[Deadpool] A new private civil discussion forum

[Juan_Bottom]

"peoples arguments are based on beliefs. one belief is no more or less stupid than the next in a lot of cases. Mostly it is how we individually perceive the world around us. the civil discussion is not about ripping apart people or their arguments, its about understanding. you would need to significantly evolve your thinking before you would be welcomed there.

But please, continue to berate the group at its gates. its typical of the extremely liberal minded, i find."

Then congrats on berating/lumping people together right after saying that that is wrong to do.
Also, what about Ann Coulter?
Also, maybe thats because conservatives for the most part are also religious?
And maybe berating people who believe in Creationism and Unicorns is funny? In fact, in your words:

"If someone beliefs the earth is a flat circle resting on the backs of four elephants who in turn rest on a giant turtle which flies through space, then I can point out that that is a very stupid belief that is inherently stupider than the belief that we're on a huge ball of earth and rock and nuclear reactions."
Same difference, ya know?

I believe SNORRI1234 hit it on the nose here:

Because you are free to talk about "typical liberal/communist hypocrisy" and being an obnoxious cunt, but god forbid someone else does it!

A belief is different from an experiance. If someone says "I once saw a guy make the Statue of Liberty disappear." that is something completely different from "I believe in magic."
People experiance different things yes, but it's those of us barred from the "discussion" that are the ones who know enough to think/ask about what happened during that "experiance." And then try to find the most likely explination.
Now if said person decides to believe in magic based on that "experiance," then yes, that persons belief is inheritly stupid.
If you're going to believe whatever, I don't/won't care.... but if you open your mouth about it, you better know what you're talking about. That's just how the world works.

Now that same conversation with me added into it,
"I once saw a guy make the Statue of LIberty Disappear."
"Oh really?, That's Cool"
"Yes, so I believe in magic."
"Dude, it's a common camera trick, don't be such an idiot."
"............"


Sure, if this forum says I can't say idiot, then fine, I wont. I used the word just to make the point that if someone really is making a stupid life decision, I have been/am free to tell them so. I'm certian that the root of words like stupid, idiot, and retard are not insults.

So I would amend ELK's original statement and say this instead: Peoples arguments are based on beliefs and/or facts. So one belief is usually more or less stupid than the next in a lot of cases.





But I can see what is going on here though, is this "discussion" better than the ones inside the forum?

[black elk speaks]

"peoples arguments are based on beliefs. one belief is no more or less stupid than the next in a lot of cases. Mostly it is how we individually perceive the world around us. the civil discussion is not about ripping apart people or their arguments, its about understanding. you would need to significantly evolve your thinking before you would be welcomed there.

But please, continue to berate the group at its gates. its typical of the extremely liberal minded, i find."

Then congrats on berating/lumping people together right after saying that that is wrong to do.
Also, what about Ann Coulter?
Also, maybe thats because conservatives for the most part are also religious?
And maybe berating people who believe in Creationism and Unicorns is funny? In fact, in your words:

"If someone beliefs the earth is a flat circle resting on the backs of four elephants who in turn rest on a giant turtle which flies through space, then I can point out that that is a very stupid belief that is inherently stupider than the belief that we're on a huge ball of earth and rock and nuclear reactions."
Same difference, ya know?

I believe SNORRI1234 hit it on the nose here:

Because you are free to talk about "typical liberal/communist hypocrisy" and being an obnoxious cunt, but god forbid someone else does it!

A belief is different from an experiance. If someone says "I once saw a guy make the Statue of Liberty disappear." that is something completely different from "I believe in magic."
People experiance different things yes, but it's those of us barred from the "discussion" that are the ones who know enough to think/ask about what happened during that "experiance." And then try to find the most likely explination.
Now if said person decides to believe in magic based on that "experiance," then yes, that persons belief is inheritly stupid.
If you're going to believe whatever, I don't/won't care.... but if you open your mouth about it, you better know what you're talking about. That's just how the world works.

Now that same conversation with me added into it,
"I once saw a guy make the Statue of LIberty Disappear."
"Oh really?, That's Cool"
"Yes, so I believe in magic."
"Dude, it's a common camera trick, don't be such an idiot."
"............"


Sure, if this forum says I can't say idiot, then fine, I wont. I used the word just to make the point that if someone really is making a stupid life decision, I have been/am free to tell them so. I'm certian that the root of words like stupid, idiot, and retard are not insults.

So I would amend ELK's original statement and say this instead: Peoples arguments are based on beliefs and/or facts. So one belief is usually more or less stupid than the next in a lot of cases.





But I can see what is going on here though, is this "discussion" better than the ones inside the forum?

I don't think that there was anything wrong with what I said. I merely suggested that the extremist in snorri was displaying the typical behavior of bashing and berating. The extreme conservative is guilty of the same thing only at the other end of the spectrum.

[Snorri1234]

Has someone been reading Discworld lately

Lately? I read them all the time. I do have a problem finding the translated versions though. The dutch translation is very good and my dad insists we only buy those.

[Snorri1234]

I don't think that there was anything wrong with what I said. I merely suggested that the extremist in snorri was displaying the typical behavior of bashing and berating. The extreme conservative is guilty of the same thing only at the other end of the spectrum.

It has nothing to do with "extremism". It has everything to do with people being idiots. I say the same thing to communists, free market fundies or white supremacists. Your beliefs are not based on facts.

And also holy shit did you just miss the point of Juan's post? You are a massive hypocrit because you blame people for making fallacies and then commit them yourself.

[black elk speaks]

I don't think that there was anything wrong with what I said. I merely suggested that the extremist in snorri was displaying the typical behavior of bashing and berating. The extreme conservative is guilty of the same thing only at the other end of the spectrum.

It has nothing to do with "extremism". It has everything to do with people being idiots. I say the same thing to communists, free market fundies or white supremacists. Your beliefs are not based on facts.

And also holy shit did you just miss the point of Juan's post? You are a massive hypocrit because you blame people for making fallacies and then commit them yourself.

Then you disagree that extremists demonize people that they find that they disagree with in the realm of their beliefs? I think that you fall perfectly into that category because you seek to demonize those that you find believe differently from you. As for people being idiots, the vast majority of the time people believe what they believe because of the things that have happened to them. Who are you to degrade them because you had a different set of experiences. try to change people, not capitalize on their believe just because you believe that it is misguided. after all, you just might end up being the one that is misguided.

[Juan_Bottom]

Then you disagree that extremists demonize people that they find that they disagree with in the realm of their beliefs? I think that you fall perfectly into that category because you seek to demonize those that you find believe differently from you. As for people being idiots, the vast majority of the time people believe what they believe because of the things that have happened to them. Who are you to degrade them because you had a different set of experiences. try to change people, not capitalize on their believe just because you believe that it is misguided. after all, you just might end up being the one that is misguided.

Then you disagree that extremists demonize people that they find that they disagree with in the realm of their beliefs? I think that you fall perfectly into that category because you seek to demonize those that you find believe differently from you.

I disagree. He is only attacking the beliefs of someone who believes something when the facts point in the opposite direction. Like if I were to say that the sky is yellow, he would call me an idiot. There is a difference.

As for people being idiots, the vast majority of the time people believe what they believe because of the things that have happened to them.

Again, people who cannot seperate an experiance, from a belief really are idiots. For instance, I suffer from sleep paralysis. But I do not believe that I am waking up with the devil sitting on my chest. It's in my brain. Those that understand/actually try to understand a particular happening are not idiots. See the example that I gave before.

Who are you to degrade them because you had a different set of experiences.

I am Juan, king of reasoning! The experiance isn't what I often question(unless it's crazy) It's the thought process afterward. Again, see my previous example. If someone sees something like that disappear, cool! But if they think it was magic then they're being dumb.

try to change people, not capitalize on their believe just because you believe that it is misguided.

It's not what I believe, it's what I KNOW. There's a difference.
Not only that, the core of the members in this group are Christian, no? And they donate every Sunday?
And this is exactly what Christian missionaries do. Only, missionaries are missguided/dumb.

after all, you just might end up being the one that is misguided.

No, in most cases, no.
If I don't know an answer, then I become a listener. But I don't take any old answer. Which is what happens when someone doesn't take the time to seperate a particular experience, from a particular belief.
Like let's say I believe in God. One day I get into a devistating car accident and walk away with only a few cuts and bruises. I would be intertwining my belief with an experience if I gave the credit to a Guardian Angel, and not to my car's safetey features.
The saftey features are real, can be tested, and have been tested(they are 'fact'). The Guardian Angel is invisable, intangible, and with all due reason, illogically the answer as to why I am alive.
It would also be illogical to become Chrisitian over the matter, giving credit to God or an ngel, and not to the car company.

Now myself, if someone came up to me and said "I was in a devistating car accident and lived."
I would say, "Wow, that must have been scary." [not argueing with the experience]
And if they reply "Yeah, but my Guardian Angel saved me."
I would say, "So you were in a convertable without a seatbelt on a drove off a 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 drop off with bombs in your pockett, but this angel guy caught you, deactivated the bombs, and set you down gently at a motel or something?" [dissmissg the belief as it has NO evidence, and therefor is illogical, unless they tell me that that is what happened]

So you see, there is a big difference between beliefs and experiences, and that someones belief really can be silly, or down right stupid. Like what Snorri said:

It has nothing to do with "extremism". It has everything to do with people being idiots. I say the same thing to communists, free market fundies or white supremacists. Your beliefs are not based on facts.

[black elk speaks]

and so we come to my last post on this matter. you are using references to instances that are true. sure, the sky is blue. however, is it really or is it simply that the sky is blue to you, that what you perceive blue to be blue is in fact what I would call yellow? we will never know because you will never see the world through my eyes nor will i ever see the world through yours. i suggest this simply because, through the knowledge of color blindness, it is entirely realistic that people can perceive the same same blue object as being two distinctly different colors.

what snorri suggests is preposterous because he cannot report to be all knowing in every aspect of life any more than you are the king of reason. after all, it was you that suggested that beating the tar out of your sister's racist boyfriend was a rational and sane thing to do. he has views that are different than do you and yet, you would just as soon beat him into submission than to try to help him in a nurturing way to see the error of his way. you would rather strengthen his foundations in racism.

no, the fireside tavern as we call it is more about civil discussion that you will ever know because you folks are absolutists. you refuse to share your beliefs civilly, rather you choose to berate the ideas that people hold never even bothering to ask why they hold them.

its been fun, but i am now going to shut the peep hole and hope that you go away quietly now. you shall not pass.

[Neoteny]

no, the fireside tavern as we call it is more about civil discussion that you will ever know because you folks are absolutists.

This utterly pompous statement was too much to pass up. Even if I were an absolutist, that does not preclude my ability to discuss topics civilly. Additionally, you are rather absolutist in your opinions about we who are left out of this forum, despite the fact that you've only been on the forums a month and can hardly declare yourself an expert on who we are and how we argue. According to your CC birthday, you came at a time when we had been putting up with the same tired arguments, and were slightly bored with the nonsense. You wouldn't know this (unless you are who you say you aren't), yet will likely not take it into account. You have ignored our arguments and failed to think about any of this despite your, I'm sure, epic civility and open-mindedness. So you are essentially a hypocrite for stating things as you have. I no longer have any urge to join your farce, but I am hesitant to stand by while you puff yourself up about your civility, while not expressing a shred of it.

I can say, without giving two shits about what you think of me or my opinions: "f*ck you, you pretentious ass. I hope your hard-on at your illusion of elitism helps you blow the load of your life."

[Juan_Bottom]

You're like, the king of Irony or something.

it was you that suggested that beating the tar out of your sister's racist boyfriend was a rational and sane thing to do. he has views that are different than do you and yet, you would just as soon beat him into submission than to try to help him in a nurturing way to see the error of his way. you would rather strengthen his foundations in racism.

FIRSTLY, Did I say that was why I wanted to fight him? No, It wasn't why at all. How very "civil" of you to twist my words to make my previous arguments seem weaker. You're such a twat.

And what was it that you suggested in that thread again???

SECONDLY wasn't it like your fourth or fifth post directed at me where you said 'I feel like tearing you down...... or was it tearing you apart?' Then you wen't off and made a FW thread about me and never bothered saying a thing to me about it? All because we disagreed?

You are such a hypocritical twat. You are not but arrogant and self-rightious. thelion can do no wrong but everyone else certianly can. At least I can feel better knowing that everyone can at least see you for what you really are.
Now where the hell are the other "FT Mods" at? I want to ask them why they are such tools.

what snorri suggests is preposterous because he cannot report to be all knowing in every aspect of life

And he, like me, would not voice an opinion on such matters, as he would not hold one. Which was kinda a point I made.

you are using references to instances that are true. sure, the sky is blue. however, is it really or is it simply that the sky is blue to you, that what you perceive blue to be blue is in fact what I would call yellow? we will never know because you will never see the world through my eyes nor will i ever see the world through yours. i suggest this simply because, through the knowledge of color blindness, it is entirely realistic that people can perceive the same same blue object as being two distinctly different colors.

Oh no! I am not colorblind, so If I were to say the sky is yellow, I would be dumb. If a colorblind person said to me that the sky is yelly, I would not call them dumb. In fact, I wouldn't insult someone that I didn't know.

[PLAYER57832]

I'd be all for it! My time waxes and wanes, but I have thought much the same myself. It WOULD be nice to debate folks who think differantly without all the mudslinging and ... etc.

[Neoteny]

I'd be all for it! My time waxes and wanes, but I have thought much the same myself. It WOULD be nice to debate folks who think differantly without all the mudslinging and ... etc.

Go ahead and apply. You're sure to get in.

[Juan_Bottom]

I'd be all for it! My time waxes and wanes, but I have thought much the same myself. It WOULD be nice to debate folks who think differantly without all the mudslinging and ... etc.

Go ahead and apply. You're sure to get in.

Wait, is she Republican?

[Neoteny]

I'd be all for it! My time waxes and wanes, but I have thought much the same myself. It WOULD be nice to debate folks who think differantly without all the mudslinging and ... etc.

Go ahead and apply. You're sure to get in.

Wait, is she Republican?

Nah.

[Iliad]

Has someone been reading Discworld lately

Lately? I read them all the time. I do have a problem finding the translated versions though. The dutch translation is very good and my dad insists we only buy those.

I've read the early russian ones, but I read all of them in english.

[Snorri1234]

and so we come to my last post on this matter. you are using references to instances that are true. sure, the sky is blue. however, is it really or is it simply that the sky is blue to you, that what you perceive blue to be blue is in fact what I would call yellow? we will never know because you will never see the world through my eyes nor will i ever see the world through yours. i suggest this simply because, through the knowledge of color blindness, it is entirely realistic that people can perceive the same same blue object as being two distinctly different colors.

That is entirely unrelated to what I normally discuss. You can only discuss these things by using logic and science. I can say that the way the atmosphere bends the light from the sun it makes it appear the type of blue we normally call blue. Whether or not you are colorblind doesn't matter, because it is still the same wavelength regardless of what you call it.
I don't say "you're wrong in my experience", I say "you're wrong because of science". (Or alternatively, wrong because of economics, human nature or logic.)

what snorri suggests is preposterous because he cannot report to be all knowing in every aspect of life

Good thing I don't claim to be.

you refuse to share your beliefs civilly, rather you choose to berate the ideas that people hold never even bothering to ask why they hold them.

That is because I don't care why they hold them if all they have is anecdotes and experience.

[comic boy]

I called him a pretentious smug little git a couple of weeks ago .....All hail comic the mighty soothsayer

PS bloody multis !

[Snorri1234]

Hey. They're closed!


Maybe if we tap on the window they will open again.

[Neoteny]

The irony continues to be overwhelming.

[Juan_Bottom]

The irony continues to be overwhelming.

[MarVal]

This thread will Locked and be tagged in the title with [Deadpool].

The reason is that:

- at this moment the new forming Clan has been canceled.
- the latest posts of this Forming Clan thread doesn't fit the purpose of this thread.

With the forming Clan Leader we decided that this is the only solution for stop spam posts and other posts that don't belong in here.

Grtz
MarVal