Clan Sitting Rules Discussion

[Donelladan]

Paul,
you are saying there is no rule a member must take his turn at a certain time, true. But there is a rule that says a player must take his own turn.

Clan members must be responsible for their own turns. Clan members must take all of their own turns unless they need to be away from the site for a period of time. Or an emergency arises.

I have read your answer which basically is :
"There is no stipulation in the rules which says you must take your turn by a certain time"

But following your logic:
-all your member can wait until there is less than 20 min on the clock for every turn.
-Then they fall under the "emergency sitting" because it is less than 2 hours on the clock.
-Then someone else sit their turn.
-Then 100% of your turns could be covered by a sitter, and you would still be telling us that you are following the rule.

All those points are according to the logic you are displaying. But this would be abusive sitting.

"but please show me specifically and clearly where there is no opportunity for interpretation, where it says in the Site Rules that you must take your turn by a certain time!

No I can't but you still have to use common sense logic in your interpretation of the rule. The rule doesn't say you can let the clock run below 2h and then having someone else taking all your turns.

Our Team battle strategy is admittedly something you do not understand, but I will tell you it does not matter how competent a player is to take his turn. ..there are circumstances & criteria which must be met before a player does take his turn, and these had not been met yet as far as nibotha was concerned. He chose to wait to take his turn and did not make it in time. This is permitted by the Site Rules.

I think this is the most interesting part in your answer, because even you are not being fully open about it, you are revealing why TOP has been breaking the rule ( unknowingly - but still breaking them).

So let me go ahead and fill the blank in your sentence, the criteria that TOP player must be met before a player does take his turn is either
1)everyone replied in the game chat and a decision on the best move have been reached
2)the team leader ( assuming you have one) has replied and has given instructions on how the turn have to be played.

I don't care if it's 1) or 2) or sometimes 1 and sometimes 2.
This rule that you have in your clan is NOT correct.

I'll tell you what is the correct rule you should from now on tell all your players. It is this one :

" you must discuss your turn with your teammate(s) and you must wait to give your teammate(s) the opportunity to reply to the proposition you made in the game chat UNLESS waiting may result in you missing the turn".

That's it. That is THE only correct way to interpret the clan sitting rule and that is how you must do it.
I don't care that it isn't explicitly covered in the rule, that is how you should do it, and that is how it is applied by everyone else. If you have been doing differently up to now, you have been doing it wrong.
That is the real rule. Everyone else have been trying to tell you the same. Maybe it's because you are new to the clan world that you misunderstood the rule. But it should have been cleared enough from the 1st line in the clan sitting rule that you quoted in your first post and that I already quoted. I'll do it again :

Clan members must be responsible for their own turns.

So you cannot decide to wait knowing you may miss because your partners haven't been typing stuff in chat.

One of the very common thing LHDD players write in the game chat is :
"I'll play now even though you didn't reply because I am not sure I can play my turn later "
And maybe there was 90% chance they would be there playing their turn later they still don't take the chance, because of the first rule of the "Clan sitting rule" you must play your own turn.





To come back to nibotha's case. nibotha was waiting for comment from his partner. This was not an emergency.

According to what I just explained you :

Well, this is bad you see, because nibotha said, clearly :
"I am available now" = he could play the turn
" but can't be given a specific 2 hour windo to take turns (I have a full time job)" = he know he may miss because of his job

so, he can play the turn, and he knows that if he wait he could miss. => he should played right away !

As I said Don....this is your opinion! You are entitled to have your opinion just like everyone else! But the Site Rules DO NOT SAY he must play his turn right away!

This isn't an opinion.
If you are 100% aware that by waiting you have a high chance of missing your turn ( or having someone else playing your turn) then you should play.
Let me present the case differently to you :
Let's say sitting is forbidden ( completely forbidden in any situation), then what do you prefer nibotha does :
1) wait with more than 50% chance of missing his turn (
2) play the turn right away without waiting instruction/advice/discussion from teammates



Last part, mainly irrelevant because of everything above but still :

The difference is between
1) nibotha playing before the discussion is over, and therefore deciding by himself,
and
2)nibotha playing after the discussion is over, therefore nibotha just following FreeFalling instruction.

1) and 2) aren't the same.
Or in this case 2) wasn't possible, which is why FreeFalling had to sit nibotha. Which is why the sitting was wrong, which is why it gave tactical advantage.

Nibotha's logic is correct in that if "following instructions left by someone on your team and that player executing these instructions himself" results in the same move being taken.....then there is no material difference in the result. However, he also understands that a player should take his own turn barring any extenuating circumstances (such as running low on time). Running low on time is exactly what occurred and the identical move was taken by the sitter. NO TACTICAL ADVANTAGE WAS GAINED!

The question is, is there a tactical advantage between those 2 situation ?

1) nibotha play without the instruction of his partners
2) nibotha play with the instruction of his partners

The question is NOT between those 2 situations :

1) nibotha played following the instruction of his partners
2) anyone else from TOP's clan played for nibotha, following the instruction of his partners

Because sitting shouldn't be occurring. ( yeah you read it correctly, sitting shouldn't be occurring).

[Keefie]

Don, you are, of course, 100% correct in your interpretation of the rules. Some folk will never accept that they are just plain wrong about things and this, unfortunately, does their clan a massive disservice.

[Vid_FISO]

Given that every time PaulatPeace posts he his giving more evidence of TOP deliberately attempting to manipulate the sitting rules, is there likely to be further repercussions for TOP as a result?

[Swimmerdude99]

I just find it humorous. A clan you deemed "not following honor, and offensive" ended up not keeping freefalling123 in their clan (can't remember if it was Empire AOC at that time or ACE). But Paul, while you are on your crusade to do right would take in a once already convicted cheater (or maybe rule-bender is a better word) into your clan. Then you defend him when he does something again. Isn't that so opposite to enlightenment and truth?

Given that every time PaulatPeace posts he his giving more evidence of TOP deliberately attempting to manipulate the sitting rules, is there likely to be further repercussions for TOP as a result?

I was about to comment on this as well. Its so odd to me that he would defend someone so toughly when its cheating/bending-rules. Doesn't that just point out how flawed his crusade to being truthful is? IF you have to make excuses for most of what you do, isn't that a hint you might be doing something wrong?

[rockfist]

There is no precedent for changing past results that are already finished. Finished games will not be replayed or forfeited.

[Vid_FISO]

There is no precedent for changing past results that are already finished. Finished games will not be replayed or forfeited.

Many professional bodies are capable of disqualifying those found to be breaking the rules long after the event, I'm sure that CC could if suitably motivated to as well.

[rockfist]

It would be setting a new precedent if they did that. I can't think of a single case where they've done it in the past and there were cases where the rules clearly were violated (things that can't be subject to interpretation).

[riskllama]

oh goodie!!!

[king achilles]

Hey Don,

As I said, I respect you. You are sincere and I believe we just see things differently. I am sincere also Don...and I will make this my last post here. We can hopefully agree to disagree.

Most of the others here seem to relish the opportunity to cause trouble and discord. Some are trolls and some are just narrow minded or misguided. Players like Josko I have just chosen to foe, as that is the only way I can avoid being subjected to their mean spirited stupidity! Keep on talking crap! I just refuse to listen to it any more!

So Don, here are my final comments:

Paul,
you are saying there is no rule a member must take his turn at a certain time, true. But there is a rule that says a player must take his own turn.

Clan members must be responsible for their own turns. Clan members must take all of their own turns unless they need to be away from the site for a period of time. Or an emergency arises.

Yes Don...I agree....but you have quoted the 2 examples where exceptions are made!

I have read your answer which basically is :
"There is no stipulation in the rules which says you must take your turn by a certain time"

But following your logic:
-all your member can wait until there is less than 20 min on the clock for every turn.
-Then they fall under the "emergency sitting" because it is less than 2 hours on the clock.
-Then someone else sit their turn.
-Then 100% of your turns could be covered by a sitter, and you would still be telling us that you are following the rule.

All those points are according to the logic you are displaying. But this would be abusive sitting.

If you chose to apply the logic that way...that would be your choice and yes, you would be guilty of abuse. TOP has not chosen to do this. We have taken turns for our members ONLY when the 2 exceptions you quoted earlier came into play. We did not plan this as a strategy nor did we decide that our best players would somehow take all the turns for everyone else in our clan. Life happens to all of us...and when it happens to our players and they are in danger of missing their turn....We Will sit in for them if we can. This is what a family does for each other...and we are a tight family who will have each other's backs!

"but please show me specifically and clearly where there is no opportunity for interpretation, where it says in the Site Rules that you must take your turn by a certain time!

No I can't but you still have to use common sense logic in your interpretation of the rule. The rule doesn't say you can let the clock run below 2h and then having someone else taking all your turns.

An this is not what we did Don! We did not "LET" the clock run down. It ran down on it's own. We did not plan a strategy or tactic to do this deliberately, nor will we ever! Please do not make assumptions you cannot verify!

Our Team battle strategy is admittedly something you do not understand, but I will tell you it does not matter how competent a player is to take his turn. ..there are circumstances & criteria which must be met before a player does take his turn, and these had not been met yet as far as nibotha was concerned. He chose to wait to take his turn and did not make it in time. This is permitted by the Site Rules.

I think this is the most interesting part in your answer, because even you are not being fully open about it, you are revealing why TOP has been breaking the rule ( unknowingly - but still breaking them).

So let me go ahead and fill the blank in your sentence, the criteria that TOP player must be met before a player does take his turn is either
1)everyone replied in the game chat and a decision on the best move have been reached
2)the team leader ( assuming you have one) has replied and has given instructions on how the turn have to be played.

I don't care if it's 1) or 2) or sometimes 1 and sometimes 2.
This rule that you have in your clan is NOT correct.

I'll tell you what is the correct rule you should from now on tell all your players. It is this one :

" you must discuss your turn with your teammate(s) and you must wait to give your teammate(s) the opportunity to reply to the proposition you made in the game chat UNLESS waiting may result in you missing the turn".

You do not know our battle strategy Don...speculate all you wish! You may choose to have your players take their turns at any time you wish. That is up to your clan. We will follow our battle strategy Don...and we will win with it! We will not break the rules...but we will not be confined to anyone else's idea of what they think we should do. I will not tell your clan what to do...extend the same courtesy to us!

That's it. That is THE only correct way to interpret the clan sitting rule and that is how you must do it.

NO Don....that is how you must do it! For The Omega Pantheon the better correct way!

I don't care that it isn't explicitly covered in the rule, that is how you should do it, and that is how it is applied by everyone else. If you have been doing differently up to now, you have been doing it wrong.

No it is not! You are adding your interpretation to a rule that is not contained in it!!! You cannot just make up the rules according to your personal interpretation. Yes Don...It must be "explicitly covered in the rule"....or the rule is vague and unclear. There is nothing unclear about the Site Sitting Rules! You must take your turn if you can....but if something comes up and you can't...someone can take it for you!

That is the real rule. Everyone else have been trying to tell you the same. Maybe it's because you are new to the clan world that you misunderstood the rule. But it should have been cleared enough from the 1st line in the clan sitting rule that you quoted in your first post and that I already quoted. I'll do it again :

Clan members must be responsible for their own turns.

So you cannot decide to wait knowing you may miss because your partners haven't been typing stuff in chat.

NOWHERE do the Site Sitting Rules say when you must take your turn as you are implying. They do not say you must take it at 23 hrs or 16 hrs or 8 hrs or 2 hrs!!! You have the freedom to decide for yourself when you take your turn! And if something comes up and you can't.......well .......that is the exact reason a sitter is permitted!

One of the very common thing LHDD players write in the game chat is :
"I'll play now even though you didn't reply because I am not sure I can play my turn later "
And maybe there was 90% chance they would be there playing their turn later they still don't take the chance, because of the first rule of the "Clan sitting rule" you must play your own turn.





To come back to nibotha's case. nibotha was waiting for comment from his partner. This was not an emergency.

No....but when 32 minutes were left on the clock....and his turn was in danger of being missed...IT WAS AN EMERGENCY!

According to what I just explained you :

Well, this is bad you see, because nibotha said, clearly :
"I am available now" = he could play the turn
" but can't be given a specific 2 hour windo to take turns (I have a full time job)" = he know he may miss because of his job

so, he can play the turn, and he knows that if he wait he could miss. => he should played right away !

As I said Don....this is your opinion! You are entitled to have your opinion just like everyone else! But the Site Rules DO NOT SAY he must play his turn right away!

This isn't an opinion.
If you are 100% aware that by waiting you have a high chance of missing your turn ( or having someone else playing your turn) then you should play.
Let me present the case differently to you :
Let's say sitting is forbidden ( completely forbidden in any situation), then what do you prefer nibotha does :
1) wait with more than 50% chance of missing his turn (
2) play the turn right away without waiting instruction/advice/discussion from teammates



Last part, mainly irrelevant because of everything above but still :

The difference is between
1) nibotha playing before the discussion is over, and therefore deciding by himself,
and
2)nibotha playing after the discussion is over, therefore nibotha just following FreeFalling instruction.

1) and 2) aren't the same.
Or in this case 2) wasn't possible, which is why FreeFalling had to sit nibotha. Which is why the sitting was wrong, which is why it gave tactical advantage.

Your reasoning and logic here is circular Don! It is not complicated! Nibotha intended to take his own turn! Time ran down and he was in danger of missing. Another player understanding it qualified as an Emergency Sitting situation took the turn for him! This is exactly what happened....and thiis is why there was no sitting abuse! Period!

Nibotha's logic is correct in that if "following instructions left by someone on your team and that player executing these instructions himself" results in the same move being taken.....then there is no material difference in the result. However, he also understands that a player should take his own turn barring any extenuating circumstances (such as running low on time). Running low on time is exactly what occurred and the identical move was taken by the sitter. NO TACTICAL ADVANTAGE WAS GAINED!

The question is, is there a tactical advantage between those 2 situation ?

1) nibotha play without the instruction of his partners
2) nibotha play with the instruction of his partners

The question is NOT between those 2 situations :

1) nibotha played following the instruction of his partners
2) anyone else from TOP's clan played for nibotha, following the instruction of his partners

Because sitting shouldn't be occurring. ( yeah you read it correctly, sitting shouldn't be occurring).

According to your interpretation of the rules Don! Not according to what the rules actually say!

Paul

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by swimmerdude99 on Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:27 pm

I just find it humorous. A clan you deemed "not following honor, and offensive" ended up not keeping freefalling123 in their clan (can't remember if it was Empire AOC at that time or ACE). But Paul, while you are on your crusade to do right would take in a once already convicted cheater (or maybe rule-bender is a better word) into your clan. Then you defend him when he does something again. Isn't that so opposite to enlightenment and truth?

Vid_FISO wrote:
Given that every time PaulatPeace posts he his giving more evidence of TOP deliberately attempting to manipulate the sitting rules, is there likely to be further repercussions for TOP as a result?

I was about to comment on this as well. Its so odd to me that he would defend someone so toughly when its cheating/bending-rules. Doesn't that just point out how flawed his crusade to being truthful is? IF you have to make excuses for most of what you do, isn't that a hint you might be doing something wrong?

I am disappointed in you!

For someone who calls himself a Christian....you find it "humorous" to cast stones? I guess you are one of the individuals Jesus was referring to as "He who is without sin". Free has recognized his past mistake and has not repeated it. He has been found guilty of such at the provocation of the 'pure as the driven snow' Josko....but he is not guilty of what he has been accused of.

It isn't an "excuse" ....if it is the TRUTH! I am sorry none of the clans you were in didn't work out. I am sorry I exposed someone in your clan who was actually guilty of dishonorable actions. I am also sorry you have become such a bitter young man. I once called you a friend. I am also sorry that friendship has ended. As I did before...I continue to wish you well.

Paul

[Donelladan]

You do not know our battle strategy Don...speculate all you wish! You may choose to have your players take their turns at any time you wish. That is up to your clan. We will follow our battle strategy Don...and we will win with it! We will not break the rules...but we will not be confined to anyone else's idea of what they think we should do. I will not tell your clan what to do...extend the same courtesy to us!

Doh.. dude, you are going to keep breaking the rule.

You are wrong when you think I am giving you my opinion about the sitting rule. It isn't an opinion, I have said it in my post. This was how you should interpret the rule.

You cannot decide that TOP has the right to interpret the sitting rule in its own fashion.
Maybe you think I am giving you my opinion about the sitting rule because I am not a clan director. But if you check below my post Keefie just said that I was 100% right ( and he is a clan director).

I am not saying, anywhere, that TOP was intentionally breaking the rule. I have actually written that you were unknowingly breaking the rule. But well this is my opinion based on your answers, other believe you were intentionally breaking the rule, anyway that was the only thing in my previous post that was an opinion.

I do not know how to explain it to you again, but you are wrong. "Officials" told you that you are wrong. Your clan have been punished because you are wrong. But yet you keep thinking you are right.
I understand why you think you were right, this is because the clan sitting rule state that you can cover someone in case there is an emergency, and emergency is understood as the clock being below 2 hours.

But, listen to me, if you ask all your clan member to always wait for everyone to weight in to play their turn, it is obvious people in your clan are going to have to wait very often, and therefore ending up being sitted. And this is not right because then you are ending up having way more sitting than the other, but only because you are forcing your member to wait longer than the other clans to play their turns.

Of course, if all your clan members are always able to play their own turn, and to wait for their partner to give advice/instruction in the game chat it is better.
My clan like many other probably is also trying to make it that way.
But waiting for your partner to give advice/instruction should not be at the cost of you ending up in a risk of missing your turn.
If you decide not to listen to what I am telling you now, then you are going to be punished again for the same offence.


Everyone else in this topic is telling you the same thing.
Now it is of course possible to be the only one to be right, and everyone else is wrong.
Sure I can be wrong in my interpretation of the rule and you could be right.
But the persons that are making the rule also told you that you are wrong... so you are.

[niMic]

I am disappointed in you Mod Edit!

For someone who calls himself a Christian....you find it "humorous" to cast stones? I guess you are one of the individuals Jesus was referring to as "He who is without sin".

Could you possibly be any more full of yourself?

You've had the rules explained to you by more than a few different people, some of whom are the actual, literal authorities in the matter. And for some reason, you've decided that the best way of getting your point across is to condescendingly belittle whomever you disagree with.

[Keefie]

As we're getting all religous, I though that these are very pertinent.

Hebrews 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Proverbs 13:1 A wise son hears his father’s instruction, but a scoffer does not listen to rebuke

Proverbs 19:20 Listen to advice and accept instruction, that you may gain wisdom in the future

[Swimmerdude99]

Paul, I'm not bitter at all. I am sorry that you have decided to end our friendship. You were much different in years past. It's sad to see the person you have become. You used to be understanding and kind. Now you are self centered and live to point out others faults instead of dealing with your own or following truth you attempt to make up truth. Your words in your post to me were so hypocritical. You are doing exactly what you claim of me yet you do not see it. Your posts are constantly passive aggressive and always come from a "holier than thou" mindset. I'm sorry that our friendship has ended?? Didn't know that disagreement defined when friendships were. If my friendship with my wife ended whenever we disagreed I don't think it would be a very long lasting friendship or marriage. You have certainly become someone else and hope the best for you bud. When you attempted to tear out clan apart by sending us each individual private messages saying different things, that wasn't exposing someone, it was your first step to pushing people away. And I'm sad that has continued. You are constantly trying to divide, not to unite.

If you really want to get religious (which was a totally out of the blue personal attack with no correlation to discussion) I suggest you also consider the idea of casting stones when you read over your future drafts. Good luck to ya bud.

[xroads]

If I were a clan that had recently lost to top, I would be.looking over those games carefully and possibly asking for replays if abuses are shown.

[riskllama]

If I were a clan that had recently lost to top, I would be.looking over those games carefully and possibly asking for replays if abuses are shown.

[Lex Usi]

Paul has been banned from the forum for a week. The admins have taken away his ability to defend himself and our clan for all the accusations from the hyenas that would love nothing more than to scavenge on our corpses. The amount of crap Paul has had to endure with on this site lately is so huge that any lesser man would've called it quits already. But not Paul because he is a man of principle and will defend what he believes in. He believes in honor and integrity and the truth. He doesn't quit just because he gets bullied by other members on this site. He doesn't quit even when he gets bullied by the clan department representatives. And yes, I will never get my head around just how wrong was the treatment extended to Paul by Lindax in Clan League 7 and how that was backed up by other clan directors and the admins.

I joined TOP because it was founded on the principles that I believe in and it has lived by those principles until this moment and continues to do so. TOP does everything by the book, we commit no violations of any kind on purpose and if we unintentionally and undisputedly do so we apologize, learn from our mistake and welcome any punishment deemed appropriate. We refrain ourselves from foul language on this site and have managed to do that quite well despite of all the trash talk by others of us and unjustified punishments we have received. Yes there was one incident in which josko.ri received some foul language remarks from a guy which he referred to as the "lesser player" about 20 times in the forum chat. We are sorry for that and try our very best not to do that again. We try to be courteous and treat everybody with respect. And above all we do not cheat in any way.

There is so much effort within our clan to do everything by the book. For example I believe we were the only clan in CL 7 which posted all the games and filled them on time. Even the clan sitting rules which are the main issue now, were posted in our own forum and everyone were made to read them. I read them as well. I wonder what is the point of writing clan sitting rules if they are not valid in clan war games? Anyhow, if we can't trust the actual wording in the rules, then what should we do?

TOP has always cared more about maintaining honor and integrity in everything that we do than it does about winning or being the number one clan. I do understand that now when we are the number 1 clan everybody wants nothing more than to beat us. That is fine but it should be done playing by the rules on the battle field and not in the cabinets. Paul is currently the number 1 individual player on this entire site. Banning him from many of our clan activities for unjustified reasons is an outrage and it does affect our operation but maybe that is the whole purpose?

I understand that everybody can make mistakes. Even the volunteer workers on this site can make them. As well as the admins. But when a mistake is made it should be corrected and if it can't be corrected then an apology is appropriate. There is perhaps one thing that has been forgotten by the clan reps and the site admins. I am a paying customer. In fact a frequent, returning paying customer. As such I (nor the group of paying customers called TOP) can't be treated any which way. I would in fact be willing to pay a much higher fee for the membership if that would enable the site to function better and becoming more just towards its members. If there were more members like me that would be willing to pay more, let's say a 1000 members each paying 50 usd more per year, that would enable the site to hire an non-biased employee to oversee the clan department. As it is currently the volunteer workers can do whatever they like with no consequences.

[Donelladan]

@Lex Usi after everything that has been said, I do hope that you understand why your clan has been breaking the sitting rule, even if it was unintentionally.
For the rest of your post, I don't feel concerned.

[Kexor]

TOP does everything by the book, we commit no violations of any kind on purpose and if we unintentionally and undisputedly do so we apologize, learn from our mistake and welcome any punishment deemed appropriate.

TOP has always cared more about maintaining honor and integrity in everything that we do than it does about winning or being the number one clan. I do understand that now when we are the number 1 clan everybody wants nothing more than to beat us. That is fine but it should be done playing by the rules on the battle field and not in the cabinets.

I understand that everybody can make mistakes. Even the volunteer workers on this site can make them. As well as the admins. But when a mistake is made it should be corrected and if it can't be corrected then an apology is appropriate.

We have clan directors and clan representatives from #2 to #5 ranked clans in this thread all agreeing in how we understand the clan sitting rule. Maybe, if you are really all about honor and integrity, you could say that the rule wasn't clear but you will play by it in the future.

I have nothing against you guys. And this isn't really some conspiracy against TOP. It is how we hold each other to a fair standard. You can be sure that S&M will be watching our games just as closely when we play our match. I have been involved several times when rule breaking was suspected. Most of the times this is resolved via PM between clan contacts and one side says 'oops, our bad.' or they explain and the other side says 'oops, you're right. just looked suspicious so we wanted to check.' or you ask Lindax for help when you don't know what is correct or even when both agree and aren't sure how best to proceed (game forfeit / remake...). This isn't that rare and not a big deal, mistakes happen. And I'm telling you this so you'll maybe consider that not everyone is out to crusade against you. But as the number one ranked clan you will be held to equal standards.

I am super happy that TOP brings new and tough competition to the field. I just wish the field to be equal when we're all fighting each other on it.

[Lord Arioch]

In my world the rules are pretty clear.

If i were to wonder or disagree with them i would first ask Lindax or some of his henchmens ( ) for clarification of my interpretation of said rule ... then obey it. If i didnt agree i would argue. If i were proven wrong i would say oooopss my bad kudos for pointing it out.

The rules are clear so why argue with them?

If u find them to be wrong, try to change them.

otherwise game on!

[Lex Usi]

Maybe, if you are really all about honor and integrity, you could say that the rule wasn't clear but you will play by it in the future.

Indeed. We have learned from this and we now play by how Ice Pack has kindly educated our whole clan via PM about "sitting". However I still hope that rules could be rewritten in oder to avoid such mishaps in the future.

I have been involved several times when rule breaking was suspected. Most of the times this is resolved via PM between clan contacts and one side says 'oops, our bad.' or they explain and the other side says 'oops, you're right. just looked suspicious so we wanted to check.'

I believe that this is a standard procedure that our clan leaders follow.

or you ask Lindax for help when you don't know what is correct or even when both agree and aren't sure how best to proceed (game forfeit / remake...).

Paul tried this and the end result was a 1 year ban from being our clan contact.

I am super happy that TOP brings new and tough competition to the field. I just wish the field to be equal when we're all fighting each other on it.

That is what we want as well. Looking forward to meet TOFU on the field.

[Kexor]

Maybe, if you are really all about honor and integrity, you could say that the rule wasn't clear but you will play by it in the future.

Indeed. We have learned from this and we now play by how Ice Pack has kindly educated our whole clan via PM about "sitting". However I still hope that rules could be rewritten in oder to avoid such mishaps in the future.

Good to hear. And I agree that the rules could be better written and all in one place.

[Lindax]

or you ask Lindax for help when you don't know what is correct or even when both agree and aren't sure how best to proceed (game forfeit / remake...).

Paul tried this and the end result was a 1 year ban from being our clan contact.

For the record: This is NOT true. His 1 year ban was NOT the result of Paul asking me for help. Nobody would ever be banned or otherwise punished for asking for help.

Lx

[iAmCaffeine]

I like Lex. He uses default font.

[IcePack]

Maybe, if you are really all about honor and integrity, you could say that the rule wasn't clear but you will play by it in the future.

Indeed. We have learned from this and we now play by how Ice Pack has kindly educated our whole clan via PM about "sitting". However I still hope that rules could be rewritten in oder to avoid such mishaps in the future.

Good to hear. And I agree that the rules could be better written and all in one place.

I'll commit our Dept to reviewing & updating by the next Platoon Report. Keefie has volunteered to take this project on for the team so we can get it completed. That way something positive can come out of it, and make it more clear for all members new & old without having to do research etc and try to encompass what the site rules cover in our own thread so we have both sets in one place, instead of just the clan side.

[macken]

As I have said on other occasions, the rules have to:

1.- Be clear
2.- Apply them to all, equally.

If they are not clear, they create problems and uncertainty, doubts, injustices, etc.
Everything that comes behind a not clear rule, has no solid foundation, including punishment.

The rule of emergency sitter is not clear.
The term "recently" used in this rule is not clear. ("The person in question must not have been online recently taking their own turns")

Hundreds of turns are covered, but these rules are not applied correctly to all. Neither do punishments. Then? What happend here? How can apply one rule that are not clear? How can punish for do something that are not clear regulated? What happens to the hundreds of turns that are being covered and not behaved in the same way with each one?

It is necessary to clarify the terms "recently". It is necessary to clarify emergency sitter rules. While this is not done, competition is being adulterated with unequal enforcement and unfair punishment.

These endless and endless threads not help, most members will not read. And the rule remain not clear.

Until recently it was difficult to know where those rules are. Now, 4 days ago a post has been placed in a preferred place, only 4 days ago, but the rule still has the gaps I have commented. While all this has happened before without clear rules.

On a particular level I strongly disagree with what is being done here with all this in recent times. And therefore I will not renew my account. I will also stop participating in the forums and I will not read them. Now somebody will come out and send me to hell or trash, as usual. Bye