hold together for a bit longer...-Jn

[Shannon Apple]

Ronaldinho, I actually love what you've done with the redesign suggestions. THAT is a great start to what should be aimed for here. It's clean, sharp, modern and attractive. Sure, there might be some compromises on some things, but definitely something I would say "Hey, let's work with this and build on it." Obviously, I have absolutely no say (just pointing that out. Coloured name is just that.) but yeah. In the year 2015, I would be more likely to sign up to that one, than what is there now.

[owenshooter]

funny... my real life best friend of 25 years, clan mate and ex CC partner just joined a few games, after i badgered him into it... guess what? the interface sucks on his ipad, it sucks on his phone, the firewall on his work laptop won't let him pull it up... blah, blah, blah... so, after two 1v1 games and a team game i have had to sit his turns in, because he can't physically take them (thus far... maybe when he gets home from his biz trip). aside from all the separation of the maps and what to hide from new players and snazzing up the page... imagine how awesome it would be to have a mobile app that works... the dude that invented farmville and words with friends lives in a 5 million condo in downtown austin with 2 ferraris and my mom is his girlfriend... Big Wham, make a mobile app, get rich. it is that simple. there is the incentive. make a freaking mobile version of this that will play on an ipad/tablet and smart phones and you are done working... there is the incentive... in the past, team cc has told others to "go ahead and make one for us." yeah, f*ck that, that would turn into a situation just like the free maps!! anyway, goal line, big wham... goal... line... the black jesus has spoken...-Jésus noir

p.s.-more cajun chips than you could ever imagine!!!

[JBlombier]

I will wholeheartedly agree with Owen in this case. Though I wonder... A mobile app is such a no-brainer when it comes to reversing the decline. So two things can be the case:
a. bW has been working on this, because this is the obvious future of CC. It takes time, so we haven't heard from it yet, but we'll have an announcement soon (CC lives another day, yay!)
b. bW thought about the idea, but decided not to follow up on it, because he has another brilliant strategy in mind (Goodbye CC, we all had a good one).

CC is somewhere between these two options. I'd love to hear from the powers that be what direction we're going. Especially when they choose 'another brilliant strategy', because that'll be lovely to watch. I'm sure we'll let Owen do the talking then, too

[mookiemcgee]

Dude, I just figured it out. I know exactly how to reverse the decline!!!

You need to introduce "Community Porn" on the site. Keep the "CC Spirit" involved, situations with scantily clad girls re-enacting the 'great war' scenarios. Keeps everybody happy, but anticipate increase in overall missed turns on the site.

Should you decide to move forward with my plan, i would appreciate a invite to participate in production

[owenshooter]

Dude, I just figured it out. I know exactly how to reverse the decline!!!

You need to introduce "Community Porn" on the site. Keep the "CC Spirit" involved, situations with scantily clad girls re-enacting the 'great war' scenarios. Keeps everybody happy, but anticipate increase in overall missed turns on the site.

Should you decide to move forward with my plan, i would appreciate a invite to participate in production

already exists in off topics...-Jn

[catnipdreams]

I had some free time and was scanning the forums, and this topic caught my eye. I personally use a desktop to play CC, and would never use a mobile device to play, but I understand that others want that option. All this talk about redesigning things, fine with me. But I don't visit CC to look at a snazzy site, I come here to play games, so as long as I can do that, I don't care about the rest of it.

On the topic of retention, though... I almost did not stay to play any games here when I first joined. Everything was very confusing and complicated. I came here because I was playing online Risk on another site, and I wanted to see what other options there were. On the first site (not sure I should name it, but it's a huge site with lots and lots of different games on it), all you did to play a game was click on the name of the game (Risk), select a "humans" options, or a "bots" option, and then the game started. If you wanted to get fancy with a few settings, you could, but it was more effort. For a first time player, all you did was click a couple times, and the map (Classic) was there, and you were playing. No muss, no fuss. When I signed up here on CC, I wasn't even sure how to start playing a game! That is nuts! Whatever else is done, there MUST imho be a very obvious, easy way to start playing. Now that I have a better idea of what's what on the site, I am comfortable, but I think it was something like a week or two after I initially joined, that I tried a game. It took me that long to figure out anything - I wanted to play right away when I first signed up, but couldn't figure out how to! That is sad, for quite a few reasons...

Since I am used to the site now, I have mostly forgotten what exactly was so confusing at first - I think it was mainly that I didn't know what things were important to read and understand, and what was not.

Somehow, when a person first signs up for CC, they need to immediately be playing a speed game, with bots if humans are not available. Joining a game that doesn't start for days is insane for a newcomer - ofc they will likely not come back - why would they? They just wanted to check it out, maybe had a few minutes of free time right then.

[zsp]

Somehow, when a person first signs up for CC, they need to immediately be playing a speed game, with bots if humans are not available. Joining a game that doesn't start for days is insane for a newcomer - ofc they will likely not come back - why would they? They just wanted to check it out, maybe had a few minutes of free time right then.

Absolute gold right here. You have to start somewhere. Getting all the experienced players back is one thing (aka fix the freestyle problems, bring flame wars back, stop the time-outs, etc), but the the retention of new players would drastically increase if catnip's idea were to be somehow implemented. I've seen numerous newbies join and post in the game chat asking for the other players to hurry up, then never play a turn after that. Maybe letting them play a couple speed games upon joining, and then sending them an inbox message/a pop-up message telling them that they've used their maximum newbie speed-game privileges might help teach newbies the norms/rules of this site and how best to continue to play more speed games/while helping them understand that most games will take a while until it is their next turn.

Basics. That's how you improve the site. Basics.

Not all that crazy map-making, obscure rules shit. Basics.

[Dukasaur]

Somehow, when a person first signs up for CC, they need to immediately be playing a speed game, with bots if humans are not available. Joining a game that doesn't start for days is insane for a newcomer - ofc they will likely not come back - why would they? They just wanted to check it out, maybe had a few minutes of free time right then.

The new first-time login screen includes an option to go directly into a speed game with a guide.

[ConfederateSS]

On the topic of retention, though... Everything was very confusing and complicated. When I signed up here on CC, I wasn't even sure how to start playing a game! That is nuts! Whatever else is done, there MUST imho be a very obvious, easy way to start playing. Now that I have a better idea of what's what on the site, I am comfortable, but I think it was something like a week or two after I initially joined, that I tried a game. It took me that long to figure out anything - I wanted to play right away when I first signed up, but couldn't figure out how to! That is sad, for quite a few reasons...

Somehow, when a person first signs up for CC, they need to immediately be playing a speed game, with bots if humans are not available. Joining a game that doesn't start for days is insane for a newcomer - ofc they will likely not come back - why would they? They just wanted to check it out, maybe had a few minutes of free time right then.

------Yes, all the settings are mind blowing......But, I remember the Sign up page...TOLD PEOPLE THEY HAD 24 HOURS TO TAKE A TURN...TAKE 5 min. IN BETWEEN CLASSES OR A MORNING CUP OF COFFEE OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT...I can't remember if they said you could play up to 4 games max. though...or get premium and play as many as you want...... THE NEW PAGE HAS NONE OF THIS...LETTING PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT HAVING 24 HOURS TO TAKE A TURN...or 4 game max..Or what premium offers........But once you joined..You should have seen...Start a game or Join a game...On the left side of the screen...Like it still is...ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...But that 600,000 players is a joke,I'm glad the High Command found room for that... .......Why would anyone want to know about the prices on the sign in page?..

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Somehow, when a person first signs up for CC, they need to immediately be playing a speed game, with bots if humans are not available. Joining a game that doesn't start for days is insane for a newcomer - ofc they will likely not come back - why would they? They just wanted to check it out, maybe had a few minutes of free time right then.

The new first-time login screen includes an option to go directly into a speed game with a guide.

Have you played those? The new player rarely takes a turn in those either.

[Dukasaur]

Somehow, when a person first signs up for CC, they need to immediately be playing a speed game, with bots if humans are not available. Joining a game that doesn't start for days is insane for a newcomer - ofc they will likely not come back - why would they? They just wanted to check it out, maybe had a few minutes of free time right then.

The new first-time login screen includes an option to go directly into a speed game with a guide.

Have you played those? The new player rarely takes a turn in those either.

Yeah, I know. The point is, we're doing what we can, including what catnip suggested, of having new arrivals get a clear link to a game from their initial sign-in, instead of having to go through the Join game process. Even with that, something like 98% of new arrivals never take a single turn, and that's although we are doing what people are suggesting and leading them past the "confusing" menus and directly into a game. Whatever they're expecting when they sign up -- a laser light show, a rock'n'roll soundtrack, naked women, Orcs hitting each other with hammers, who knows -- they're not getting it from the simple, basic 2D game map and its "battle" without blood or the sounds of explosions.

[catnipdreams]

Yeah, I know. The point is, we're doing what we can, including what catnip suggested, of having new arrivals get a clear link to a game from their initial sign-in, instead of having to go through the Join game process. Even with that, something like 98% of new arrivals never take a single turn, and that's although we are doing what people are suggesting and leading them past the "confusing" menus and directly into a game. Whatever they're expecting when they sign up -- a laser light show, a rock'n'roll soundtrack, naked women, Orcs hitting each other with hammers, who knows -- they're not getting it from the simple, basic 2D game map and its "battle" without blood or the sounds of explosions.

I haven't played a guide game, and pay no attention to the log in screen (I just go right to what I want to do - games and clan), so I can't say personally if it is less confusing now than when I signed up a few years ago. I do know that I check out game sites that other people recommend, and my typical behavior is to find the site, glance briefly at the home page, and bring up the game. I want to see the game immediately, and be playing it immediately. I don't want to read about the rules, or options - I just want to see what the main game looks like. If it seems interesting, then I might look more closely at the details. But if I have to fuss at all, I'm out of there...

There are a lot of first person shooter games with all the sounds ( smells, someday!), and so on out there - they personally do not appeal to me at all. I like strategy. Just strategy - it's nice if the maps look pretty, but I want to figure out the strategy, and hope that the dice are not too annoyingly streaky. Maybe CC is struggling to find it's identity? I don't understand the additional non-risk games (apparently I can't even access them - went to look at the tic-tac-toe game that was mentioned here, and got hung) - the other site I mentioned has tons of "other" games on it, all pretty nicely implemented - CC is a specialty site, and I think it's fine to stay that way.

Do we know who actually stays on CC? What they actually like about the site? I don't regularly read the forums, so my apologies if this is already well understood. But it seems to me that this site is a niche site, and should not try to be everything to everybody. So making it look bloodthirsty and Orc-like, when it is not, would not lead to retention for bloody Orc kinds of players. How about getting the core message on the log in page? For me, the core message is that CC is NOT a bloody Orc site! I'll tolerate it (like I tolerated the terrible bot comments until I stopped reading them), but I only tolerate it because I know what lies underneath.

Maybe some kind of poll about what people look for in CC? NOT another knock down, drag out, unending series of posts about this tweak or that tweak, but more of a "core mission" kind of poll?

Hmmmmm.... Maybe a totally different approach? When you first hit the home page, you can instantly play a Classic standard speed game (one at a time), with bots, no log-in, no username, nothing at all to do except play instantly? And you can keep coming back, and play as often as you like, but just Classic speed with bots. Nothing else, no other settings, no other maps, no real humans, no userid/log-in. At least half of the home page is taken up with this free game, and when you click on it, you get it full screen, so you don't have any confusing options (and no ads!). Then once people have been able to casually play the free game, and they are used to it, and they are hungry for more, then they can sign up, wade through all the options, and whatnot.

[iAmCaffeine]

Hmmmmm.... Maybe a totally different approach? When you first hit the home page, you can instantly play a Classic standard speed game (one at a time), with bots, no log-in, no username, nothing at all to do except play instantly? And you can keep coming back, and play as often as you like, but just Classic speed with bots. Nothing else, no other settings, no other maps, no real humans, no userid/log-in. At least half of the home page is taken up with this free game, and when you click on it, you get it full screen, so you don't have any confusing options (and no ads!). Then once people have been able to casually play the free game, and they are used to it, and they are hungry for more, then they can sign up, wade through all the options, and whatnot.

This sounds brilliant.

[owenshooter]

Hmmmmm.... Maybe a totally different approach? When you first hit the home page, you can instantly play a Classic standard speed game (one at a time), with bots, no log-in, no username, nothing at all to do except play instantly? And you can keep coming back, and play as often as you like, but just Classic speed with bots. Nothing else, no other settings, no other maps, no real humans, no userid/log-in. At least half of the home page is taken up with this free game, and when you click on it, you get it full screen, so you don't have any confusing options (and no ads!). Then once people have been able to casually play the free game, and they are used to it, and they are hungry for more, then they can sign up, wade through all the options, and whatnot.

This sounds brilliant.

this is actually the best idea i have heard, concerning CC, in 2 or 3 years... this is brilliant...-Jésus noir

[ds.obsidian]

Here are some of the interactive mockups from my (almost ready) chrome extension.
It completely replaces the Central Command, Join/Start/Find games and game interface pages.
I hope to have a public beta ready by the end of the month.

games list
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/nmz ... html?raw=1

game interface
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/7le ... html?raw=1

[nvrijn]

Two thing I haven't seen mentioned on this thread.

1. How serious is the actual decline? In terms of players? In terms of active games?

2. We have a lot of potential "CC" champions out there (people who play a lot of games). Perhaps some incentive program (medals and other virtual benefits rather than cash) for recruiting paying friends ... Leveraging the champions has worked elsewhere - has it been seriously tested here (apologies if so).

Thanks,

NvRijn

[Ronaldinho]

Here are some of the interactive mockups from my (almost ready) chrome extension.
It completely replaces the Central Command, Join/Start/Find games and game interface pages.
I hope to have a public beta ready by the end of the month.

games list
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/nmz ... html?raw=1

game interface
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/7le ... html?raw=1

Looks very nice dude. I'd love to test the BETA when you release it - Let me know when it's ready.

[jbrettlip]

I'm back and admit that I have t read the 96 pages of decline thread or all 8 pages of this one....mobile technology issues are a major problem for this site. My dice hack doesn't even work anymore, but I am will be recoding it this weekend. Another issue is the mass quantity of maps. It is overwhelming and takes a long time for games to fill.too much variety and too many confusing options. Finally you need a words with friends type interface. Perhaps on classic map only, since that is what is familiar to the general masses. Standard risk rules. As people use that and like it, maybe more would check out the site for the full experience.also I would raise Insomnia Red from the dead and make her post boob pics here for all users to see.

[JBlombier]

Hmmmmm.... Maybe a totally different approach? When you first hit the home page, you can instantly play a Classic standard speed game (one at a time), with bots, no log-in, no username, nothing at all to do except play instantly? And you can keep coming back, and play as often as you like, but just Classic speed with bots. Nothing else, no other settings, no other maps, no real humans, no userid/log-in. At least half of the home page is taken up with this free game, and when you click on it, you get it full screen, so you don't have any confusing options (and no ads!). Then once people have been able to casually play the free game, and they are used to it, and they are hungry for more, then they can sign up, wade through all the options, and whatnot.

I forwarded this quote to a topic in Suggestion, because I think the idea is too brilliant to just fade away in the forums.

At least now it will fade away in two subforums.

[demonfork]

Gangbangs

[loutil]

Cat's idea is a great one and I hope the powers that be will listen.
This site should be bifurcated. The beginners free area where all newcomers start. Set up exactly as Cat suggested. You can play all the classic map bot games you like to understand controls. Maybe add a couple of other maps. After X amount of games they can graduate to the regular site with the promise of real players to play and more options in the style of play. Maybe even have the option of fog, trench, spoils as part of the beginner site. I used to play a MPOG many years ago and everyone started in a beginner area and you had to graduate to the regular site via experience. It made the transition to the more complicated area much easier.

[iAmCaffeine]

Cat's idea is a great one and I hope the powers that be will listen.
This site should be bifurcated. The beginners free area where all newcomers start. Set up exactly as Cat suggested. You can play all the classic map bot games you like to understand controls. Maybe add a couple of other maps. After X amount of games they can graduate to the regular site with the promise of real players to play and more options in the style of play. Maybe even have the option of fog, trench, spoils as part of the beginner site. I used to play a MPOG many years ago and everyone started in a beginner area and you had to graduate to the regular site via experience. It made the transition to the more complicated area much easier.

You're taking it too far. I don't think restrictions should be set. Make things optional.

[owenshooter]

Cat's idea is a great one and I hope the powers that be will listen.
This site should be bifurcated. The beginners free area where all newcomers start. Set up exactly as Cat suggested. You can play all the classic map bot games you like to understand controls. Maybe add a couple of other maps. After X amount of games they can graduate to the regular site with the promise of real players to play and more options in the style of play. Maybe even have the option of fog, trench, spoils as part of the beginner site. I used to play a MPOG many years ago and everyone started in a beginner area and you had to graduate to the regular site via experience. It made the transition to the more complicated area much easier.

there are a half dozen suggestions/variations on this theme within this thread... this is not the best of the lot, but it is still the basic premise... most of them deal with limiting the maps that they can play, not who they can play.. i think that is a huge flaw... don't limit who you can play, LET THEM PLAY!! i remember the joy of beating a high ranking player for the first time... i'm sure may of you do, too... anyway, same basic idea that has been kicked around, and it seems really obvious to everyone...-Jésus noir