Conquer Club

Caymanmew wrote:A clan will ALWAYS be allowed 7 days to fill the other clan's home games. They will receive an extension to fill away games of however many days a home clan is late in creating. Which means if the other clan creates their home games 3 days late, the away clan will be given an extension of 3 days to fill those games without incurring penalties.

I have two questions:
1. What are the penalties for Away team if they fail to fill the games withing 7 days?
2. Since there is no specified deadline for filling home games does that mean that they will have to be filled or with invitations sent in order to be considered as created by the home team?

GoranZ wrote:

Caymanmew wrote:A clan will ALWAYS be allowed 7 days to fill the other clan's home games. They will receive an extension to fill away games of however many days a home clan is late in creating. Which means if the other clan creates their home games 3 days late, the away clan will be given an extension of 3 days to fill those games without incurring penalties.

I have two questions:
1. What are the penalties for Away team if they fail to fill the games withing 7 days?
2. Since there is no specified deadline for filling home games does that mean that they will have to be filled or with invitations sent in order to be considered as created by the home team?

1.
Should the away team fail to fill within 7 day, they will receive a 1-game penalty each day for one week, at which point they forfeit the match, the same penalty as the home team. (this assumes it is past the 6-week deadline + any extra time they get due to the home team going past the 5-week deadline. If for example, you fill your round 1 games 10 days after they were created on say the third week of your 6 weeks, we may look at you with a disapproving gaze, but you are not breaking any rules for the competition and no action would be taken.)


2.
Created just means made, the actual filling of the games just has to happen before the end of the 6-week deadline, which is when all games need to be started by.

This added rule, the 5-week deadline, is to prevent clans from making and filling their games just before the deadline, forcing the away team to go over. We feel it is reasonable to have a week to fill games and as such, all games should be created a week before the 6-week deadline for games starting.

Hope that clarifies it.

Caymanmew wrote:

GoranZ wrote:

Caymanmew wrote:A clan will ALWAYS be allowed 7 days to fill the other clan's home games. They will receive an extension to fill away games of however many days a home clan is late in creating. Which means if the other clan creates their home games 3 days late, the away clan will be given an extension of 3 days to fill those games without incurring penalties.

I have two questions:
1. What are the penalties for Away team if they fail to fill the games withing 7 days?
2. Since there is no specified deadline for filling home games does that mean that they will have to be filled or with invitations sent in order to be considered as created by the home team?

1.
Should the away team fail to fill within 7 day, they will receive a 1-game penalty each day for one week, at which point they forfeit the match, the same penalty as the home team. (this assumes it is past the 6-week deadline + any extra time they get due to the home team going past the 5-week deadline. If for example, you fill your round 1 games 10 days after they were created on say the third week of your 6 weeks, we may look at you with a disapproving gaze, but you are not breaking any rules for the competition and no action would be taken.)


2.
Created just means made, the actual filling of the games just has to happen before the end of the 6-week deadline, which is when all games need to be started by.

This added rule, the 5-week deadline, is to prevent clans from making and filling their games just before the deadline, forcing the away team to go over. We feel it is reasonable to have a week to fill games and as such, all games should be created a week before the 6-week deadline for games starting.

Hope that clarifies it.

Thank you for the clarification that a clan might only make the home games according to the schedule and fill all games(home and away) 1 day before the 6 weeks deadline.
I don't think that the disapproving look will be a deterrent

Thanks again.

GoranZ wrote:Thank you for the clarification that a clan might only make the home games according to the schedule and fill all games(home and away) 1 day before the 6 weeks deadline.
I don't think that the disapproving look will be a deterrent

Thanks again.

That would NOT be acceptable. Though the CD Team will not be as stringent with the Round 1 games, you are still expected to fill them in a timely matter. Understand if you go beyond what is written in the terms of war and the opposing clan has a problem with it, a penalty may be issued. Clans are always more than welcome to come to agreements on how lateness is handled and add that into the OP. The TO/ATO would then enforce those penalties, if need be.

I think if there is a disagreement each clan should choose a member to represent them in negotiation to take place in a neutral site cage match. We could live stream it.

groovysmurf wrote:

GoranZ wrote:Thank you for the clarification that a clan might only make the home games according to the schedule and fill all games(home and away) 1 day before the 6 weeks deadline.
I don't think that the disapproving look will be a deterrent

Thanks again.

That would NOT be acceptable. Though the CD Team will not be as stringent with the Round 1 games, you are still expected to fill them in a timely matter. Understand if you go beyond what is written in the terms of war and the opposing clan has a problem with it, a penalty may be issued. Clans are always more than welcome to come to agreements on how lateness is handled and add that into the OP. The TO/ATO would then enforce those penalties, if need be.

My questions weren't if something is acceptable or not, they were if something is enforced or not. Judging from the written terms of war nothing from what I asked is enforced.

"penalty may be issued"... This is based on TO preference or something else? What may the penalty be? 1 point from the score, 1 point per day, disqualification if the filling of home games is over 1 week late or something else?

rockfist wrote:I think if there is a disagreement each clan should choose a member to represent them in negotiation to take place in a neutral site cage match. We could live stream it.

Heck, I'd pay to watch that!

GoranZ wrote:

groovysmurf wrote:

GoranZ wrote:Thank you for the clarification that a clan might only make the home games according to the schedule and fill all games(home and away) 1 day before the 6 weeks deadline.
I don't think that the disapproving look will be a deterrent

Thanks again.

That would NOT be acceptable. Though the CD Team will not be as stringent with the Round 1 games, you are still expected to fill them in a timely matter. Understand if you go beyond what is written in the terms of war and the opposing clan has a problem with it, a penalty may be issued. Clans are always more than welcome to come to agreements on how lateness is handled and add that into the OP. The TO/ATO would then enforce those penalties, if need be.

My questions weren't if something is acceptable or not, they were if something is enforced or not. Judging from the written terms of war nothing from what I asked is enforced.

"penalty may be issued"... This is based on TO preference or something else? What may the penalty be? 1 point from the score, 1 point per day, disqualification if the filling of home games is over 1 week late or something else?

In an event like Conquerors Cup, there are the event rules (which are strictly enforced by the TO/ATO of the event) and there are the war terms for the individual wars. Things are deliberately more loose for the war terms so that clans can customize various things to their liking. If a clan goes against the agreed upon terms and the other clan has a problem with it, the CD team steps in. This is how it has always been. It is our job to facilitate wars and step in, IF NEEDED. In most cases, if there are issues with a clan not adhering to the war terms, the clans are able to work it out amongst themselves.

In any situation, the inflection point in which a penalty will be issued and what that penalty is will be decided by the TO/ATO/CD Team in a situation by situation basis. In any such case, ample warning would be given to establish the ruling and give the offending clan the opportunity to act. For example, if a clan is 3 days late on filling a deadline and the opposing clan complains, a message will be sent asking why and depending the situation, a new deadline and punishment for not meeting this deadline will be established. For instance, if games are not filled within 48 hours, 1 game will be forfeited and another for every additional 24 hours.

Stricter, more precise guidelines and punishments for going against war terms were never really necessary in the past. A handshake or gentleman's (gentleperson's) agreement was enough to ensure that clans would, at least for the most part, stick to the agreed upon terms. If your refusal to comply means we have to write up precise punishments for all wars, even casual wars, then so be it; I thought this was a site that attracted like-minded, considerate individuals. Hopefully I am not wrong.

groovysmurf wrote:

GoranZ wrote:

groovysmurf wrote:

GoranZ wrote:Thank you for the clarification that a clan might only make the home games according to the schedule and fill all games(home and away) 1 day before the 6 weeks deadline.
I don't think that the disapproving look will be a deterrent

Thanks again.

That would NOT be acceptable. Though the CD Team will not be as stringent with the Round 1 games, you are still expected to fill them in a timely matter. Understand if you go beyond what is written in the terms of war and the opposing clan has a problem with it, a penalty may be issued. Clans are always more than welcome to come to agreements on how lateness is handled and add that into the OP. The TO/ATO would then enforce those penalties, if need be.

My questions weren't if something is acceptable or not, they were if something is enforced or not. Judging from the written terms of war nothing from what I asked is enforced.

"penalty may be issued"... This is based on TO preference or something else? What may the penalty be? 1 point from the score, 1 point per day, disqualification if the filling of home games is over 1 week late or something else?

In an event like Conquerors Cup, there are the event rules (which are strictly enforced by the TO/ATO of the event) and there are the war terms for the individual wars. Things are deliberately more loose for the war terms so that clans can customize various things to their liking. If a clan goes against the agreed upon terms and the other clan has a problem with it, the CD team steps in. This is how it has always been. It is our job to facilitate wars and step in, IF NEEDED. In most cases, if there are issues with a clan not adhering to the war terms, the clans are able to work it out amongst themselves.

In any situation, the inflection point in which a penalty will be issued and what that penalty is will be decided by the TO/ATO/CD Team in a situation by situation basis. In any such case, ample warning would be given to establish the ruling and give the offending clan the opportunity to act. For example, if a clan is 3 days late on filling a deadline and the opposing clan complains, a message will be sent asking why and depending the situation, a new deadline and punishment for not meeting this deadline will be established. For instance, if games are not filled within 48 hours, 1 game will be forfeited and another for every additional 24 hours.

Stricter, more precise guidelines and punishments for going against war terms were never really necessary in the past. A handshake or gentleman's (gentleperson's) agreement was enough to ensure that clans would, at least for the most part, stick to the agreed upon terms. If your refusal to comply means we have to write up precise punishments for all wars, even casual wars, then so be it; I thought this was a site that attracted like-minded, considerate individuals. Hopefully I am not wrong.

Correction:

Participating clans are solely and totally responsible for meeting the 6 week deadline. There will be no mercy. Not meeting the deadline will have consequences.

This is from the OP, and this is how it was always done. This was done precisely so that the TO/ATO/CD Team did not have to come up with a penalty on a "situation by situation" basis.

Lx

fishydance wrote:

rockfist wrote:I think if there is a disagreement each clan should choose a member to represent them in negotiation to take place in a neutral site cage match. We could live stream it.

Heck, I'd pay to watch that!

If TOFU was involved I'm pretty sure I'd get to watch it free.

Lindax wrote:

groovysmurf wrote:
In an event like Conquerors Cup, there are the event rules (which are strictly enforced by the TO/ATO of the event) and there are the war terms for the individual wars. Things are deliberately more loose for the war terms so that clans can customize various things to their liking. If a clan goes against the agreed upon terms and the other clan has a problem with it, the CD team steps in. This is how it has always been. It is our job to facilitate wars and step in, IF NEEDED. In most cases, if there are issues with a clan not adhering to the war terms, the clans are able to work it out amongst themselves.

In any situation, the inflection point in which a penalty will be issued and what that penalty is will be decided by the TO/ATO/CD Team in a situation by situation basis. In any such case, ample warning would be given to establish the ruling and give the offending clan the opportunity to act. For example, if a clan is 3 days late on filling a deadline and the opposing clan complains, a message will be sent asking why and depending the situation, a new deadline and punishment for not meeting this deadline will be established. For instance, if games are not filled within 48 hours, 1 game will be forfeited and another for every additional 24 hours.

Stricter, more precise guidelines and punishments for going against war terms were never really necessary in the past. A handshake or gentleman's (gentleperson's) agreement was enough to ensure that clans would, at least for the most part, stick to the agreed upon terms. If your refusal to comply means we have to write up precise punishments for all wars, even casual wars, then so be it; I thought this was a site that attracted like-minded, considerate individuals. Hopefully I am not wrong.

Correction:

Participating clans are solely and totally responsible for meeting the 6 week deadline. There will be no mercy. Not meeting the deadline will have consequences.

This is from the OP, and this is how it was always done. This was done precisely so that the TO/ATO/CD Team did not have to come up with a penalty on a "situation by situation" basis.

Lx

I am well aware of that and do specifically say that in the first line above. The rest is about the war terms for the individual wars, which do not have precise penalties for various situations and are handled on a case by case basis. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Or goranz could drop the whole stupid continuation of the originally stupid point he thinks he is making and either play or dont play.

Nut Shot Scott wrote:Or goranz could drop the whole stupid continuation of the originally stupid point he thinks he is making and either play or dont play.

Yeah and I could suddenly bench 500 in today's training session too.

I mean I haven't gone to the gym yet it "could" happen right?

No need for such comments.

From what I understand, whether tha games are filled at "creation date" is up to clans to decide when they agree to terms.

Participating clans are solely and totally responsible for meeting the 6 week deadline. There will be no mercy. Not meeting the deadline will have consequences.

This is from the OP, and this is how it was always done. This was done precisely so that the TO/ATO/CD Team did not have to come up with a penalty on a "situation by situation" basis.

Lx[/quote]

I am well aware of that and do specifically say that in the first line above. The rest is about the war terms for the individual wars, which do not have precise penalties for various situations and are handled on a case by case basis. Sorry if that wasn't clear.[/quote]

I guess you don't understand what l was saying. Look at Extreme's comment. It is/was always supposed to be between clans whatever happens in the 6 weeks. No CD involvement, no sanctions.

Lx

Lindax wrote:

Participating clans are solely and totally responsible for meeting the 6 week deadline. There will be no mercy. Not meeting the deadline will have consequences.

This is from the OP, and this is how it was always done. This was done precisely so that the TO/ATO/CD Team did not have to come up with a penalty on a "situation by situation" basis.

Lx

I am well aware of that and do specifically say that in the first line above. The rest is about the war terms for the individual wars, which do not have precise penalties for various situations and are handled on a case by case basis. Sorry if that wasn't clear.[/quote]

I guess you don't understand what l was saying. Look at Extreme's comment. It is/was always supposed to be between clans whatever happens in the 6 weeks. No CD involvement, no sanctions.

Lx

Thanks for your input. However the TO/ATO can and will get involved if it looks like an issue will impact the 6 week deadline and have an impact on the overall tournament schedule.

Now this is a sign up thread, let's keep it that way.

Keefie wrote:

groovysmurf wrote:

Lindax wrote:

Participating clans are solely and totally responsible for meeting the 6 week deadline. There will be no mercy. Not meeting the deadline will have consequences.

This is from the OP, and this is how it was always done. This was done precisely so that the TO/ATO/CD Team did not have to come up with a penalty on a "situation by situation" basis.

Lx

I am well aware of that and do specifically say that in the first line above. The rest is about the war terms for the individual wars, which do not have precise penalties for various situations and are handled on a case by case basis. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Lindax wrote:I guess you don't understand what l was saying. Look at Extreme's comment. It is/was always supposed to be between clans whatever happens in the 6 weeks. No CD involvement, no sanctions.

Lx

Thanks for your input. However the TO/ATO can and will get involved if it looks like an issue will impact the 6 week deadline and have an impact on the overall tournament schedule.

Now this is a sign up thread, let's keep it that way.

As this is the only CC13 thread, and there are some very obvious marked deltas between CC12, where else would you like those of us who have questions to post?

Keefie wrote:

Lindax wrote:

Participating clans are solely and totally responsible for meeting the 6 week deadline. There will be no mercy. Not meeting the deadline will have consequences.

This is from the OP, and this is how it was always done. This was done precisely so that the TO/ATO/CD Team did not have to come up with a penalty on a "situation by situation" basis.

Lx

I am well aware of that and do specifically say that in the first line above. The rest is about the war terms for the individual wars, which do not have precise penalties for various situations and are handled on a case by case basis. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

I guess you don't understand what l was saying. Look at Extreme's comment. It is/was always supposed to be between clans whatever happens in the 6 weeks. No CD involvement, no sanctions.

Lx

Thanks for your input. However the TO/ATO can and will get involved if it looks like an issue will impact the 6 week deadline and have an impact on the overall tournament schedule.

Now this is a sign up thread, let's keep it that way.

If that is the case, I suggest you change this rule:

Participating clans are solely and totally responsible for meeting the 6 week deadline. There will be no mercy. Not meeting the deadline will have consequences.

Lx

Jdsizzleslice wrote:As this is the only CC13 thread, and there are some very obvious marked deltas between CC12, where else would you like those of us who have questions to post?

Here.

The only real "delta" is an addition of a rule to have all games created by the 5 week mark. Technically this was already the case, but we've added specific penalties if this is not done. This rule was added because of issues from the last few Conqueror Cups.

groovysmurf wrote:

Jdsizzleslice wrote:As this is the only CC13 thread, and there are some very obvious marked deltas between CC12, where else would you like those of us who have questions to post?

Here.

The only real "delta" is an addition of a rule to have all games created by the 5 week mark. Technically this was already the case, but we've added specific penalties if this is not done. This rule was added because of issues from the last few Conqueror Cups.

Caymanmew wrote:

• There will be a hard set deadline of 5 weeks to have all games created. If a clan does not have all home games created by the 5 week deadline, one game will be forfeited for every day that clan fails to create their games. If after 1 week there are still games that have not been created, the offending clan will be disqualified.
• A clan will ALWAYS be allowed 7 days to fill the other clan's home games. They will receive an extension to fill away games of however many days a home clan is late in creating. Which means if the other clan creates their home games 3 days late, the away clan will be given an extension of 3 days to fill those games without incurring penalties.
• If the games are created on time and the away clan fails to fill those games within the 6 week deadline, they will forfeit one game for every day they are late in filling. If after 1 week there are still games that have not been started, the offending clan will be disqualified.

To be eligible for the Clan Achievement Medal for the overall win of CC13 (or second place), a player must:

• Play in a minimum of 7% of their clans' total games
• Participate in a minimum of 2 rounds

To be eligible for the Clan Achievement Medal for the MVP of CC13, a player must:

• Play in a minimum of 20% of their clans' total games
• Play in all rounds of the tournament
• Have a clean record with regards to game abuse

Note: The winning clan chooses the MVP, who will receive an additional achievement award and 1200 CC Credits.

Here are all the highlighted deltas (at face value, assuming the highlighted items are the only thing that changed from CC12 to CC13 threads). These are pretty big deltas, especially since the highlighted language includes a statement about loss of games from the event, and about the criterion on a clan's ability to choose MVP.

Firstly, what specific examples from previous CC Events caused this change in the rules? Why deduct only one game per day if in one week the clan would be fully disqualified? Per Lindax's prior point, I don't remember having to disqualify a clan for not meeting the 6-week requirement.

Lindax wrote:Btw: There were never any issues with the 6 week deadline in my time.

Secondly, the winning clan would play in 208 complete games without a first round bye, and 165 with a first round bye.

• With 208 games, 20% minimum is 41.6 games to qualify for MVP. So will 41 games qualify or will 42 games need to be played?
• With 165 games, 20% minimum is 33 games.

What was the reasoning behind changing the MVP criterion from a solid number threshold to a percentage criterion? Was there any consideration to why potentially 10 games extra (from 32 in previous CCs) would have to be played for a player to be eligible for an MVP award? This could potentially punish a clan who had to play in the first round by extending the criterion to a percentage-based number. Is there a valid scenario where a clan wins CC but has no eligible members for an MVP award based off the new criterion you have enacted for CC13?

Was there any consideration to discuss these changes to CC in CAT before implementation?

groovysmurf wrote:

GoranZ wrote:

groovysmurf wrote:

GoranZ wrote:Thank you for the clarification that a clan might only make the home games according to the schedule and fill all games(home and away) 1 day before the 6 weeks deadline.
I don't think that the disapproving look will be a deterrent

Thanks again.

That would NOT be acceptable. Though the CD Team will not be as stringent with the Round 1 games, you are still expected to fill them in a timely matter. Understand if you go beyond what is written in the terms of war and the opposing clan has a problem with it, a penalty may be issued. Clans are always more than welcome to come to agreements on how lateness is handled and add that into the OP. The TO/ATO would then enforce those penalties, if need be.

My questions weren't if something is acceptable or not, they were if something is enforced or not. Judging from the written terms of war nothing from what I asked is enforced.

"penalty may be issued"... This is based on TO preference or something else? What may the penalty be? 1 point from the score, 1 point per day, disqualification if the filling of home games is over 1 week late or something else?

In an event like Conquerors Cup, there are the event rules (which are strictly enforced by the TO/ATO of the event) and there are the war terms for the individual wars. Things are deliberately more loose for the war terms so that clans can customize various things to their liking. If a clan goes against the agreed upon terms and the other clan has a problem with it, the CD team steps in. This is how it has always been. It is our job to facilitate wars and step in, IF NEEDED. In most cases, if there are issues with a clan not adhering to the war terms, the clans are able to work it out amongst themselves.

In any situation, the inflection point in which a penalty will be issued and what that penalty is will be decided by the TO/ATO/CD Team in a situation by situation basis. In any such case, ample warning would be given to establish the ruling and give the offending clan the opportunity to act. For example, if a clan is 3 days late on filling a deadline and the opposing clan complains, a message will be sent asking why and depending the situation, a new deadline and punishment for not meeting this deadline will be established. For instance, if games are not filled within 48 hours, 1 game will be forfeited and another for every additional 24 hours.

Stricter, more precise guidelines and punishments for going against war terms were never really necessary in the past. A handshake or gentleman's (gentleperson's) agreement was enough to ensure that clans would, at least for the most part, stick to the agreed upon terms. If your refusal to comply means we have to write up precise punishments for all wars, even casual wars, then so be it; I thought this was a site that attracted like-minded, considerate individuals. Hopefully I am not wrong.

It all depends... In CC12 we changed the schedule of the war(without asking the reason) to accommodate S&M's leader to have a party trip with his friends(we learned the reason 10 days before the deadline). And after multiple delays(allegedly he messed up the dates but in fact he extended his vacation) 3/4 of the games started 1-2 days before the deadline, half of our Away games started by the Home team and all that so S&M's leader to have the ability to start the games when ever he sees fit.

Nothing personal or against CD team but we ask our selves only one question. How much considerate should we be in CC13?

Nut Shot Scott wrote:Or goranz could drop the whole stupid continuation of the originally stupid point he thinks he is making and either play or dont play.

I play fair and by the rules. And please refrain your self from bait posts like "either play or dont play". Its is not up to you what I should do.

GoranZ wrote:In CC12 we changed the schedule of the war(without asking the reason) to accommodate S&M's leader to have a party trip with his friends(we learned the reason 10 days before the deadline). And after multiple delays(allegedly he messed up the dates but in fact he extended his vacation)

Holy sh!t! Someone wanted to take a vacation and it delayed your games by a week and a half? stop the presses. please. fck off with this - you dont get paid for this, it's a niche game on a site with a small group of players. if you can't shrug your shoulders and say "of course we can wait a few extra days while you enjoy life a bit" then what the fck is wrong with you? what an awful person you must be to deal with on a regular basis.

Nut Shot Scott wrote:Or goranz could drop the whole stupid continuation of the originally stupid point he thinks he is making and either play or dont play.

I play fair and by the rules. And please refrain your self from bait posts like "either play or dont play". Its is not up to you what I should do.

I know comprehension is difficult but... you have two options - play or don't play. It's not up to me, it's just the way things are. Like it or don't.

Interested in clans? Check out the Fallen!

Nut Shot Scott wrote:

GoranZ wrote:In CC12 we changed the schedule of the war(without asking the reason) to accommodate S&M's leader to have a party trip with his friends(we learned the reason 10 days before the deadline). And after multiple delays(allegedly he messed up the dates but in fact he extended his vacation)

Holy sh!t! Someone wanted to take a vacation and it delayed your games by a week and a half? stop the presses. please. fck off with this - you dont get paid for this, it's a niche game on a site with a small group of players. if you can't shrug your shoulders and say "of course we can wait a few extra days while you enjoy life a bit" then what the fck is wrong with you? what an awful person you must be to deal with on a regular basis.

Listen here... What I do with my money is my job, not yours. What I do with my time is my job, not yours. And I defiantly don't like to hear an opinion from a worthless man like your self.

Nut Shot Scott wrote:

Nut Shot Scott wrote:Or goranz could drop the whole stupid continuation of the originally stupid point he thinks he is making and either play or dont play.

I play fair and by the rules. And please refrain your self from bait posts like "either play or dont play". Its is not up to you what I should do.

I know comprehension is difficult but... you have two options - play or don't play. It's not up to me, it's just the way things are. Like it or don't.

If you don't like to read something you can freely skip it. Do you understand this or you are that dumb so you need translation?