Conquer Club

The following ladder was approved by a vote of 24-2 (9Abstains) in the CLA on Nov 6th.

1. The ladder has both decay (aged out challenges) and depth (number of games in a challenge) weightings
Points calculation is (Win%-0.5)*DecayFactor*ChallengeSizeFactor
2. There is NO league data in here
3. In order to get an A rating, you need to have faced 2 A rated clans. If you performance against A clans is so poor, the committee (currently non-existent) can re-class a clan to a B rating.
4. Clans are sorted by class. A clans are sorted by Average A results. Clans in B are sorted first by A challenge clans, and then by the rest based on their B class ratings.
5. Ratings will be released on the 15th of each month, and become recurring as to create a rhythm.

Ladder:

show: Results Used

Are the level averages and points based on standard deviations or how are they calculated?

Is rank based on the sum of the averages?

Knight2254 wrote:Are the level averages and points based on standard deviations or how are they calculated?

Is rank based on the sum of the averages?

Averages are averages. Points are (Win%-0.5)*DecayFactor*ChallengeSizeFactor

Rank is based on the AVG columns as noted in the specific order above.

jpcloet wrote:The following ladder was approved by a vote of 24-2 (9Abstains) in the CLA on Nov 6th.

1. The ladder has both decay (aged out challenges) and depth (number of games in a challenge) weightings
Points calculation is (Win%-0.5)*DecayFactor*ChallengeSizeFactor
2. There is NO league data in here
3. In order to get an A rating, you need to have faced 2 A rated clans. If you performance against A clans is so poor, the committee (currently non-existent) can re-class a clan to a B rating.
4. Clans are sorted by class. A clans are sorted by Average A results. Clans in B are sorted first by A challenge only clans, and then by the rest based on their B class ratings.
5. Ratings will be released on the 15th of each month, and become recurring as to create a rhythm.

Not to be a pest, but what was the reasoning for having this A & B arbitrary designations? Does this take into account the records of A clans vs other A clans or is this based on the assumption that all A clans are equal? Is is accurate saying, based on this formula, that a 26-24 victory over thota is less valuable than a 27-23 victory over Generation 1: The clan (no offense to G1)? The RPI thing seemed pretty cool and at least I could figure it out, not sure why we switched to this.

Q. Why are O&H ranked lower than SoW and LotZ when they have better points and averages in all categories? This is what I can't fathom.

If it's correct then the info on the table isn't sufficient to determine where one stands on the ladder. Perhaps a formula could be written above the chart - something to help a clan decide who it should be challenging to help its progress.

Clans in B are sorted first by A challenge only clans, and then by the rest based on their B class ratings.

I think you are suggesting to sort via A results (where and A challenge exists) rather than A only challenges.

A clans are sorted by A Level AVG ?

++The Legion++ has a lower A Level AVG than IA & EMPIRE, but is ranked above them.

ahunda wrote:A clans are sorted by A Level AVG ?

++The Legion++ has a lower A Level AVG than IA & EMPIRE, but is ranked above them.

2nd to last column. I think you are looking at the totals, have to divide by number of challenges.

2nd to last column shows:

++The Legion++ 0.00
IA 0.02
EMPIRE 0.01

Ah dang. Try sorting 3 parts of a list. Must be due to the missing challenge I added back in. Will fix right away.

Fixed?

jpcloet wrote:Fixed?

Technically it's fixed -- but I still think it's broken beyond repair. Why don't we multiply all numbers on the chart by 100 at least. Do we really need every number to start with a "0." ?

I can do that, allows for 1 decimal to mean something. We did that with the ELO a while ago. No one said anything in the CLA.

I know that you not visit Foundry,but please use[BigImg][/BigImg]

qwert wrote:I know that you not visit Foundry,but please use[BigImg][/BigImg]

You kill me sometimes qwert. I believe my map is actually in the Foundry right now. If not, I'm confused. The images are suggested to be used with BigImg, however, I'll speak to the mods in this area again if you like, I'm sure this one will be fine on just IMG. Thanks Qwert.

I aprreciate all the work you do JP, but in all honety the ladders don't really mean anything and are pretty innacurate. But I understand that getting a perfect or even reasonably accurate ladder that is sustained in its accuracy is near impossible.

You kill me sometimes qwert. I believe my map is actually in the Foundry right now. If not, I'm confused. The images are suggested to be used with BigImg, however, I'll speak to the mods in this area again if you like, I'm sure this one will be fine on just IMG. Thanks Qwert.

the table is overlap with yours info(avatar ,date ,number of post,medals),but when you use bigimg,then all informacion is behind,and you can see all table clear.

My screen is fine, adjust your screen or get a new one.

I thought AoC was higher on the one we voted on? what caused us to go down?

GrimReaper. wrote:I thought AoC was higher on the one we voted on? what caused us to go down?

You don't have an A challenge in the books.

Still we were number 16 on the ladder with out the regulator challenge. How could we fall that much?

jpcloet wrote:

GrimReaper. wrote:I thought AoC was higher on the one we voted on? what caused us to go down?

You don't have an A challenge in the books.

Don't worry grim the ladders don't make sense, apparently losing 99-1 to an A rated clan is better than winning 99-1 against a B level clan

This ladder is better? I'm not smart enough to read it JP (or maybe just too lazy). Can we make it more user friendly? I can't find my calculator.

Potentially good though, I think?

Well, I think this sucks All A-clans will now get tons of invites from B-clans so that the B-clans can become A-clans as well. But since playing a B-clan gives little of nothing in value to an A-clan we will propably struggle to get the valuable points we need to climb the ladder at all.

We're now number 28(!) on the rank even though we have played and finished 4 challenges, and not lost any of them. We got a nice draw against Mythology who are close to being an A-ranked clan but we don't get anything out of it because they are just below the magic line. We could as well have played a bottom ranked clan or a clan who hasn't had a previous challenge to get a better win-percentage...

And also like earlier pointed out: It doesn't make sense to say that A-level points are more worth than B-level points, no matter how many B-level points you have got. It's almost like saying that a country participating in the olympics winning one gold medal have done a better job than a country who has won 20 silver medals...

Unless I'm totally missing something here, then I see one hell of a problem with this ladder.

All clans can only really climb if they play an A rated clan.

So those in the top 11 spots are going to be inundated with requests for a challenge, whilst those in the bottom half are going to have difficulty finding any interest.

I can't make any sense of the stats either. Why is it that Imperial Dragoons have played 2 B level matches and Mythology have played 5, yet neither of them have any B level points.

AoC now have no choice but to make our next challenge against an A rated clan, or we can't climb any higher than 2 places. As much as we'd like to be able to challenge those from position 12-33, there seems little point.

I'm guessing that we will have trouble getting a challenge against an A rated, because they'll all be playing each other and would gain nothing in playing us.