conquer cup X - why was I eliminated?

by **dakky21** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:19 am

I don't understand. I didn't deadbeat or whatever.

https://www.conquerclub.com/player.php?mode=autotournament&tournament_id=6637

I had 2 wins out of 9 in last 3 rounds and there are people who had 1/9 but were not eliminated? My record is 7 wins out of 18 games and there are people who got to next round with like 3 out of 18.

Can anyone explain please? To me it looks like only Round 6 of the tourney counted for round 7, not Rounds 4,5 and 6 where I had some wins. It's a mistake in the setup...

For example in rounds 4,5 and 6

48 Lieutenant phersjm 7 3/18 0 0 Active

he has just one win in Round 5 and is Active

I got two wins in Round 5 and I am Eliminated

General Bax also just 1 win in rounds 4-6 and got to round 7.... this looks like a bug to me...

by **dakky21** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:01 am

System obviously doesn't count the score on the scoreboard but looks only for previous round. So you could have 6 wins in first 2 rounds and zero wins in 3rd round and still be eliminated.

Don't understand why those interim rounds even exist if they won't be counted?

by **NomadPatriot** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:12 pm

gotta love CC...
never a non-'predetermined' moment

by **Jdsizzleslice** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:29 pm

The score does not reset until Round 4. Then next in Round 7.

You were eliminated because your record was 2/9 for Rounds 4-7. People that had a record of 3/18 were some of the lowest record that advanced.

This must mean that they won 2+ games in Rounds 4-7, while you only won 2.

I am not sure what determines tiebreaker when same amount of games has been won to advance.

by **CivProBlows** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:54 pm

Jdsizzleslice wrote:You were eliminated because your record was 2/9 for Rounds 4-7. People that had a record of 3/18 were some of the lowest record that advanced.

This must mean that they won 2+ games in Rounds 4-7, while you only won 2.

That is not correct. You are using 'score' and 'record' interchangeably here. Your first sentence above refers to Dakky's SCORE for rounds 4-6, which was 2. Your second sentence refers to the overall RECORD of the lowest ranked players that advanced to Round 7. Record only comes into play when there is a tie between two players' scores. Your third sentence is simply false; multiple players advanced with an overall record of 3/18 and a score of 1 at the end of Round 6 (e.g. current players ranked 62, 63, and 64). Likewise, I see that multiple players that advanced with a score of 2 also have a record of 3/18 (i.e. they should have lost the tiebreaker to Dakky). All of this makes absolutely no sense, but it is true. So, yes, this looks like a bugged system and needs to be explained.

Jdsizzleslice wrote:I am not sure what determines tiebreaker when same amount of games has been won to advance.

Some players with a score of 1 (i.e. one win in rounds 4-6) did not advance to Round 7, while other players with a score of 1 did. This is the point in which your 'record' analysis comes into play. If two players with a score of 1 are compared, overall record is the tiebraker, so a player with a score of 1 and a record of 4/9 would advance over a player with a score of 1 and a record of 3/9. The players that are currently ranked 65-68 had the same score and record at the end of Round 6 as #64 that advanced to Round 7. I am not sure how a tiebreaker is determined in that case, but my guess is that the spot(s) goes to the first player to lock-in the win and achieve the score of 1.

Edited: because dakky21 was on my ignore list, so my previous post was based on the belief that NomadPatriot was the OP.

by **CivProBlows** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:52 pm

dakky21 wrote:System obviously doesn't count the score on the scoreboard but looks only for previous round. So you could have 6 wins in first 2 rounds and zero wins in 3rd round and still be eliminated.

That does not seem to be the case/explanation of the bug. Take player #64, for example (Rockerseatrocks). He won 0 games in Round 6, 1 game in Round 5, and 0 games in Round 4 (= score of 1), with an overall record of 3/18. I can't come up with any reason why he would have advanced over Dakky, who had a score of 2 and a record of 7/18. Dakky really only needed a score of 1 to advance (record=6/18), so this is very confusing . . .

by **Dukasaur** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:11 pm

dakky21 wrote:I don't understand. I didn't deadbeat or whatever.

https://www.conquerclub.com/player.php?mode=autotournament&tournament_id=6637

I had 2 wins out of 9 in last 3 rounds and there are people who had 1/9 but were not eliminated? My record is 7 wins out of 18 games and there are people who got to next round with like 3 out of 18.

Can anyone explain please? To me it looks like only Round 6 of the tourney counted for round 7, not Rounds 4,5 and 6 where I had some wins. It's a mistake in the setup...

For example in rounds 4,5 and 6

48 Lieutenant phersjm 7 3/18 0 0 Active

he has just one win in Round 5 and is Active

I got two wins in Round 5 and I am Eliminated

General Bax also just 1 win in rounds 4-6 and got to round 7.... this looks like a bug to me...

I'm looking and I can't see an explanation. Might be a legitimate bug.

by **Mad777** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:13 pm

This is the tie rules for Auto Tournament:

Scoring

By default scoring is based on number of Game Wins over the entire tournament. However, individual Rounds may Reset the scores, so that the scoring will begin again from that round. When the first round of the Tournament is seeded by score, the player's score at time of joining the tournament is used in that round only. Players that have been inactive (not logged in) for 7 days at the time of the scoring will have their score zeroed.

Ties in Score shall be broken by the following rules, applied in order:

Percentage of wins in the tournament as a whole
The cumulative number of Game rounds required to win the games they have won in the tournament (since the last point reset, or the start of the tournament if no point reset has occurred). Note: winning in less rounds is better.
The order in which the player joined the tournament (first player to join wins)

Now if you look at the bottom of the ranking you may see player with 4/9 records and eliminated, it's because this player at the time of Round 3 and Round 4 he went 7 days without loggin back therefore when Round 4 was ready to start the computer ejected this player who was out of the site for a complete week, this is a fairly new rule that was coded/added by admin from our request and to reduce deadbeating.

Now for the exemple of Dakky I can't found the reason he didn't pass through neither, I would send this to webmaster to gather an explanation.

by **Dukasaur** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:15 pm

Jdsizzleslice wrote:The score does not reset until Round 4. Then next in Round 7.

You were eliminated because your record was 2/9 for Rounds 4-7. People that had a record of 3/18 were some of the lowest record that advanced.

This must mean that they won 2+ games in Rounds 4-7, while you only won 2.

I am not sure what determines tiebreaker when same amount of games has been won to advance.

Normally overall win percentage is the first tiebreaker. He should have won that.

Also, I advanced even though I only won 1 game. This could be a legitimate bug. (And no, lol, I didn't do it.)

by **Mad777** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:18 pm

I have sent a PM to BW and Cc Duke & Dakky...let's find out.

by **dakky21** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:30 pm

I've opened a support ticket few hours ago as well. If I'm going to be kicked out, then at least they should refund the credits. But still not fair.

by **CivProBlows** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:38 pm

dakky21 wrote:I've opened a support ticket few hours ago as well. If I'm going to be kicked out, then at least they should refund the credits. But still not fair.

I would say they should refund your credits AND automatically advance you to Round 8. That wouldn't be a 100% correction, since you would start Round 8 with a score of 0, but at least it would give you a shot. The auto-advance plus credit refund should balance out the handicap.

by **Mad777** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:41 pm

This is an auto tournament, you can’t revert back as you would do with casual tournament. As soon as the automate terminate a player you don’t want to play with coding knowing the risk of a possible freezing and/or bigger further bugging.

by **dakky21** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:47 pm

I agree with Mad on this, nothing can be done further, but creds should be given back. Not fair, but when was CC fair?

by **dakky21** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:52 pm

Mad777 wrote:This is an auto tournament, you can’t revert back as you would do with casual tournament. As soon as the automate terminate a player you don’t want to play with coding knowing the risk of a possible freezing and/or bigger further bugging.

Though I'm out, that leaves the question is it worth playing the first games in rounds 7,8,9 etc if it's based on luck if you will advance to next round. You may have 1 win and get eliminated and someone with 0 wins goes to Round 8. That doesn't make any sense and that will happen if they don't do something with this auto tourney.

by **Dukasaur** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:06 pm

dakky21 wrote:
Mad777 wrote:This is an auto tournament, you can’t revert back as you would do with casual tournament. As soon as the automate terminate a player you don’t want to play with coding knowing the risk of a possible freezing and/or bigger further bugging.

Though I'm out, that leaves the question is it worth playing the first games in rounds 7,8,9 etc if it's based on luck if you will advance to next round. You may have 1 win and get eliminated and someone with 0 wins goes to Round 8. That doesn't make any sense and that will happen if they don't do something with this auto tourney.

I'm sure it's not luck. It's intended to be by score, but it looks like something has glitched.

by **Mad777** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:18 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
dakky21 wrote:
Mad777 wrote:This is an auto tournament, you can’t revert back as you would do with casual tournament. As soon as the automate terminate a player you don’t want to play with coding knowing the risk of a possible freezing and/or bigger further bugging.

Though I'm out, that leaves the question is it worth playing the first games in rounds 7,8,9 etc if it's based on luck if you will advance to next round. You may have 1 win and get eliminated and someone with 0 wins goes to Round 8. That doesn't make any sense and that will happen if they don't do something with this auto tourney.

I'm sure it's not luck. It's intended to be by score, but it looks like something has glitched.

I agree as well, must be a bug somewhere, if not a bug then I can't see what would be the condition to make such elimination rule. It is possible the added "7 days logoff" coding with auto tournament in general messed up the current elimination rules, computer has a lot of data to review before eliminating a player.

by **NomadPatriot** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:20 pm

"glitched" = predetermined..
( someone manipulated something... )
trust CC as far as you can throw them....

by **dakky21** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:29 pm

Mad777 wrote:I agree as well, must be a bug somewhere, if not a bug then I can't see what would be the condition to make such elimination rule. It is possible the added "7 days logoff" coding with auto tournament in general messed up the current elimination rules, computer has a lot of data to review before eliminating a player.

I log in to CC each day so it's not possible I was away for 7 days. Maybe someone else was, but not me.

Then again even if that was the case, the one who was away should have been eliminated, not me who is on site 8 hours per day.

by **Mad777** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:29 pm

NomadPatriot wrote:"glitched" = predetermined..
( someone manipulated something... )
trust CC as far as you can throw them....

glitch
past tense: glitched; past participle: glitched

suffer a sudden malfunction or irregularity.
"her job involves troubleshooting when systems glitch"

Seems like NP dictionary has a glitch as well :lol:

by **Mad777** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:32 pm

dakky21 wrote:
Mad777 wrote:I agree as well, must be a bug somewhere, if not a bug then I can't see what would be the condition to make such elimination rule. It is possible the added "7 days logoff" coding with auto tournament in general messed up the current elimination rules, computer has a lot of data to review before eliminating a player.

I log in to CC each day so it's not possible I was away for 7 days. Maybe someone else was, but not me.

Then again even if that was the case, the one who was away should have been eliminated, not me who is on site 8 hours per day.

What I meant is the add’on may have created a bug somehow while the computer had to decide who to eliminate in this unique situation...I know it worked fine after Round 3 since alfombra got kicked despite he had 4 wins while all of us had 1 and because I remember at that time he was MIA...

by **dakky21** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:39 pm

Computer doesn't "think" lol ... it does what it is programmed to do. If there is a fault in the code, it does the faulty things. Computer is not wrong. Code is wrong. So blame admins for this.

by **Mad777** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:42 pm

dakky21 wrote:Computer doesn't "think" lol ... it does what it is programmed to do. If there is a fault in the code, it does the faulty things. Computer is not wrong. Code is wrong. So blame admins for this.

I know that :lol:

, I'm trying to think what could have been wrong, I will review the games tomorrow and see if I found a "logic" in this

by **mookiemcgee** on Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:12 pm

Wow usually these complaints amount to people not understanding the scoring but Dakky got hosed big time here. In fact it looks like lots of others may have been affected too.

There are also lots of others who won 2 games in the first 3 rounds and were eliminated, while others with only 1 win moved on. RICHARDJOHN played rounds 4-6 yet only had 1 win in the first 3. Whereas General Ly, alfombra , and rmjw10 had 2 or more wins and were eliminated. Did they all just get booted because they ghosted?

Not surprised Nomad wants to complain. if you actually learn how to win more games, that might work better than ranting about how you think the system is rigged. He probably blames the casino for cheating when he loses there too.